MotoGP drama....

10/28/2015 1:42am
kongols wrote:
Wow, as I said- a wet dream. Total disregard for any evidence.
are you saying there is no evidence of pushing him wide?

Rossi admitted he did it, confessions are pretty dam good evidence most of the times, and the video shows him looking at him and pushing him wide, and brake checking him while doing so,

I get that you disagree with it, but how is there no evidence?
c_dub
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10/28/2015 1:43am
scott_nz wrote:
MIke Webb has never said that MM turned into Rossi, its been said on here a bit, but i have not seen it said by Webb...
MIke Webb has never said that MM turned into Rossi, its been said on here a bit, but i have not seen it said by Webb,

if you are talking about the corner where MM goes down, then he was not holding his line, he was avoiding Rossi, and i think he tired to turn underneath him, not into him as some people believe on here, but thats only my thoughts, in the end only MM knows what he was trying to do, and I don't think he had the time to come up with the elaborate plans that have been proposed on here either,

I agree Mike has never said that. I linked to the article where I was pulling the quotes. He said that MM "did not make contact". Myself, and others, are saying based on the video that MM did make contact. Apparently Mike see's it differently.

I've not heard that theory about him trying to turn underneath him. I'm not seeing it but who knows.
kiwifan
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10/28/2015 1:44am
kongols wrote:
Wow, as I said- a wet dream. Total disregard for any evidence.
scott_nz wrote:
are you saying there is no evidence of pushing him wide? Rossi admitted he did it, confessions are pretty dam good evidence most of the times...
are you saying there is no evidence of pushing him wide?

Rossi admitted he did it, confessions are pretty dam good evidence most of the times, and the video shows him looking at him and pushing him wide, and brake checking him while doing so,

I get that you disagree with it, but how is there no evidence?
did you get a new '16 KXF450 Scott? I am pretty happy with mine, handles dare I say it like my '15 Honda, feels light and getting good results with it.
10/28/2015 1:47am Edited Date/Time 10/28/2015 1:48am
kongols wrote:
Wow, as I said- a wet dream. Total disregard for any evidence.
scott_nz wrote:
are you saying there is no evidence of pushing him wide? Rossi admitted he did it, confessions are pretty dam good evidence most of the times...
are you saying there is no evidence of pushing him wide?

Rossi admitted he did it, confessions are pretty dam good evidence most of the times, and the video shows him looking at him and pushing him wide, and brake checking him while doing so,

I get that you disagree with it, but how is there no evidence?
kiwifan wrote:
did you get a new '16 KXF450 Scott? I am pretty happy with mine, handles dare I say it like my '15 Honda, feels light and...
did you get a new '16 KXF450 Scott? I am pretty happy with mine, handles dare I say it like my '15 Honda, feels light and getting good results with it.
i have ridden 3 times in 4 months so have not bothered, i brought a wakeboard boat for summer so will stay on the 15 for a bit, rode my brother and laws one in a race at cambridge and loved it,

I am ment to be racing summer x in Whakatane against a mate coming back from the gold coast, so i better get on the bike soon,

The Shop

kiwifan
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10/28/2015 1:49am
scott_nz wrote:
are you saying there is no evidence of pushing him wide? Rossi admitted he did it, confessions are pretty dam good evidence most of the times...
are you saying there is no evidence of pushing him wide?

Rossi admitted he did it, confessions are pretty dam good evidence most of the times, and the video shows him looking at him and pushing him wide, and brake checking him while doing so,

I get that you disagree with it, but how is there no evidence?
kiwifan wrote:
did you get a new '16 KXF450 Scott? I am pretty happy with mine, handles dare I say it like my '15 Honda, feels light and...
did you get a new '16 KXF450 Scott? I am pretty happy with mine, handles dare I say it like my '15 Honda, feels light and getting good results with it.
scott_nz wrote:
i have ridden 3 times in 4 months so have not bothered, i brought a wakeboard boat for summer so will stay on the 15 for...
i have ridden 3 times in 4 months so have not bothered, i brought a wakeboard boat for summer so will stay on the 15 for a bit, rode my brother and laws one in a race at cambridge and loved it,

I am ment to be racing summer x in Whakatane against a mate coming back from the gold coast, so i better get on the bike soon,
Yeah shes a awesome bike thats for sure!

lol yes you will wanna beat him !!!! :-)
c_dub
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10/28/2015 2:04am Edited Date/Time 10/28/2015 2:07am
kiwifan wrote:
I am not the race directors/promoters/etc...judging by the penalty it clearly says he was penalised for pushing MM wide so .......what do you think???
It's clearly more than just pushing him wide Kiwi (which it should be...if they're going to start penalizing racers for pushing wide...well, they're going to have their hands full with protests at every race and an awful product to boot). Again, Mike's words, not mine.

That's why I think he is shooting himself in the foot. You can see Mike's own words in this link. http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2015/10/26/sepangclash-race-direction-ver…

He said "“The decision is that Race Direction has imposed three penalty points on Valentino Rossi for irresponsible riding, that is, deliberately causing contact. Deliberately running wide in a corner in order to try and force another rider off line. The result was a crash and so it’s irresponsible riding causing a crash and for that we have imposed three penalty points on Rossi."

To sum Mike's words up "irresponsible riding causing contact resulting in a crash" is why VR was penalized. Why he threw in the line about running him and forcing him off line is beyond me. And will come back to bite him in the ass in the future in my opinion. I just don't see how VR caused/initiated the contact when all MM had to do was let up and not turn into him. Who the hell knows for sure except Vale and Marc.
Crush
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10/28/2015 2:38am
c_dub wrote:
It's clearly more than just pushing him wide Kiwi (which it should be...if they're going to start penalizing racers for pushing wide...well, they're going to have...
It's clearly more than just pushing him wide Kiwi (which it should be...if they're going to start penalizing racers for pushing wide...well, they're going to have their hands full with protests at every race and an awful product to boot). Again, Mike's words, not mine.

That's why I think he is shooting himself in the foot. You can see Mike's own words in this link. http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2015/10/26/sepangclash-race-direction-ver…

He said "“The decision is that Race Direction has imposed three penalty points on Valentino Rossi for irresponsible riding, that is, deliberately causing contact. Deliberately running wide in a corner in order to try and force another rider off line. The result was a crash and so it’s irresponsible riding causing a crash and for that we have imposed three penalty points on Rossi."

To sum Mike's words up "irresponsible riding causing contact resulting in a crash" is why VR was penalized. Why he threw in the line about running him and forcing him off line is beyond me. And will come back to bite him in the ass in the future in my opinion. I just don't see how VR caused/initiated the contact when all MM had to do was let up and not turn into him. Who the hell knows for sure except Vale and Marc.
Yep.

MM turned in, aerial shot shows that clear as day. Vale went wide, but he never deviated off that arc.
RG1
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10/28/2015 3:11am
Crush wrote:
Yep.

MM turned in, aerial shot shows that clear as day. Vale went wide, but he never deviated off that arc.
You can say that Rossi never deviated off of his arc, but the arc he took was completely unnatural for that corner. Marquez may have turned into him slightly but that would still be the natural arc of the corner. Add to that the fact that Rossi was actually looking for him, it doesn't look good for him.
Crush
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10/28/2015 3:29am
RG1 wrote:
You can say that Rossi never deviated off of his arc, but the arc he took was completely unnatural for that corner. Marquez may have turned...
You can say that Rossi never deviated off of his arc, but the arc he took was completely unnatural for that corner. Marquez may have turned into him slightly but that would still be the natural arc of the corner. Add to that the fact that Rossi was actually looking for him, it doesn't look good for him.
I'd never argue he took him wide or not, what's to argue, but what the fuck is wrong with taking someone wide in racing?!?!

And when did that start?

He gave Marquez the option to shut it down and slow right up, like billions of racers have done before. He didn't cause the crash. He did put them in a situation where Marquez caused the crash, but it's a pretty pussy move to say that deserves a penalty, and how the fuck are you meant to defend that applied to other situations...

Or you just do what the AMA/FIM did in SX and let all the other retaliations/racing line incidents go....
RG1
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10/28/2015 3:34am
Crush wrote:
I'd never argue he took him wide or not, what's to argue, but what the fuck is wrong with taking someone wide in racing?!?! And when...
I'd never argue he took him wide or not, what's to argue, but what the fuck is wrong with taking someone wide in racing?!?!

And when did that start?

He gave Marquez the option to shut it down and slow right up, like billions of racers have done before. He didn't cause the crash. He did put them in a situation where Marquez caused the crash, but it's a pretty pussy move to say that deserves a penalty, and how the fuck are you meant to defend that applied to other situations...

Or you just do what the AMA/FIM did in SX and let all the other retaliations/racing line incidents go....
Well as I said a few pages ago, when you look at what other people are getting penalties for it's pretty hard to justify not giving a penalty. I didn't want him to get a penalty, I still want him to win the the title, but when they are giving people in Moto3 penalties for drafting in qualifying, that's the precedent they have set. People have gotten 3 penalty points for much smaller offences, total accidents, it was the only thing they could do in terms of being fair and consistent
kongols
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10/28/2015 4:05am
kiwifan wrote:
lmfao the video shows he was pushed wide, isnt that the blinking evidence?????
lmfao the video shows he was pushed wide, isnt that the blinking evidence?????
There is no such rule that you have to stay on a inside or that you can`t use the whole track. What Webb said is that him going wide resulted in crash and that`s not true as video shows Marquez turn into Rossi while accelerating. Video is the evidence and you choose to ignore it.
RG1
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10/28/2015 4:24am
kongols wrote:
There is no such rule that you have to stay on a inside or that you can`t use the whole track. What Webb said is that...
There is no such rule that you have to stay on a inside or that you can`t use the whole track. What Webb said is that him going wide resulted in crash and that`s not true as video shows Marquez turn into Rossi while accelerating. Video is the evidence and you choose to ignore it.
But what Vale did was totally unnatural, there is no way you would take the line that Rossi took unless you wanted to either run someone off the track, or knock someone off. That, I think, is why he got the penalty. For me there is absolutely no way that Marquez made himself crash on purpose to get Rossi a penalty, first of all, he couldn't guarantee that there would be a penalty, second of all, as I said before, he has other things to worry about than just Rossi
Question
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10/28/2015 4:31am Edited Date/Time 10/28/2015 4:32am
I am on Rossi's side too in this story. I am not a fan anymore of MotoGP in general since it is not on public channels here so I do not care which rider wins, I just post (and signed the petition) because I think the whole situation is a total mess. Marquez is young ok but here the team manager at Honda should get some serious talk from the "men" above and his sponsors for poor rider management, as it makes the Honda team and their sponsors looks like shit.

Rossi has so much experience that he pushed Marquez to make the mistake and the contact. So strictly on the rules book, Rossi is clean and it should have been accepted by the race direction. It is nasty and I like it based on Marquez's recent behavior. I notice the number of passes these last races in a previous post, which clearly shows some intentions to mess around, which is not fair and not showing great sportmanship with 2-3 rounds to go whilst the rider has no business in this championship. Passing Rossi or Lorenzo, ok, but if you are faster then make it stick, if not wait for the right opportunity, passing/repassing 20 times a rider is just messing around.

Also, what to say about this crash? A low speed crash that did not 0 damage to the bike except some painting, a potential 4th place or 6th place finish? No, it looks more dramatic to chose to go back to cry in the pits to play the victim! Very poorly managed I tell you!





HenryA
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10/28/2015 4:34am
kongols wrote:
There is no such rule that you have to stay on a inside or that you can`t use the whole track. What Webb said is that...
There is no such rule that you have to stay on a inside or that you can`t use the whole track. What Webb said is that him going wide resulted in crash and that`s not true as video shows Marquez turn into Rossi while accelerating. Video is the evidence and you choose to ignore it.
RG1 wrote:
But what Vale did was totally unnatural, there is no way you would take the line that Rossi took unless you wanted to either run someone...
But what Vale did was totally unnatural, there is no way you would take the line that Rossi took unless you wanted to either run someone off the track, or knock someone off. That, I think, is why he got the penalty. For me there is absolutely no way that Marquez made himself crash on purpose to get Rossi a penalty, first of all, he couldn't guarantee that there would be a penalty, second of all, as I said before, he has other things to worry about than just Rossi
Unnatural or not, it was inside the track limits. And Marquez could have let of the pace a bit and cut behind Rossi. But yeah, it is what it is. Such a shame for the championship sprint though.
RG1
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10/28/2015 4:42am
HenryA wrote:
Unnatural or not, it was inside the track limits. And Marquez could have let of the pace a bit and cut behind Rossi. But yeah, it...
Unnatural or not, it was inside the track limits. And Marquez could have let of the pace a bit and cut behind Rossi. But yeah, it is what it is. Such a shame for the championship sprint though.
I agree, it is a real shame, we all wanted to see the championship decided fairly on the track. But that's the way racing goes sometimes
kongols
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10/28/2015 4:55am Edited Date/Time 10/28/2015 4:56am
Question wrote:
I am on Rossi's side too in this story. I am not a fan anymore of MotoGP in general since it is not on public channels...
I am on Rossi's side too in this story. I am not a fan anymore of MotoGP in general since it is not on public channels here so I do not care which rider wins, I just post (and signed the petition) because I think the whole situation is a total mess. Marquez is young ok but here the team manager at Honda should get some serious talk from the "men" above and his sponsors for poor rider management, as it makes the Honda team and their sponsors looks like shit.

Rossi has so much experience that he pushed Marquez to make the mistake and the contact. So strictly on the rules book, Rossi is clean and it should have been accepted by the race direction. It is nasty and I like it based on Marquez's recent behavior. I notice the number of passes these last races in a previous post, which clearly shows some intentions to mess around, which is not fair and not showing great sportmanship with 2-3 rounds to go whilst the rider has no business in this championship. Passing Rossi or Lorenzo, ok, but if you are faster then make it stick, if not wait for the right opportunity, passing/repassing 20 times a rider is just messing around.

Also, what to say about this crash? A low speed crash that did not 0 damage to the bike except some painting, a potential 4th place or 6th place finish? No, it looks more dramatic to chose to go back to cry in the pits to play the victim! Very poorly managed I tell you!





In Marquez defense- I believe he broke off footpeg when he fell. At least that`s what I saw on a video.
10/28/2015 5:26am
So pushing someone wide is a crime? It's race craft.

Maybe we should just put these bikes on train tracks, like the gokarts at Disney Land. Or maybe we should drag race.

Nah, fuck it. Let's just not race at all, sit on the internet and arbitrarily argue who the fastest rider is, then hold hands and sing kumbaya. Wouldn't want anyone to (gasp) get..OH-FFENDED Shocked Shocked Shocked

Tim507
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10/28/2015 6:24am
http://sport.detik.com/read/2015/10/27/150853/3054650/81/agostini-di-se…


Translation......


Motor racing legend Giacomo Agostini, questioned the attitude and actions of Valentino Rossi on the MotoGP circuit in Malaysia. What do Rossi in Sepang Rossi calls not like she knew.

"I think Valentino is too emotional. It was not Rossi, who usually because then he might have lost his senses," Agostini said in an interview in Marca.

Agostini was not accused Rossi has kicked Marc Marquez in an incident that ultimately makes the Honda rider fell. But the world champion 15 times it mentions that The Doctor felt the pressure and nervousness related to the competition to become world champion.

"He was very tense, plays a duel to become world champion. But I think he did not do it (dropped Marquez) intentionally," said the man collecting 15 world title Italian.

"I can understand that Valentino was very nervous. But you can not make gestures like that: reduce the speed, waiting for him, and made him fall. I think Valentino did not want to fall, but the gesture he made was to drop Marquez," he said again.

Furthermore, Agostini says that Rossi has made a mistake since the session press conference on Thursday. When Rossi accused Marquez had tried to help Lorenzo in the race at Phillip Island.

"I think Valentino was not supposed to create controversy on Thursday. He should not say anything until Valencia, if he wanted to. I say this because this is what I think. But building a controversy before the two races is important, in a state of tension, in where the world title was at stake ... I do not think it should it be done. "

"We've seen all the tape, no doubt that Rossi guilty. Obviously he was provoked, but he did not have to react like that. Now the world title to be difficult, though still open. But his favorite is no longer him, but (Jorge) Lorenzo."

"The fight tight between the riders is a normal thing in MotoGP. It is difficult to stay calm on the track. Being the world champion is not easy, he (Rossi) can not expect Marquez opened the way for him. Marquez is a rider who does not want to lose, though no longer fight to be world champion still wants to prove he is still the best, "former rider finished collectors of 122 Grand Prix victories it.
RG1
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10/28/2015 6:40am Edited Date/Time 10/28/2015 6:44am
So pushing someone wide is a crime? It's race craft. Maybe we should just put these bikes on train tracks, like the gokarts at Disney Land...
So pushing someone wide is a crime? It's race craft.

Maybe we should just put these bikes on train tracks, like the gokarts at Disney Land. Or maybe we should drag race.

Nah, fuck it. Let's just not race at all, sit on the internet and arbitrarily argue who the fastest rider is, then hold hands and sing kumbaya. Wouldn't want anyone to (gasp) get..OH-FFENDED Shocked Shocked Shocked

So if what Rossi did isn't wrong, absolutely nothing that Marquez did can be considered anything close to wrong, it was just racing, which is after all, what we want to see. You're saying that what Rossi did is exactly what many people are hanging Marquez out to dry for doing.
10/28/2015 6:51am
So pushing someone wide is a crime? It's race craft. Maybe we should just put these bikes on train tracks, like the gokarts at Disney Land...
So pushing someone wide is a crime? It's race craft.

Maybe we should just put these bikes on train tracks, like the gokarts at Disney Land. Or maybe we should drag race.

Nah, fuck it. Let's just not race at all, sit on the internet and arbitrarily argue who the fastest rider is, then hold hands and sing kumbaya. Wouldn't want anyone to (gasp) get..OH-FFENDED Shocked Shocked Shocked

RG1 wrote:
So if what Rossi did isn't wrong, absolutely nothing that Marquez did can be considered anything close to wrong, it was just racing, which is after...
So if what Rossi did isn't wrong, absolutely nothing that Marquez did can be considered anything close to wrong, it was just racing, which is after all, what we want to see. You're saying that what Rossi did is exactly what many people are hanging Marquez out to dry for doing.
Kumbaya my lord....
RG1
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10/28/2015 7:01am
Kumbaya my lord....
I agree with you. You can't say that what Rossi did was fine but what Marquez did is wrong
10/28/2015 7:08am Edited Date/Time 10/28/2015 7:36am
RG1 wrote:
So if what Rossi did isn't wrong, absolutely nothing that Marquez did can be considered anything close to wrong, it was just racing, which is after...
So if what Rossi did isn't wrong, absolutely nothing that Marquez did can be considered anything close to wrong, it was just racing, which is after all, what we want to see. You're saying that what Rossi did is exactly what many people are hanging Marquez out to dry for doing.
If there was no crash, there would be no penalty! Period. And since contact was not initiated by VR and MM's crash was a result of his own doing... see where this goes Wink

Also, I'm pretty sure in all those video's I seen, MM not only ran someone wide, but all the way out to the rumble strips which is way past where VR was running him to. AND he actually HIT another rider for a WIN!

I don't really care who wins the title but c'mon, regardless of the penalty handed down, it was and is wrong..
RG1
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10/28/2015 8:08am Edited Date/Time 10/28/2015 8:13am
If there was no crash, there would be no penalty! Period. And since contact was not initiated by VR and MM's crash was a result of...
If there was no crash, there would be no penalty! Period. And since contact was not initiated by VR and MM's crash was a result of his own doing... see where this goes Wink

Also, I'm pretty sure in all those video's I seen, MM not only ran someone wide, but all the way out to the rumble strips which is way past where VR was running him to. AND he actually HIT another rider for a WIN!

I don't really care who wins the title but c'mon, regardless of the penalty handed down, it was and is wrong..
If Rossi had not run right out to deliberately block Marquez, there would be no crash. Period. See where this is going? Both riders played their part, to say that Rossi is just a victim and then throw Marquez under the bus is wrong. Marquez's passes were opportunistic and aggressive, but none of them were a deliberate attempt to run Rossi out off the track or block him.

He's not the only rider to hit someone for a win, remember Rossi doing it to Gibernau at Jerez?
10/28/2015 8:10am


More 'proof' that it wasn't Rossis fault!
Johnny Depp
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10/28/2015 8:12am Edited Date/Time 10/28/2015 8:15am
MotoGP stepped in it this time. This is the most attention this sport has had in years. No matter who you think is right the sport is being shown in a poor light. Such is Drama.

So let's assume there will be a lot of eyes on the final race Sunday, Nov. 8 – Grand Prix of Valencia (7:30 a.m. ET, LIVE FOX Sports 1).

I think the odds are very high of other riders picking sides and riding wide may become commonplace in qualifying and the race. On the other hand there will likely be riders letting others by without any fight.

Besides all the Grandstanding about rider's not showing up and Sponsor's dropping out, I expect everyone there and another compelling Drama to play out. It only takes 1 little mistake to change everything for JLo or VR. Marquez has nothing to lose again. So who has more friends in this fight? It has been established that there is no rule against messing with someone, so what happens next?
10/28/2015 8:21am
If there was no crash, there would be no penalty! Period. And since contact was not initiated by VR and MM's crash was a result of...
If there was no crash, there would be no penalty! Period. And since contact was not initiated by VR and MM's crash was a result of his own doing... see where this goes Wink

Also, I'm pretty sure in all those video's I seen, MM not only ran someone wide, but all the way out to the rumble strips which is way past where VR was running him to. AND he actually HIT another rider for a WIN!

I don't really care who wins the title but c'mon, regardless of the penalty handed down, it was and is wrong..
RG1 wrote:
If Rossi had not run right out to deliberately block Marquez, there would be no crash. Period. See where this is going? Both riders played their...
If Rossi had not run right out to deliberately block Marquez, there would be no crash. Period. See where this is going? Both riders played their part, to say that Rossi is just a victim and then throw Marquez under the bus is wrong. Marquez's passes were opportunistic and aggressive, but none of them were a deliberate attempt to run Rossi out off the track or block him.

He's not the only rider to hit someone for a win, remember Rossi doing it to Gibernau at Jerez?
I get it, you're dug in for the long troll!
RG1
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10/28/2015 8:30am
I get it, you're dug in for the long troll!
I'm just making good points. Which is why it annoys you
RG1
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10/28/2015 8:48am
I don't believe the consensus here is you're making good points!
That's because 95% of the people in here have VR46 tinted glasses on.
10/28/2015 8:59am
I don't believe the consensus here is you're making good points!
RG1 wrote:
That's because 95% of the people in here have VR46 tinted glasses on.
Welp, I've participated way more than I should have in this thread. Just going to end it with, take care Smile

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