Toy Hauler question

MXD
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Edited Date/Time 4/10/2017 7:45pm
The one reason I've avoided a toy hauler for so long is that I can't deal with the durability issues (mostly leaks and roof maintenance). These seem like they would put all of my issues to rest. Does anyone have any experience with these? It looks like the perfect solution, am I missing something?

https://www.livinlite.com/toy-haulers.php
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Katoomey
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6/7/2016 10:59am
i'm on my second Livinlite. Other trailers dont compare.

I had one of their original design X series haulers from about 10 years ago. It was bare bones, but very functional.

Now i've got a 7x20 XLP with double fold-outs and i absolutely love it. It pulls great, has a ton of space for moto stuff. If you can accept the lack of luxury, and just want functionality, haulers dont get much better.

Pros- lightweight, easy care, high quality construction, modular design, lots of options, designed as haulers first, RV second.

Cons- not as comfortable as traditional RV. Low WAF. Cost per foot.
mxbrian15
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6/7/2016 11:01am
You want no roof maintenance issues and toy haulers that are built to last? Look into a work-and-play by Forest River. You can thank me later.
EastFlorida
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6/7/2016 11:05am
Those sure look nice!! What pricing for 7X20?
MXD
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6/7/2016 11:13am
mxbrian15 wrote:
You want no roof maintenance issues and toy haulers that are built to last? Look into a work-and-play by Forest River. You can thank me later.
I'm familiar with the W&P line and I agree, they are very nice. The problem is, I have a 1/2 ton EcoBoost. No problem pulling it but the tongue weights of the W&Ps are way too high for a 1/2 ton. Even the 18 footer is just over 1000 pounds (actual, not advertised). I don't want a bigger truck, I prefer the ride of a 1/2 ton the other 350 days a year I drive it.

The Shop

MXD
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6/7/2016 11:15am
Katoomey wrote:
i'm on my second Livinlite. Other trailers dont compare. I had one of their original design X series haulers from about 10 years ago. It was...
i'm on my second Livinlite. Other trailers dont compare.

I had one of their original design X series haulers from about 10 years ago. It was bare bones, but very functional.

Now i've got a 7x20 XLP with double fold-outs and i absolutely love it. It pulls great, has a ton of space for moto stuff. If you can accept the lack of luxury, and just want functionality, haulers dont get much better.

Pros- lightweight, easy care, high quality construction, modular design, lots of options, designed as haulers first, RV second.

Cons- not as comfortable as traditional RV. Low WAF. Cost per foot.
I'm fine with the lack of "refinement". I'm after function over fashion. Comfortable bed, nice shower, heat/AC and basic storage. The most important component for me is there is nothing to rot. They almost seem too good to true. I keep looking for a flaw.
MXD
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6/7/2016 11:16am
Those sure look nice!! What pricing for 7X20?
Depending on how they are loaded, I am seeing them in the upper 20's.
EastFlorida
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6/7/2016 11:32am
I picked up this slightly used RPM for $7K! Like you, I wanted something light to be pulled with a Ram 1500. This pulls great and has all I need. Seems like the smaller ones sell for more than larger ones - I suspect due to tow vehicle requirements.

Would love to get a new one like you are considering, but I can't justify it right now. Good luck and post what you get!!


6/7/2016 12:31pm
Love mine.





Uncle_Eddie
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Millbury, MA, USA
6/7/2016 1:12pm
MXD wrote:
I'm familiar with the W&P line and I agree, they are very nice. The problem is, I have a 1/2 ton EcoBoost. No problem pulling it...
I'm familiar with the W&P line and I agree, they are very nice. The problem is, I have a 1/2 ton EcoBoost. No problem pulling it but the tongue weights of the W&Ps are way too high for a 1/2 ton. Even the 18 footer is just over 1000 pounds (actual, not advertised). I don't want a bigger truck, I prefer the ride of a 1/2 ton the other 350 days a year I drive it.
Could you put airbags on your truck and then be able to handle the extra weight? My father had a 1/2 ton and put airbags on it, made a huge difference
MXD
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6/7/2016 1:21pm Edited Date/Time 6/7/2016 2:08pm
MXD wrote:
I'm familiar with the W&P line and I agree, they are very nice. The problem is, I have a 1/2 ton EcoBoost. No problem pulling it...
I'm familiar with the W&P line and I agree, they are very nice. The problem is, I have a 1/2 ton EcoBoost. No problem pulling it but the tongue weights of the W&Ps are way too high for a 1/2 ton. Even the 18 footer is just over 1000 pounds (actual, not advertised). I don't want a bigger truck, I prefer the ride of a 1/2 ton the other 350 days a year I drive it.
Could you put airbags on your truck and then be able to handle the extra weight? My father had a 1/2 ton and put airbags on...
Could you put airbags on your truck and then be able to handle the extra weight? My father had a 1/2 ton and put airbags on it, made a huge difference
A lot of people do that thinking that if the truck is riding level, they are safe. Unfortunately, there is nothing you can do to increase payload capacity. Air bags will only help it ride level. It doesn't change the tongue weight. Payload is the amount of weight the truck can safely carry in total. This is dictated by things like the brakes, axles, tires and suspension components. Everything in your truck contributes to the payload including the change in your ash tray. It's very dangerous to overload a truck even though way too many people do it. Not to get on my high horse but with thousands of cars on the same freeway as me, I have no right to potentially harm anyone else by doing something that I know is unsafe and could cause an accident.

I went to the cat scale a while back to get the real number. With me in my truck, I have just under 1000 pounds to play with. That's if my wife, kids and dog don't come with me (which they usually don't). But I would like to stay as far under that as possible so I have room if they do. I have WD hitch which transfers some of the weight back to the trailer wheels so if I have an actual tongue weight in the 650 range, I'm fine.
jtiger12
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Forest H Ill, MD, USA
6/7/2016 1:27pm
MXD wrote:
The one reason I've avoided a toy hauler for so long is that I can't deal with the durability issues (mostly leaks and roof maintenance). These...
The one reason I've avoided a toy hauler for so long is that I can't deal with the durability issues (mostly leaks and roof maintenance). These seem like they would put all of my issues to rest. Does anyone have any experience with these? It looks like the perfect solution, am I missing something?

https://www.livinlite.com/toy-haulers.php
How does the tundra pull that rig with 2 bikes and all gear for a weekend? We got some hills here on my way to breezewood pa
6/7/2016 1:46pm
Mines the smaller 8'x16' model. It's only 2800 dry. Fully loaded it's probably around 4000(I think it's rated for around 7000).

The truck pulls and stops it with no issues. Biggest thing is the fuel economy goes right out the window, 35's don't help. I'd be lucky to get 250kms out of the 80L tank.

Which I think is about 8mpg
Katoomey
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6/7/2016 3:31pm
Those sure look nice!! What pricing for 7X20?
30-35k depending on options. Bought mine very lightly used for 27.

On paper, the price is crazy high, because the only advantage you'll notice from the numbers is weight, and if you were to compare one side by side at an RV dealer, you definately notice the lack of luxuryand amenities compared to something else.

What your paying for is bulletproof construction and utilitarian design/engineering. you could pull one across the roof of Africa and never have an issue. A steel/wood constructed RV wood crumble into a heap.
MXD
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6/7/2016 4:16pm
To Katoomy and bodean, did you guys add any extra cabinets to yours? I'm wondering how easy it is to hang shelves, overhead cabinets, helmet racks and stuff like that on these walls.
6/7/2016 4:24pm
I didn't. But it would be no different then anything else. Find the studs and mount them. The only real down side I've ever found is there isn't much insulation, so in colder weather expect the floor to be damn cold.
moto0852
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Draper, UT, USA
6/7/2016 4:34pm
MXD wrote:
The one reason I've avoided a toy hauler for so long is that I can't deal with the durability issues (mostly leaks and roof maintenance). These...
The one reason I've avoided a toy hauler for so long is that I can't deal with the durability issues (mostly leaks and roof maintenance). These seem like they would put all of my issues to rest. Does anyone have any experience with these? It looks like the perfect solution, am I missing something?

https://www.livinlite.com/toy-haulers.php
I'm interested what happened to you that makes you worried about leaks and roof maintainence?

I've had toyhaulers/enclosed trailers for 20+ years and never had any of those issues.
MXD
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6/7/2016 4:50pm
MXD wrote:
The one reason I've avoided a toy hauler for so long is that I can't deal with the durability issues (mostly leaks and roof maintenance). These...
The one reason I've avoided a toy hauler for so long is that I can't deal with the durability issues (mostly leaks and roof maintenance). These seem like they would put all of my issues to rest. Does anyone have any experience with these? It looks like the perfect solution, am I missing something?

https://www.livinlite.com/toy-haulers.php
moto0852 wrote:
I'm interested what happened to you that makes you worried about leaks and roof maintainence? I've had toyhaulers/enclosed trailers for 20+ years and never had any...
I'm interested what happened to you that makes you worried about leaks and roof maintainence?

I've had toyhaulers/enclosed trailers for 20+ years and never had any of those issues.
Maybe I've just been around guys who've had a run of bad luck but I've helped 2 friends rip theirs apart. One had to replace a rotted wall and the other a rotted roof which caused a rotted floor. They seem to always be chasing leaks and climbing on the roofs to reseal the seams. Another buddy with an RV just had to gut his bathroom due to a leak somewhere in the plumbing and that was a nightmare. A very close friend of mine owns a large RV dealership near me and he told me point blank, and I'll quote him verbatim, "these things are nothing more than a pile of stapled sticks rolling down the road. If I were you, I'd keep your cargo trailer". My personality is such that the instant something isn't fun anymore or becomes an excessive amount of aggravation, I'm out. I'm willing to pay a premium to ensure that I spend my time riding and not maintaining a trailer.
MXVet261
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6/7/2016 6:25pm
They look nice but for all aluminum they are a little heavy. I have a Forest River Hyperlite and it is lighter than the specs they show on those LivinLites for the same sized model.

FWIW, I don't know anyone that hasn't had to work out all the little kinks, bugs, and some poor workmanship of their camper. It took me a good season of usage to get all the little nuances of my Hyperlite worked out and all the little things fixed. If you take care of it and go over it regularly you will be in good shape. I'm also lucky because I can keep mine at home so that makes caring for it much easier.

Keep in mind that in many ways, making them lighter to make them half ton towable also makes them a little chinsy. Again, just stuff you learn to work through.

I pull mine with a Silverago 1500, no issue but I'm certainly not going to be hitting 70mph uphills in WV mountains....more like 45 mph.
MXD
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6/7/2016 6:43pm Edited Date/Time 6/7/2016 6:48pm
MXVet261 wrote:
They look nice but for all aluminum they are a little heavy. I have a Forest River Hyperlite and it is lighter than the specs they...
They look nice but for all aluminum they are a little heavy. I have a Forest River Hyperlite and it is lighter than the specs they show on those LivinLites for the same sized model.

FWIW, I don't know anyone that hasn't had to work out all the little kinks, bugs, and some poor workmanship of their camper. It took me a good season of usage to get all the little nuances of my Hyperlite worked out and all the little things fixed. If you take care of it and go over it regularly you will be in good shape. I'm also lucky because I can keep mine at home so that makes caring for it much easier.

Keep in mind that in many ways, making them lighter to make them half ton towable also makes them a little chinsy. Again, just stuff you learn to work through.

I pull mine with a Silverago 1500, no issue but I'm certainly not going to be hitting 70mph uphills in WV mountains....more like 45 mph.
I agree 100% with you about working out the bugs and maintaining it from there. The reason I was asking about the Livin Lite brand is because that's the one manufacturer other than the Work & Play line from FR that people seem to unanimously agree, requires the least amount of maintenance and are the most turn key out of all of them. I think with the W&P it's the cargo trailer frame and one piece aluminum roof and with these it's the fact that there is not one piece of wood in them.

Which Hyperlite do you have? I'm looking at the 7x20 which has a dry weight of something like 3500 pounds and a tongue weight of like 450 IIRC. That seems extremely light to me from what I've seen.
MXVet261
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6/7/2016 6:56pm
Funny you ask because I was just reviewing them again and I think I was comparing mine to the larger model on LivinLite and that is where my weight comment came from.

I have a HyperLite XLR 24HFS. Now that I compare correctly they are basically the same weight as LivinLite or even slightly more.

They certainly look like great toy haulers, I'd buy one.

I think another important point, for me at least, is to buy one that is sold at dealers local to you. Just makes it a lot easier to deal with any problems.
MXD
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6/7/2016 7:03pm
Buying local is huge. Dealerships will always work hard to help you out when you're loyal.
mxracer317
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Bluffdale, UT, USA
6/7/2016 9:07pm
This could be anymore timely. Looking at picking up a new Silverado 1500 and a toy hauler for the wife and two kids. Currently have a tundra crew Max and I was thinking that maybe I need to upgrade to a diesel? This is my daily driver so any thoughts on if I should stick to the Silverado 1500 or pick up a Duramax?
JB 19
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6/7/2016 9:13pm Edited Date/Time 6/7/2016 9:13pm
MXD wrote:
The one reason I've avoided a toy hauler for so long is that I can't deal with the durability issues (mostly leaks and roof maintenance). These...
The one reason I've avoided a toy hauler for so long is that I can't deal with the durability issues (mostly leaks and roof maintenance). These seem like they would put all of my issues to rest. Does anyone have any experience with these? It looks like the perfect solution, am I missing something?

https://www.livinlite.com/toy-haulers.php
1500's can have the power, but not the payload for a toy hauler. We have a Grey Wolf 27RR that puts about 900 pounds on the hitch. That's too much for a 1500. I tow it with a 3500 extended van with a 6.0 engine.

Tow vehicles are like garages, go as big as possible because later on you will probably wish you had went bigger.



6/7/2016 9:22pm


We found this on Craigslist a couple years ago for 20k triple slide 40ft 12 foot garage 2007 weekend warrior. Goin racin has never been more comfy.
casper
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San Diego, CA, USA
6/8/2016 9:11pm
mxracer317 wrote:
This could be anymore timely. Looking at picking up a new Silverado 1500 and a toy hauler for the wife and two kids. Currently have a...
This could be anymore timely. Looking at picking up a new Silverado 1500 and a toy hauler for the wife and two kids. Currently have a tundra crew Max and I was thinking that maybe I need to upgrade to a diesel? This is my daily driver so any thoughts on if I should stick to the Silverado 1500 or pick up a Duramax?
You have to look at the payload capacity and not so much to towing capacity to get a better idea. I have a Tundra and I pull a 23 foot Fleetwood Nitrous toy hauler and that's as big as I would go as I'm right at the limit of my payload when I fully load the trailer. If you look at the inside of your driver side door, it should show you the the total payload of the truck.

It reads 1,395 pounds for mine. Between me, my girlfriend, our dog, and a small bag or 2 in the truck, it leaves ~1,000 pounds of payload left. The tongue weight is part of the payload and toyhaulers have a higher tongue weight than normal trailers so use 15% of total trailer weight for tongue weight. So 1000/ x = 15/100 and you get a total trailer weight of ~6,650 pounds, which is waaay lower than the towing capacity of the truck of 10,000 pounds which most people use . My trailer has a claimed dry weight of 4,730 so I round that up to 5,000 because the claimed dry weight of trailers are almost always off on the lighter side and you have to add in all the extra stuff you put in like utensils and blankets and things. Now add 100 gallons of water (~850 pounds), 20 gallons of gas in the fuel station (~120 pounds) , 2 full size 4 strokes (~500 pounds) and 180 pounds of riding gear/food/beer/etc and I'm right at the capacity of 6,650. The water is the big variable and most times I tow with less than 1/3 full of water, and fill up when I get to where I'm going.

Fully loaded, the Tundra pulls nice. Plenty of power, and with a WD hitch and a brake controller, it drives nice. I get 8-9 MPG towing at 55-60mph.


IceMan446
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Sacramento, CA, USA
6/8/2016 11:22pm Edited Date/Time 6/8/2016 11:24pm
MXD wrote:
The one reason I've avoided a toy hauler for so long is that I can't deal with the durability issues (mostly leaks and roof maintenance). These...
The one reason I've avoided a toy hauler for so long is that I can't deal with the durability issues (mostly leaks and roof maintenance). These seem like they would put all of my issues to rest. Does anyone have any experience with these? It looks like the perfect solution, am I missing something?

https://www.livinlite.com/toy-haulers.php
Go with a diesel. A lot better fuel mileage while towing than with a gasser.

Especially the Chevy 3500 with the Allison transmission.

What some are forgetting here is the transmission. You can have the towing capacity and the payload to carry what ever you want but the transmission will be the weak link on a 1500.



MudPup545
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Imlay City, MI, USA
6/9/2016 1:38am
Make sure the stabilizer and tounge jacks are electric. Save a lot of cranking. Just push a button for easy up/down operation.
rob27ma
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Williamstown, MA, USA
6/9/2016 8:42am
mxracer317 wrote:
This could be anymore timely. Looking at picking up a new Silverado 1500 and a toy hauler for the wife and two kids. Currently have a...
This could be anymore timely. Looking at picking up a new Silverado 1500 and a toy hauler for the wife and two kids. Currently have a tundra crew Max and I was thinking that maybe I need to upgrade to a diesel? This is my daily driver so any thoughts on if I should stick to the Silverado 1500 or pick up a Duramax?
I just picked up a Hyper Lite XLR 27HFS and a 2016 Chevy 1500 Silverado and the set-up works great. Went camping with the wife and 2 kids for the first time last week and everything went pretty smoothly.

Here's a link the the hyper lite toy haulers if you want to check them out: http://forestriverinc.com/product-details.aspx?LineID=200&Image=5377
motosmith
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Washougal, WA, USA
6/9/2016 10:57am
Does anyone find RV's uncomfortable?

They all seem to have the same layout for the most part. Bed, bath and dinette.

The dinettes are incredible uncomfortable for any long term sitting. The only other option is laying in bed, which is obviously not convenient for hanging out.

Whats the solution for kicking back and relaxing? Definitely not those plywood dinettes.
Micahdogg
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6/9/2016 12:28pm
I'm mostly a dirtbike guy, but I'm trying to get my family more involved as my girls are now 2 and 5. Planning ahead and looking to purchase an Ecoboost f150 for the wife. What kind of hauler would you guys recommend that could fit a Rzr 800 or something? I've got a 86 250R that Dad could ride and the wife and girls would probably enjoy a RZR more than the utility quad since they could all 3 actually ride in that with a jump seat in the middle.

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