Herlings win taken away?

kongols
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kongols 9/13/2016 12:24am
9/13/2016 12:24am Edited Date/Time 9/13/2016 12:26am
Good day to you too, sir.

Edit. This was a reply to MotoX85, but somehow quote button didn`t work. He must be on GP fuel.
SCR
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SCR 9/13/2016 12:26am
9/13/2016 12:26am
Interesting. Thanks. Now we just have to find out who snuck in the aviation gas that they found in Herlings bike Dry
PressPassP
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PressPassP 9/13/2016 12:52am
9/13/2016 12:52am
SCR wrote:
I heard same thing. When they come to US they can run AMA fuel or FIM fuel. So how would KTM be cheating unless they are...
I heard same thing. When they come to US they can run AMA fuel or FIM fuel. So how would KTM be cheating unless they are using a fuel that is illegal to both FIM and AMA? If they are then don't they have to do all the testing and set up for that fuel also ? And at the end of the day would there really be that big of an advantage. It's not Nascar.

Or are you saying only US teams can run AMA fuel ?

Anyway sounds ridiculous to me also. But I am curious about the rule and the rumor.
kongols wrote:
We have to wait for Michael to chime in.
ML512 wrote:
Hey yo! So according to the Star team, they did run GP spec fuel at Charolette. I had heard a few days before the race that...
Hey yo!

So according to the Star team, they did run GP spec fuel at Charolette. I had heard a few days before the race that they had spent a whole day on the dyno with the fuel to come up with an ecu spec ,so I thought they were ready going into the event. They said they found out they could use US spec fuel only minutes before the first moto was set to go, so they didn't have time to change. They had the bike running well, so they stuck with it for both motos. At Glen Helen however, they said they would be running US spec fuel in Harrison's bike. All the teams I asked said that both GP and US teams could run US spec fuel if they wanted. I noticed some GP teams had US spec fuel I was familiar with, while others seemed to be sticking with the GP fuel they had brought.

I wasn't able to get an exact list going, but it appears as if all US-based riders/bikes were on US fuel at Glen Helen, along with the Red Bull KTM teams, HRC bikes, and KRT bikes...

Both Yamaha GP 250 teams were on GP spec fuel... I'm not sure what Rinaldi was on... I saw a lot of GP spec fuel laying around for the smaller participating teams (Leopard and the Logistics KTM teams, the Italian Honda team, DRT, TM, etc...)

As for sound, the GP sound regulation is currently the same as our Supercross limit. So the US teams brought out exhaust cans and inserts from Supercross.

The crew from Geico told me it was actually easier to pass the at the GP when compared to Supercross because of the conditions. At a Supercross, it's colder (winter) and especially at the East rounds it can be very humid. This combination makes the air thicker and cause sound to reverberate more. Also, the stadium and surrounding buildings cause a problem with the sound bouncing back. In the flat and open parking lot at Glen Helen, along with the dry/hot weather, it made the sound test easier to pass. For a good example, Geico didn't have to run the right side airbox cover or the extra sideplate and underseat foam they use in Supercross to pass the test.

Added note: Come the MXdN, all bikes must still run the GP fuel spec. There won't be any US spec fuel allowed.
I'm glad to hear that they will all be on GP fuel at the MXdN and hope it's true, the talk of Loungo bending the rules whenever the GP and AMA meet has come up so often,this is the most open it's actually been talked about,its definitely no longer a conspiracy!

There's much more to using different fuel than just putting it in the tank as you point out, exhausts, ECU and compression ratios etc
RG1
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RG1 9/13/2016 1:43am
9/13/2016 1:43am
crusty_xx wrote:
Has any one heard that he might be out for mxdn? Or am I just again hearing stupid stuff?
I don't think he's out for the MXdN. He said in a Racer X interview that he doesn't know if he can be ready, but I kinda took that to mean that he wouldn't be ready as he would like, not that he wasn't going to do it. I think if he wasn't going to go he wouldn't have said that he would be on the team in the first place

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fullfloater 9/13/2016 2:29am
9/13/2016 2:29am
Forget Herlings, they needed to test Tomac's fuel.

Sideways
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Sideways 9/13/2016 3:55am
9/13/2016 3:55am Edited Date/Time 9/13/2016 3:56am
MotoX85 wrote:
Everyone was running the same US spec fuel. Kongols could create bullshit drama at a deaf nun convention. Man you guys are really butt hurt Herlings...
Everyone was running the same US spec fuel. Kongols could create bullshit drama at a deaf nun convention. Man you guys are really butt hurt Herlings got beat. Holy cow!!!!
Herlings won 4 of 5 motos in the US.
philG
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philG 9/13/2016 4:25am
9/13/2016 4:25am
PressPassP wrote:
I'm glad to hear that they will all be on GP fuel at the MXdN and hope it's true, the talk of Loungo bending the rules...
I'm glad to hear that they will all be on GP fuel at the MXdN and hope it's true, the talk of Loungo bending the rules whenever the GP and AMA meet has come up so often,this is the most open it's actually been talked about,its definitely no longer a conspiracy!

There's much more to using different fuel than just putting it in the tank as you point out, exhausts, ECU and compression ratios etc
Its not the fuel, its what the fuel allows you to do... higher compression, different cams, point of injection, FAM etc .. on a 250 its a big deal.

Of course if they all ran to the same regs , it wouldn't be an issue anywhere.

We had a motor that had to have U4 in it, £4.80 a litre, thing was a missile, you couldn't run it on pump gas, we did accidentally once and it felt like I was pulling a trailer
RG1
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RG1 9/13/2016 4:38am
9/13/2016 4:38am
MotoX85 wrote:
Everyone was running the same US spec fuel. Kongols could create bullshit drama at a deaf nun convention. Man you guys are really butt hurt Herlings...
Everyone was running the same US spec fuel. Kongols could create bullshit drama at a deaf nun convention. Man you guys are really butt hurt Herlings got beat. Holy cow!!!!
Including the qualifying race at GH he won 80% of the races he was in whilst he was over there. I think we can let one moto slide
St Ann More 9/13/2016 4:54am
9/13/2016 4:54am Edited Date/Time 9/13/2016 4:55am
crusty_xx wrote:
Has any one heard that he might be out for mxdn? Or am I just again hearing stupid stuff?
RG1 wrote:
I don't think he's out for the MXdN. He said in a Racer X interview that he doesn't know if he can be ready, but I...
I don't think he's out for the MXdN. He said in a Racer X interview that he doesn't know if he can be ready, but I kinda took that to mean that he wouldn't be ready as he would like, not that he wasn't going to do it. I think if he wasn't going to go he wouldn't have said that he would be on the team in the first place
He's still hasn't confirmed, going to meet with the federation this week according to him.
EnvyMedia 9/13/2016 5:41am
9/13/2016 5:41am
crusty_xx wrote:
Has any one heard that he might be out for mxdn? Or am I just again hearing stupid stuff?
RG1 wrote:
I don't think he's out for the MXdN. He said in a Racer X interview that he doesn't know if he can be ready, but I...
I don't think he's out for the MXdN. He said in a Racer X interview that he doesn't know if he can be ready, but I kinda took that to mean that he wouldn't be ready as he would like, not that he wasn't going to do it. I think if he wasn't going to go he wouldn't have said that he would be on the team in the first place
Such bullshit if he decides to opt out. Especially with that reason. He rode the 450 numerous of times this year not to mention a lot of times in previous years.
Excaliburbmx
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Excaliburbmx 9/13/2016 5:42am
9/13/2016 5:42am
Herlings Tomac Webb. All those wins were legit with epic rides. Props to a great couple of races and hope we see many more.
Bidirella
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Bidirella 9/13/2016 6:16am
9/13/2016 6:16am
I dont know how people come by these crazy rumors. Fuel and not going to ride the MXDN. Herlings will ride the MXDN, this sunday he is racing the 450 in the Belgium Championship in Kester. Saterday they have a press conference with the whole team somewhere in Holland. He will be fine but he is not prepared that he wants to be. Lucky for him, Roczen and Tomac are not riding.
JustMX
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JustMX 9/13/2016 6:38am
9/13/2016 6:38am
How much testing would there be to change fuel now that just about everything has efi?
RG1
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RG1 9/13/2016 6:48am
9/13/2016 6:48am
crusty_xx wrote:
Has any one heard that he might be out for mxdn? Or am I just again hearing stupid stuff?
RG1 wrote:
I don't think he's out for the MXdN. He said in a Racer X interview that he doesn't know if he can be ready, but I...
I don't think he's out for the MXdN. He said in a Racer X interview that he doesn't know if he can be ready, but I kinda took that to mean that he wouldn't be ready as he would like, not that he wasn't going to do it. I think if he wasn't going to go he wouldn't have said that he would be on the team in the first place
EnvyMedia wrote:
Such bullshit if he decides to opt out. Especially with that reason. He rode the 450 numerous of times this year not to mention a lot...
Such bullshit if he decides to opt out. Especially with that reason. He rode the 450 numerous of times this year not to mention a lot of times in previous years.
I agree. Especially seeing as this is the Netherlands best chance of a podium for a long time. Having said that, I do think he'll race. He just needs to sort a couple of things out that he hasn't had the chance to do when he was in the US
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GregDVT 9/13/2016 6:58am
9/13/2016 6:58am
SCR wrote:
I heard same thing. When they come to US they can run AMA fuel or FIM fuel. So how would KTM be cheating unless they are...
I heard same thing. When they come to US they can run AMA fuel or FIM fuel. So how would KTM be cheating unless they are using a fuel that is illegal to both FIM and AMA? If they are then don't they have to do all the testing and set up for that fuel also ? And at the end of the day would there really be that big of an advantage. It's not Nascar.

Or are you saying only US teams can run AMA fuel ?

Anyway sounds ridiculous to me also. But I am curious about the rule and the rumor.
kongols wrote:
We have to wait for Michael to chime in.
ML512 wrote:
Hey yo! So according to the Star team, they did run GP spec fuel at Charolette. I had heard a few days before the race that...
Hey yo!

So according to the Star team, they did run GP spec fuel at Charolette. I had heard a few days before the race that they had spent a whole day on the dyno with the fuel to come up with an ecu spec ,so I thought they were ready going into the event. They said they found out they could use US spec fuel only minutes before the first moto was set to go, so they didn't have time to change. They had the bike running well, so they stuck with it for both motos. At Glen Helen however, they said they would be running US spec fuel in Harrison's bike. All the teams I asked said that both GP and US teams could run US spec fuel if they wanted. I noticed some GP teams had US spec fuel I was familiar with, while others seemed to be sticking with the GP fuel they had brought.

I wasn't able to get an exact list going, but it appears as if all US-based riders/bikes were on US fuel at Glen Helen, along with the Red Bull KTM teams, HRC bikes, and KRT bikes...

Both Yamaha GP 250 teams were on GP spec fuel... I'm not sure what Rinaldi was on... I saw a lot of GP spec fuel laying around for the smaller participating teams (Leopard and the Logistics KTM teams, the Italian Honda team, DRT, TM, etc...)

As for sound, the GP sound regulation is currently the same as our Supercross limit. So the US teams brought out exhaust cans and inserts from Supercross.

The crew from Geico told me it was actually easier to pass the at the GP when compared to Supercross because of the conditions. At a Supercross, it's colder (winter) and especially at the East rounds it can be very humid. This combination makes the air thicker and cause sound to reverberate more. Also, the stadium and surrounding buildings cause a problem with the sound bouncing back. In the flat and open parking lot at Glen Helen, along with the dry/hot weather, it made the sound test easier to pass. For a good example, Geico didn't have to run the right side airbox cover or the extra sideplate and underseat foam they use in Supercross to pass the test.

Added note: Come the MXdN, all bikes must still run the GP fuel spec. There won't be any US spec fuel allowed.
So Cooper Webb put on that clinic at Charlotte with GP fuel while Herlings ran AMA fuel? Not that it gives one or the other that much of an advantage, because of the R&D put in before the gate drop. Just impressed (more than I already was) they put on such a show with unfamiliar fuel.

Would be very interested to see the final Dyno numbers from star with GP/AMA fuel. I can dream can't I?
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DoctorJD 9/13/2016 7:10am
9/13/2016 7:10am
fullfloater wrote:
Forget Herlings, they needed to test Tomac's fuel. [img]http://www.sciuridae.co.uk/big_boys_toys/images/nitro_fuel.jpg[/img]
Forget Herlings, they needed to test Tomac's fuel.

My sources are telling me he was running nitro. I'll try to get conformation.
mx317
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mx317 9/13/2016 7:18am
9/13/2016 7:18am
MotoX85 wrote:
Everyone was running the same US spec fuel. Kongols could create bullshit drama at a deaf nun convention. Man you guys are really butt hurt Herlings...
Everyone was running the same US spec fuel. Kongols could create bullshit drama at a deaf nun convention. Man you guys are really butt hurt Herlings got beat. Holy cow!!!!
Sideways wrote:
Herlings won 4 of 5 motos in the US.
Quit answering with facts, it is not allowed here! Laughing
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agn5009 9/13/2016 7:22am
9/13/2016 7:22am
haydos25 wrote:
I thought reed ended that rumour at Charlotte and said they're all running the same. Did that change again?
kongols wrote:
Only if you believe what Reed said.
I believe what Reed said. Why would he lie about something so stupid?

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agn5009
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agn5009 9/13/2016 7:26am
9/13/2016 7:26am
Excaliburbmx wrote:
Herlings Tomac Webb. All those wins were legit with epic rides. Props to a great couple of races and hope we see many more.
I agree. Webb was the best 250 rider at Charlotte. Herlings was the best 250 rider at Glen Helen. Tomac was the best 450 rider at both races. I'm not sure why that's so hard for people to understand. It's a pretty easy concept, actually.
EnvyMedia 9/13/2016 8:13am
9/13/2016 8:13am
Bidirella wrote:
I dont know how people come by these crazy rumors. Fuel and not going to ride the MXDN. Herlings will ride the MXDN, this sunday he...
I dont know how people come by these crazy rumors. Fuel and not going to ride the MXDN. Herlings will ride the MXDN, this sunday he is racing the 450 in the Belgium Championship in Kester. Saterday they have a press conference with the whole team somewhere in Holland. He will be fine but he is not prepared that he wants to be. Lucky for him, Roczen and Tomac are not riding.
He did an interview with transworld and he said he hasn't decided yet whether to race or not.
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mxb2 9/13/2016 8:18am
9/13/2016 8:18am
Excaliburbmx wrote:
Herlings Tomac Webb. All those wins were legit with epic rides. Props to a great couple of races and hope we see many more.
agn5009 wrote:
I agree. Webb was the best 250 rider at Charlotte. Herlings was the best 250 rider at Glen Helen. Tomac was the best 450 rider at...
I agree. Webb was the best 250 rider at Charlotte. Herlings was the best 250 rider at Glen Helen. Tomac was the best 450 rider at both races. I'm not sure why that's so hard for people to understand. It's a pretty easy concept, actually.
Fanboys don't like truth or reality
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visser62 9/13/2016 8:18am
9/13/2016 8:18am
agn5009 wrote:
I believe what Reed said. Why would he lie about something so stupid?

Well, the team told ML something contrary to Reed's claim.
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IceMan446 9/13/2016 8:38am
9/13/2016 8:38am
crusty_xx wrote:
Has any one heard that he might be out for mxdn? Or am I just again hearing stupid stuff?
stewie94 wrote:
honestly from reading open mic from racerx sounds like he aint tht pumped for it , prolly getting worned out
Wait, but he races a lot less than Eli does.

hmmmmmm
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agn5009 9/13/2016 8:44am
9/13/2016 8:44am
agn5009 wrote:
I believe what Reed said. Why would he lie about something so stupid?

visser62 wrote:
Well, the team told ML something contrary to Reed's claim.
I must've missed something then. I remember Reed saying the teams could choose which fuel to use. And from ML wrote, teams could choose which fuel to use.
mx836
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mx836 9/13/2016 9:24am
9/13/2016 9:24am
Kongols and his tinfoil hat were very prominent in this thread until everything he posted was proved wrong by ML. Laughing
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Osaka627 9/13/2016 9:26am
9/13/2016 9:26am
mulletman wrote:
Well if they didn't do anything to the golden boy of MXGP for jumping on waved yellows, they won't do anything to his successor.
In MXGP you can't jump on a yellow?
mx836
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mx836 9/13/2016 9:28am
9/13/2016 9:28am
mulletman wrote:
Well if they didn't do anything to the golden boy of MXGP for jumping on waved yellows, they won't do anything to his successor.
Osaka627 wrote:
In MXGP you can't jump on a yellow?
You can not jump on a waving yellow. You can if it's not waving.
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kongols 9/13/2016 9:30am
9/13/2016 9:30am
mx836 wrote:
Kongols and his tinfoil hat were very prominent in this thread until everything he posted was proved wrong by ML. Laughing
Which part exactly was proven wrong?
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ML512 9/13/2016 9:40am
9/13/2016 9:40am
mx836 wrote:
Kongols and his tinfoil hat were very prominent in this thread until everything he posted was proved wrong by ML. Laughing
kongols wrote:
Which part exactly was proven wrong?
I didn't see a tin foil hat. You were on point about the rules being mixed up, as the teams seemed to point out that Charolette was a confusing situation. Actually, great example of confusion, I and the entire Geico Honda team showed up about an hour late on Sunday for the warm up practices, because the schedule had been changed and some of the teams weren't properly informed. That's why Jeremy Martin missed getting track time before the first moto, as he was walking in when I was, while 250 practice was already on the track.

As for Star's situation, as they mentioned they didn't know about the fuel until it was too late to swap over, but apparently some teams were informed. Then for Glen Helen, anyone was allowed to run US fuel. But, it seemed to be decided late enough or not clarified at the previous round so many teams just stuck with what they had. If you didn't have the data or help to switch the mapping for fuels or time to dyno this week, it would be a bit pointless to switch fuel. So it's definitely an odd situation because only a few teams could take advantage of the fuel swap between rounds, while others weren't in the position to gain anything.
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mx836 9/13/2016 9:48am
9/13/2016 9:48am
mx836 wrote:
Kongols and his tinfoil hat were very prominent in this thread until everything he posted was proved wrong by ML. Laughing
kongols wrote:
Which part exactly was proven wrong?
I misunderstood your post referencing the OP about US guys being able to use better fuel and exhaust since it was followed by comments like "if you believe what Reed said" and "Luongo bends the rules to get Americans to compete". These are not exact quotes of what you posted. I don't have time to go back and look. Seemed as though you were saying the Americans had an unfair advantage, but I apparently misread. What rules does Luongo bend for Americans? If he didn't do something, there would be 15 guys on the line in MX2 at Glen Helen.

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