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I need a set of KYB forks for my KTM. Do you have any connections?
But seriously, what track do do the most testing at?
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Back in the early 80's you were testing a oil circulation system on the rear shock of the factory Kawasiki that had 2 lines going to the resivoir with check valves. I remember Goat saying he liked it a lot. What caused it to stop being used?
Also, can you explain how the different forces of a two stroke vs four stroke relate to suspension tuning. And last, what is a good method for a rider to use when adjusting his own setup. I have always wanted to have a documented range that I could toggle between based on terrain but not sure on the best process to test...
thank you for taking the time to answer questions. I have learned a lot just reading answers to other people's questions.
Now on to my questions.
1- I bought a second-hand set of Enzo Canada-built kit suspension - Factory PSF forks and two-piece shock with 16mm shaft (former Blair Morgan shock as I've been told) - for my YZ125. I have about 16 hours on them, and now I am almost ready to do my first rebuild on them. My question is in regards to wear parts like seals and bushings. Do regular KYB parts from production shocks/forks work (and if so, from which model?) or do I need special parts?
2- What is your take on vacuum bleeding of shocks? Is it something you do at Enzo, or do you simply bleed them the manual way?
3- I have been studying spring perches a bit lately and found out that in kit forks, KYB uses stock-like perches with smaller ports, where Showa uses longer tubes with a more complex circuit of ports and holes. Is there a difference in overall fork design between the two manufacturers that warrants this discrepancy in designs, or are they just different approaches to address the same aspect of fork tuning? In your experience, what are the advantages/disadvantages of using perches vs. tubes?
1- How do you test with the riders? Do you go sections by sections with differents obstacles and finish by an ''average'' setting? Does video replay help to understand more easily the suspension behavior instead of data acquisition for the rider and tuner?
2- Once the propre spring rate, sag and preload is set what is your tough on the OEM valving when used in the proper type of track?
3- Following question, what is the best bang for you buck concerning works like parts?
- Spring perch
- Piston
- DLC/Tin coating
- Kashima coating
4- Is there a reason why KYB/Showa doesn't used rebound separator valve by default?
Thanks
I've always wondered what the difference is between a "local" Enzo guy, and sending suspension to you. Same with other companies. Is there a difference in how it is done, or is it simply the components that matter?
Thank you!
Thanks for all you "doing"!
2. When vacuum bleeders first showed up, I saw the advantages of them, but wasn't completely convinced of their necessity because of the cost. I remember the YAMAHA race team was approached about using one, and they compared a shock built by hand and one built with a vacuum pump and I heard that there was no difference when they tested them on the dyno. But I think that there is always slight differences when building by hand, and when we started training new workers at Enzo, I knew that it would take some time to learn how to do them consistently, so we invested in a vacuum pump to take the guess work out of it. There are people that swear by them and insist that shocks cannot be built correctly by hand, but I am not one of them.
3.Spring perches and spring tubes are what I call secondary damping parts. THey provide damping force, but work independently from the cartridge damping, which I call primary damping. Both designs (perches and tubes) create different characteristics.
1. How often do pro riders have their seals, wipers, and bushings replaced in their forks? Do you feel these are the most neglected parts for the average racer?
2. Do you see electronic on-the-fly adjustments coming into the moto suspension world? I know Cannondale tested a spring centered electronically controlled valving system in a mountain bike fork where you could change compression mapping, rebound, ride height, etc. from an LCD screen mounted on the handlebars. I could see where that could save suspension guys a lot of time at the track and with testing, but there is a cost associated with everything (the Cannondale fork was deemed too expensive to mass produce).
Pit Row
This is the most interesting thread I've read........well ever.
I bought a set of 2010 KX450F forks off eBay that were done by Enzo. I put these on my 2016 KX450F because I just got tired of checking PSI all the time and like the feel of a spring fork. The only info I was given was that they had stiffer springs. I called the your California office about them to ask if I should send them in for a setup for me and was told "to give them a try first". That was awesome because many companies would have said, no we need to revalve them for you. They are the BEST forks I've ever used and I just bolted them on like I received them. They have the adjuster wheels on top that you install also. My question is that when you did those type of forks, did you install different spring seats to control bottoming on all your revalves, or just if they were asked for? I'm getting ready to service them and need to know how I would tell if they were changed.
In SSS forks you have a base valve and a mid-valve. How and when do they interact with each other. There is a tremendous amount of confusion about this when ever the subject comes up among racers. Can you shed some light on this for us?
I find that i cant find a happy medium . i can make the bike turn well with the slow reb . or go over bumps great with faster reb . just cant find a happy medium .
also would running faster reb or comp on the shock allow me to maybe get away running quicker reb on the front .and give me the front end feel i am looking for .
thanks a mill ,hope that makes sense ps iam 220 pounds on a rmz450 , to me the bike alway s feels low in the front ,i have a 6.0 spring in the back and 5.2 in the front
2. OEM valve settings are developed over months of testing by the factories, so it is usually very good. Many people believe that since it is "stock", it cannot be any good. But the companies do not just put OEM settings in the components that are just quick decisions. The companies test for long periods of time developing those settings, then the suspension companies do alot of bench testing making sure they are stable (a production setting must stay within a range of degradation to be a production spec). I used to give people an example of production specifications: If you bought two bikes, and heavily modified one and left the other stock, then put equal amount of hours on each, at the end of the year, the modified one would be a smouldering heap of crap, and the stock one would be worn out but still pretty good. This is because of all the preproduction testing done on production bikes. So to answer your question, OEM valve settings can work very well for a wide range of users.
3. Well, spring perches and aftermarket pistons are performance changing parts that are used to achieve specific requirements. Surface coatings on the structural parts just improve smooth performance, but in my opinion, the high cost doesn't always justify the gains unless you are a professional rider looking for all advantages. So really, works like parts don't really qualify as "bang for your buck" in my opinion. The best bang for your buck is setting up your suspension properly with correct spring rates and keeping it fresh. I know that isn't a "fun" answer, but it's how I feel.
4. Older KYB and Showa shocks have at one time or another come with rebound separator valve set ups and the basic feeling was that it limited the appeal to a wide range of riders. Some riders liked it, and others hated it. When it comes to anything production, the manufacturers always feel it is better to get a lot of riders saying "It's pretty good, OK", than half saying "I love it!" and the other half saying "I HATE IT!".
2. Anything is possible, because the motorcycle companies are always looking for an advantage to sell their bikes, but I doubt something like that would ever make it to a production bike. The majority of consumers aren't even willing to check the pressure in their air forks, do you see them messing with electronics that can change the performance of their suspension? As far as using things like this at the factory level, as I said, anything is possible, but personally I have no interest in it.
When going up two or three rates on fork springs does it make any sense to go to a lighter pressure spring? (SSS fork)
Post a reply to: Vital MX Forum QNA: Ross Maeda