MTB Advances Ahead of Moto..

NHtoWA421
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Bremerton, WA, USA
4/15/2016 1:18pm
Buying bikes off of those friend who have to have the latest and greatest every year, or dealers which cant move these "obsolete" bikes does have its perks.

heres part of my quiver.


yak651
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9085
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Appleton, WI, USA
Fantasy
4/15/2016 1:30pm
NHtoWA421 wrote:
Buying bikes off of those friend who have to have the latest and greatest every year, or dealers which cant move these "obsolete" bikes does have...
Buying bikes off of those friend who have to have the latest and greatest every year, or dealers which cant move these "obsolete" bikes does have its perks.

heres part of my quiver.


I've been "out" of the biking scene for a while, but in the early '00 I was really into road and mountain biking. My friends all worked at local bike shops, I would buy their one year old full dura ace or XTR equipped bikes for basically half of msrp. The margins on those things must've been unreal...Glad i'm not into it as much now due to $$ and my "vintage" bikes still do the job.
rosebud441
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Bellingham, WA, USA
4/15/2016 1:34pm
rosebud441 wrote:
here are my rides.. love every one of them, and worth every penny [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2016/04/15/131893/s1200_skeers_trail_049.jpg[/img]
here are my rides.. love every one of them, and worth every penny


peelout wrote:
did the dealership throw in a 24 pack of condoms and some granola?
No dude, i bought them all slightly used and saved the bank, that's my point..
and my chick hates condoms thank god, but i do like granolaSmile
NHtoWA421
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Bremerton, WA, USA
4/15/2016 1:42pm
yak651 wrote:
I've been "out" of the biking scene for a while, but in the early '00 I was really into road and mountain biking. My friends all...
I've been "out" of the biking scene for a while, but in the early '00 I was really into road and mountain biking. My friends all worked at local bike shops, I would buy their one year old full dura ace or XTR equipped bikes for basically half of msrp. The margins on those things must've been unreal...Glad i'm not into it as much now due to $$ and my "vintage" bikes still do the job.
the margins are pretty high. it varies depending on the brand of component/bike (same as "at cost" motorcycle parts). but for reference, that black bike i posted above (the session) was bought new from a dealer as a left over. it was a $4800 retail, i offered $2400, and they sold it to me with the only stipulation being "okay, but you have to pay tax"

The Shop

mx510
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1993
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Gig Harbor, WA, USA
4/15/2016 1:51pm
rosebud441 wrote:
No dude, i bought them all slightly used and saved the bank, that's my point.. and my chick hates condoms thank god, but i do like...
No dude, i bought them all slightly used and saved the bank, that's my point..
and my chick hates condoms thank god, but i do like granolaSmile
Granola is a requirement living in Bellingham right? Patchouli much? lol
rosebud441
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Bellingham, WA, USA
4/15/2016 2:10pm
rosebud441 wrote:
No dude, i bought them all slightly used and saved the bank, that's my point.. and my chick hates condoms thank god, but i do like...
No dude, i bought them all slightly used and saved the bank, that's my point..
and my chick hates condoms thank god, but i do like granolaSmile
mx510 wrote:
Granola is a requirement living in Bellingham right? Patchouli much? lol
Ha, Gotta love Bellingham.. One thing for sure its reinforcing itself as the MTB mecca of the the NW

Weed and bike shops on every corner!!
Phillip_Lamb
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ORANGEVALE, CA, USA
4/15/2016 3:46pm
Homey55 wrote:
Who here has a $10k MTB? Who here has a FE450? We get what we can afford and we still have just as much fun on...
Who here has a $10k MTB?
Who here has a FE450?

We get what we can afford and we still have just as much fun on what we have. My $750 Raleigh does just fine on the weekend shuttle up Mt. Ashland and my 15 year old Gack handles Pump Track/Dirt Jump/BMX duties just fine! I sure miss the desert and my XR440 though.

I do believe the MTB industry offers better technology though. The average Joe has access to what 99% of the pros have. You can't say the same for MX.







there is a factor everyone is missing and that is the cost of tech and materials. A MTB could successfully use more exotic materials because A not as much is needed, B there is less stress on parts in large part due to the weight. a MTB ~20-40 lbs? mx 200-240.

plus a lot of maintenance goes into the engine already, if they had more fragile bits on the rest of the bike everyone would stop fixing them because the would keep breaking. Additionally the average joe doesnt need a bike that only lasts for 1 event. they need the same bike to last for a few years, so things need be built with more durable materials.

so if you look at how much it cost to do this on a MTB, to do the same on a MX it would have to be a larger more durable unit, which would raise the cost significantly.

all that aside people have modified bike to have electronic shifters already. Mostly for guys who are paralyzed. theyll use the Rekluse auto clutch and a electronic shifter designed for street bikes
race
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USA
4/15/2016 5:18pm
In MTB, the old conundrum of "Strong, Light, Cheap ... pick any two, but only two" applies much more so than in MX. As this applies to every component on the bike the prices are set accordingly.

Also, in the mtb world you are free to mix and match practically any part. The fact that complete bikes are sourced from a whole slew of component suppliers, who also sell to the public, probably adds to the cost as well. MX does that to a much smaller extent but it's more or less invisible to the customer.

I do think mtb has proceeded at a much more rapid development rate than MX over the last 15 years. The development of suspension, frame geometry, disc brakes, etc. has been mind-boggling.

Way back in '99, I had a Fox shock (rear coil) on my DH bike that allowed me to sweep thru damping changes from zero all the way up to full lock-out via a thumb lever on the bars. Who wouldn't want to be able to have a similar range of clicker adjustments available available like that on their MX bike? Always wondered why they haven't done that. They could do it mechanically ( w/o any electronics ) and keep it fairly inexpensive. Maybe we'd hear a lot less about riders complaining they had the wrong settings for an entire moto ...

Rosebud - fantastic whip into the camera on your sig! That you? Where is that?

Did you ever race the Snoqualmie DH back in the day?



4/15/2016 5:27pm
Mountain biking is just a big money train. More so than any other hobby like that, skiing, Moto etc. Carbon this and that and electronics and...
Mountain biking is just a big money train. More so than any other hobby like that, skiing, Moto etc. Carbon this and that and electronics and dropper posts.....a top end carbon trail bike costs like 12 G'!!!! And it doesn't even come with pedals! Haha
i think I'll wait until the next big recession hits (we're due for one - we've just been pumping air back into the bubble the last 7 years). Bikes that originally cost $12G will be going for $2G and will have hardly any time on them. Be cautious when others are bold, be bold when others are cautious.
peelout
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Ogden, UT, USA
4/15/2016 11:04pm
Mountain biking is just a big money train. More so than any other hobby like that, skiing, Moto etc. Carbon this and that and electronics and...
Mountain biking is just a big money train. More so than any other hobby like that, skiing, Moto etc. Carbon this and that and electronics and dropper posts.....a top end carbon trail bike costs like 12 G'!!!! And it doesn't even come with pedals! Haha
TbonesPop wrote:
i think I'll wait until the next big recession hits (we're due for one - we've just been pumping air back into the bubble the last...
i think I'll wait until the next big recession hits (we're due for one - we've just been pumping air back into the bubble the last 7 years). Bikes that originally cost $12G will be going for $2G and will have hardly any time on them. Be cautious when others are bold, be bold when others are cautious.


kzizok
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USA
4/16/2016 7:42am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 7:44am
ML512 wrote:
Air forks are cheaper than spring forks. Wink
Yeah, but getting them to market with testing, R&D, etc. brings extra cost that has to be recovered that would not have neccessarily happened with a current product. But, no matter the details I think your point of how much do we want our bikes to cost is the real issue. I mean mtn bikes can already be more expensive than mx bikes.
ti473
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Arlington Heights, IL, USA
4/16/2016 8:44am
You guys only have 3 bikes???
TeamGreen
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Thru-out, CA, USA
4/16/2016 10:11am
You guys know a top end Mountain bike can be 10K right? I don't think we need bikes doubling in price in MX. Having said that...
You guys know a top end Mountain bike can be 10K right? I don't think we need bikes doubling in price in MX. Having said that I read an article explaining that costs are driven so high in MTB by OEMs sourcing components from name brand companies rather than making them themselves like they do in MX.
I laugh my Ass Off at what people pay for a...

Bicycle.

Better, yet, I laugh even harder when I see someone with a garage full of Ridonkulous Bicycles BITCHING ABOUT HOW EXPENSIVE HIS MOTORCYCLE IS...

Bwahahahahahahaa
Phillip_Lamb
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ORANGEVALE, CA, USA
4/16/2016 10:43am
race wrote:
In MTB, the old conundrum of "Strong, Light, Cheap ... pick any two, but only two" applies much more so than in MX. As this applies...
In MTB, the old conundrum of "Strong, Light, Cheap ... pick any two, but only two" applies much more so than in MX. As this applies to every component on the bike the prices are set accordingly.

Also, in the mtb world you are free to mix and match practically any part. The fact that complete bikes are sourced from a whole slew of component suppliers, who also sell to the public, probably adds to the cost as well. MX does that to a much smaller extent but it's more or less invisible to the customer.

I do think mtb has proceeded at a much more rapid development rate than MX over the last 15 years. The development of suspension, frame geometry, disc brakes, etc. has been mind-boggling.

Way back in '99, I had a Fox shock (rear coil) on my DH bike that allowed me to sweep thru damping changes from zero all the way up to full lock-out via a thumb lever on the bars. Who wouldn't want to be able to have a similar range of clicker adjustments available available like that on their MX bike? Always wondered why they haven't done that. They could do it mechanically ( w/o any electronics ) and keep it fairly inexpensive. Maybe we'd hear a lot less about riders complaining they had the wrong settings for an entire moto ...

Rosebud - fantastic whip into the camera on your sig! That you? Where is that?

Did you ever race the Snoqualmie DH back in the day?



I think there is more avenue's that can be taken with bicycles. a bicycle doesn't doesn't take as much weight and doesn't have the demands a dirt bike takes on (or can, not everyone max's their bike out) so deviating from norms and developing something more unique kinda like Cannondales Lefty fork would be much harder.

ultimately thought the biggest issue is the customer base, it just isn't there, back the 70's and 80's there was much more regular development than today and more unique prototypes being tested like the Ribi forks.

another limitation is the Production rule in the pros. this limits the manufacturer to stock frame and cases so development is limited, further you cant build a MX from just a frame and parts (new) maybe you could but it would be really expensive and the industry isn't quite set up to do this easily

also not sure where a lock out on a shock would help? unless your more eluding to range of adjustment. in which case I've seen this in ohlins and marzocchi stuff. but this kind of option would be nice
Jimmy_Sloan
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Oak Harbor, WA, USA
4/16/2016 10:58am
MR. X wrote:
My dirtbikes moves without me peddling, I'd say dirtbikes are more advanced, when are those mountain bike guys gonna realize they're working too hard.
Grinning Grinning
Fat Fingers
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Auckland, NZ
4/16/2016 3:16pm
It is way cheaper to build yourself a super trick mtb than a trick mx race bike. There is no comparison between the two. Once built, maintenance is low for your mtb, tyres, brake pads, grips are cheap and suspension service is also super cheap especially if you do it yourself.

Throw in a massive market plus cashed up overweight dudes in their 30s, 40s, 50s who want to shave 500g off their ride and you got some serious r & d going on.
7eleven
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655
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Location
Aliso Viejo, CA, USA
4/16/2016 5:36pm
Honestly, it's all about your components w/ the bicycles. Carbon frame is mandatory for XC, then build out the rest how you like it. The buy-in is steep, but the upkeep is so minimal compared to moto. lightweight is mandatory, so high-end parts are your goto.
Below is a shot from last weeks race in Fontana, i'm on my 5th season of racing and starting my 3rd on this Felt. In moto, this bike would be roached! $12k invested... Felt Edict 9, Enve wheels, RS-1 fork, Shimano XTR groupo.

dmac1
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Location
USA
4/16/2016 6:04pm
You guys know a top end Mountain bike can be 10K right? I don't think we need bikes doubling in price in MX. Having said that...
You guys know a top end Mountain bike can be 10K right? I don't think we need bikes doubling in price in MX. Having said that I read an article explaining that costs are driven so high in MTB by OEMs sourcing components from name brand companies rather than making them themselves like they do in MX.
Well....we've bought a couple bikes where the manufacturer made a one-off themself. Then they abandon that approach when it doesn't work as well as a name brand, then you, the bike owner, end up with a very expensive piece of junk.

Examples? Specialized 2008 Enduro with their proprietary forks and head tube...which nothing else works with. My Maverick with ML8 fork. They went broke and the spare parts are about gone.

I'd rather have name brand components that can be upgraded. You don't gotta buy the highest end componentry when you buy a new bike...as a matter of fact, I prefer not to cuz then I've got something I can make better and it will make me feel like I've bettered my bike.

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