2015 crf450r Honda frame "goodwill" :(

mmmbrap41
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mmmbrap41
. I bought the bike from a dealership in pa where I live. January 15, we had snow on the ground so I couldn't ride it for two months. I put a hour meter on the bike before I even started it. I change the oil ever 2 hours of riding engine and trans. Air filter every ride. 75 hours total on the bike. Susp. Service twice, grease everything three times

HOW DOES A FRAME CRACK IN THE MIDDLE OF A FACTORY WELD, THAT IS DONE BY ROBOTICS?????????? IM 157LBS B RIDER!!!!!!!!!! RIGHT ASIDE OF WHERE THE HEADER PIPE BOLTS TO THE MOTOR. THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE WELD DOESNT EVEN LOOK LIKE IT PENETRATED. JUST A BUNCH OF BUILD UP. So I took it to the dealership where I bought it. They wouldn't let me take my bike back home. Like I want to ride a bike with a cracked frame.... so whatever I left it there. They got Honda to good will the frame but the only deal was I had to pay the labor. "$763.20" to switch my frame around. How does it cost that much? Why should I have to pay for what I already paid for? This is there manufacturing mistake. So shouldthey should cover the labor as well? Someone help 763 to switch a frame is ridiculous
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loftyair
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loftyair 10/11/2016 6:49pm
10/11/2016 6:49pm
Tell them to 'hire' you for a half day while you work on your own bike and get paid!
Moens_Andy 10/11/2016 6:52pm
10/11/2016 6:52pm
If it was my bike i would never ever agree upon that, its Honda's mistake and they need to fix it.
If they agreed on sending you a frame it's not out of goodwill its part of there policy.
In the worst case scenario i would just get the bike and the new frame back and switch it yourself
johnnypotato123 10/11/2016 6:53pm
10/11/2016 6:53pm
Only thing I can suggest is to go to Honda directly but you probably have less chance of getting anything out of them than your local dealer. These situations suck for everyone involved, it's not the dealers fault that the frame cracked and it sure as hell isn't your fault. Honda will never admit it was there mistake either..

Sorry man
Moens_Andy 10/11/2016 6:54pm
10/11/2016 6:54pm
I think it's strange though that they would not let you take your bike back because it would be theft if they refused to give you your bike back

The Shop

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mattbmx63
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mattbmx63 10/11/2016 6:55pm
10/11/2016 6:55pm
Sadly that is probably about right. Take their labor rate times the amount of hours the job is said to take plus tax. Swapping out the frame isn't necessarily hard but takes some time.

First honda frame issue I've heard of in awhile. They seem to have the best welds.
mmmbrap41
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mmmbrap41 10/11/2016 6:56pm
10/11/2016 6:56pm
Moens_Andy wrote:
If it was my bike i would never ever agree upon that, its Honda's mistake and they need to fix it. If they agreed on sending...
If it was my bike i would never ever agree upon that, its Honda's mistake and they need to fix it.
If they agreed on sending you a frame it's not out of goodwill its part of there policy.
In the worst case scenario i would just get the bike and the new frame back and switch it yourself
The only way they good will a frame is, a dealership much do work. I was begging to do the frame and bring the old one back and they could inspect it. Still no
mmmbrap41
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mmmbrap41 10/11/2016 6:57pm
10/11/2016 6:57pm
mattbmx63 wrote:
Sadly that is probably about right. Take their labor rate times the amount of hours the job is said to take plus tax. Swapping out the...
Sadly that is probably about right. Take their labor rate times the amount of hours the job is said to take plus tax. Swapping out the frame isn't necessarily hard but takes some time.

First honda frame issue I've heard of in awhile. They seem to have the best welds.
Google images 15 crf450 frame crack.... mines the same but worse
mmmbrap41
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mmmbrap41 10/11/2016 6:59pm
10/11/2016 6:59pm
Moens_Andy wrote:
I think it's strange though that they would not let you take your bike back because it would be theft if they refused to give you...
I think it's strange though that they would not let you take your bike back because it would be theft if they refused to give you your bike back
Because of riding it.
mxracer12587
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mxracer12587 10/11/2016 7:07pm
10/11/2016 7:07pm
I was a service manager for a Honda dealership (automobile) . Sounds like they called district rep and he said he would pay for parts. We did this all the time . I recommend calling the customer satisfaction line and keep your cool but be very firm. They do not like bad imagine normally.
mmmbrap41
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mmmbrap41 10/11/2016 7:14pm
10/11/2016 7:14pm
mxracer12587 wrote:
I was a service manager for a Honda dealership (automobile) . Sounds like they called district rep and he said he would pay for parts. We...
I was a service manager for a Honda dealership (automobile) . Sounds like they called district rep and he said he would pay for parts. We did this all the time . I recommend calling the customer satisfaction line and keep your cool but be very firm. They do not like bad imagine normally.
I tried that... I want as many people as I can to get to see this. Hopefully the right person will see this and help me out.
Brad460
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Brad460 10/11/2016 7:22pm
10/11/2016 7:22pm
Remember the dealer is an independent business and they don't work for free....I spent some years working in warranty and often reimbursed parts only..no labor. But the labor needed to be performed by a "dealer" for many obvious reasons. If customers really pushed hard we would cover some labor...

For sure $700 is a lot of money to have to pay someone to swap over the frame, but likely what it cost the dealer.

I would ask the dealer to consider a discount on the labor as a good-will..
Ryno23
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Ryno23 10/11/2016 7:26pm
10/11/2016 7:26pm
mmmmbrap41, I will give you some insight on how this works from a dealership standpoint. I am the service manager at a Honda dealership in MT. So I do have knowledge in this very subject.

Now, understand MX bike warranty is kinda like a 30/30 warranty. As in 30 feet or 30 seconds, whichever comes first. Sad but true, there is no warranty on "competition models" from Honda according to the service policy and procedures section of their Honda_IN network. Now, the fact that some thing of this nature happened and Honda recognized they would do something is a side you need to look at. They have NO obligation to do anything BUT in this situation what they call a "goodwill claim" is done. This is authorized through the Honda Service Rep in that region and is exactly what Honda does indeed refer to the claim as. Sometimes a "goodwill claim" will include labor, often times it won't. That is where your dealership steps in.

I have handled this situation more times than I can recount but as a dealership I look at the several things to consider before telling my customer "you owe me $$$ for the repair on your bike" when Honda paid for the parts. A dealership can absorb this as a cost of customer satisfaction NO QUESTION if they really want/need to. All I really have to do is take care of my tech's time especially since they are on a performance bonus pay scale. Every hour they bill whether it is warranty, customer pay, sales add ons, setups, ect. I pay them a bonus. I make sure they get that time. So really if it took a tech 8 hours to switch your frame (which isn't that far off really) I would obviously loose money in the shop for the day I pay my tech BUT the dealership also sees it as a customer that we took care of. That only helps us in the longrun. And truthfully, this kind of stuff doesn't happen very often where the we have to abosrb this stuff.

So in reality your dealer didn't seem to be able to or want to help you with the deal BUT you also got a free frame when there was no obligation to do so. That is the honest truth to the deal. Sorry it had to happen that way. I
know how it feels. My fork seal on my 16 CRF450R made it all of 15 minutes out of the crate on the first warm up test ride. Something in the crate knicked the forkleg taking out the fork seals from what I can guess. I had to replace the lower fork tube as it was just not right nor could I get it smoothed out enough. I could have possibly fought for concealed crate damage but even that was past the time frame allowed by Honda. Yep, even me working at a dealership and having access to all the ways to manipulate the warranty. I bought a lower fork tube.

Long story short, shit happens man. And usually it costs you money.

Cheers,
Ryan
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APLMAN99 10/11/2016 7:27pm
10/11/2016 7:27pm
mmmbrap41 wrote:
. I bought the bike from a dealership in pa where I live. January 15, we had snow on the ground so I couldn't ride it...
. I bought the bike from a dealership in pa where I live. January 15, we had snow on the ground so I couldn't ride it for two months. I put a hour meter on the bike before I even started it. I change the oil ever 2 hours of riding engine and trans. Air filter every ride. 75 hours total on the bike. Susp. Service twice, grease everything three times

HOW DOES A FRAME CRACK IN THE MIDDLE OF A FACTORY WELD, THAT IS DONE BY ROBOTICS?????????? IM 157LBS B RIDER!!!!!!!!!! RIGHT ASIDE OF WHERE THE HEADER PIPE BOLTS TO THE MOTOR. THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE WELD DOESNT EVEN LOOK LIKE IT PENETRATED. JUST A BUNCH OF BUILD UP. So I took it to the dealership where I bought it. They wouldn't let me take my bike back home. Like I want to ride a bike with a cracked frame.... so whatever I left it there. They got Honda to good will the frame but the only deal was I had to pay the labor. "$763.20" to switch my frame around. How does it cost that much? Why should I have to pay for what I already paid for? This is there manufacturing mistake. So shouldthey should cover the labor as well? Someone help 763 to switch a frame is ridiculous
They aren't actually switching your frame around. They're switching every other part on the bike......!

Probably about the right amount of labor dollars, but I can understand not wanting to pay for it if they are somewhat implying it was a manufacturing defect.
Ryno23
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Ryno23 10/11/2016 7:28pm
10/11/2016 7:28pm Edited Date/Time 10/11/2016 7:32pm
Brad460 wrote:
Remember the dealer is an independent business and they don't work for free....I spent some years working in warranty and often reimbursed parts only..no labor. But...
Remember the dealer is an independent business and they don't work for free....I spent some years working in warranty and often reimbursed parts only..no labor. But the labor needed to be performed by a "dealer" for many obvious reasons. If customers really pushed hard we would cover some labor...

For sure $700 is a lot of money to have to pay someone to swap over the frame, but likely what it cost the dealer.

I would ask the dealer to consider a discount on the labor as a good-will..
Brad, that is exactly the truth. There is a "cost" to labor as well. A dealer can discount that labor rate to make it more fair for a customer as well.

And there is no way it cost the dealership $700 to do. Think of it this way, a tech making lets say $25hr lets figure his cost of labor is actually about $30 an hour. So at $700 that is 20+ hours of labor??? Ummm.... either they are paying this dude WAY too much or he is REALLY milking the clock on this one. Just saying...
mmmbrap41
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mmmbrap41 10/11/2016 7:44pm
10/11/2016 7:44pm
Ryno23 wrote:
mmmmbrap41, I will give you some insight on how this works from a dealership standpoint. I am the service manager at a Honda dealership in MT...
mmmmbrap41, I will give you some insight on how this works from a dealership standpoint. I am the service manager at a Honda dealership in MT. So I do have knowledge in this very subject.

Now, understand MX bike warranty is kinda like a 30/30 warranty. As in 30 feet or 30 seconds, whichever comes first. Sad but true, there is no warranty on "competition models" from Honda according to the service policy and procedures section of their Honda_IN network. Now, the fact that some thing of this nature happened and Honda recognized they would do something is a side you need to look at. They have NO obligation to do anything BUT in this situation what they call a "goodwill claim" is done. This is authorized through the Honda Service Rep in that region and is exactly what Honda does indeed refer to the claim as. Sometimes a "goodwill claim" will include labor, often times it won't. That is where your dealership steps in.

I have handled this situation more times than I can recount but as a dealership I look at the several things to consider before telling my customer "you owe me $$$ for the repair on your bike" when Honda paid for the parts. A dealership can absorb this as a cost of customer satisfaction NO QUESTION if they really want/need to. All I really have to do is take care of my tech's time especially since they are on a performance bonus pay scale. Every hour they bill whether it is warranty, customer pay, sales add ons, setups, ect. I pay them a bonus. I make sure they get that time. So really if it took a tech 8 hours to switch your frame (which isn't that far off really) I would obviously loose money in the shop for the day I pay my tech BUT the dealership also sees it as a customer that we took care of. That only helps us in the longrun. And truthfully, this kind of stuff doesn't happen very often where the we have to abosrb this stuff.

So in reality your dealer didn't seem to be able to or want to help you with the deal BUT you also got a free frame when there was no obligation to do so. That is the honest truth to the deal. Sorry it had to happen that way. I
know how it feels. My fork seal on my 16 CRF450R made it all of 15 minutes out of the crate on the first warm up test ride. Something in the crate knicked the forkleg taking out the fork seals from what I can guess. I had to replace the lower fork tube as it was just not right nor could I get it smoothed out enough. I could have possibly fought for concealed crate damage but even that was past the time frame allowed by Honda. Yep, even me working at a dealership and having access to all the ways to manipulate the warranty. I bought a lower fork tube.

Long story short, shit happens man. And usually it costs you money.

Cheers,
Ryan
I understand where your coming from. The dealership didn't want to help me. The part that pisses me off when I walked in there with my bike. We talked about my bike and my next question was do you have any 17's cuz I thought I might just have to buy a new bike and my gf even was thinking about a new bike. That would be 2 17's they could have sold but not anymore.
newmann
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newmann 10/11/2016 7:51pm
10/11/2016 7:51pm
My 1978 Yamaha YZ80 shit the bed in grand fashion when the frame developed 13 cracks...my lucky number. The damn engine nearly fell out the bottom of the frame! Yamaha provided a new frame and labor to weld in a mfg. provided gusset kit but I had to pay the $90.00 labor to swap everything over on a bike that cost $572.00 out the door. So, your 700 bucks doesn't seem too out of line...Sick

Make sure to get the gusset kit! It, by the way didn't help as that frame promptly started falling apart and my parents sold my bike. Big FU to Yamaha for that, they ruined my childhood and owe me reparations. I'll take a new YZ125 please!Laughing

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Yamaha-YZ80E-YZ80-Frame-Gusset-Lit-OEM-2J5-…



Sad to say but I'll probably buy that gusset kit to go with a 78 YZ80 I recently purchased from a friend in Colorado. Going to recapture my youth and get that factory ride I was destined for.

CrashMaster
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CrashMaster 10/11/2016 11:05pm
10/11/2016 11:05pm Edited Date/Time 10/11/2016 11:06pm
Shit back in 95 my 95 YZ125 frame broke at the weld, Yamaha sent me a new frame for free and I swapped it out in 4 hours at home. Honda sucks...
HenryA
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HenryA 10/11/2016 11:33pm
10/11/2016 11:33pm
...how about they charge Honda for the labor instead of you?

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VRR7
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VRR7 10/11/2016 11:56pm
10/11/2016 11:56pm
Honda gave you a free frame when they did not have to.
The Dealership which is not Honda but another entities own business never gave you anything.Maybe some time to organize the free parts.
Where you offered the frame without the labour? Ie DIY or get another quote ?
Dealers can claim from the manufacturer labour when they recognize a problem then they issue how much time they will pay for.
Yamaha frames crack a lot specially the YZ250/450F 2009 shape. I have seen many. I have never seen a cracked CRF frame ever.
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Jrewing 10/12/2016 2:20am
10/12/2016 2:20am
HenryA wrote:
...how about they charge Honda for the labor instead of you?
I know hey!!
motoxxx599 10/12/2016 4:16am
10/12/2016 4:16am
I literally broke a 97' KX 250 in half after 2 rides and Kawasaki refused to help - ended up buying a frame
aedwards07
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aedwards07 10/12/2016 4:24am
10/12/2016 4:24am
If you search on here I posted the exact same thing happen on the exact same bike. Then I got a call from American Honda. He basically told me to take it wherever I wanted dealer wise. 2 weeks later i had s brand new frame. Honestly they couldn't of handled it any better. Moral of the story is I would post pictures and some way to get ahold of you as certain people do read the boards apparently.
hvaughn88
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hvaughn88 10/12/2016 4:59am
10/12/2016 4:59am
Some of these responses really surprise me
reded
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reded 10/12/2016 5:02am
10/12/2016 5:02am Edited Date/Time 10/12/2016 5:06am
It's a dirtbike and has no warranty. I wouldn't have even mentioned it to Honda, they don't give a shit what happens to it after it rolls off the floor. instead I would have found a good TIG guy in my area, pulled off the parts that would give him the best access and fixed the fucking thing. You would have been back riding by now for a $100 bill.
ferg722
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ferg722 10/12/2016 6:38am
10/12/2016 6:38am
Vote for Bernie bro, Honda will give you a 17' 450 and wipe your ass for free, all for the inconvenience of trying to help you out with something you broke.
ktm212
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ktm212 10/12/2016 7:08am
10/12/2016 7:08am
The fact Honda good-willed you a $1800 frame after you have 75 hours on a bike is a good move. Also, from hondas stand point and the dealer, why would they just hand you a frame and say ok you do all the work and bring me back the parts? That's a liability, plain and simple. Also most labor rates at a dealership vary between 75-100 an hour and 5-7 hours to swap everything is about average especially on a used bike. Also the attitude of you at the dealership goes a long way, to get a manufacture to goodwill a frame took alot of convincing by the service manager, its not like they have a problem and its not like your bike has 2 hours on it. if you're jumping up and down telling them they aren't doing enough you're paying for it, especially if you're not a returning regular customer. Dealerships are in business and there's a procedure that has to be gone through especially on warranty work.
Cygnus
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Cygnus 10/12/2016 7:16am
10/12/2016 7:16am
reded wrote:
It's a dirtbike and has no warranty. I wouldn't have even mentioned it to Honda, they don't give a shit what happens to it after it...
It's a dirtbike and has no warranty. I wouldn't have even mentioned it to Honda, they don't give a shit what happens to it after it rolls off the floor. instead I would have found a good TIG guy in my area, pulled off the parts that would give him the best access and fixed the fucking thing. You would have been back riding by now for a $100 bill.
This is the correct answer to the thread folks . Good clap.
mmmbrap41
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mmmbrap41 10/12/2016 8:59am
10/12/2016 8:59am
ktm212 wrote:
The fact Honda good-willed you a $1800 frame after you have 75 hours on a bike is a good move. Also, from hondas stand point and...
The fact Honda good-willed you a $1800 frame after you have 75 hours on a bike is a good move. Also, from hondas stand point and the dealer, why would they just hand you a frame and say ok you do all the work and bring me back the parts? That's a liability, plain and simple. Also most labor rates at a dealership vary between 75-100 an hour and 5-7 hours to swap everything is about average especially on a used bike. Also the attitude of you at the dealership goes a long way, to get a manufacture to goodwill a frame took alot of convincing by the service manager, its not like they have a problem and its not like your bike has 2 hours on it. if you're jumping up and down telling them they aren't doing enough you're paying for it, especially if you're not a returning regular customer. Dealerships are in business and there's a procedure that has to be gone through especially on warranty work.
Dude I was nice kinda the whole 10 yards... been there a few times so I am a returning customer
KTMShane699
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KTMShane699 10/12/2016 9:20am
10/12/2016 9:20am
mmmbrap41 wrote:
Dude I was nice kinda the whole 10 yards... been there a few times so I am a returning customer
Been there a few times meaning you stop in occasionally when you need something in a pinch and order everything else online? Or returning as in you're always there buying your stuff and the guys that work there know you when you walk in?

Returning and regular are two different things. It seems small, but the dealer is asking for goodwill for you. They are going out of your way. They may push a little harder if you're a regular and a good customer. If you're a customer who just stops in for oil when you run out, don't be surprised when you get standard answers.

I don't know the situation you're in, but it sounds like the dealer and Honda have been reasonable.
mmmbrap41
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mmmbrap41 10/12/2016 9:30am
10/12/2016 9:30am
mmmbrap41 wrote:
Dude I was nice kinda the whole 10 yards... been there a few times so I am a returning customer
KTMShane699 wrote:
Been there a few times meaning you stop in occasionally when you need something in a pinch and order everything else online? Or returning as in...
Been there a few times meaning you stop in occasionally when you need something in a pinch and order everything else online? Or returning as in you're always there buying your stuff and the guys that work there know you when you walk in?

Returning and regular are two different things. It seems small, but the dealer is asking for goodwill for you. They are going out of your way. They may push a little harder if you're a regular and a good customer. If you're a customer who just stops in for oil when you run out, don't be surprised when you get standard answers.

I don't know the situation you're in, but it sounds like the dealer and Honda have been reasonable.
Oem parts and small items, the dealership is way to far to just stop in 1 hour drive and they have fixed 4 wheelers and stuff before. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DEALERSHIP, they are in business to make money. This has to do with Honda paying for there mistake

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