MXON: Are Americans too spoiled

lostboy819 9/27/2016 1:58pm
9/27/2016 1:58pm Edited Date/Time 9/27/2016 2:00pm
I think its real easy to think of reasons and excuses when you dont want to go.
But when you do want to go they are just small obstacles to overcome.
OleTex
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OleTex 9/27/2016 2:09pm
9/27/2016 2:09pm
RG1 wrote:
Exactly. MXdN will still be amazing even if they don't go. They can boycott it if they like, it would be entirely their loss
MXDN would die if the US stopped attending. That would be everyone's loss. Let's hope this can be worked out so we can all enjoy it.
scott_nz 9/27/2016 2:17pm
9/27/2016 2:17pm
the Kiwi and Aussie riders have done this a lot over the years, just turned up with bars and sometimes suspension,

Ferris got 4th in his class like this, and BT got 2nd in his class last year on a buildbase honda he rode once before the des nations,

I can see why the americans would want their own bikes tho, they are up against it travelling to europe anyway,

Youthstream should be paying some of the travel tho, they make a fortune out of this event, the teams that fly in should get something back,
ML512
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ML512 9/27/2016 2:26pm
9/27/2016 2:26pm
cookies wrote:
There is a major difference between Eli getting some stock bike or getting offered a race ready bike (even if it isnt to his likings).
I addressed that in my original statement about the KRT vs US bikes. It was suggested he could use the KRT team bike and I was explaining why that isn't quite what some people think of the two bikes.

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xK-Ix 9/27/2016 2:38pm
9/27/2016 2:38pm
MXMattii wrote:
Some fans are angry, say they should boycott because it isn't in America and that isn't fair. Others say it isn't fair that America should spend...
Some fans are angry, say they should boycott because it isn't in America and that isn't fair. Others say it isn't fair that America should spend all that money, every year. Thats why I asked myself, are they too spoiled. Because, its like DV says: 90% of the crew doesn't change the results, but they cost money to fly to their and sleep at the scene.

Shipping bikes is maybe the least of the cost if you see that the Americans had three or even four bodyguards at the MXON in Lommel.
And what about Australia, New Zealand, Japan, Brazil, South Africa, etc. ...
Don't hear any complains from them. And I would assume they have way less financial resources then the US Teams have ...
But nonetheless youthstream could pay all of them a bit, they benefit from it and making enough money.

All in all i think this topic is completly exaggerated and next year it will be the same like the last years and no one will have a problem with that!
Underground 9/27/2016 2:39pm
9/27/2016 2:39pm
A couple of years it costs $900 US to send a crated bike and a few goodies LAX to Sydney. Would be less across the pond and a form of promotion would make that cheaper. The gravy train is what's blowing the budget. If a smaller country like Australia can do it each year from further without a chance to overall without crying, why can't the USA? Stop making excuses and race.
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jamma10 9/27/2016 2:47pm
9/27/2016 2:47pm Edited Date/Time 9/27/2016 2:47pm
scott_nz wrote:
the Kiwi and Aussie riders have done this a lot over the years, just turned up with bars and sometimes suspension, Ferris got 4th in his...
the Kiwi and Aussie riders have done this a lot over the years, just turned up with bars and sometimes suspension,

Ferris got 4th in his class like this, and BT got 2nd in his class last year on a buildbase honda he rode once before the des nations,

I can see why the americans would want their own bikes tho, they are up against it travelling to europe anyway,

Youthstream should be paying some of the travel tho, they make a fortune out of this event, the teams that fly in should get something back,
Youthstream offers a $2K travel endemnity to each team that participates at the MXdN.

They also offer just over $23K in purse money spread between the top twelve teams. That's not a lot obviously, but it's better than nothing.

This year there were 38 teams, so Youthstream paid out just shy of $100,000 on top of whatever their other logistical costs are.
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cookies 9/27/2016 2:51pm
9/27/2016 2:51pm
cookies wrote:
There is a major difference between Eli getting some stock bike or getting offered a race ready bike (even if it isnt to his likings).
ML512 wrote:
I addressed that in my original statement about the KRT vs US bikes. It was suggested he could use the KRT team bike and I was...
I addressed that in my original statement about the KRT vs US bikes. It was suggested he could use the KRT team bike and I was explaining why that isn't quite what some people think of the two bikes.
I can understand that Eli doesnt want a different setup for a big race like the MXoN. Its just that the venue doesnt have to be this expensive. KRT could supply them with all the spare parts they need (aside from some necessities which could be packed with the bike container). Shipping one/two bikes shouldnt be a deal breaker for such a big event. Kawasaki had the potential to get some good exposure, now they had no podiums at all.
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ML512 9/27/2016 2:58pm
9/27/2016 2:58pm
cookies wrote:
I can understand that Eli doesnt want a different setup for a big race like the MXoN. Its just that the venue doesnt have to be...
I can understand that Eli doesnt want a different setup for a big race like the MXoN. Its just that the venue doesnt have to be this expensive. KRT could supply them with all the spare parts they need (aside from some necessities which could be packed with the bike container). Shipping one/two bikes shouldnt be a deal breaker for such a big event. Kawasaki had the potential to get some good exposure, now they had no podiums at all.
Eli attending this year wasn't because of cost. However, that was a reason for JGR not being interested for Barcia.
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Stuntman949 9/27/2016 3:05pm
9/27/2016 3:05pm
ML512 wrote:
I'm not even going to go through all the responses, I'll just jump to an answer for Eli's bike. Check my Pit Bits from the USGP...
I'm not even going to go through all the responses, I'll just jump to an answer for Eli's bike. Check my Pit Bits from the USGP for an example, they're different machines! KRT and the Kawi US teams are radically different for development and don't share info. Great example, Villopoto didn't really care for the engine of the KRT team, the way it produced power and feels quite a bit different then his bike here. Also, the swingarms and chassis are different, along with the electronics, suspension, etc. as many parts as they would need to bring, it's easier just to build two bikes here and ship them. The MXdN is a difficult race and he should have his best equipment available to him. I do agree with DV however that the US team brings a large entourage that's probably a bit unnecessary. The equiptment, however, is the necessary.
Same plastic color Michael!
aFACEdismembered 9/27/2016 3:05pm
9/27/2016 3:05pm
People and organizations will always spend what they can afford. If the budget was cut in half and they were required to go they would find a way. I get the feeling that during all of our success we stopped making exceptions and just letting everyone jump on the bus for the trip. Now that we're not winning the cost is outweighing the "experience."

Other teams are doing much more with much less and the people writing checks don't like that.
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cookies 9/27/2016 3:06pm
9/27/2016 3:06pm
cookies wrote:
I can understand that Eli doesnt want a different setup for a big race like the MXoN. Its just that the venue doesnt have to be...
I can understand that Eli doesnt want a different setup for a big race like the MXoN. Its just that the venue doesnt have to be this expensive. KRT could supply them with all the spare parts they need (aside from some necessities which could be packed with the bike container). Shipping one/two bikes shouldnt be a deal breaker for such a big event. Kawasaki had the potential to get some good exposure, now they had no podiums at all.
ML512 wrote:
Eli attending this year wasn't because of cost. However, that was a reason for JGR not being interested for Barcia.
Thanks for the info. Do you happen to know if Eli rejected it for personal reasons or if the team didnt want to? (assuming he did get asked tho, which has been stated here some times?) Same for Roczen, brand switch the reason he wasnt there this year?
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xK-Ix 9/27/2016 3:17pm
9/27/2016 3:17pm
cookies wrote:
Thanks for the info. Do you happen to know if Eli rejected it for personal reasons or if the team didnt want to? (assuming he did...
Thanks for the info. Do you happen to know if Eli rejected it for personal reasons or if the team didnt want to? (assuming he did get asked tho, which has been stated here some times?) Same for Roczen, brand switch the reason he wasnt there this year?
Eli said it was just too much with the two USGPs he had to attend due to sponsors (Monster) and later the monster cup, so he would have no break in the season.
Roczen said a few stupid and confusing thing about not attending MXoN, but now as the deal with Honda is official he said it was the team switch why he was not able to go there...
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Titan1 9/27/2016 3:28pm
9/27/2016 3:28pm Edited Date/Time 9/27/2016 3:28pm
I think America should stop going because they are in a lose/lose situation...

When they win, they lose because they are "supposed to win" because of population/number of top riders/etc. etc. So they get no credit.

And when they lose they really lose because they are "supposed to win".

Of course, if USA keeps actually losing year after year, this could change...lol
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joeellis 9/27/2016 3:49pm
9/27/2016 3:49pm
I really don't see the huge mystery as to why many of the American riders aren't really stoked about participating in the event. I wouldn't know where to find it, but I believe some have even alluded to a particular reason. The riders compete in two long, grueling seasons here in the states, rarely if ever get a break from training and the event is abroad most of the time. They get paid by their sponsors to race the 2 American seasons and the top guys are expected to win.

All this adds up to lots of fatigue. Mental and physical and I'm sure none of these guys come out of either season perfectly healthy, so do they need another highly competitive event where injuries are very possible on their schedules? As fans, it is natural for us to want to see the best compete against each other and we're disappointed when it doesn't happen, but most of these guys really have nothing to prove. Especially when it is a once a year event. Riders are always going to ride tracks that they are not accustomed to. Americans in Europe and many of the Europeans in America.

This event is great and I hope it continues forever, but one event doesn't really prove who the best riders are. The only thing that will undoubtedly prove this is having all the top riders compete year after year in the same events and this just isn't going to happen.
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OleTex 9/27/2016 3:55pm
9/27/2016 3:55pm
joeellis wrote:
I really don't see the huge mystery as to why many of the American riders aren't really stoked about participating in the event. I wouldn't know...
I really don't see the huge mystery as to why many of the American riders aren't really stoked about participating in the event. I wouldn't know where to find it, but I believe some have even alluded to a particular reason. The riders compete in two long, grueling seasons here in the states, rarely if ever get a break from training and the event is abroad most of the time. They get paid by their sponsors to race the 2 American seasons and the top guys are expected to win.

All this adds up to lots of fatigue. Mental and physical and I'm sure none of these guys come out of either season perfectly healthy, so do they need another highly competitive event where injuries are very possible on their schedules? As fans, it is natural for us to want to see the best compete against each other and we're disappointed when it doesn't happen, but most of these guys really have nothing to prove. Especially when it is a once a year event. Riders are always going to ride tracks that they are not accustomed to. Americans in Europe and many of the Europeans in America.

This event is great and I hope it continues forever, but one event doesn't really prove who the best riders are. The only thing that will undoubtedly prove this is having all the top riders compete year after year in the same events and this just isn't going to happen.
Thank you Joe. I could not agree more. I've suggested it before; why can't the AMA and USGP series coordinate a long break and hold it then? Maybe in the middle of the seasons?
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agn5009 9/27/2016 4:01pm
9/27/2016 4:01pm
Motofinne wrote:
Yes. Never heard complaints about team USA needing more money from YS when it was nice for all the bros and manfriends to attend a race...
Yes.

Never heard complaints about team USA needing more money from YS when it was nice for all the bros and manfriends to attend a race that they won even before the gate dropped because they were so much better than all the other teams.

These kind of opinions have started now when USA aren't the only favorites to the title. Not as fun as it used to be?


What ever. The race will live with or without team USA.
RG1 wrote:
Exactly. MXdN will still be amazing even if they don't go. They can boycott it if they like, it would be entirely their loss
No it wouldn't be the same. A lot of interest would be lost on both sides of the pond. It would essentially be just another GP race without team USA. I know you hate the USA and all, but to deny that team USA brings the majority of interest to this race is just stupid.
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agn5009 9/27/2016 4:03pm
9/27/2016 4:03pm
joeellis wrote:
I really don't see the huge mystery as to why many of the American riders aren't really stoked about participating in the event. I wouldn't know...
I really don't see the huge mystery as to why many of the American riders aren't really stoked about participating in the event. I wouldn't know where to find it, but I believe some have even alluded to a particular reason. The riders compete in two long, grueling seasons here in the states, rarely if ever get a break from training and the event is abroad most of the time. They get paid by their sponsors to race the 2 American seasons and the top guys are expected to win.

All this adds up to lots of fatigue. Mental and physical and I'm sure none of these guys come out of either season perfectly healthy, so do they need another highly competitive event where injuries are very possible on their schedules? As fans, it is natural for us to want to see the best compete against each other and we're disappointed when it doesn't happen, but most of these guys really have nothing to prove. Especially when it is a once a year event. Riders are always going to ride tracks that they are not accustomed to. Americans in Europe and many of the Europeans in America.

This event is great and I hope it continues forever, but one event doesn't really prove who the best riders are. The only thing that will undoubtedly prove this is having all the top riders compete year after year in the same events and this just isn't going to happen.
OleTex wrote:
Thank you Joe. I could not agree more. I've suggested it before; why can't the AMA and USGP series coordinate a long break and hold it...
Thank you Joe. I could not agree more. I've suggested it before; why can't the AMA and USGP series coordinate a long break and hold it then? Maybe in the middle of the seasons?
Because no one would race it if it was in the middle of the season. Especially the title contenders. There's too much risk of injury and their teams wouldnt allow it. You'd basically have a couple 10th-20th place guys representing our countries.

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Titan1 9/27/2016 4:06pm
9/27/2016 4:06pm
Motofinne wrote:
Yes. Never heard complaints about team USA needing more money from YS when it was nice for all the bros and manfriends to attend a race...
Yes.

Never heard complaints about team USA needing more money from YS when it was nice for all the bros and manfriends to attend a race that they won even before the gate dropped because they were so much better than all the other teams.

These kind of opinions have started now when USA aren't the only favorites to the title. Not as fun as it used to be?


What ever. The race will live with or without team USA.
RG1 wrote:
Exactly. MXdN will still be amazing even if they don't go. They can boycott it if they like, it would be entirely their loss
agn5009 wrote:
No it wouldn't be the same. A lot of interest would be lost on both sides of the pond. It would essentially be just another GP...
No it wouldn't be the same. A lot of interest would be lost on both sides of the pond. It would essentially be just another GP race without team USA. I know you hate the USA and all, but to deny that team USA brings the majority of interest to this race is just stupid.
I think with no team USA, all the countries that do participate would still be interested in the event...but there would be virtually ZERO American interest without team USA, and there is a certain "rivalry" that having the American riders there brings to the event, and that would go away...And though those two things going away wouldn't ruin the event, it would for sure put a pretty good sized dent in it.
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agn5009 9/27/2016 4:12pm
9/27/2016 4:12pm
RG1 wrote:
Exactly. MXdN will still be amazing even if they don't go. They can boycott it if they like, it would be entirely their loss
agn5009 wrote:
No it wouldn't be the same. A lot of interest would be lost on both sides of the pond. It would essentially be just another GP...
No it wouldn't be the same. A lot of interest would be lost on both sides of the pond. It would essentially be just another GP race without team USA. I know you hate the USA and all, but to deny that team USA brings the majority of interest to this race is just stupid.
Titan1 wrote:
I think with no team USA, all the countries that do participate would still be interested in the event...but there would be virtually ZERO American interest...
I think with no team USA, all the countries that do participate would still be interested in the event...but there would be virtually ZERO American interest without team USA, and there is a certain "rivalry" that having the American riders there brings to the event, and that would go away...And though those two things going away wouldn't ruin the event, it would for sure put a pretty good sized dent in it.
I agree. I didn't mean to make it sound like it'd go away. It simply wouldn't be the same and would lose a significant amount of interest. Every moto fan wants nothing more than to see Roczen, Dungey, Tomac, Webb, JMart, etc go up against Cairoli, Gajser, Herlings, Febvre, Nagl etc. It's just common sense that a race like that would bring a lot more interest than just the GP guys competing against each other except as teams.
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MR. X 9/27/2016 4:16pm
9/27/2016 4:16pm
It's always everyone against the USA ,who would everyone race against if we stopped going.
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OleTex 9/27/2016 5:06pm
9/27/2016 5:06pm Edited Date/Time 9/27/2016 5:09pm
agn5009 wrote:
Because no one would race it if it was in the middle of the season. Especially the title contenders. There's too much risk of injury and...
Because no one would race it if it was in the middle of the season. Especially the title contenders. There's too much risk of injury and their teams wouldnt allow it. You'd basically have a couple 10th-20th place guys representing our countries.
$
Crisp BRAAAP! 9/27/2016 5:17pm
9/27/2016 5:17pm
joeellis wrote:
I really don't see the huge mystery as to why many of the American riders aren't really stoked about participating in the event. I wouldn't know...
I really don't see the huge mystery as to why many of the American riders aren't really stoked about participating in the event. I wouldn't know where to find it, but I believe some have even alluded to a particular reason. The riders compete in two long, grueling seasons here in the states, rarely if ever get a break from training and the event is abroad most of the time. They get paid by their sponsors to race the 2 American seasons and the top guys are expected to win.

All this adds up to lots of fatigue. Mental and physical and I'm sure none of these guys come out of either season perfectly healthy, so do they need another highly competitive event where injuries are very possible on their schedules? As fans, it is natural for us to want to see the best compete against each other and we're disappointed when it doesn't happen, but most of these guys really have nothing to prove. Especially when it is a once a year event. Riders are always going to ride tracks that they are not accustomed to. Americans in Europe and many of the Europeans in America.

This event is great and I hope it continues forever, but one event doesn't really prove who the best riders are. The only thing that will undoubtedly prove this is having all the top riders compete year after year in the same events and this just isn't going to happen.
Let's not forget that Luongo moved the date later in the year, making it even more difficult for our riders to stay in shape after two long seasons. It's not just keeping the momentum up for a few weeks anymore and the offseason has grown ever shorter on top on that. People have commented on how we didn't used to have a problem with things, but there didn't used to be a Monster Cup, Straight Rhythm, SMX, the two MXGPs and longer stretch to get to the MXdN. It's become much more difficult to make it all fit. Truth of the matter is that - for us - SX is what matters. It's more important for Roczen to have his body and bike sorted for A1, like it or not.

Plus, look at what happened to Jason and Cooper. You risk injury and having fans say WTF after giving it your all. There's so much to lose and so little to gain.

So, yes, maybe we're too spoiled. Sorry.
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OleTex 9/27/2016 5:21pm
9/27/2016 5:21pm
Crisp BRAAAP! wrote:
Let's not forget that Luongo moved the date later in the year, making it even more difficult for our riders to stay in shape after two...
Let's not forget that Luongo moved the date later in the year, making it even more difficult for our riders to stay in shape after two long seasons. It's not just keeping the momentum up for a few weeks anymore and the offseason has grown ever shorter on top on that. People have commented on how we didn't used to have a problem with things, but there didn't used to be a Monster Cup, Straight Rhythm, SMX, the two MXGPs and longer stretch to get to the MXdN. It's become much more difficult to make it all fit. Truth of the matter is that - for us - SX is what matters. It's more important for Roczen to have his body and bike sorted for A1, like it or not.

Plus, look at what happened to Jason and Cooper. You risk injury and having fans say WTF after giving it your all. There's so much to lose and so little to gain.

So, yes, maybe we're too spoiled. Sorry.
This is probably the brutal truth. I've watched the MXDN for over 40 years now. I would hate to see it go away. Hopefully there will be some way to work this out.
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vetmxr 9/27/2016 5:54pm
9/27/2016 5:54pm Edited Date/Time 9/27/2016 6:13pm
Park Boys wrote:
Probably people like me, we should as well.
RG1 wrote:
It would be entirely the US team and fans loss
Park Boys wrote:
You have to put your foot down or let GL push everyone around for his cash which you know is all he cares about. The GP...
You have to put your foot down or let GL push everyone around for his cash which you know is all he cares about. The GP guys have no choice but to deal with him. Tim Gasjer is coming to America we already have Kenny we get plenty of world champions in our AMA series so the sting of missing the global(Europe) race hurts much less.
I'm thinking if I'm Eli Tomac and I've been blessed with talent to ride a dirt bike very well, have paid all my dues to get where I'm currently one of the baddest mofo's to line up anywhere in the world, constantly training and tearing the shit out of my body that I will have to deal with later in life, people run to the edge of the track to watch me do what I do, there is no way after sacrificing everything that I've worked for in life to achieve, that I'm even going to consider racing my bike anywhere for anyone, (that's not in my contract) without a truckload of money deposited into my bank account.That's called the spoils of success and most all pro's have really sacrificed all to get there......Only a few make it to the folding money.

Any time these PROFESSIONAL racers swing a leg over their bike, it could be their last time. Plus with all the racing that these men are expected to do has to take a large toll on themselves. I personally don't blame anyone of these guys to tell GL to go F himself for asking a professional to do what they usually get paid handsomly to do for free. MXDN or not. Its really kind of a no win scenario for the racers if you think about it. Other than the pride that comes with it, which I assume they ride for every time they race. I have yet to meet anyone that likes to get passed, really doesn't matter the circumstances. Pride kicks in.

If nothing else they should incentivise the teams by paying the podium teams big cash for first, second and third. Like alot.....so you are only racing for free if you do poorly. I think the racing would be better IMO. Smile

I love the MXDN........but to ask the fastest motocrossers in the world to risk their lives for free is bad form IMO, and I know I may get flamed for this, but I personally love to follow the American series, but even though I try really hard to follow the World Chamoinships, I just don't really care about what goes on across the pond. We have great racing in the USA and a whole bunch of guys that haul ass, and our style of racing is different than theirs I feel. I'm not putting the European efforts down..... but I have all the world championships series taped and have yet to watch one of them. The last one I watched was when Villopoto was over there.....and I only found myself watching him. Crazy. I'm not sure why but it may have something to do with pride Smile
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TeamGreen 9/27/2016 6:00pm
9/27/2016 6:00pm
If only...

The Geniuses POSTING this shit ACTUALLY KNEW WHAT GOES INTO THESE BIKES.
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RG1 9/27/2016 6:08pm
9/27/2016 6:08pm
agn5009 wrote:
No it wouldn't be the same. A lot of interest would be lost on both sides of the pond. It would essentially be just another GP...
No it wouldn't be the same. A lot of interest would be lost on both sides of the pond. It would essentially be just another GP race without team USA. I know you hate the USA and all, but to deny that team USA brings the majority of interest to this race is just stupid.
It wouldn't be just another GP, it's about your country, that's why the fans go and they take their flags and paint their faces and what not. One team not going is not going to stop that. There will always be huge European interest in this event, and that's why the event happens in Europe so often. You can go back and look at MXdN's that Team USA didn't compete at in the past if you like. Didn't look the event really struggled to me. If this was 5-6 years ago maybe you would be right, but Team USA don't have the same aura about them now
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Old&New 9/27/2016 6:16pm
9/27/2016 6:16pm
I have watched every MXdN for the past 35 years. My favorite are the last 2 years. The tracks were light years ahead of US national tracks. Awesome locations. Awesome tracks. Awesome racing. I could care less if usa did not win. The racing was amazing and the USA riders that did attend WANTED to be there. I will take that over any millionaire rider who feels obligated.
Crisp BRAAAP! 9/27/2016 7:11pm
9/27/2016 7:11pm
Old&New wrote:
I have watched every MXdN for the past 35 years. My favorite are the last 2 years. The tracks were light years ahead of US national...
I have watched every MXdN for the past 35 years. My favorite are the last 2 years. The tracks were light years ahead of US national tracks. Awesome locations. Awesome tracks. Awesome racing. I could care less if usa did not win. The racing was amazing and the USA riders that did attend WANTED to be there. I will take that over any millionaire rider who feels obligated.
Agreed with all, but one more thing: the crowds are insane. I think Ernee was almost crazier than Maggiora. There's no doubt that GH wasn't going to do that, nor was there any place that would in the US. Of course, there probably aren't many places in the world that could sustain the Youthstream fees. So maybe they just start rotating at a few tracks in Europe (and UK).

Maybe the fact that you guys are a train/car ride away makes it easier to country hop. Maybe it also makes you want to compete with your neighbors more. Maybe you have more moto fans than we do. Maybe they are all true: I dunno.

If we don't go, I'll still watch the race for sure but it will certainly lose some luster for me.

I won't blame teams and riders for not going though. I think the way it stands now is fine. I like the riders that WANTED to be there and I am damn proud of the rides they put in. We were inches from the win with a complete throw away by our moto winning rider. I just hope they want to go back after what happened this year. I know Webb will but less sure about JA.
burn1986
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burn1986 9/27/2016 7:17pm
9/27/2016 7:17pm Edited Date/Time 9/27/2016 7:18pm
Why do these threads get allowed? They only cause strife. I scratch my head every time one of these troll threads does not end up in the dumbgeon. Is there an answer to this? What the OP wanted to say was "Americans are so spoiled." Cmon guys... Bulls--t

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