First attempt at suspension rebuild gone very wrong

ajf55
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Sicklerville, NJ, USA
So many times in the past ive had my suspension rebuilt and revalved however after seeing a few videos and studying my service manual I figured I shouldn't have a problem giving it a shot. As you can probably tell by now it did not go as planned. So I thought I did everything correct in the forks however after reassembly I noticed both have a slight knock when the fork is compressed. One fork has a more pronounced knock that the other. The inner cartridges have 200 ml and the have 350ml as stated in the manual. In the forks the only things changed were the bushings, seals, circlips and oils. Another issue I ran into is one of the rebound clickers spins without any resistance(it still clicks however it does not bottom out). The other rebound clicker does not turn in or out when the base bolt is installed however if the base bolt is off it turns freely. It seems whatever is on the other side of the d-rod is jammed. Sorry if it is hard to understand what I'm trying to say like I said I'm pretty new to this suspension stuff so I'm not too positive on the lingo. As for the shock I installed the bladder and the shaft and seal case and the circlips so I added the fluid through the compression dampner hole and when I try to bleed it the fluid level just moves up and down which seems normal however it seems like the seal casing is moving up and down. At first I thought it was an air pocket that allowed it to move without resistance but I can hear the seal case move up and down. Does any of this seem even reasonable? Again I'm not familiar with any of this but I'm sure someone has to have an idea. Thanks!
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Micahdogg
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9/21/2016 2:08pm
What bike are you talking about? Did you use an impact?

Just take it all apart and try again. Smile
Paw Paw
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9/21/2016 2:35pm
If you did not back the rebound clickers all the way out prior to the forks being taken apart you many have damaged them.

Paw Paw
mxtech1
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9/21/2016 3:07pm
Forks are fairly easy to diagnose. More than likely you did not get the dampner rod jam-nut tightened correctly. If this comes loose, you are basically allowing the internal dampner to float in the lower fork leg. You will have to take it back apart to diagnose. I would recommend pulling both apart again. Don't separate the upper and lower legs so that you can save your seals.

I understand what's going on with your shock but it seems like you are doing too many things the wrong way. Too many points that need addressed and I can't type it all out. You need to watch more videos and learn. Paul Thede from Race Tech has some really good step-by-step information on his website or buy his book. If you put the shock together wrong, you can be in some serious danger when you go to charge the bladder.
stevo450
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9/21/2016 3:23pm
Seems like you followed the manual by filling the shock via the compression damper opening.
You're better off revisiting some of the technics you are using....

The Shop

adam8781
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9/21/2016 11:36pm Edited Date/Time 9/21/2016 11:37pm
alot of misinformation posted already, if you have questions feel free to private message (email me through vital pm)


watch the last half of this video, its not perfect but its damn close, I work for pro action western canada, good on you for tackling this yourself, not many people try this, and even fewer get it right

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_InEnom2ec
Micahdogg
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9/22/2016 7:16am
Does anyone yet know what kind of bike/fork this guy is talking about?
ajf55
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9/22/2016 1:08pm
Sorry guys. The bike is an 05 rm250 btw. I got the shock torn down again and am starting over. Is there an easier way to bleed the shock that through the compression dampner hole? What could be moving in the shock while I'm attempting to bleed it. It just seems like as I compress it the level rises and when I retract it the level goes down. There's no bubbles at all. I'm definitely starting to regret attempting the forks and shock at the same time.
ajf55
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9/22/2016 1:10pm
And no an impact was not used for disassembly
Micahdogg
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9/22/2016 1:29pm Edited Date/Time 9/22/2016 1:45pm
Get the shaft back together with all the bits...your bumper, cap, sealhead,valving, etc... and finally the nut. Mount the shock upside down (clamp the upper mount in a vice). Fill oil into the bladder side, halfway or so, install the bladder and make sure oil pours out from all around it in the process.

Install the retaining clip, pump it up about 40 psi with air, Fill other side with oil most of the way up, then install your shaft. Pump the shaft up and down, slow short strokes, get that oil foaming. Do that for the next 20 minutes till the oil is done foaming.

Once you are confident most of the air is out of the oil, top off the shaft side with more oil, press the seal head into the shock as far as it can go. It will only go so far - at that point, purge the air from your bladder and it should sink down far enough to install the retaining clip. Then air your bladder up with a little air and make sure the sealhead and bladder both seat against their clips nice and easy. Then go for 150 - 175 psi of air. If its all good, you can take it to a shop and have em fill it with nitrogen.

There are more little tidbits, but that's basically it.
stevo450
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9/24/2016 7:46am
Good description on the shock assemble, a few points to add ( little tips ):
-once you've done the initial bleed use a rubber mallet to deliver a short sharp blow to the clevis-this will crack open the high speed stack. Remember to pull the rod out VERY SLOWLY to avoid cavitation on the other side of the piston.
-not sure how much it helps but if you find a lot of bubbles keep coming up, let the bubbles pop ( or use a needle etc to pop them ). Sometime I find this rids the oil of air faster ( which is bad...really bad in any shock ).
-make sure you pressurise the bladed enough to displace a decent amount of oil in the bladder side ( the bladder can be compressed too much when installing the seal head and it can 'shrivel up' too much which may hinder its function ).
-BE PATIENT Wink
ajf55
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9/25/2016 2:14pm
stevo450 wrote:
Good description on the shock assemble, a few points to add ( little tips ): -once you've done the initial bleed use a rubber mallet to...
Good description on the shock assemble, a few points to add ( little tips ):
-once you've done the initial bleed use a rubber mallet to deliver a short sharp blow to the clevis-this will crack open the high speed stack. Remember to pull the rod out VERY SLOWLY to avoid cavitation on the other side of the piston.
-not sure how much it helps but if you find a lot of bubbles keep coming up, let the bubbles pop ( or use a needle etc to pop them ). Sometime I find this rids the oil of air faster ( which is bad...really bad in any shock ).
-make sure you pressurise the bladed enough to displace a decent amount of oil in the bladder side ( the bladder can be compressed too much when installing the seal head and it can 'shrivel up' too much which may hinder its function ).
-BE PATIENT Wink
It was quite the opposite actually. After compressing and extending the shock shaft the first 2 or 3 times, there were barely any bubbles after that. I was installing the compression dampener loosely and removing it each time i compressed the shaft for when i didn't the oil would spray out all over. Also is it normal that as i would pull the shaft out the bladder would pull itself further into the shock body? Should i have the bladder filled when doing this? Thanks
adam8781
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9/27/2016 7:21am
the bladder should be full but not filled, before you insert it into the body push the valve so it balances with the atmosphere before inserting it in the shock.


and when putting the piston in the oil, give it a few smacks on the end with a mallet it will force the air out of the piston
ajf55
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10/4/2016 10:03am
So I got the rebound damper issue resolved. Couple questions however... If the inner cartridge is completely bled should the rod extend completely? It does extend after I push it in however there is about another inch or so I'm able to pull it out after it stops. Same with the shock shaft. Should I continue bleeding or is this normal. Thanks
mxtech1
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10/4/2016 10:34am
ajf55 wrote:
So I got the rebound damper issue resolved. Couple questions however... If the inner cartridge is completely bled should the rod extend completely? It does extend...
So I got the rebound damper issue resolved. Couple questions however... If the inner cartridge is completely bled should the rod extend completely? It does extend after I push it in however there is about another inch or so I'm able to pull it out after it stops. Same with the shock shaft. Should I continue bleeding or is this normal. Thanks
It should almost fully extend. I usually try to get it within 1/4" or so.

You should start the bleeding process over and try to get it better. If no luck, you may have some worn parts on the internals.
ajf55
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10/5/2016 6:14am
Thanks. Can someone Confirm 24 clicks is correct?
ajf55
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10/6/2016 1:40pm
Well I believe I have the knock in the forks figured out. They only knock when they are extending, not when they are compressed. I took it back apart to see if I could find anything and when I removed the inner cartridge I noticed that if I compress it and then pull it back out there is that knock. I could only imagine how hard it probably is to understand what I'm saying but I'm just hoping it might sound familiar to someone. It seems like there is an air pocket due to the free play where that knock occurs and also after the dampner rod stops extending I'm able to still pull it out another 2 inches or so. I've tried to bleed them again and there is no air coming out as I pump the rod. Is there a trick to bleeding these that I'm not understanding or is something else wrong. Thanks. I can try uploading a video if that might give a better idea of what's going on.
mxtech1
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10/7/2016 10:10am
When bleeding the inner cartridge, your last stroke of the dampner rod should force excessive oil out. If no oil is coming out, you aren't putting enough oil in the cartridge.

It should be hard to put the cap back in the inner cartridge due to the oil height.
ajf55
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10/7/2016 10:38am
Yes after I put the cap on I pump it multiple times until oil stops coming out. And i read some where to push in the rod when putting the cap on. Is this correct? Thanks
mxtech1
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10/7/2016 2:11pm
ajf55 wrote:
Yes after I put the cap on I pump it multiple times until oil stops coming out. And i read some where to push in the...
Yes after I put the cap on I pump it multiple times until oil stops coming out. And i read some where to push in the rod when putting the cap on. Is this correct? Thanks
No, do not push the rod in before the cap is on. That's probably causing you're problem because you don't have a proper seal until the cap is fully seated.

Leave the rod fully extended. Like I said before, if you are putting the right amount of oil in the inner, the last 1/2" or so of putting the cap in will be hard. You will really have to push the cap down and compress it to get the threads started. I usually use a clamp to help hold that way you have both hands free to compress and spin the cap into the threads.

When you bleed, the first rod stroke should only be about 3". Check to make sure it's fully pushing the rod back to home position. Then, stroke the rod ~10 times but make sure you are stroking it very slow and only halfway. To evacuate the excess oil on the final stroke, stroke the rod very fast and all the way until it's fully compressed. This needs to be done all in one, fast, fluid motion. I usually do this by setting a rag down on the bench and then grabbing the upper body by both hands. This will allow you to rest the dampener rod on the rag and compress it quickly and to full travel.

After the last stroke, turn the cartridge so the excess oil can run out of the thru holes and clean up. Check the rod again to make sure it's returning fully.
ajf55
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10/7/2016 2:57pm
mxtech1 wrote:
No, do not push the rod in before the cap is on. That's probably causing you're problem because you don't have a proper seal until the...
No, do not push the rod in before the cap is on. That's probably causing you're problem because you don't have a proper seal until the cap is fully seated.

Leave the rod fully extended. Like I said before, if you are putting the right amount of oil in the inner, the last 1/2" or so of putting the cap in will be hard. You will really have to push the cap down and compress it to get the threads started. I usually use a clamp to help hold that way you have both hands free to compress and spin the cap into the threads.

When you bleed, the first rod stroke should only be about 3". Check to make sure it's fully pushing the rod back to home position. Then, stroke the rod ~10 times but make sure you are stroking it very slow and only halfway. To evacuate the excess oil on the final stroke, stroke the rod very fast and all the way until it's fully compressed. This needs to be done all in one, fast, fluid motion. I usually do this by setting a rag down on the bench and then grabbing the upper body by both hands. This will allow you to rest the dampener rod on the rag and compress it quickly and to full travel.

After the last stroke, turn the cartridge so the excess oil can run out of the thru holes and clean up. Check the rod again to make sure it's returning fully.
So bleed with the cap on? if so How does the air escape and also how do I know when there is no more air in the system? How much fluid do I pour in? I was filling it up to about a half inch below the holes. And when you say returning fully, I should not be able to pull the rod out anymore after it stops? Sorry for the excess questions just seems like everything I've read before, I'm now questioning. Thanks

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