Kurt Nicoll wins Endurocross Vet class on an Alta Electric motorcycle

Johnny Depp
Profile picture for user Johnny Depp
Posts
6435
Joined
10/16/2014
Location
Buda, TX, USA
Johnny Depp
Well, that sure happened quickly. His 1st week with Alta. These things are going to surprise a lot of people in competition.

In the Vet class, Kurt Nicoll won the event on an Alta electric bike, the first ever win for an electric powered motorcycle.

http://enduro21.com/index.php/endurocross/1382-haaker-claims-victory-at…

http://www.dirtrider.com/kurt-nicoll-joins-forces-with-alta-motors-for-…

|
Katoomey
Profile picture for user Katoomey
Posts
1714
Joined
1/18/2013
Location
USA
Katoomey 9/25/2016 8:57pm
9/25/2016 8:57pm
...interesting
TbonesPop 9/25/2016 10:10pm
9/25/2016 10:10pm
Yep, I was there and saw it in person. Seemed like there was carnage going on all over that race and he came out on top. He didn't fare as well in the main though - I think he came in near last. I could definitely see how an Endurocross racer would benefit from riding an electric MX bike - short races, no clutch, when you fall (and they ALL fall) don't have to worry about restarting, no shifting, lots of torque, power has a linear power curve, etc. It's a good fit for Endurocross.

BTW - Endurocross is a great event to go to. This part of our sport needs more fans attending races. I talked to one of the riders and he told me the Scottsdale race was the biggest crowd he'd ever seen for an Endurocross event, and I think there might have been 5000 people there at most. We need to get out there and go to these races. The skill level of the top riders is sick.
TbonesPop 9/25/2016 10:14pm
9/25/2016 10:14pm
Also of note, he got the holeshot in that race too.
Dirtydeeds 9/25/2016 10:16pm
9/25/2016 10:16pm
Im sure they have it all figured out but the water pits they have at an endurocross have me a tad concerned.

The Shop

See All »
TbonesPop 9/25/2016 10:22pm
9/25/2016 10:22pm
Dirtydeeds wrote:
Im sure they have it all figured out but the water pits they have at an endurocross have me a tad concerned.
They had water pits last night, no issues for the Alta in them. I was able to go through the pits after the race and check it out, the bike is definitely as well built frame/suspension as any normal MX bike. I'm not a big fan of giving up a gas engine, but I do like the progression of having an electric option. I'd love to have one that I can ride in the back yard in town.
fasterfaster
Profile picture for user fasterfaster
Posts
93
Joined
1/3/2011
Location
San Francisco, CA, USA
fasterfaster 9/26/2016 10:32am
9/26/2016 10:32am
Hi all, Marc from Alta here. Pretty stoked to see this getting some attention...

Some quick answers:
- Yup, he won the vet main and yes there was carnage. Lots of it. Part of our goal with this format was to prove the bike is up to any abuse you might throw at it and retire some of the questions of "can it do the technical stuff without a clutch?" I hope we achieved that. (And we also think endurocross is just all around awesome. Been big fans of European hard enduro, and think this is a format that can bring that style of riding to American audiences)
- The Redshift can run underwater. No more hydrolock.

Happy to answer anything else you want to throw my way.
Johnny Depp
Profile picture for user Johnny Depp
Posts
6435
Joined
10/16/2014
Location
Buda, TX, USA
Johnny Depp 9/26/2016 11:38am
9/26/2016 11:38am
Congratulations on your progress so far! I can't imagine what it must take to get as far as you already have.

The win is a minor milestone, winning in the Pro's will be a big one. Baby steps.

Have you had any communications with sanctioning organizations about having your bike be included?
Obviously running in events like Endurocross that have an open rule book is a great place to start.

I'm not sure if it's practical, but could a battery be swapped like filling a gas tank at a pit stop for longer events?

These are exciting times, I personally am an advocate for open rule books and run what ya brung!

Thanks for reaching out..
es337
Profile picture for user es337
Posts
1086
Joined
4/13/2012
Location
USA
es337 9/26/2016 12:01pm
9/26/2016 12:01pm
fasterfaster wrote:
Hi all, Marc from Alta here. Pretty stoked to see this getting some attention... Some quick answers: - Yup, he won the vet main and yes...
Hi all, Marc from Alta here. Pretty stoked to see this getting some attention...

Some quick answers:
- Yup, he won the vet main and yes there was carnage. Lots of it. Part of our goal with this format was to prove the bike is up to any abuse you might throw at it and retire some of the questions of "can it do the technical stuff without a clutch?" I hope we achieved that. (And we also think endurocross is just all around awesome. Been big fans of European hard enduro, and think this is a format that can bring that style of riding to American audiences)
- The Redshift can run underwater. No more hydrolock.

Happy to answer anything else you want to throw my way.
A question Ive been wanting to ask ever since you redesigned the power train is where is the inverter located, within the battery, or is it in the same place? I am curious since the frame looks a lot smaller in that area since the redesign




Also, if you wouldn't mind explaining the cooling setup you have, and if it is integrated into the frame



es337
Profile picture for user es337
Posts
1086
Joined
4/13/2012
Location
USA
es337 9/26/2016 12:09pm
9/26/2016 12:09pm
also, when in the design process did you recognize to put the motor at the roll center

es337
Profile picture for user es337
Posts
1086
Joined
4/13/2012
Location
USA
es337 9/26/2016 12:12pm
9/26/2016 12:12pm
A picture for anyone who wants to see a size comparison to a ktm


seth505
Profile picture for user seth505
Posts
10210
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
SD, CA, USA
seth505 9/26/2016 12:18pm
9/26/2016 12:18pm
TbonesPop wrote:
Yep, I was there and saw it in person. Seemed like there was carnage going on all over that race and he came out on top...
Yep, I was there and saw it in person. Seemed like there was carnage going on all over that race and he came out on top. He didn't fare as well in the main though - I think he came in near last. I could definitely see how an Endurocross racer would benefit from riding an electric MX bike - short races, no clutch, when you fall (and they ALL fall) don't have to worry about restarting, no shifting, lots of torque, power has a linear power curve, etc. It's a good fit for Endurocross.

BTW - Endurocross is a great event to go to. This part of our sport needs more fans attending races. I talked to one of the riders and he told me the Scottsdale race was the biggest crowd he'd ever seen for an Endurocross event, and I think there might have been 5000 people there at most. We need to get out there and go to these races. The skill level of the top riders is sick.
Definitely fun events!
hvaughn88
Profile picture for user hvaughn88
Posts
8361
Joined
6/19/2013
Location
Conway, AR, USA
hvaughn88 9/26/2016 12:24pm
9/26/2016 12:24pm Edited Date/Time 9/26/2016 12:25pm
Another thing that I think will be interesting to watch is the development of the back shock/suspension on these bikes. Look at how much room is available back there. With no airbox and exhaust to take up as much space, you might be able to try some things that are drastically different and perhaps even better. Hell, just look at how many different configurations there are on mountain bikes these days.
fasterfaster
Profile picture for user fasterfaster
Posts
93
Joined
1/3/2011
Location
San Francisco, CA, USA
fasterfaster 9/26/2016 5:13pm
9/26/2016 5:13pm
Johnny Depp wrote:
Congratulations on your progress so far! I can't imagine what it must take to get as far as you already have. The win is a minor...
Congratulations on your progress so far! I can't imagine what it must take to get as far as you already have.

The win is a minor milestone, winning in the Pro's will be a big one. Baby steps.

Have you had any communications with sanctioning organizations about having your bike be included?
Obviously running in events like Endurocross that have an open rule book is a great place to start.

I'm not sure if it's practical, but could a battery be swapped like filling a gas tank at a pit stop for longer events?

These are exciting times, I personally am an advocate for open rule books and run what ya brung!

Thanks for reaching out..
Thanks! Yup, agreed baby steps. We're working on AMA homologation for pro classes, and it will happen eventually, but it's an involved process. In the meantime, we're trying to prove the bikes everywhere we can. We were also at the Santa Rosa GNC Short Track this weekend, running with the 450s. Really fun time.

The battery was designed to be swappable, but what we've found is that fast charging (from a 220V) is far more convenient, especially with a muddy bike. The result is that the battery is really easy to install and service, but we don't think it will be worth the expense or hassle for anyone shy of a full factory race program, and in that case they'd probably just run two bikes.
fasterfaster
Profile picture for user fasterfaster
Posts
93
Joined
1/3/2011
Location
San Francisco, CA, USA
fasterfaster 9/26/2016 5:17pm
9/26/2016 5:17pm Edited Date/Time 9/26/2016 5:21pm
es337 wrote:
A question Ive been wanting to ask ever since you redesigned the power train is where is the inverter located, within the battery, or is it...
A question Ive been wanting to ask ever since you redesigned the power train is where is the inverter located, within the battery, or is it in the same place? I am curious since the frame looks a lot smaller in that area since the redesign




Also, if you wouldn't mind explaining the cooling setup you have, and if it is integrated into the frame



Yeah, the inverter is in a real similar location though the orientation was flipped, and it now thermally couples to the rear bulkhead (which also houses the water-cooled motor). In the re-design between the original prototype and the production generation, we were able to pull a lot of material out of the rear bulkhead even while increasing strength about 40%. That's why you see such a more minimal rear bulkhead and larger reliance on the extremely strong and ductile forgings that make up the front.

And yup, you called it, the coolant is then piped into the front bulkhead which also acts as our radiator... no external radiator to break of puncture.

Placing the motor at the roll center was key to the architecture from the very beginning. Derek spent the first year of nights and weekends running through different architecture scenarios before settling on the high-placement, high-speed transverse motor with a gear reduction for countershaft placement, as the optimum - it provided the best power to weight, best packaging for the battery, and optimum placement of the heaviest rotating component (the motor). Between the mass centralization and lack of gyro, it's crazy how easily the bike rolls... I know it's cliche, but it feels like a bike 30lbs lighter in the transitions.

Where'd you dig up all these pictures? I think you have stuff even I don't!
shaffstall721 9/26/2016 5:37pm
9/26/2016 5:37pm
Cool stuff!!!! Nice to see a WIP
xr70
Profile picture for user xr70
Posts
912
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
La crescenta, CA, USA
xr70 9/26/2016 8:00pm
9/26/2016 8:00pm
To bad tha it got the 4cs fork on it !
fasterfaster
Profile picture for user fasterfaster
Posts
93
Joined
1/3/2011
Location
San Francisco, CA, USA
fasterfaster 9/26/2016 8:47pm
9/26/2016 8:47pm
xr70 wrote:
To bad tha it got the 4cs fork on it !
We've done a ton of work on the 4CS (things, frankly, WP didn't want us to do). I think you'll be impressed if/when you try it. If it wasn't holding back Kurt...
Bruce372
Profile picture for user Bruce372
Posts
6329
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
Bruce372 9/26/2016 9:02pm
9/26/2016 9:02pm
fasterfaster wrote:
Hi all, Marc from Alta here. Pretty stoked to see this getting some attention... Some quick answers: - Yup, he won the vet main and yes...
Hi all, Marc from Alta here. Pretty stoked to see this getting some attention...

Some quick answers:
- Yup, he won the vet main and yes there was carnage. Lots of it. Part of our goal with this format was to prove the bike is up to any abuse you might throw at it and retire some of the questions of "can it do the technical stuff without a clutch?" I hope we achieved that. (And we also think endurocross is just all around awesome. Been big fans of European hard enduro, and think this is a format that can bring that style of riding to American audiences)
- The Redshift can run underwater. No more hydrolock.

Happy to answer anything else you want to throw my way.
You are based near south san francisco, right? Are you open to visits? I work in the biotechnology hub there on gateway

Pit Row

See All »
Bruce372
Profile picture for user Bruce372
Posts
6329
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
Bruce372 9/26/2016 9:05pm
9/26/2016 9:05pm
Congratulations on the win
jmc2
Profile picture for user jmc2
Posts
1353
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Gilbert, AZ, USA
Fantasy
817th
jmc2 9/26/2016 9:07pm
9/26/2016 9:07pm
TbonesPop wrote:
Yep, I was there and saw it in person. Seemed like there was carnage going on all over that race and he came out on top...
Yep, I was there and saw it in person. Seemed like there was carnage going on all over that race and he came out on top. He didn't fare as well in the main though - I think he came in near last. I could definitely see how an Endurocross racer would benefit from riding an electric MX bike - short races, no clutch, when you fall (and they ALL fall) don't have to worry about restarting, no shifting, lots of torque, power has a linear power curve, etc. It's a good fit for Endurocross.

BTW - Endurocross is a great event to go to. This part of our sport needs more fans attending races. I talked to one of the riders and he told me the Scottsdale race was the biggest crowd he'd ever seen for an Endurocross event, and I think there might have been 5000 people there at most. We need to get out there and go to these races. The skill level of the top riders is sick.
I was there as well. Good to see a lot of DA8 support! I was impressed with the crowd as well as the skill of the riders. I couldn't imagine attempting a lap on the course.Took my wife and kids to their first race and they had a great time!
HardTaco
Profile picture for user HardTaco
Posts
333
Joined
10/15/2011
Location
USA
HardTaco 9/26/2016 9:39pm
9/26/2016 9:39pm
I used to get physically sick at the idea of an electric bike... But man these things are growing on me. The riding opportunities are limitless with this type of bike. I have a feeling in ~10 years we will all be on these things. Backyard moto tracks in the city - without bitching neighbors, and huge woods loops in the country - without pissed off landowners and hunters. Win win!
fasterfaster
Profile picture for user fasterfaster
Posts
93
Joined
1/3/2011
Location
San Francisco, CA, USA
fasterfaster 9/26/2016 9:56pm
9/26/2016 9:56pm
Bruce372 wrote:
You are based near south san francisco, right? Are you open to visits? I work in the biotechnology hub there on gateway
Yeah, we're based in Brisbane, but don't have the capacity to take visitors just yet. We did just drop SM demos at our SF dealership though, so you can street test the bikes there. Exact same drivetrain and chassis.

First priority is getting bikes out there door though - people have been waiting a lot longer than we'd like, so it's all hands on deck building and shipping right now. Hoping to be able to open up to factory to visits in the future. I'm really proud of the team and operation we've built here, and that we're able to build the bikes here in California.
Bruce372
Profile picture for user Bruce372
Posts
6329
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
Bruce372 9/26/2016 10:19pm
9/26/2016 10:19pm
Bruce372 wrote:
You are based near south san francisco, right? Are you open to visits? I work in the biotechnology hub there on gateway
fasterfaster wrote:
Yeah, we're based in Brisbane, but don't have the capacity to take visitors just yet. We did just drop SM demos at our SF dealership though...
Yeah, we're based in Brisbane, but don't have the capacity to take visitors just yet. We did just drop SM demos at our SF dealership though, so you can street test the bikes there. Exact same drivetrain and chassis.

First priority is getting bikes out there door though - people have been waiting a lot longer than we'd like, so it's all hands on deck building and shipping right now. Hoping to be able to open up to factory to visits in the future. I'm really proud of the team and operation we've built here, and that we're able to build the bikes here in California.
Well, if you want to see my science laboratories let me know! Smile

I am really behind you guys and I know good things will happen. ....I will never forget seeing a tesla go off the lights once...I've never seen anything accelerate so fast.

I just ditched the nitro engine on my kids rc car too lol
mx_563
Profile picture for user mx_563
Posts
2205
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
mx_563 9/26/2016 11:56pm
9/26/2016 11:56pm
fasterfaster wrote:
We've done a ton of work on the 4CS (things, frankly, WP didn't want us to do). I think you'll be impressed if/when you try it...
We've done a ton of work on the 4CS (things, frankly, WP didn't want us to do). I think you'll be impressed if/when you try it. If it wasn't holding back Kurt...
Actually, we don't know if it held him back or not. Nor do we know if vet class endurocross is a good indicator of fork performance (just sayin'). ;-)

That being said, I admit it's silly to worry about forks when you're dealing with a paradigm shift in propulsion.

BTW: met some dude at Foresthill yesterday that claimed to know you. KTM 250xcf-w guy from SF. Said you were selling your 08' 250xcf-w.
Olson
Profile picture for user Olson
Posts
4605
Joined
4/14/2012
Location
SE
Olson 9/27/2016 12:06am
9/27/2016 12:06am
Good job. Impressing.
RangerLee
Profile picture for user RangerLee
Posts
946
Joined
7/23/2013
Location
Spring City, PA, USA
RangerLee 9/27/2016 3:41am
9/27/2016 3:41am
Is there any video of it? I want to see that race.
Bearuno
Profile picture for user Bearuno
Posts
5489
Joined
6/28/2014
Location
AU
Bearuno 9/27/2016 6:43am
9/27/2016 6:43am
So, fasterfaster, did you run it with the standard battery pack?

Please don't think I'm being critical at all. A race situation like that, would really benefit from the weight minimisation that a smaller battery pack would give - just like carrying minimal petrol would be in an ICE bike.

I've had a few rides on Quantyas and the KTM Erides at bike parks in Europe, and Brammos in the US. Fun things, but I want a full sized Motorcycle as an E Dirt Bike. Yours, fit the bill. The battery on the KTM, I saw changed in about 1.5 minutes. But, off course, having that spare, for a normal user, would be pretty expensive.

I'll keep an eye on your site, for any factory tours, and also try to 'T' up a SM ride at that dealer, next year.

Yours is a brilliant looking bike.
Johnny Depp
Profile picture for user Johnny Depp
Posts
6435
Joined
10/16/2014
Location
Buda, TX, USA
Johnny Depp 9/27/2016 7:18am
9/27/2016 7:18am Edited Date/Time 9/27/2016 7:19am
I see on your Alta facebook page that Josh Hill is practicing for straight rythm! Great idea! (I'm not going to make a battery joke here, but you could run an extension cord there Smile

The Monster Energy Cup would be a race with no homolgation....Hmmm. maybe Andrew Short would like to do something really different for his finale? He is one of the best development rider's in the sport, and on the fringe of retirement..
p0wn
Profile picture for user p0wn
Posts
214
Joined
5/19/2016
Location
Portland, OR, USA
p0wn 9/27/2016 11:37am
9/27/2016 11:37am
This is the future. Think about it - everybody with a few acres can have an mx track to play on without noise complaints.

Post a reply to: Kurt Nicoll wins Endurocross Vet class on an Alta Electric motorcycle