How to Fix SX

Mit12
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Lake Havasu City, AZ, USA
Edited Date/Time 5/10/2016 10:42am
What we need in the U.S is a true feeder system.

Riders should come from the amature nationals/Loretta Lynns to the road to SX (AX) for 1 to 4 years max. NO GOING BACK! When they make it to the 250 SX show they will spend up to 4 years max or 2 championships which ever comes first. Now they are off to the 450 SX series. NO GOING BACK!

This process would allow riders to grow in the sport at a more controlled pace.
This process would allow the factory teams to groom riders in feeder system rather than pushing them in the linons den before they are ready. Hopefully with less injuries.
This peocess would stop the "career" AX and 250 SX riders.
This peocess would make the 250 SX series filled with the best 250 SX riders in the country "NO FILLER RIDERS"

One final thing....TIMED MAINS!

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c_dub
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5/9/2016 11:44pm
I'm one of those that doesn't really care if SX ever becomes mainstream or not. But if anything needs fixing, it's the perception of SX. Start treating the riders and racing with the respect a real sport deserves and not a circus entertainment sideshow, and things will change for the better. It's stuck in this weird place between legit sport and an event/show.
5/10/2016 2:19am
Need's bigger stadiums to accommodate bigger tracks for the more powerful bikes these day's but that cant happen its impossible.

That or bring back 125's and have 250's as premier class which also will never happen.
JackLHyde
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Nice Oak, DE
5/10/2016 2:40am
c_dub wrote:
I'm one of those that doesn't really care if SX ever becomes mainstream or not. But if anything needs fixing, it's the perception of SX. Start...
I'm one of those that doesn't really care if SX ever becomes mainstream or not. But if anything needs fixing, it's the perception of SX. Start treating the riders and racing with the respect a real sport deserves and not a circus entertainment sideshow, and things will change for the better. It's stuck in this weird place between legit sport and an event/show.
I'm with you.
This and the ongoing mentality of looking for the "next big thing" in regards to riders. It seems to me everybody is only looking at riders coming up, but denying the talent that is proven. It's a pity that guys like Chisholm, Weimer and so on get left out with good rides.
MX45
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Phoenix, AZ, USA
5/10/2016 3:46am Edited Date/Time 5/10/2016 4:45am
Ok. Rather than post a meme (which is what I think this thread deserves), or post a link to the rules (which already have solutions in place to advance riders and prevent them from dropping back a class), lets just go ahead and break down what you are proposing...

*For my arguments I'll be referring to Supercross champions from 2000 onward.
*Foreign visits were ignored until the rider started a more committed US "rookie" season (Reed and Townley). (Jessemen counts because he rode 2 seasons outdoors season before his rookie SX.)

First, you want riders to come out of amateurs, go to AX, progress through SX 250s for a few years, then become 450 career riders.
[1] Isn't this already the structure in place most riders? Granted, the R2SX is relatively new, it is becoming more and more of a required prerequisite before competing in SX. Sure, there are some exceptions for extraordinary talent since the program started (Adam C. - though that maybe debatable).
[2] For a sport with such short and risky career opportunities, wouldn't you want the most capable amateur graduates to enter the pros asap? - for our entertainment, of course. Otherwise we wouldn't have had true Rookie SX champs like Travis Pastrana, James Stewart and Trey Canard.
*edit - I see now you never said R2SX should be mandatory to ride SX. Just 1-4 years max in AX. - I'll give my opinion on this point later.

Second, you want to prevent "career 250 riders" in sx.
[1] see rulebook
[2] So how many 250 champs have dropped down a class after moving up 'permanently'? Roncada, Tedesco, and Pourcel are all I can think of.
[3a] How about remaining in the class more than 2 championships or 4 years, whichever comes first, as you suggest? Well the "more than 2 championships" thing is covered in the rules I believe - can you name a 3 time SX regional champ?
[3b] So, how about riders remaining in SX regional c'ship more than 4 years? It has happened enough to take notice. There are [s]6[/s] 7 instances where c'ships were won by "veteran 250 riders" - Preston (2002), Tedesco (2005), Langston (2006), Tickle (2011), Hahn (2013), and Malcolm (4.5).
edit* and Weimer.(2006)
However, the average tenure of a regional rider in my data range is only 2.5 years.

Fun fact. Following the "4 years" rule, Tedesco's 2005 championship would have gone to 4th place Billy Laninovich because Ramsey (2nd) and Short (3rd) both had more than 4 years tenure by 2005. A similar situation would have happened in 2006 where's Langston's c'ship would skipped Short in 2nd and gone straight to RV who finished that season in 3rd.

[4] "Career AX riders" or veterans in AX. Eh. I disagree, but that's my opinion. I'll just drop some random names that I've enjoyed watching in AX.
Kyle Regal, Tyler Bowers, Matt Goerke, Chris Blose, Cody Gilmore, Bobby Kiniry, Ben Lamay, Damon Bradshaw, Buddy Antunez, Denny Stephenson,


As for your list of hopeful positive symptoms of these change (ie: grow sport, groom riders, best talent in 250's etc.)
I don't see it the way you do. The best talent in the 250's are those riders who have won championships. Ask any of these riders if their championship came easy or they were sandbagging - Roncada, Tedesco, Pourcel, Malcolm, Langston, Tickle, Hahn, Weimer, Reed, Townley, Jessemen.

Here's my data. Thanks to Racer X vault and the 4 Dr. Peppers I drank while posting this pointless argument.



* .5 years = start rookie year in MX season

edit* I agree on timed mains. That would be rad. Also mud races are rad. Also, old veterans who beat young kids at a the most physical sport on the planet are rad AF.

The Shop

1stSSPZ
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Lubbock, TX, USA
5/10/2016 5:39am
c_dub wrote:
I'm one of those that doesn't really care if SX ever becomes mainstream or not. But if anything needs fixing, it's the perception of SX. Start...
I'm one of those that doesn't really care if SX ever becomes mainstream or not. But if anything needs fixing, it's the perception of SX. Start treating the riders and racing with the respect a real sport deserves and not a circus entertainment sideshow, and things will change for the better. It's stuck in this weird place between legit sport and an event/show.
Exactly.
5/10/2016 8:25am
Put in a few double points races. Make the mains 20min + 2 laps
Flatliner
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5/10/2016 8:34am
I'd be happy with a simple , 20+2 for the 450's, and 15+2 for the 250's.

Its not broken, I can't wait for Minneapolis next year, that place will be rocking.
5/10/2016 9:11am
As far I'm concerned the 250 class is the premier class. I would rather watch the 250's scream around the track than watch 450's ride around the track in 2nd gear. I also belive you should be able to choose to race the 250 class for as long as you like if choose to.
hvaughn88
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5/10/2016 9:14am
It's not broken, it's just motorcycle racing.
5/10/2016 9:38am
c_dub wrote:
I'm one of those that doesn't really care if SX ever becomes mainstream or not. But if anything needs fixing, it's the perception of SX. Start...
I'm one of those that doesn't really care if SX ever becomes mainstream or not. But if anything needs fixing, it's the perception of SX. Start treating the riders and racing with the respect a real sport deserves and not a circus entertainment sideshow, and things will change for the better. It's stuck in this weird place between legit sport and an event/show.
Supercross hosts the 20 BEST RIDERS IN THE WORLD, yet we have a fucking dude on a Harley doing burnouts in the pit area during A practice!!! Is anyone with me on this? The riders are NOT treated like the 20 fastest men on the planet when our live broadcast gets ruined by some stupid shit like that, I honestly took that as a giant "fuck you" from monster/feld. How to fix SX: get rid of monster and get rid of Feld. This is just my opinion.
gt80rider
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5/10/2016 9:42am Edited Date/Time 5/10/2016 9:42am
The stands are still mostly full... A lot of people are glued to the TV broadcast each week... So I don't see the need for it to be fixed at all...

However... If I was being paid to make it even better, I would only do one thing.... Reduce Injuries!!!! It hurts the show and the sport for so many of its top names to constantly be on the sidelines... And yes, while the sport is inherently dangerous, much more can be done to make it safer.... From track design to requiring more safety gear, a lot more can be done to help keep our stars out on the track instead on in a hospital...
Silas444
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Mid-state, ME, USA
5/10/2016 10:02am
Heck, I'll throw my two cents in - I mean, why not? So here goes: does no one out there find it strange the 3/4ths of every Supercross event are merely qualifying races that contribute NOTHING to the actual point standings? Why do we do this? We don't do it outdoors, after all, now do we? All these silly qualifiers are the equivalent of someone going to a pro basketball game and having to watch the warm-up drills until the last half-hour when the REAL game starts, and that, to me, has always seemed completely ridiculous. Soooo - here's what I'd do: I'd have the riders get their starting position picks based on a combination of their qualifying practice times and where they are in the point standings. This simple change would free up an amazing amount of time, which would allow for a two-moto 450 race, a PERMANENT, HIGH-LEVEL 250 pro class where any racer can stay forever if they wish, and a 125cc "Rookie" class where the young bucks can come in and get some exposure and experience; and in the process, they'd contribute toward reviving the bike we all love and miss: the bless-ed 125cc race bike. Ahhh, how yummy.
dsmith
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way north, IN, USA
Fantasy
5/10/2016 10:05am Edited Date/Time 5/10/2016 10:06am
seriously longer lap times....steeper jumps ...haha
hvaughn88
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5/10/2016 10:07am
This is kind of off topic, but I've been really curious lately about attempting to figure out how much actual TV time each rider gets during each race. I'm just shooting from the hip here, but it almost seems like the 5-10 guys might actually get less TV time than the guys that finish further back. I would love to go back and actually time each guy for the entire season, but there's no way in hell I'm doing that.
kkawboy14
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5/10/2016 10:21am Edited Date/Time 5/10/2016 10:22am
Mit12 wrote:
What we need in the U.S is a true feeder system. Riders should come from the amature nationals/Loretta Lynns to the road to SX (AX) for...
What we need in the U.S is a true feeder system.

Riders should come from the amature nationals/Loretta Lynns to the road to SX (AX) for 1 to 4 years max. NO GOING BACK! When they make it to the 250 SX show they will spend up to 4 years max or 2 championships which ever comes first. Now they are off to the 450 SX series. NO GOING BACK!

This process would allow riders to grow in the sport at a more controlled pace.
This process would allow the factory teams to groom riders in feeder system rather than pushing them in the linons den before they are ready. Hopefully with less injuries.
This peocess would stop the "career" AX and 250 SX riders.
This peocess would make the 250 SX series filled with the best 250 SX riders in the country "NO FILLER RIDERS"

One final thing....TIMED MAINS!

I don't like the idea of getting punted from any Pro Class.

I do like the idea of increasing the SX series by 2 more races.
Have 2 more East meets West rounds, 3 total.
Increase the rider gates to 30.
20 minute mains in both classes, this would more prepare 250 riders for jumping to the 450. If they need to rob time for the tv, cut out some qualifying laps or cut out heats.
DA498
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Milliken, CO, USA
5/10/2016 10:22am
hvaughn88 wrote:
This is kind of off topic, but I've been really curious lately about attempting to figure out how much actual TV time each rider gets during...
This is kind of off topic, but I've been really curious lately about attempting to figure out how much actual TV time each rider gets during each race. I'm just shooting from the hip here, but it almost seems like the 5-10 guys might actually get less TV time than the guys that finish further back. I would love to go back and actually time each guy for the entire season, but there's no way in hell I'm doing that.
Ask mx45 to do it!Whistling
kkawboy14
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5/10/2016 10:26am
hvaughn88 wrote:
This is kind of off topic, but I've been really curious lately about attempting to figure out how much actual TV time each rider gets during...
This is kind of off topic, but I've been really curious lately about attempting to figure out how much actual TV time each rider gets during each race. I'm just shooting from the hip here, but it almost seems like the 5-10 guys might actually get less TV time than the guys that finish further back. I would love to go back and actually time each guy for the entire season, but there's no way in hell I'm doing that.
I like that the MXGP shows each rider getting set in the gate.
SX acts like they do a lot for the riders to get personal sponsors but they really do very little.
A pop up with a riders sponsors would also help when a particular rider is on the tv
BAMX
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5/10/2016 10:38am
c_dub wrote:
I'm one of those that doesn't really care if SX ever becomes mainstream or not. But if anything needs fixing, it's the perception of SX. Start...
I'm one of those that doesn't really care if SX ever becomes mainstream or not. But if anything needs fixing, it's the perception of SX. Start treating the riders and racing with the respect a real sport deserves and not a circus entertainment sideshow, and things will change for the better. It's stuck in this weird place between legit sport and an event/show.
JackLHyde wrote:
I'm with you. This and the ongoing mentality of looking for the "next big thing" in regards to riders. It seems to me everybody is only...
I'm with you.
This and the ongoing mentality of looking for the "next big thing" in regards to riders. It seems to me everybody is only looking at riders coming up, but denying the talent that is proven. It's a pity that guys like Chisholm, Weimer and so on get left out with good rides.
I agree with this and would add that the whole idea of different levels in pro racing is weird. I like the two classes because it adds to the amount of racing. That being said, I have no issue with guys staying in the lites class. It only brings up the level of competition. If the kids aren't good enough to make main events, they don't need to be in the main event.
Bultaco
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5/10/2016 10:40am Edited Date/Time 5/10/2016 10:45am
I would not want ANYONE telling me whether I can race AX or 250s or 450s. It should be the riders choice, within reason.

Treating Supercross like it is a bastard circus side show with the aforementioned problems and stunts will always keep supercross as a BCSS.
1911
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5/10/2016 10:42am
c_dub wrote:
I'm one of those that doesn't really care if SX ever becomes mainstream or not. But if anything needs fixing, it's the perception of SX. Start...
I'm one of those that doesn't really care if SX ever becomes mainstream or not. But if anything needs fixing, it's the perception of SX. Start treating the riders and racing with the respect a real sport deserves and not a circus entertainment sideshow, and things will change for the better. It's stuck in this weird place between legit sport and an event/show.
1stSSPZ wrote:
Exactly.
Yes

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