B-A AMA decides "NO"

partialperson
Posts
410
Joined
11/6/2006
Location
Murphysboro, IL US
3/11/2008 12:48pm
Twizzler, I mention MX Sports because it is the premeire AMA Amateur National & is what more riders in my District or Wardy's District focus on. Sorry for the confusion & yes all Amateur Nationals should be lumped in. I heard one father recently say they were not moving up until after Branson which realisticly has no affiliation to the AMA. I wonder if the NMA or GNC will look into the AMA rider advancement or ignore it?
davis224
Posts
7377
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Cornland, IL US
Fantasy
3/11/2008 12:52pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:21pm
[quote="partialperson":15gnp4n3][quote="davis224":15gnp4n3]this is fucking retarded. If I see ryan holiday, it will be somewhat like that scene in open range where Kevin Costner shoots the guy in the forehead.[/quote:15gnp4n3]You may want to retract that staement just in case that scenario would play out, these little league parents, you know what I mean. Do you ever hit Casey anymore?[/quote:15gnp4n3]
I'm in ohio right now in school, and I'm coming home for spring break the last week of march and plan on hitting the last 2 weekends there if weather permits. Also, your screen name doesn't really give away who you are, so if you could reveal yourself that might ease a little confusion on my part on how you know I raced at casey a lot. <img class= " title="Smile">
3/11/2008 12:58pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:21pm
Justme, this process was started in 2000, 7- 8 years ago. To much to ask? but it was ok for us in the "local" districts to fend for ourselves and watch riders from other areas reap all the rewards of national exposure all the time avoiding a proven and effiecent advanement process.

Nothing with this was "hurried" nothing about this was "secret". It has been a slow process.


as far as "starting line cheating"........if this is a big issue where you are, simply go to the referee and ask them to change up the count, and or hold the Line a little longer til all the riders are on the gate as per that tracks rules. It's not rocket science, we address that at my track all the time and the reason it's a drop back gate is to make it fair. Putting a rule in the books to tell tracks to put in "backstops", or other items which then does not get enforced is not worth having in the book. Besides there alot of other issues to address which seem more likley to be viable then that rule.

by the way, my starting habits are nothing special, I line up outside, everytime, and i could have a rolling start and my 500 but still get a bad start with these reflexes. But fixing the start process is simple and easy to do, a starting gate won't "flex".
jay547
Posts
109
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
US
3/11/2008 1:01pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:21pm
[quote="Justme":655mjly4]

The cheaters that always have bothered me are the people who line up 10 feet from the starting gate to get a rolling start advantage on everyone else. Now they claim it's not cheating, but we all no MX is a standing start sport and we are all interested in fairness first, right?

[/quote:655mjly4]

if there is no object to prevent it, if it is not against track rules, and if the starter allows it, it is not cheating. i do it every chance i get.

The Shop

3/11/2008 1:06pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:21pm
Oh and you know lets not make this AMA thing "personal". i don't think "one" person made this decision, i think it was a group like they said, but not sure who and why it came out like this. Not sure this process is the correct way, is my opinion. Also the questions I have asked from them to answer.

We are already into our schedule. We have signed up over 1700 members, We have told riders "if your such and such your likely A class", now that is not true per this press release.

Anyone who was NOT advanced and then went ahead and rode A last fall because "they know they are going anyway" is screwed.

For instance i will throw a name out there................. Cody Stum. He is a great kid, moved to A last fall after LL, since he "was going to be moved". this as per my advice and others. Well today this kid who I consider his family "friends" got bad advice from me.................

it sucks


wardy
3/11/2008 1:12pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:21pm
The sad thing is, the mid tier motocrossers are the ones funding the MX Sports/Amateur Nationals. I'd bet, if you go back and look at the kids from LL in the 50 class say 4-5 years ago, a big majority will be the same kids this year in the 85 7/11 class. You go to these "area" LLQ and these days, there is nothing "area" about them.

So many of these kids with support have the pressure of making it to LL, and travel the country to do so. Everybody is looking for the easy way in, the back-up, the back-ups for the back ups, etc... these same kids mentioned above, will get in.

It's all of the "other" 20-30 kids per class chunking out $10 to MXS for the papers at areas, and the 35-40 kids (parents) shelling out another $30-40 bucks to MXS for Regional forms that are paying the way.

Can you imagine if they had the rule you can only qualify from your area, with one back-up. People would be buying rental properties all over the US, for an advantage. It will never happen.

Why? The cash flow would not be there.

Oh yea, I guess we've been brain washed. Heading to DuQuoin LLQ this weekend. Weird huh?
davis224
Posts
7377
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Cornland, IL US
Fantasy
3/11/2008 2:29pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:21pm
[quote="wardy":wd9qqio3]Oh and you know lets not make this AMA thing "personal". i don't think "one" person made this decision, i think it was a group like they said, but not sure who and why it came out like this. Not sure this process is the correct way, is my opinion. Also the questions I have asked from them to answer.

We are already into our schedule. We have signed up over 1700 members, We have told riders "if your such and such your likely A class", now that is not true per this press release.

Anyone who was NOT advanced and then went ahead and rode A last fall because "they know they are going anyway" is screwed.

For instance i will throw a name out there................. Cody Stum. He is a great kid, moved to A last fall after LL, since he "was going to be moved". this as per my advice and others. Well today this kid who I consider his family "friends" got bad advice from me.................

it sucks


wardy[/quote:wd9qqio3]
this was his first year on big bikes too, wasn't it?
3/11/2008 3:05pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:21pm
na he did really good on big bikes locally and is a stand up kid. he rode B in 2007, but only for about 2/3's of the season. Then decided since he was going anyway he was going to A. It was is first full season on a "big bike" but he did well and my hat is off to him. Hope he does great as one thing I know, riders who "don't" move when they should usually don't do much once the going gets tuff.
REFEREE
Posts
87
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Racing Capitol Of The World, IN US
3/11/2008 3:45pm Edited Date/Time 3/11/2008 5:19pm
Where does this press release appear on the AMA web-site? I cannot find it.

NFM.. found it on the MX SPORTS web-site...they are the AMA now.
KAWboy14
Posts
6502
Joined
12/31/2007
Location
Austin, TX US
3/11/2008 4:29pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:21pm
i am still waiting for you to show proof that the ama is worth 1) wasting the time to draft a letter to them 2) waste time at congress with them 3) waste sending them $1


[quote="wardy":sx524879]i am drafting a letter right now. Simply put, how can " group" of people who we have no clue "who" they are just say "that or those rules" won't apply. This is a process by which ama board of trustess voted to Approve these rules. This is a process which AMA just now is "feeling the heat" that most of us that do this on the district level have felt for years. Now because a rule change affected a few riders its not valid?

I never thought I would see the day that this would happen. But it seems clear that the National Qualifying and national races are more "important" then us smucks out here doing this every year for a long time.

Advancement isn't easy, they will threaten you, they will try to bribe you, they will yell and scream and call you names. Been there done that for 17+ years, but you have to follow the dam rules. You have to take "special" consideration on a individual basis as per the rules. Once you do not follow or enforce the rules you make the whole process suspect.

this is a bad decision.

by the way i am on the executive committee who should have been involved with this, they never included me, or asked me. even NOT Following the rules, wasn't decided with the process in place to do that.[/quote:sx524879]
motomom4
Posts
176
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Murrieta, CA US
3/11/2008 5:58pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:21pm
[quote="partialperson":q2dygl4i]Twizzler, I mention MX Sports because it is the premeire AMA Amateur National & is what more riders in my District or Wardy's District focus on. Sorry for the confusion & yes all Amateur Nationals should be lumped in. I heard one father recently say they were not moving up until after Branson which realisticly has no affiliation to the AMA. I wonder if the NMA or GNC will look into the AMA rider advancement or ignore it?[/quote:q2dygl4i]
They will ignore it, they are more leniant than the AMA, at least I know NMA is.
rocrac
Posts
2454
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Indianapolis, IN US
3/11/2008 6:00pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:21pm
[quote="motomom4":1akgrgmt][quote="partialperson":1akgrgmt]Twizzler, I mention MX Sports because it is the premeire AMA Amateur National & is what more riders in my District or Wardy's District focus on. Sorry for the confusion & yes all Amateur Nationals should be lumped in. I heard one father recently say they were not moving up until after Branson which realisticly has no affiliation to the AMA. I wonder if the NMA or GNC will look into the AMA rider advancement or ignore it?[/quote:1akgrgmt]
They will ignore it, they are more leniant than the AMA, as far as NMA goes I don't think they care what class you race as long as they get their money.[/quote:1akgrgmt]Yep go look at the Ponca results in the C class if want a good laugh.
3/11/2008 6:16pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:21pm
Not that it matters to me, but the ones that are really getting screwed are the "C" riders that are moved up that now have to race against the "B" riders that should be in "A". If they are competitive this year they will get moved up to "A" next year (talking about the "new" B riders), losing their chance at a title because the "redshirt" B riders got to ride the class 2 years in a row...
motomom4
Posts
176
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Murrieta, CA US
3/11/2008 6:39pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:21pm
[quote="yak651":37pq9se5]Not that it matters to me, but the ones that are really getting screwed are the "C" riders that are moved up that now have to race against the "B" riders that should be in "A". If they are competitive this year they will get moved up to "A" next year (talking about the "new" B riders), losing their chance at a title because the "redshirt" B riders got to ride the class 2 years in a row...[/quote:37pq9se5]I agree, I wish they had a beginner, novice, intermediate and expert class in the amatuer ranks for big bikes. The intermediate class is generally much faster than the A class anyways, I think a "C" rider that has been moved up to "B" may as well move up to "A" and race locally, if they are old enough, they probably would do much better in the "A" class, than racing all the factory "B" riders. At least they could make a little money and win some contingency.
sc961
Posts
2242
Joined
12/11/2006
Location
Hutchinson, MN US
3/11/2008 8:10pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:22pm
Wardy, it's unfortunate the AMA didn't take advantage of this one opportunity to recoup some membership equity and follow through with the rules they put in place.

We along with others have been testing the advancement program, and although not perfect have found it to be more than fair.

The AMA made find themselves in a value proposition problem in the near future. There are more and more questions about what does the AMA bring to the local district table. The answers are getting harder to sell to the local membership. With this recent direction, it comes around to not following their own rules for amatuer competition.

As for MX Sports, I don't know what to think about them. I've asked about sound testing for the past 3 years. I get a similar answer each time. "We have something in store for the upcoming season". What I've seen is that if the local qualifier tracks don't have a process in place, which most don't, nothing happens. I haven't witnessed any pro-active sound testing at Loretta's. Maybe it's happening, and I just missed it. Another issue that the factories, and after market people are more than likely driving since the technology hasn't been forced to happen.
andymoto
Posts
4771
Joined
11/28/2007
Location
Carmichael, CA US
3/11/2008 11:14pm
AMA=snapperheads.
Important enough issue that the entire MX membership should be allowed to vote on the matter.
Now that the sale of all Pro Racing except SX is done deal; sounds like same ol' AMA.
sc961
Posts
2242
Joined
12/11/2006
Location
Hutchinson, MN US
3/12/2008 5:18am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:22pm
[quote="andymoto":1coa5mo9]AMA=snapperheads.
Important enough issue that the entire MX membership should be allowed to vote on the matter.
Now that the sale of all Pro Racing except SX is done deal; sounds like same ol' AMA.[/quote:1coa5mo9]

I don't agree with the membership voting deal. There are more than enough local AMA representatives that are involved in the decision making process, like Wardy and many others.

Same issues come up at the local district levels. When things of contraversy happen locally, there are people the local members have voted into power that need to decide the best direction.

The problem is, all these AMA volunteers "congress" were not involved in this decision making process. People that don't normally deal with advancement issues at a local level decided what was best for everyone with very limited experience. I think we are talking about an overall system that is suppose to advance riders across the US.

We've run across issues of these young kids coming off mini's and stepping right onto the seat of a 450, but then again where did the issues of the 450 come from?????????
jay547
Posts
109
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
US
3/12/2008 6:51am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:22pm
[quote="rocrac":ojwg5byj][quote="motomom4":ojwg5byj][quote="partialperson":ojwg5byj]Twizzler, I mention MX Sports because it is the premeire AMA Amateur National & is what more riders in my District or Wardy's District focus on. Sorry for the confusion & yes all Amateur Nationals should be lumped in. I heard one father recently say they were not moving up until after Branson which realisticly has no affiliation to the AMA. I wonder if the NMA or GNC will look into the AMA rider advancement or ignore it?[/quote:ojwg5byj]
They will ignore it, they are more leniant than the AMA, as far as NMA goes I don't think they care what class you race as long as they get their money.[/quote:ojwg5byj]Yep go look at the Ponca results in the C class if want a good laugh.[/quote:ojwg5byj]

i raced 40+ non-pro at ponca last year and three guys got disqualified for being experts so apparently someone at NMA does care.
3/12/2008 6:58am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:22pm
[quote="REFEREE":oj0nxuxn]Where does this press release appear on the AMA web-site? I cannot find it.

NFM.. found it on the MX SPORTS web-site...they are the AMA now.[/quote:oj0nxuxn]
When was the last time MX Sports wasn't "AMA"??
3/12/2008 7:16am
So C-B you must move up. B-A dont worry about it. So say hello to 6 gates of B riders at the local tracks. 2 novice riders and 4 A riders. When and how do these C rider move up to B?
3/12/2008 7:19am
Advancement happens Jan 1. So they are supposed to be already moved up.
3/12/2008 10:12am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 6:22pm
dont' kick me in the head for this,

but it's like a star trek analogy.

the needs of the "many" outweigh the needs of the few.

The problem here is as always, failure to communicate. Riders and "teams" or who ever will threaten to quit, they will yell, they will miss a race or two. They will get promoters to side with them, they will manipulate the process to their best advantage......it's what they do. Steve Carnigie said it many times, " if they can't beat you on the track, they will beat you with the rule book"........

But the big picture isn't a few younger riders or riders who should have been advanced and may or may not sit out or quit. IT's about what is fair to ALL the riders IN all the local, national, and regional areas. We have at most 30 primadona riders who have clout with whoever making noise. I would ALWAYS call thier bluff and say ok, sit out, don't race. After being homeschooled, after putting all this effort into a sport they claim to "love" they just will "quit",.......nope won't happen. They won't they will suck it up and do fine. If there are special cases then appeal it.

Bottom line, is what was fair and just advancement which got changed somewhat now has been totally undermined and will take time to rebuild once again.

WE should make a list. Post it, let riders appeal, then go to next year. the whole process did not get worked out correctly and was never allow to be followed thru.

For every rider out there that may or may not be advanced correctly, there are 100 riders out there or more who EXPECT us to do this right, and do it every year. They expect us to lead by example, they expect and can accept mistakes if we do everything we can to correct them. What they don't tolerate is not trying.

I hope i can work on this more with the "powers to be" and get this resolved, I am afraid alot of damage is done and not sure what can happen this season. It's never to 'late" to do the right thing.

Post a reply to: B-A AMA decides "NO"

The Latest