How will we ever know who is the fastest rider with multiple classes?

Johnny Depp
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Johnny Depp
Edited Date/Time 9/11/2015 3:02pm
There is a best case scenario for Jean-Michel Bayle who in 1991 won the Supercross, 500 and 250 title.



He was a pretty good road racer too..

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YZ324
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YZ324 9/9/2015 10:11am
9/9/2015 10:11am
Steve Wise trumped that.
The Narrator 9/9/2015 10:15am
9/9/2015 10:15am
YZ324 wrote:
Steve Wise trumped that.
yea, but "he looked the wrong way".
The Rock
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The Rock 9/9/2015 11:57am
9/9/2015 11:57am Edited Date/Time 9/9/2015 11:58am
The answer to your question is answered regularly on Vital MX especially before the MXdN.
cwtoyota
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cwtoyota 9/9/2015 12:16pm
9/9/2015 12:16pm
Guys like JMB are/were great at anything. Look at Travis Pastrana, he is just super talented and operates at the top level in just about any sport he attempts. Effort and dedication (or distractions) aside, those guys are the "best" as far as skill & talent for their given generation.

Realistically though, you can what-if the subject all day and never really know who the better rider is because there are more factors involved.

Sometimes the type and size of the bike suits a particular rider better. Barcia vs Dungey on a 450F for example... We know how that pans out. If you put those same two guys on the 250F does Barcia's riding style improve his odds or maybe even give him an edge over Dungey?

Another point is that different guys are better at different points in their career (sometimes simply based on youth, fitness and aggression while sometimes on maturity). If you sent RV back in a time machine to race Stewart on a 125, would RV have beaten him? What if you brought a young James forward in time to 2007 or 2008 and put him on a 250F to race RV? Who would have come out on top?

For those reasons and others it's impossible to know who is the "best rider".

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Silliker269
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Silliker269 9/9/2015 12:20pm
9/9/2015 12:20pm
WOuld you put them on 250f or 450s for one class , 250's would be the way to go for me , that would be unbelievable
Johnny Depp
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Johnny Depp 9/9/2015 12:44pm
9/9/2015 12:44pm
I would say bring whatever weapon you think gives you the best chance.
Andy_Greenney 9/9/2015 12:49pm
9/9/2015 12:49pm Edited Date/Time 9/9/2015 12:52pm
John Surtees winning multiple superbike and F1 titles, not a bad achievement! (slightly off topic i know)
Johnny Depp
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Johnny Depp 9/9/2015 12:49pm
9/9/2015 12:49pm
The Rock wrote:
The answer to your question is answered regularly on Vital MX especially before the MXdN.
I assume you mean bragging rights? There is an ultimate truth about the des Nations. Different CC's on the track at the same time with varying results.

Just how necessary is multiple classes, and who does it benefit? Why should the fan be left confused?

I want to see head to head the best against the best. The engine size is insignificant.
Andy_Greenney 9/9/2015 12:53pm
9/9/2015 12:53pm
Johnny Depp wrote:
I assume you mean bragging rights? There is an ultimate truth about the des Nations. Different CC's on the track at the same time with varying...
I assume you mean bragging rights? There is an ultimate truth about the des Nations. Different CC's on the track at the same time with varying results.

Just how necessary is multiple classes, and who does it benefit? Why should the fan be left confused?

I want to see head to head the best against the best. The engine size is insignificant.
In which case you would also need a single manufacturer championship with regulation engine etc, not all bikes are created equally.
Johnny Depp
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Johnny Depp 9/9/2015 1:00pm
9/9/2015 1:00pm
You might need it, I don't. I just want to know who is fastest.

Is it the champion of:

SX 450
SX 250 West
SX 250 East
450 Nationals
250 Nationals
MX1
MX2
MX3
Moto des Nations

That is 9 guys who can claim to be the "Champion" and the best that year.

That is weaker than circus lemonade.
RichardLoots 9/9/2015 1:28pm
9/9/2015 1:28pm Edited Date/Time 9/9/2015 1:29pm
Johnny Depp wrote:
You might need it, I don't. I just want to know who is fastest. Is it the champion of: SX 450 SX 250 West SX 250...
You might need it, I don't. I just want to know who is fastest.

Is it the champion of:

SX 450
SX 250 West
SX 250 East
450 Nationals
250 Nationals
MX1
MX2
MX3
Moto des Nations

That is 9 guys who can claim to be the "Champion" and the best that year.

That is weaker than circus lemonade.
The best can never be decided in a 1 race event like the MXON in my opinion
moto0852
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moto0852 9/9/2015 1:37pm
9/9/2015 1:37pm
YZ324 wrote:
Steve Wise trumped that.
The Narrator wrote:
yea, but "he looked the wrong way".
There will never be another racer like Danny. Just amazing to watch.
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h&m_cycle 9/9/2015 1:45pm
9/9/2015 1:45pm
Johnny Depp wrote:
You might need it, I don't. I just want to know who is fastest. Is it the champion of: SX 450 SX 250 West SX 250...
You might need it, I don't. I just want to know who is fastest.

Is it the champion of:

SX 450
SX 250 West
SX 250 East
450 Nationals
250 Nationals
MX1
MX2
MX3
Moto des Nations

That is 9 guys who can claim to be the "Champion" and the best that year.

That is weaker than circus lemonade.
No, make it six, supercross is circus lemonade...
xnationalwrench 9/9/2015 1:52pm
9/9/2015 1:52pm
What about someone like Kenny Roberts who won any style race or world championship he raced in? Then there is always racers like Dick Mann and Dave Aldana..
The Truth Bringer 9/9/2015 1:55pm
9/9/2015 1:55pm
Dick Mann..... When that guy called for reservations, nobody took him serious.
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Johnny Depp 9/9/2015 4:12pm
9/9/2015 4:12pm
xnationalwrench wrote:
What about someone like Kenny Roberts who won any style race or world championship he raced in? Then there is always racers like Dick Mann and...
What about someone like Kenny Roberts who won any style race or world championship he raced in? Then there is always racers like Dick Mann and Dave Aldana..
You are right, even in my broad approach I left some dirt bike guys out.

Flat Track
GNCC
Enduro
Speedway
Hare & Hound
Trials
Rally
Arenacross
Endurocross
Hillclimb
Hare Scrambles

Is it any wonder fans can't keep up? Hell I can't keep up!
Johnny Depp
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Johnny Depp 9/9/2015 4:14pm
9/9/2015 4:14pm
Johnny Depp wrote:
You might need it, I don't. I just want to know who is fastest. Is it the champion of: SX 450 SX 250 West SX 250...
You might need it, I don't. I just want to know who is fastest.

Is it the champion of:

SX 450
SX 250 West
SX 250 East
450 Nationals
250 Nationals
MX1
MX2
MX3
Moto des Nations

That is 9 guys who can claim to be the "Champion" and the best that year.

That is weaker than circus lemonade.
RichardLoots wrote:
The best can never be decided in a 1 race event like the MXON in my opinion
Although it is the only time we see all bike sizes and countries together. I certainly would love to see this format turned into a International series and then we would have something F'ing Amazing.
The Narrator 9/9/2015 4:25pm
9/9/2015 4:25pm
Speaking of motocross, and just overall raw speed, I don't think anything will ever top JS259 on a KX125.

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Johnny Depp
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Johnny Depp 9/9/2015 5:28pm
9/9/2015 5:28pm Edited Date/Time 9/9/2015 5:30pm
The Narrator wrote:
Speaking of motocross, and just overall raw speed, I don't think anything will ever top JS259 on a KX125.
Exactly my point. Why did he sandbag in the little engine class so long. Why not race with RC and the rest of the best.

Too many classes deny us the opportunity to see head to head racing. SANDBAGGING.

We may never get to see Cairoli and Herlings go head to head at their peak.

I don't care which engine they choose, choose your weapon and get to the gate.
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Gringoe 9/9/2015 5:38pm
9/9/2015 5:38pm
The Narrator wrote:
Speaking of motocross, and just overall raw speed, I don't think anything will ever top JS259 on a KX125.
Johnny Depp wrote:
Exactly my point. Why did he sandbag in the little engine class so long. Why not race with RC and the rest of the best. Too...
Exactly my point. Why did he sandbag in the little engine class so long. Why not race with RC and the rest of the best.

Too many classes deny us the opportunity to see head to head racing. SANDBAGGING.

We may never get to see Cairoli and Herlings go head to head at their peak.

I don't care which engine they choose, choose your weapon and get to the gate.
I'm sorry, did James rob you of seeing him and rc face off in their primes? Oh wait, no he didn't..
The Truth Bringer 9/9/2015 6:11pm
9/9/2015 6:11pm
The Narrator wrote:
Speaking of motocross, and just overall raw speed, I don't think anything will ever top JS259 on a KX125.
I've never seen someone go so fast on a bike. It was actually scary to me.
indecisivepanda 9/9/2015 6:12pm
9/9/2015 6:12pm
RC best ever of all time, on any bike, and in any era (other than perhaps beating James on a 125, but it would still be close).
Johnny Depp
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Johnny Depp 9/9/2015 6:14pm
9/9/2015 6:14pm Edited Date/Time 9/9/2015 6:15pm
Gringoe said: I'm sorry, did James rob you of seeing him and rc face off in their primes? Oh wait, no he didn't..


'02, '03 and '04 in the tiddler class. We all know he could have been at the top of any class.

Why do we need so many "Champions"? Can't we just have one that isn't debatable. Everyone doesn't deserve a medal. It waters down the legitimacy of all of them.

1 winner. Like other mainstream sports.
dynohut
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dynohut 9/9/2015 6:14pm
9/9/2015 6:14pm
MAGOO wins, next question please
The Truth Bringer 9/9/2015 6:14pm
9/9/2015 6:14pm
The Narrator wrote:
Speaking of motocross, and just overall raw speed, I don't think anything will ever top JS259 on a KX125.
Johnny Depp wrote:
Exactly my point. Why did he sandbag in the little engine class so long. Why not race with RC and the rest of the best. Too...
Exactly my point. Why did he sandbag in the little engine class so long. Why not race with RC and the rest of the best.

Too many classes deny us the opportunity to see head to head racing. SANDBAGGING.

We may never get to see Cairoli and Herlings go head to head at their peak.

I don't care which engine they choose, choose your weapon and get to the gate.
He did race with RC and crew, and everyone said he moved up to early.....

The idea of getting rid of the development class eliminates jobs, teams and overall money coming in to the sport.
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Johnny Depp 9/9/2015 6:20pm
9/9/2015 6:20pm Edited Date/Time 9/9/2015 6:21pm
What do you tell your grandchildren? Joel Robert or Roger Decoster or Gaston Rahier? Different classes denied us all.



Johnny Depp
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Johnny Depp 9/9/2015 6:24pm
9/9/2015 6:24pm
The Narrator wrote:
Speaking of motocross, and just overall raw speed, I don't think anything will ever top JS259 on a KX125.
Johnny Depp wrote:
Exactly my point. Why did he sandbag in the little engine class so long. Why not race with RC and the rest of the best. Too...
Exactly my point. Why did he sandbag in the little engine class so long. Why not race with RC and the rest of the best.

Too many classes deny us the opportunity to see head to head racing. SANDBAGGING.

We may never get to see Cairoli and Herlings go head to head at their peak.

I don't care which engine they choose, choose your weapon and get to the gate.
The Truth Bringer wrote:
He did race with RC and crew, and everyone said he moved up to early..... The idea of getting rid of the development class eliminates jobs...
He did race with RC and crew, and everyone said he moved up to early.....

The idea of getting rid of the development class eliminates jobs, teams and overall money coming in to the sport.
Development class, that's funny. Yet World Champions compete in it?

I believe it holds the sport back. There is no legitimate point to it. Call it what it is.
jeffro503
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jeffro503 9/9/2015 6:27pm
9/9/2015 6:27pm
Many different riders shined in different aspect of the sport of riding dirt bikes. Top MX guys make the offroad guys look slow on a track....BUT , Take a top MX guy and have him do offroad , he'll get waxed , badly. I'm an MX guy , and I watch some of those offroad guys in complete disbelief. They do some insane things on a motorcycle.

Same can be said about onroad.....look at Isle of man.
Same can be said for Trials bike ( skill alone! )

They are all completely different aspects of doing things on two wheels. The top guys in each discipline will always have my respect.
OR Racer46
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OR Racer46 9/9/2015 6:33pm
9/9/2015 6:33pm
You left out the straight rythem Champion. And the Monster Energy Cup Champion
The Truth Bringer 9/9/2015 6:41pm
9/9/2015 6:41pm
Johnny Depp wrote:
Exactly my point. Why did he sandbag in the little engine class so long. Why not race with RC and the rest of the best. Too...
Exactly my point. Why did he sandbag in the little engine class so long. Why not race with RC and the rest of the best.

Too many classes deny us the opportunity to see head to head racing. SANDBAGGING.

We may never get to see Cairoli and Herlings go head to head at their peak.

I don't care which engine they choose, choose your weapon and get to the gate.
The Truth Bringer wrote:
He did race with RC and crew, and everyone said he moved up to early..... The idea of getting rid of the development class eliminates jobs...
He did race with RC and crew, and everyone said he moved up to early.....

The idea of getting rid of the development class eliminates jobs, teams and overall money coming in to the sport.
Johnny Depp wrote:
Development class, that's funny. Yet World Champions compete in it? I believe it holds the sport back. There is no legitimate point to it. Call it...
Development class, that's funny. Yet World Champions compete in it?

I believe it holds the sport back. There is no legitimate point to it. Call it what it is.
How does it hold the sport back?

Without it you only have about 10-15 guys with jobs in the 450 class, and eliminate teams like TLD from ever entering the sport because they can only justify the cost of doing one coast as an entry level team.

You cut the amount of racing people get to see in half so who can justify the ticket prices of a supercross and kill the sport.

This must be a troll thread because it makes 0 sense to eliminate jobs from the sport.

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