HP difference 250F V 250T stroke?

[quote="SIMX":3u8oiy5p][quote:3u8oiy5p]Oh, and Malcom Stewart showing up on one of James' old factory bikes and winning a title on it goes to show you.[/quote:3u8oiy5p]

I guess you could always "claim" it, couldn't you?[/quote:3u8oiy5p]good idea, lol.

I hope the manufacturers sell out of every 250T they make. If they see demand, they will make more next year.

[quote="j100":22gddsmq]Bottom line, the rule is BS and needs to go away. Or, let them run those in the mod, but not the stock. Stock vr's stock is just not fair.[/quote:22gddsmq]

Just put your racers on 250T's and you won't have anything to cry about.

Cry? lol, you're quite the moron for making that statement. "my kid" won the 250 B stock class [on a 250F] at Whitney so I wasn't saying it was "unfair", because we got beat. I was voicing my opinion about what I saw you dumbass!

Such harsh words. Remind me to place a big order with you next week.

remind me to note your IQ when replying to a statement before you know your facts.

[quote="j100":1tcztcma]remind me to note your IQ when replying to a statement before you know your facts.[/quote:1tcztcma]

If you only knew. lol

if I only knew what? Listen, you made your smartass commnet about me "crying" and now you're all butt hurt saying if I only knew? This is hilarious.

[quote="j100":13r7fcn2]if I only knew what? Listen, you made your smartass commnet about me "crying" and now you're all butt hurt saying if I only knew? This is hilarious.[/quote:13r7fcn2]

Your pussy got hurt by a 250T. Cry me a river. lol

[quote="j100":38b55mui]those 2 strokes are out of line, big time. those things were road blocks at the Texas rounds and no way is it fair to line them up against the 250f's.[/quote:38b55mui]

Why is it not fair to run 250cc against 250cc?

Are not the four stokes modern technology and the 2 strokes old technology.

We need to stop affirmative action for four stokes.

[quote="j100":35fp7bt9]Bottom line, the rule is BS and needs to go away. Or, let them run those in the mod, but not the stock. Stock vr's stock is just not fair.[/quote:35fp7bt9]
hmm kinda like a 450cc machine and a 250t???? the ama did what it thought was the fairest thing which is cc for cc now yes the 250t has more power but the ability to deliver than power to the ground is important as well hence the 4 strokes have more "tractable" power in certain conditions not to mention the width of the power band also favors the 4 stroke... so with that said i agree with the rule as 4 stroke technology is not what it used to be back in the old days and 2 stroke technology has fallen by the way side in favor of developing the 4's which will only get better and lighter

Folks, the idea of racing an engine that produces power every other stroke rather than one that produces power every stroke, on an equal displacement level, is laughable. You can get more traction, you can get higher efficiency, but you just can't get enough power.

Suzuki is listening... 2009 RM125, fuel injected & Al frame:

[img:16upp4f2]http://www.onthepiperacing.com/uploads/gallery/albun96/4_G.sized.jpg[/i…]

[img:16upp4f2]http://www.onthepiperacing.com/uploads/gallery/albun96/3_G.sized.jpg[/i…]


more here; http://www.onthepiperacing.com/gallery/ ... me=albun96

That's very cool but it's not built by suzuki and it's not fuel injected.

[quote="j100":3hyyw2yq]

I was there and it was a nightmare going up against those guys all week. Lorettas won't favor the 2 strokes as much, because it's flat, but it's still going to be tough to get the start against them.

Bottom line, the rule is BS and needs to go away. Or, let them run those in the mod, but not the stock. Stock vr's stock is just not fair.[/quote:3hyyw2yq]

its just the same the as riding 450s verses 250 pingers. the guy on the 2 stroke may be a much better rider, but due to the ease of riding the 4 stroke the rider on the 450 has an easier time. the solution that everyone always offers is "well he could buy a 450 just like that" so its the same thing here. you dont like it, buy a 250t. the bike is faster, and your pocketbook will be happier.

[quote="CamP":3s8bdrtp]That's very cool but it's not built by suzuki and it's not fuel injected.[/quote:3s8bdrtp]
who makes the zuks motor?

[quote="CamP":2d73fpg8]That's very cool but it's not built by suzuki and it's not fuel injected.[/quote:2d73fpg8]

Did service honda make it? I would buy one of those if I knew where.

[quote="queen of spodes":119atbbs]Did service honda make it? I would buy one of those if I knew where.[/quote:119atbbs]

I don't know. It's a custom conversion for sure.

[quote="CamP":2z8e2qea][quote="queen of spodes":2z8e2qea]Did service honda make it? I would buy one of those if I knew where.[/quote:2z8e2qea]

I don't know. It's a custom conversion for sure.[/quote:2z8e2qea]

No kidding, check out the top-end engine mounts!

Besides the shorter distance the fuel mixture has to flow, and perhaps getting weight a little lower, what are the main advantages to case reed induction?

[quote="SEEMEFIRST":3865p51o][quote="CamP":3865p51o][quote="queen of spodes":3865p51o]Did service honda make it? I would buy one of those if I knew where.[/quote:3865p51o]

I don't know. It's a custom conversion for sure.[/quote:3865p51o]

No kidding, check out the top-end engine mounts!

Besides the shorter distance the fuel mixture has to flow, and perhaps getting weight a little lower, what are the main advantages to case reed induction?[/quote:3865p51o]
A straight intake path is always best. You can flow more velocity in a straight line than you can around bends.

That's about all I could come up with, I guess that's enough.

[quote="j100":1xvfg6m5]

Bottom line, the rule is BS and needs to go away. Or, let them run those in the mod, but not the stock. Stock vr's stock is just not fair.[/quote:1xvfg6m5]

Funny when the shoe was on the other foot all the four stroke zealots told the 125 guys to stop whining and learn how to ride.

[quote="j100":fxy5v4ze]Stock vr's stock is just not fair.[/quote:fxy5v4ze]
If true, why would Mod vs. Mod be fair?

Looking in the background, I would say that pic is from Europe( due to Anglo looking dude) or maybe Japan?

[quote="ProMed":3kl2g7h3][quote="j100":3kl2g7h3]Stock vr's stock is just not fair.[/quote:3kl2g7h3]
If true, why would Mod vs. Mod be fair?[/quote:3kl2g7h3]Because you can spend the money to make the mod bike competitive. stock versus stock you're loosing so much HP off the get go and it's not even close to being right.

I want to clarify my view on this situation; the fast guys will always win in my opinion, but it's the kids that are at best mid pack in the stock and mod classes that are riding a bike with an additional 10 + hp on the low end and in return that's giving them an advantage to race with the faster guys because of their bikes and not their talent.

Say what you will about hp curves and what-not, but at the end of the day average kids are doing better based off their bikes and not their talent and I feel that's wrong.

I don't want to hear the comparisons about factory and non factory riders, because at the end off the day they're both on 250f's. I agree not many things are fair, but to give a kid a 10 hp advantage in a class just doesn't sit right with me, sorry.

j100:

What did the 125 2-stroke riders do when the 4-strokes were given the displacement advantage? The went out and bought 4-strokes.

I suggest you go buy your boy a 250 2-stroke.

You guys are missing my point. WE WON THE 250B STOCK CLASS at Whitney!!! We don't need to go buy one, but that doesn't change the fact that the rules are BS and that's my point.

Yamaha sponsors our team and they don't support the rule, nor will they allow us to ride them so....

On another note; not 1 factory backed kid rode them at the nationals, at that's because the manufactures won't allow their kids to ride them. Well, Kyle Regal did and I am pretty sure he is the only one and he didn't win a title on it. Malcom Stewart did, but he's not a team green rider so I am just saying the rule in general is not right.

All you guys that are 2 stroke happy so be it. I agree the 4 strokes are pricey and I feel your pain, but it doesn't change the fact that at this time the 2 strokes are out dated and we have contracts to ride the current models. With that being said, I can still voice my opinion about what I feel is right from watching it go down first hand and I stick by my opinion.

Ok... the 250T has a HP advantage. What about torque? Does the F have an advantage?

One thing is certain, 250T and 250F is whole lot of closer than the 125T and the 250F. Remember folks, we were told that the F would be an option, not a replacement.

[quote="j100":27ellew2]You guys are missing my point. WE WON THE 250B STOCK CLASS at Whitney!!! .... With that being said, I can still voice my opinion about what I feel is right from watching it go down first hand and I stick by my opinion.[/quote:27ellew2]

Trying to manage the displacement to create an even playing field between the technologies isn't going to work. They need to keep it simple. And, that goes for the technology, too. The four stroke is a complicated nightmare that's been forced upon our sport, and, more importantly, on the hobbyists. My bet is there are more hobbyists than there are riders with contracts.

I say leave the displacement control the competition. Push it up through the pro ranks, and eventually you'll probably find more and more contract riders on smokers. Go talk to your sponsors...and make your kid one of them. Think of how easy your kid can keep a competitive edge when the better riders start to migrate to the smokers.

Lake Whitney 250 B stock

1st #44 CHRISTIAN CRAIG - YAM -------------- 4 stroke
YOUNGSVILLE, LA

2nd #69 JAMES JUSTICE - KAW ------------------ 4 stroke
COLUMBUS, OH

3rd #681 AUSTIN HOWELL - SUZ --------------- 2 stroke
How's this kids beating Trettel? Look at the Oak Hill results and you will see my point. Show me one time in this kids career that he's beat Trettel and I will agree with everyone.


4th #119 IAN TRETTEL - SUZ ----------- 4 stroke
SILVER SPRINGS, FL

5th #18 CODY ROBBINS - KAW not sure
HUNTERSVILLE, NC

6th #50 SEAN LIPANOVICH - HON -------- 2 stroke. Look at his results from Oak Hill and you will see my point again.
CAIRO, GA