3rd Class

bobojim
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So Matthes is complaining about the 250 class not being second fiddle enough - i.e not a support class, and too much a class of its own.
Meanwhile Kyle Chisholm has suggested:
" If they want a stepping stone class or class for kids moving up create a support class that qualifies during the day and races at intermission (giving fans more racing). "

Would a third class be a good thing??
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Radical
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12/15/2016 12:37am Edited Date/Time 12/15/2016 12:38am
125 class of course!
And yes, qualify during the day so the timing works for TV.
Turbojez
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12/15/2016 3:09am
I think it would be really cool. Stock 250f's and 250 2-strokes eligible, as I'm afraid you'd case most of the jumps on a 125.
12/15/2016 3:19am
Turbojez wrote:
I think it would be really cool. Stock 250f's and 250 2-strokes eligible, as I'm afraid you'd case most of the jumps on a 125.
Just like the old days - nothing wrong with jumps that not all bikes can make.
bobojim
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12/15/2016 4:46am
Turbojez wrote:
I think it would be really cool. Stock 250f's and 250 2-strokes eligible, as I'm afraid you'd case most of the jumps on a 125.
Just like the old days - nothing wrong with jumps that not all bikes can make.
Agree. Can make the racing better too
But the stock idea has some merit - makes it cheaper and more about the rider.

The Shop

DFWracefan
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12/15/2016 5:03am
Turbojez wrote:
I think it would be really cool. Stock 250f's and 250 2-strokes eligible, as I'm afraid you'd case most of the jumps on a 125.
Do you watch the monster cup racing? Even the kids on the small bikes have no issues putting on a good (no make that a GREAT) show!
Turbojez
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12/15/2016 5:43am
DFWracefan wrote:
Do you watch the monster cup racing? Even the kids on the small bikes have no issues putting on a good (no make that a GREAT)...
Do you watch the monster cup racing? Even the kids on the small bikes have no issues putting on a good (no make that a GREAT) show!
Yes, I have seen it but my idea was STOCK 250's. Those modded supermini bikes are probably faster than a stock 250f Smile
57F1VE
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12/15/2016 5:44am
Would also make sense if they plan to have more rounds, and with Supercross becoming more emphasized for careers and sponsors.... Maybe have a few different regional series, if you win you get a sx credit for your pro license. Just like you should get if you win am all star at monster cup. No need to put forkner n these guys in the ring of arenacross. They win monster cup or regional entry series in sx, they prove they can ride it
Turbojez
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12/15/2016 5:48am
Turbojez wrote:
I think it would be really cool. Stock 250f's and 250 2-strokes eligible, as I'm afraid you'd case most of the jumps on a 125.
Just like the old days - nothing wrong with jumps that not all bikes can make.
bobojim wrote:
Agree. Can make the racing better too
But the stock idea has some merit - makes it cheaper and more about the rider.
You are right, but 125's couldn't run with stock 250f's. And keeping 4 strokes out of this class wouldn't make any sense for the manufacturers, therefore in my imagination it would be a matter of 250F vs. something (something being 250 2 stroke, as 125 puts you at a disadvantage) or 250F's alone.
early
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12/15/2016 6:04am
Not to shit on this parade but i really dont see this happening at all. For one the saturday schedule is pretty full. There isnt that much of an intermission during the night show to hold another main and there is track work being done during those intermissions (i know theres the ktm thing but that is not as long as a real race). If you were to add more races to the night show i would like to see a 2 lap dash between the 2 winners of the heat races for maybe 5 championship points, give more incentive to win heats and extra tight gate drops with the fastest guys.
stremme12
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12/15/2016 6:23am
I thought this what the road to supercross was for?
57F1VE
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12/15/2016 6:48am
Road to Supercross also turns out to be a landing spot for established sx guys without rides
early
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12/15/2016 7:10am
57F1VE wrote:
Road to Supercross also turns out to be a landing spot for established sx guys without rides
AX needs better exposure to be a viable landing spot for guys not getting rides whether they are up and comers or sx vets.
57F1VE
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12/15/2016 7:25am
Blose, faith, lamay, regal, Reynard, bowers, possibly weimer..... All ended up there. Must be viable, and also kind of conflicting with the stepping stone process. Third class would be great. They could fit it in. Possibly some qualifying on Friday, especially with a huge rider count so there's not an a session, b session, then 2 or 3 sessions of bad crashes
Cygnus
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12/15/2016 7:44am Edited Date/Time 12/15/2016 7:45am
No, that's what arenacross is for. I do think the 250 class should be all rounds now as the east west thing is outdated. SX should only be the best of the best on the track. Would be to many kids getting hurt with a entry level class.
Phillip_Lamb
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12/15/2016 8:26am
I've been arguing the need to add a 3rd class to the SX and MX series for some time

PROS:
The class could be 125s, these are cheap for anyone to field and teams in this class could do it on a small budget

125s are CHEAP so privateers who struggle to pay for a 250 or 450 have a class they can afford to race

125s are easier to handle, for riders who need development, a bike with less power and weight will allow them to focus on building skill and technique

the 125 class 'could' be a PRO-AM class, thus allowing a more realistic stepping stone VS AX, for aspiring amateurs

the 125 class would be an instant crowd favorite, and lets be honest, a much more entertaining sight than KTM 50's

there is plenty of time in the day to race them. They dont need the TV time. Maybe show highlights on tv


Phillip_Lamb
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12/15/2016 8:46am
Cygnus wrote:
No, that's what arenacross is for. I do think the 250 class should be all rounds now as the east west thing is outdated. SX should...
No, that's what arenacross is for. I do think the 250 class should be all rounds now as the east west thing is outdated. SX should only be the best of the best on the track. Would be to many kids getting hurt with a entry level class.
please explain the logic that kids would get hurt in a third class?

kids at 14 yrs old are already as fast as most pros

I have never seen a 16 yr old, who turned pro, who wasnt ready. most people dont move up till they feel they are competitive.

AGE has nothing to do with ability this is why KROC and Herlings were winning GPs at 15 and John Dowd won a West title at 32 and took a podium at age 45.


Right now the only "stepping stone" is AX which is loosely similiar to SX and ive seen PLENTY of riders eat shit hard. In fact I would argue that AX is sketchier than SX with its tighter confines alone.

and while the MEC maybe a detuned SX track, those kids on SUPERMINI'S and the All Star class have the skill to ride a SX track
Cygnus
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12/15/2016 8:56am Edited Date/Time 12/15/2016 8:59am
Cygnus wrote:
No, that's what arenacross is for. I do think the 250 class should be all rounds now as the east west thing is outdated. SX should...
No, that's what arenacross is for. I do think the 250 class should be all rounds now as the east west thing is outdated. SX should only be the best of the best on the track. Would be to many kids getting hurt with a entry level class.
please explain the logic that kids would get hurt in a third class? kids at 14 yrs old are already as fast as most pros I...
please explain the logic that kids would get hurt in a third class?

kids at 14 yrs old are already as fast as most pros

I have never seen a 16 yr old, who turned pro, who wasnt ready. most people dont move up till they feel they are competitive.

AGE has nothing to do with ability this is why KROC and Herlings were winning GPs at 15 and John Dowd won a West title at 32 and took a podium at age 45.


Right now the only "stepping stone" is AX which is loosely similiar to SX and ive seen PLENTY of riders eat shit hard. In fact I would argue that AX is sketchier than SX with its tighter confines alone.

and while the MEC maybe a detuned SX track, those kids on SUPERMINI'S and the All Star class have the skill to ride a SX track
Just the way that SX is. It's suppose to be a show of the best riders and not side shows. They have stopped all that stupid sumo side shows and this is how I see the sport moving. I just see the tracks getting tougher with the speed they are running. I don't want to see any kids at SX. 16 and in the 250 class is where they belong. The KTM thing is different cause those kids are told no jumping at the riders meeting.

Edit: I would love to see a 125 2 stroke class as support maybe just one Moto at the outdoor nationals. That would be great.
kkawboy14
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12/15/2016 8:58am
bobojim wrote:
So Matthes is complaining about the 250 class not being second fiddle enough - i.e not a support class, and too much a class of its...
So Matthes is complaining about the 250 class not being second fiddle enough - i.e not a support class, and too much a class of its own.
Meanwhile Kyle Chisholm has suggested:
" If they want a stepping stone class or class for kids moving up create a support class that qualifies during the day and races at intermission (giving fans more racing). "

Would a third class be a good thing??
Yes
MxRewind
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12/15/2016 9:02am
Or maybe they should have more events like "motofest" where the arenacross track is actually the shorten version of the SX track. At the same time in my opinion (as a rider who wants to do AX to get his pro sx card) they need to make a broader AX schedule. Riders like me in MA have 0 ams oil arenacross events near us anymore after they got rid of Worcester, and Allentown PA was it? yet we are expected to travel to 3-6 minimum rounds farther away while some regions get 2-3 within good distance.
Acidreamer
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12/15/2016 9:07am
Do away with arenacross and make that the 3rd class
early
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12/15/2016 9:27am
57F1VE wrote:
Blose, faith, lamay, regal, Reynard, bowers, possibly weimer..... All ended up there. Must be viable, and also kind of conflicting with the stepping stone process. Third...
Blose, faith, lamay, regal, Reynard, bowers, possibly weimer..... All ended up there. Must be viable, and also kind of conflicting with the stepping stone process. Third class would be great. They could fit it in. Possibly some qualifying on Friday, especially with a huge rider count so there's not an a session, b session, then 2 or 3 sessions of bad crashes
Right now guys would rather wait for a fill in ride than go to AX. AX could be healthier.
hillbilly
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12/15/2016 9:29am
SX is a show, attention span of the target group is shorter than the show now..
huck
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12/15/2016 9:34am
Do away with the KTM jr race and replace it something that is worth watching.

Homey55
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12/15/2016 10:01am
I agree with Chizz and suggested the same thing in the last thread. The class should not have stock bikes and the rules for the bikes should not change for safety sake. I think, to add to it a little more, you should be required to win 3-5 races before being moved up to the 250SX class and it should not be a "Championship" series.
12/15/2016 12:26pm
lol, so many wild ideas, they can just copy emx125, everyone would be happy with that.
stremme12
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12/15/2016 12:45pm Edited Date/Time 12/15/2016 12:45pm
I think it would be tough to run another class. If you've ever been to a supercross you'll see that every second during intermission is spent prepping the track. It would make it more difficult for live races to be broadcasted.
stremme12
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12/15/2016 12:51pm
Homey55 wrote:
I agree with Chizz and suggested the same thing in the last thread. The class should not have stock bikes and the rules for the bikes...
I agree with Chizz and suggested the same thing in the last thread. The class should not have stock bikes and the rules for the bikes should not change for safety sake. I think, to add to it a little more, you should be required to win 3-5 races before being moved up to the 250SX class and it should not be a "Championship" series.
You can't decide if someone moves up with race wins. You need to do it with points. Strictly basing it off race wins would never work. You can have one super fast kid one year and if he wins everh race you literally only have 1 kid move up that year. Definitely need to base it off point's.
bobojim
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12/15/2016 12:59pm
I've been arguing the need to add a 3rd class to the SX and MX series for some time PROS: The class could be 125s, these...
I've been arguing the need to add a 3rd class to the SX and MX series for some time

PROS:
The class could be 125s, these are cheap for anyone to field and teams in this class could do it on a small budget

125s are CHEAP so privateers who struggle to pay for a 250 or 450 have a class they can afford to race

125s are easier to handle, for riders who need development, a bike with less power and weight will allow them to focus on building skill and technique

the 125 class 'could' be a PRO-AM class, thus allowing a more realistic stepping stone VS AX, for aspiring amateurs

the 125 class would be an instant crowd favorite, and lets be honest, a much more entertaining sight than KTM 50's

there is plenty of time in the day to race them. They dont need the TV time. Maybe show highlights on tv


The problem with the 125's is that the power is down, so people with cash and/or support are in a better place to get engine work done, and then the advantage they get over the rest of the pack is greater. Maybe stock 125's?
Phillip_Lamb
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12/15/2016 3:59pm
stock engines would be too hard to regulate. Look at how many guys have admitted to running big bore engines already.
power isnt a problem for these bikes, go watch races from 2003, guys on 125s are jumping triples and doing rhythm sections. PLUS a modded 125 engine can be had for under $1000.


This class would essentially replace the 250f's in the east west series and the 250s would bump up to a full national series. and in this case, rules such as: bumping riders up by way of pointing out or winning a title would make more sense

another format would be to have a 250 east/west and a national series. both with 250f's. the east west stays intact with existing rules but a national series is added.

For teams with multiple riders they would limited to the amount of regional racers, thus allowing them to keep just as many riders on a team but limiting their power in the development class.




Example:

125 (250f's) Supercross West/East regional series

250 Supercross National series

450 supercross National series


NV825
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12/15/2016 4:05pm
Big fan of adding a 3rd class to be the true stepping stone class with either a 125 2-stroke class, or 250f's but similar to the stock class at LL.

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