Hey Dealers: Buying in the next 48 hours, give me your quotes..

Dan-The-Man
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2060
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Location
Bakersfield, CA, USA
Fantasy
9/3/2015 9:52am
I like how some of you immediately condemn people for not supporting their local dealership. As if you know their local dealership and the people that work in it. My local dealership never has parts in stock, doesn't matter what it is. Then when it arrives they lose it in the back somewhere and they have to order it again because they can't find it. This dealership also still has new 2013 models on the floor for MSRP. They don't budge on their prices and everyone knows it. They only sell bikes to suckers. Why in hell would I shop at this place? The experience sucks.

Blaming buyers for not making enough money at your dealership is laughable. It's your choice to be in the business you're in and publicly blaming customers for your lack of profit is ridiculous. We need to learn to buy? Maybe you need to learn business.

Get with the times people.
TailSoHard
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1656
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10/18/2014
Location
Beer City, MI, USA
9/3/2015 9:52am
TailSoHard wrote:
I'm a dealer and have been lurking here, but I'm not a Honda dealer at this location so that's why I haven't sent him a quote...otherwise...
I'm a dealer and have been lurking here, but I'm not a Honda dealer at this location so that's why I haven't sent him a quote...otherwise I totally would. I can guarantee you he wouldn't like the quote I send him, but I'd send it either way

It's always funny to me to hear how much money consumers think we dealers make on a brand new bike. I had one guy tell me that he knows for a fact we make roughly $2500 on an $8000 bike sale and I had a tough time not laughing in his face. I'm lucky if I make $300 on a motocross bike these days and here's why:

IF someone pays full-retail for a roughly $8000 bike (which never happens...hence the "IF"), we make less than $1000. Now, when that customer calls around to two different dealers (we'll call them A and B ), he can find dealer A is willing to make only $500 on that sale in order to earn his business. So, he calls dealer B and says "dealer A will do it for a $500 profit, can you do better?" To which they say "I guess if that's what it takes, sure, we'll do it for $350 profit..." So then he calls back to dealer A and yells at them for not giving them their "best price" right from the get-go. So they offer to do it for $100 profit but he says "no, I'm gonna go with dealer B cause they treated me right from the beginning". So he goes back to dealer B and says "dealer A will do it for $100 profit". And then they say "ok, well we'll just do it at $0 profit since you're a local guy and we like to take care of our local customers"... And so on. Then after buying his bike, he wants all his parts to match all the online prices, otherwise he might as well just go buy them online. So, that's what he does since the dealer can't match the price of an online retailer that moves 500 helmets per month when the dealer only sells 20. What blows my mind is that after all that, the dude STILL assumes that the dealer is making thousands on that sale...which is insane. A $300 profit on a year-long $8000 investment is not enough to keep food on the table. For all you people who suck at math, that's a 3% profit that took us a year to get. BUT, that profit got cancelled out by the 2014 model I had to sell at a loss because Mr "I'm a sponsored rider, I deserve a deal" wanted it for less than what Yamaha sold it to me for...

So, yeah, we don't make any money selling you guys motocross bikes...

What the dealers have going for them is the experience. The successful dealerships sell things based on emotions. Most people will literally pay more for the same product just because they like the person selling it or the experience they had while buying it (or having a shitty experience at another dealer). Harley Davidson is a great example. Shit bikes, shit clothes, shit prices, shit people, but they sell 1 out of every 3 bikes sold today. It's all based on the feeling you get from having a Harley. It's the branding. It's the emotion behind the name and the experience.

Not everyone is a "price-shopper". There are people willing to pay more for a product if they have a good experience. Ironically, those are also the people that end up getting the best deals from the dealerships. The loyal ones. As Shane mentioned, it's a two-way street guys. Take an interest in shopping at your local dealership, show them that you care, and they'll bend over backwards for you. The online retailers do business by saying "here's what it costs, take it or leave it, it'll be there in four days". Local dealerships do business by saying "Hey, how are you doing today, sir? What would you like me to do for you?"... See the difference? They're selling you the experience. A relationship. Two people doing business together. Not a person buying from a robot.

And then people wonder why dealerships keep closing and jobs keep getting shipped overseas. It's cause consumers are just that: consumers. They consume. They don't give. Just take and take.

I've said it before: learn how to buy before you complain about how people sell.
tprice07 wrote:
I don't believe that, or maybe I CAN'T believe that. Those margins are horrible and who in their right mind would spend $7,000 only to make...
I don't believe that, or maybe I CAN'T believe that.

Those margins are horrible and who in their right mind would spend $7,000 only to make a couple hundred bucks. I make more money flipping dirt bikes, mowers, subwoofers/amps and other stuff.

I work as a representative for a car audio company. My primary goal is to sign dealers, in which I make 10% commission off everything they sell. On the low end items dealer cost is something like $130 and the MAP price is $220, MSRP is $280. On the higher end stuff it's like $950 for dealer, $1330 MAP, $1659 MSRP. Those margins extend out even more when you sell more: $110 and $825.
Titan1 wrote:
I'm a bit skeptical of those margins as well. IF that is what manufacturers are forcing their dealerships to live on, they they are setting their...
I'm a bit skeptical of those margins as well.

IF that is what manufacturers are forcing their dealerships to live on, they they are setting their dealers up to fail. It just doesn't make any sense.

No way in the world I'd spend $7K on something that will sit on my showroom floor for up to a year, and only have the potential to make me $300. No way at all.

I wonder if its anything like the new car business where, their "invoice" price doesn't include any manufacturer kickbacks...so the salesmen can say, "here is our invoice, see? we are only making $300 on this car"...when in reality the dealership is getting a $4K kick back from the manufacturer.

I have no idea...but I just have a hard time believing that if there really is no money in dirt bikes, why dealers even sell them?
Those margins on audio equipment are similar to what SOME of the parts and accessories that we sell are, but not anywhere near the bikes' margins.

I can't tell you online what the exact numbers and dealer costs are without getting in trouble from Yamaha, so I guess you'll have to take my word that I have my 2014-2016 price sheets sitting right in front of me. Yes, there is a holdback from Yamaha on bikes that we get (usually six months after the sale is complete), but even that is only usually 2%-3% of dealer cost (again, roughly $300). And believe it or not, Yamaha charges $357 in freight for each bike they send us, which cancels out that holdback right away. So, after you take what Yamaha makes us write a check for (or finance if you can't afford to write a check for it), add in the freight charge that shows up on the shipping invoice, and take out holdback that we get six months down the road, it ends up costing us about $1000 less than full MSRP (what we call "true dealer cost").

The reason we sell them is a mix between passion for the sport and requirements placed by manufacturers. Our online store (spam: partspitstop.com) sells a lot of OEM replacement parts, and if we want the ability to sell those parts, we are required to sell the bikes on the showroom floor. That's why we sell Arctic Cat. They break a lot so we sell a shit ton of parts for them. We've adapted over the years to the changing consumer base and have established a very large online presence, so we do ok with the parts side of things (at least in our PMA). Luckily the dealers that do this don't have to rely on making every nickel and dime possible on new bikes, so that's why you find large dealerships willing to sell them at such a low margin: they know that dude is going to come back and spend SOMETHING on parts...

The other reason is volume. If you know that you can sell 100 bikes at $300 profit a peice, or sell 50 bikes at $600 a piece, doesn't it make sense to sell the larger volume option? You gain market share and establish a larger customer base. Then all you can do is hope that those customers will shop at your online store or come back in to buy things from your brick & mortar...
dl117
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Cambridge, MN, USA
9/3/2015 9:53am
Its been that way for years in the powersports industry. Late 80's early 90's I worked at a snowmobile dealership and it was the same way, we made next to nothing on sleds, but where the money was made was customer service....ie parts, clothing accessorys, and service. And we were a small 4 person shop and had a very loyal following. Keeping people happy.
9/3/2015 10:05am
So riddle me this... How does a dealership stay in business, making $0-$500 per vehicle sold?
90% of dealerships that I know of are in large, modern buildings along main thorofares where rent / mortgage is definitely not cheap; they have several employees who are having to be paid; they have high overhead due to the cost of inventory, utility bills for said large building, insurance, etc. etc.
A man's personal or business finances are none of my business, but it just puzzles me how everyone who works at or owns a dealership talks about ho much money they LOSE on everything they sell, but yet continue to open up the doors every day, and most of them are still paying a lot of money for advertisements at the local tracks, radio / tv commercials, etc. Wouldn't you just cut your losses and stop advertising so people can come in and rob you blind as they purchase a vehicle on your showroom? Wouldn't you rather just keep the vehicle on your floor as opposed to giving it away or taking a loss on it?

The Shop

newmann
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24437
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USA
9/3/2015 10:07am
a guy wants to buy a bike. 2 pages of arguing over the merits of dealers. This place is worse than a Cat Fancy forum some...
a guy wants to buy a bike.

2 pages of arguing over the merits of dealers.

This place is worse than a Cat Fancy forum some days.
My cat Johnny O went to the vet yesterday. He is still pissed at me. Where did I go wrong?

Oh shit, wrong forum.Laughing


Sad thing about dealers these days is that they just aren't what they used to be 30-40 years ago when I got into this stuff. Mom and pop or enthusiast owned dealers have dropped off the face of the earth over the last decade or two. Need a crank pressed? They can't do it. Need a fresh bore? Can't do that either. What performance parts work? Don't know. Can't make you a decent deal on gear because they don't stock much of that either.

Here locally we used to have a Yamaha dealer who was in Baja at least once a year faithfully. The Suzuki dealer and the Honda (Honda/Triumph/Can-Am) dealer were always taking it to each other on the flat tracks and the Honda dealer had bikes on the flat tracks, Triumphs finishing second on the high banks of Daytona , Can Am's setting records at Bonneville and little outboard boats winning national championships all developed, built and tested by him on the dyno he built himself. That man was a mechanical genius.

Now they are all gone and every single line sits under one roof of a 50,000 sq foot building. I guess some of us got the change we were demanding.
Titan1
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Lehi, UT, USA
9/3/2015 10:09am Edited Date/Time 9/3/2015 10:13am
TailSoHard wrote:
Those margins on audio equipment are similar to what SOME of the parts and accessories that we sell are, but not anywhere near the bikes' margins...
Those margins on audio equipment are similar to what SOME of the parts and accessories that we sell are, but not anywhere near the bikes' margins.

I can't tell you online what the exact numbers and dealer costs are without getting in trouble from Yamaha, so I guess you'll have to take my word that I have my 2014-2016 price sheets sitting right in front of me. Yes, there is a holdback from Yamaha on bikes that we get (usually six months after the sale is complete), but even that is only usually 2%-3% of dealer cost (again, roughly $300). And believe it or not, Yamaha charges $357 in freight for each bike they send us, which cancels out that holdback right away. So, after you take what Yamaha makes us write a check for (or finance if you can't afford to write a check for it), add in the freight charge that shows up on the shipping invoice, and take out holdback that we get six months down the road, it ends up costing us about $1000 less than full MSRP (what we call "true dealer cost").

The reason we sell them is a mix between passion for the sport and requirements placed by manufacturers. Our online store (spam: partspitstop.com) sells a lot of OEM replacement parts, and if we want the ability to sell those parts, we are required to sell the bikes on the showroom floor. That's why we sell Arctic Cat. They break a lot so we sell a shit ton of parts for them. We've adapted over the years to the changing consumer base and have established a very large online presence, so we do ok with the parts side of things (at least in our PMA). Luckily the dealers that do this don't have to rely on making every nickel and dime possible on new bikes, so that's why you find large dealerships willing to sell them at such a low margin: they know that dude is going to come back and spend SOMETHING on parts...

The other reason is volume. If you know that you can sell 100 bikes at $300 profit a peice, or sell 50 bikes at $600 a piece, doesn't it make sense to sell the larger volume option? You gain market share and establish a larger customer base. Then all you can do is hope that those customers will shop at your online store or come back in to buy things from your brick & mortar...
So what you're saying is that a dealership is really a parts/accessories/service center that uses the dirt bikes to get customers in the door to buy their over priced parts/accessories/service.

Like movie theaters are really concessions stands, that use the movies to get people in the door to buy their overpriced popcorn/soda/candy?
.
racinstation
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Driggs, ID, USA
9/3/2015 10:10am
Ill give you guys an example, a few years back we were a Yamaha dealership and were rocking and rolling. This was during the 2001 to 2009 boom when you couldn't get bikes like YZ450s fast enough. Anyway, a good customer of mine sold a bunch of land and was looking to turn the money on something and told me he would like to talk about a buy out. I told him for the right price we could do something, so he asked for my financials to browse and see what he was getting into. I grabbed a current snapshot and gave it to him to look over. Three days later he came back and handed me the paperwork and said, "I can't believe you can keep afloat with these margins!". He had purchased a PW50 from me for his grandson about a month prior so that sale was on my paperwork. He paid me $1069 plus tax and title for the little bike and he said that in his mind, he figured I made $350 to $400.00 on that sale and he was fine with that. When he looked at the "brass tacks" and found that we made $45.00 on the bike and I had to pay someone to assemble it and he also said he remembered that I spent an hour with him and the grandson going over the operation controls, and test ride of the bike.............Like he said, he could put his money in an average Joe savings account and get that kind of return and just go fishing every day. For most of us it is a love of the sport and the industry that keeps us going day to day. We are for the most part all good people trying to keep people happy, but never lose sight of that yellow line between us. (Signifies a two-way street)
coolhand
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Atlanta, GA, USA
9/3/2015 10:12am
Tongue

Oh Hell,

Narrator lets go get a beer.

Booth
KTMShane699
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Colchester, CT, USA
9/3/2015 10:15am
TeamPumpin wrote:
So riddle me this... How does a dealership stay in business, making $0-$500 per vehicle sold? 90% of dealerships that I know of are in large...
So riddle me this... How does a dealership stay in business, making $0-$500 per vehicle sold?
90% of dealerships that I know of are in large, modern buildings along main thorofares where rent / mortgage is definitely not cheap; they have several employees who are having to be paid; they have high overhead due to the cost of inventory, utility bills for said large building, insurance, etc. etc.
A man's personal or business finances are none of my business, but it just puzzles me how everyone who works at or owns a dealership talks about ho much money they LOSE on everything they sell, but yet continue to open up the doors every day, and most of them are still paying a lot of money for advertisements at the local tracks, radio / tv commercials, etc. Wouldn't you just cut your losses and stop advertising so people can come in and rob you blind as they purchase a vehicle on your showroom? Wouldn't you rather just keep the vehicle on your floor as opposed to giving it away or taking a loss on it?
It's not that a dealer loses on everything they sell. It's that they have to make enough profit to cover the overhead. Only after the overhead is met, is profit really made. There's far more expenses than simply buying a part for $10 and selling it for $15-18. Out of that comes salaries, monthly expenses (rent/mortgage, electricity, insurance). So while on the surface it looks like dealers might be making out because of the markup on parts...it becomes far less when you take expenses out.

And as far as keeping a vehicle on the showroom rather than giving it away or taking a loss, how does a dealer make room for the new product coming in? Part of the dealer agreement is to purchase so many units per year which translates to parts per year, etc. Riding gear is a big one. We usually start cutting our inventory back around April since we know the new gear will be out around August. That helps us to sell through what we have in the store and make room for the next years lines. You can't stock fully all year round and then take on the next years products. At some point, you have to get off of the product.

And in the meantime, there are still expenses. Motorcycle dealerships aren't "big" business. The profit everyone seems to exist isn't there. Can dealerships make money? They sure can. Is it a fast lane to a large bank account and the good life? It isn't.

Shane
TailSoHard
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1656
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Location
Beer City, MI, USA
9/3/2015 10:16am
Titan1 wrote:
So what you're saying is that a dealership is really a parts/accessories/service center that uses the dirt bikes to get customers in the door to buy...
So what you're saying is that a dealership is really a parts/accessories/service center that uses the dirt bikes to get customers in the door to buy their over priced parts/accessories/service.

Like movie theaters are really concessions stands, that use the movies to get people in the door to buy their overpriced popcorn/soda/candy?
.
To a certain extent, that's exactly right. The dealers that have adapted to becoming online retailers are the ones still going strong... The ones that didn't, aren't.

TailSoHard
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1656
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Beer City, MI, USA
9/3/2015 10:17am
Ill give you guys an example, a few years back we were a Yamaha dealership and were rocking and rolling. This was during the 2001 to...
Ill give you guys an example, a few years back we were a Yamaha dealership and were rocking and rolling. This was during the 2001 to 2009 boom when you couldn't get bikes like YZ450s fast enough. Anyway, a good customer of mine sold a bunch of land and was looking to turn the money on something and told me he would like to talk about a buy out. I told him for the right price we could do something, so he asked for my financials to browse and see what he was getting into. I grabbed a current snapshot and gave it to him to look over. Three days later he came back and handed me the paperwork and said, "I can't believe you can keep afloat with these margins!". He had purchased a PW50 from me for his grandson about a month prior so that sale was on my paperwork. He paid me $1069 plus tax and title for the little bike and he said that in his mind, he figured I made $350 to $400.00 on that sale and he was fine with that. When he looked at the "brass tacks" and found that we made $45.00 on the bike and I had to pay someone to assemble it and he also said he remembered that I spent an hour with him and the grandson going over the operation controls, and test ride of the bike.............Like he said, he could put his money in an average Joe savings account and get that kind of return and just go fishing every day. For most of us it is a love of the sport and the industry that keeps us going day to day. We are for the most part all good people trying to keep people happy, but never lose sight of that yellow line between us. (Signifies a two-way street)
Exactly
flarider
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9/3/2015 10:32am



Premix
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9/3/2015 10:40am
First, ask your dealer when the best time for him to make you a deal. Like, when he Mass orders a bunch of units. Pay him...
First, ask your dealer when the best time for him to make you a deal. Like, when he Mass orders a bunch of units.

Pay him CASH. Or sign your life away on one of them screwy credit cards. (But expect to pay 3% more because that screwy credit card company is screwing your dealer for the transaction)

Second: Buy all your parts from him, even if that pipe costs you $80 more or you have to god forbid pay 7% sales tax on it.

Third: See two.


After the third bike in a few years, your dealer gets real nice. I have a 20 year relationship with my dealer. He tells me when he's going to order alot of units (because then the manufacturer gives him a further discount) he will pass the discount onto you because he won't have to pay a bank interest for the bike to sit on the floor and collect dust.

Don't just walk into a dealership the first nice week in May and expect to get a damn deal. They don't owe you anything. There are plenty of morons that graduate high school every year that get a nice fresh 8,000 line of credit to use on a bike. And if sells to that moron, he only had to deal with him for a few minutes--as opposed to the A-hole who jacks the dealer around for weeks just to jew him down to almost no profit.

Profit isn't a bad thing.


Example of loyalty:
I blew a countershaft bearing Sunday. I needed the bike turned around and fixed by next Saturday. (case split the whole 9, new left case, mill it down to make room for 144 piston etc...) On Sunday my guy already ordered the parts (he was closed) and Tuesday the parts were in. Listed everything on layaway, had the bike back together on Thursday in time to practice for the weekend.

But I buy all my shit from him. All the time. And always he can come within a few bucks of motosport or rocky mountain.
Georgie you ever figure out your miss on the bike?
Steadman
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680
Joined
11/23/2014
Location
CA
9/3/2015 10:56am
Calhoun117 wrote:
I have a hard time believing the $300 profit on a new bike idea too. Even the "okay" I'll sell it at $0 profit just to...
I have a hard time believing the $300 profit on a new bike idea too. Even the "okay" I'll sell it at $0 profit just to take the chance that you'll become loyal and come buy parts...seriously? Sooo how much money are you making on parts? Unless these "loyal" customers are buying shit tons of parts everyday 365 days a year I don't understand why the point of even selling a bike at all is. Props to you guys that do it I guess.
I don't think people are reading his entire post (TailSoHard) He says there is potential to make around $1000 if they were to sell at MSRP. He then goes on to explain how a customer will play the numbers game between a few dealers until all have submitted to such a low profit. It happens. Believe me.
ACBraap
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1174
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Location
Seattlish, WA, USA
Fantasy
9/3/2015 11:01am
We used to be a 5 line dealer and I will tell you a couple secrets.....1. Dealers do not make a ton of money on new...
We used to be a 5 line dealer and I will tell you a couple secrets.....1. Dealers do not make a ton of money on new bikes. 2. Most shops will bend over backwards for a loyal customer that calls them first, buys parts and accessories from them and spread the good word about the shop. NOTHING gets under a dealers skin like walking in and saying "So-and-So Powersports will sell me this bike for $8000 out the door, what can you do?" Build a good relationship with a dealer close by and it will pay off for you over the coming years.

keith101 wrote:
You are kidding I hope. "Dealers don't make a ton of money"...right. Most dealers are crooks in disguise, so while many have tried the loyal route...
You are kidding I hope.

"Dealers don't make a ton of money"...right.

Most dealers are crooks in disguise, so while many have tried the loyal route, dealers are pretty much straight up slime in our book. BTW: Haggling with dealers will be a thing of the past in coming years...sames for Cars, brokers, etc. so get used to it.

Steadman wrote:
Keith you are an ignorant asshole. I have worked for a couple of dealers over the span of 20 years, and I can tell you, they...

Keith you are an ignorant asshole.

I have worked for a couple of dealers over the span of 20 years, and I can tell you, they don't make a ton of money. Most dealers make just enough to keep the doors open and a few people employed. There are a few dealers that may be the exception. The last shop I worked in the owner had to remortgage his home just to keep the doors open, and I can tell you, that family were anything but crooks like you make dealers out to be. They also had a good customer base. People liked to deal with them. Not saying there are not any shitty dealers out there either, they do exist, but people like you who portray all dealers as crooks need to shut up. Let me ask, what do you do for a living?

If people on this forum think dealers are rolling in the cash, then why don't you get a job down at your local shop and reap the rewards of the powersports industry, better yet go open your own shop and see how easy and profitable it is. Then come back on this forum and tell everyone about your new secret to making the big money.

Anyone who talks shit about this industry who has never been directly involved in it don't have a pot to piss in. Don't flap your gums about something you don't know anything about.

Anyone who frowns upon a dealer making ANY sort of money needs to take a step back and have a look at themselves. How did YOU get paid this week? Did the company you own or work for make money? Or heavens no, did they make a profit? Is everyone else in the world allowed to make money with the exception of a dealer?

Am I pissed? Obviously. I'm just so sick of the losers are this forum who talk shit and act like they know.

End rant.



Ever think that maybe both views are right? Small dealers have the best service, and they appear to struggle. I'd gladly support one if there was a good one near me. I've been to some great ones in the past, tons of fun to hang out at, ok prices, but mostly good service and advice. Big dealerships that I've been too have sucky service and "look" like they make a lot of $. I avoid those.

TailSoHard
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Beer City, MI, USA
9/3/2015 11:04am Edited Date/Time 9/3/2015 11:06am
TeamPumpin wrote:
So riddle me this... How does a dealership stay in business, making $0-$500 per vehicle sold? 90% of dealerships that I know of are in large...
So riddle me this... How does a dealership stay in business, making $0-$500 per vehicle sold?
90% of dealerships that I know of are in large, modern buildings along main thorofares where rent / mortgage is definitely not cheap; they have several employees who are having to be paid; they have high overhead due to the cost of inventory, utility bills for said large building, insurance, etc. etc.
A man's personal or business finances are none of my business, but it just puzzles me how everyone who works at or owns a dealership talks about ho much money they LOSE on everything they sell, but yet continue to open up the doors every day, and most of them are still paying a lot of money for advertisements at the local tracks, radio / tv commercials, etc. Wouldn't you just cut your losses and stop advertising so people can come in and rob you blind as they purchase a vehicle on your showroom? Wouldn't you rather just keep the vehicle on your floor as opposed to giving it away or taking a loss on it?
We move the units that won't make us money in order to create room for units that DO make us money. Just like Wal-Mart does, just like Best Buy does, just like restaurants do (Ever wonder why they have nightly "specials? It's cause their shit is about to expire). Sure, we get some help from the manufacturers for inventory control, but it's not always enough. I make money on service, parts, used bikes, new and used ATVs, new and used Side-by-Sides (sometimes), and believe it or not, power equipment (generators, mowers, snowblowers). However, at a certain point, the interest you're paying on floor-planning a new unit becomes more than the loss of profit taken by selling it (until it's paid off obviously). That's the mistake inexperienced managers make. They keep stuff on the floor for so long that they just added that interest to the overall true dealer cost of these units by letting them sit, and then STILL have to sell them for a loss (which, in effect becomes a double-loss). Then they get worried about finding the right person to buy it and how they're going to make every nickel and dime possible that they fail to realize that the sales volume is what you're after, not the margins. The more people in your market that come to you instead of the guy down the road, the less money you have to make per person. Again, you can sell 100 bikes at $300 a piece, or 50 bikes at $600 a piece. Those 50 extra people are (hopefully) going to be coming back for more than just bikes.

There's data out there that suggests the average life-span of someone's ORV career is 20-25 years and they'll end up spending on average about $30k over that 20 year period. Where they spend that $30k and how we get them to give some of it to us it is up to the dealerships. I'm just trying to get my piece of that pie, just like everyone else is...
Steadman
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680
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11/23/2014
Location
CA
9/3/2015 11:05am
TeamPumpin wrote:
So riddle me this... How does a dealership stay in business, making $0-$500 per vehicle sold? 90% of dealerships that I know of are in large...
So riddle me this... How does a dealership stay in business, making $0-$500 per vehicle sold?
90% of dealerships that I know of are in large, modern buildings along main thorofares where rent / mortgage is definitely not cheap; they have several employees who are having to be paid; they have high overhead due to the cost of inventory, utility bills for said large building, insurance, etc. etc.
A man's personal or business finances are none of my business, but it just puzzles me how everyone who works at or owns a dealership talks about ho much money they LOSE on everything they sell, but yet continue to open up the doors every day, and most of them are still paying a lot of money for advertisements at the local tracks, radio / tv commercials, etc. Wouldn't you just cut your losses and stop advertising so people can come in and rob you blind as they purchase a vehicle on your showroom? Wouldn't you rather just keep the vehicle on your floor as opposed to giving it away or taking a loss on it?
I little profit from sales (better numbers on street bikes btw) a little form the parts department and a little from the service department. Sweep it all together and hope that you have enough to pay for employees, rent/mortgage, hydro, heat, insurance etc etc. Like someone said earlier. Those in the industry got into for the love of it. Who wouldn't want to work around bikes all day? Like I said in my post on page one, a lot of dealers just manage to break even for the year, however they are a vital part of a local economy providing jobs and such.

Titan1
Posts
9474
Joined
2/3/2010
Location
Lehi, UT, USA
9/3/2015 11:08am
I still think its ridiculous that the manufacturers can't sell those bikes to dealers cheaper, so dealers can make some money. I just don't understand why the manufacturers would set their dealers up to fail...makes no sense to me.
flarider
Posts
25496
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Daytona Beach, FL, USA
9/3/2015 11:10am
Dealers making little to nothing on new units but making their profits in parts and service has been the norm for decades. As been explained, offer some loyalty on the back end (parts and service) over time, and your dealer will work with you on new units.

And prebuilding bikes with all these accessories makes no sense because you'll likely put on "the wrong accessories" because Joe Customer doesn't like/want that brand for any number of reasons. At the same time, the dealer doesn't technically "own" those bikes on the floor, they're floor planned, or financed, and you have to deduct that from their potential profit as well....every month a bike sits on the floor, the more it costs them to sit there...and not one bike, but all the bikes...it adds up, every month, it adds up.

This thread is another example of people in the industry, who know what they're talking about, who live it every day, helping you and telling you how the industry works, about the business of motorcycles/motocross, and you want to argue with them about it and call them liars and that they're wrong.
Steadman
Posts
680
Joined
11/23/2014
Location
CA
9/3/2015 11:16am
yak651 wrote:
Just checking, how do you guys at dealerships purchase new vehicles? Do you check around for the best price or just pay what is on the...
Just checking, how do you guys at dealerships purchase new vehicles? Do you check around for the best price or just pay what is on the sticker? For you guys that ride that work at a dealership, do you pay MSRP on your new bike or is it ok for the dealership owner not to make money on you?
My last two cars I bought came from...wait for it.....customers (who work at car dealerships) who have bought from me.
The shop was recently landscaped. We hired...wait for it..... one of our customers who does landscaping. You see how that works?

On my car purchases I asked them to do there best, they did, and I purchased.

As for purchasing bikes from the shop. Of course I never paid MSRP. It's call a PERK for working at a dealer, dum-dum
jndmx
Posts
9698
Joined
1/20/2008
Location
South Kingston, RI, USA
9/3/2015 11:16am
flarider wrote:
Dealers making little to nothing on new units but making their profits in parts and service has been the norm for decades. As been explained, offer...
Dealers making little to nothing on new units but making their profits in parts and service has been the norm for decades. As been explained, offer some loyalty on the back end (parts and service) over time, and your dealer will work with you on new units.

And prebuilding bikes with all these accessories makes no sense because you'll likely put on "the wrong accessories" because Joe Customer doesn't like/want that brand for any number of reasons. At the same time, the dealer doesn't technically "own" those bikes on the floor, they're floor planned, or financed, and you have to deduct that from their potential profit as well....every month a bike sits on the floor, the more it costs them to sit there...and not one bike, but all the bikes...it adds up, every month, it adds up.

This thread is another example of people in the industry, who know what they're talking about, who live it every day, helping you and telling you how the industry works, about the business of motorcycles/motocross, and you want to argue with them about it and call them liars and that they're wrong.
Liar......
Laughing Tongue Laughing
loftyair
Posts
2908
Joined
7/3/2009
Location
riverside, CA, USA
9/3/2015 11:18am
I understand a poor person haggling a deal. But the rich f##ks that care about a couple hundred bucks suck! If you got 8k to spend on a bike, why care about a couple hundred? The manufacturer ups the price and it doesn't even register. If your buying a new bike, you got money, so buy local if you can, and pay full price!
TailSoHard
Posts
1656
Joined
10/18/2014
Location
Beer City, MI, USA
9/3/2015 11:22am
Steadman wrote:
My last two cars I bought came from...wait for it.....customers (who work at car dealerships) who have bought from me. The shop was recently landscaped. We...
My last two cars I bought came from...wait for it.....customers (who work at car dealerships) who have bought from me.
The shop was recently landscaped. We hired...wait for it..... one of our customers who does landscaping. You see how that works?

On my car purchases I asked them to do there best, they did, and I purchased.

As for purchasing bikes from the shop. Of course I never paid MSRP. It's call a PERK for working at a dealer, dum-dum
Yup, we just had our driveway and parking lot re-paved by a customer of ours. We have an architect who is a customer doing some work for us on our expansion, which is also going to be built by a different customer of ours. Hell, we even traded a Polaris Ranger for some roofing work we had done a couple years ago.
Steadman
Posts
680
Joined
11/23/2014
Location
CA
9/3/2015 11:33am
Steadman wrote:
My last two cars I bought came from...wait for it.....customers (who work at car dealerships) who have bought from me. The shop was recently landscaped. We...
My last two cars I bought came from...wait for it.....customers (who work at car dealerships) who have bought from me.
The shop was recently landscaped. We hired...wait for it..... one of our customers who does landscaping. You see how that works?

On my car purchases I asked them to do there best, they did, and I purchased.

As for purchasing bikes from the shop. Of course I never paid MSRP. It's call a PERK for working at a dealer, dum-dum
TailSoHard wrote:
Yup, we just had our driveway and parking lot re-paved by a customer of ours. We have an architect who is a customer doing some work...
Yup, we just had our driveway and parking lot re-paved by a customer of ours. We have an architect who is a customer doing some work for us on our expansion, which is also going to be built by a different customer of ours. Hell, we even traded a Polaris Ranger for some roofing work we had done a couple years ago.
I wish more people could see and understand this way of doing business, especially in smaller communities.
Titan1
Posts
9474
Joined
2/3/2010
Location
Lehi, UT, USA
9/3/2015 11:37am
flarider wrote:
Dealers making little to nothing on new units but making their profits in parts and service has been the norm for decades. As been explained, offer...
Dealers making little to nothing on new units but making their profits in parts and service has been the norm for decades. As been explained, offer some loyalty on the back end (parts and service) over time, and your dealer will work with you on new units.

And prebuilding bikes with all these accessories makes no sense because you'll likely put on "the wrong accessories" because Joe Customer doesn't like/want that brand for any number of reasons. At the same time, the dealer doesn't technically "own" those bikes on the floor, they're floor planned, or financed, and you have to deduct that from their potential profit as well....every month a bike sits on the floor, the more it costs them to sit there...and not one bike, but all the bikes...it adds up, every month, it adds up.

This thread is another example of people in the industry, who know what they're talking about, who live it every day, helping you and telling you how the industry works, about the business of motorcycles/motocross, and you want to argue with them about it and call them liars and that they're wrong.
Good to hear from you!

I was the one that made the point about accessorizing bikes...and they don't have to accessorize all of them...leave a few/some/most...whatever demand dictates) stock to sell to those who don't want what is on the customized bike.

If there are issues with the dealer not owning the bike, or other contractual reasons why it can't be done...then I get it.

But I really think the number of people that are going to pass on a new tricked out bike because it has the wrong pipe on it, is minuscule.

If the dealer could keep the mark up on the accessories even close to what they could buy them for from an online retailer (sell them at cost, just to move the bike, or mark up 5% or 10% whatever they can get away with and still have the price inline with the online retailers for the same stuff), it would be a no brainer for most people (assuming they are the type that will be modifying the bike anyway.

I'm currently shopping for a new bike...I'm likely going to purchase a new YZ450. Right now, I can call every dealer in the region and beat them up on price and everything else (which dealers hate), because its the exact same bike, but if there was one dealer that was selling an off road ready (desert tank, skip plates, sparky, stabilizer, hand guards, suspension revalved, etc.-all the stuff I'm going to do to it anyway) and the prices on those additional parts are comparable to what I could buy them for on online...I'd pay extra for the convenience AND they've tilted the shopping table in their favor because no other dealers are doing that, and there isn't an easy apples to apples comparison I can use to beat them up on price. (and maybe they've got a boring looking stocker sitting next to it, that I could buy.)

I'm not one that is going to care if they've got a Scotts or GPR stabilizer, or an FMF or PC sparky or if the tank is IMS or Clark...if they're already on there it LOOKS (which is all but the most serious riders care about anyway) good and is ready to roll...I'm down. And so are most of the kids that are financing their bike to the hilt (along with their $60K lifted Powerstroke in the parking lot).

It just seems crazy that dealers just keep doing the same things over and over and over again and complain they don't make any money...do something different. Set yourself apart. Make your product better/different than the competition to justify higher prices and/or so your customers can't shop as easily.

I've beat this dead horse enough...and I'll drop it now.
hvaughn88
Posts
8361
Joined
6/19/2013
Location
Conway, AR, USA
9/3/2015 11:43am
flarider wrote:
Dealers making little to nothing on new units but making their profits in parts and service has been the norm for decades. As been explained, offer...
Dealers making little to nothing on new units but making their profits in parts and service has been the norm for decades. As been explained, offer some loyalty on the back end (parts and service) over time, and your dealer will work with you on new units.

And prebuilding bikes with all these accessories makes no sense because you'll likely put on "the wrong accessories" because Joe Customer doesn't like/want that brand for any number of reasons. At the same time, the dealer doesn't technically "own" those bikes on the floor, they're floor planned, or financed, and you have to deduct that from their potential profit as well....every month a bike sits on the floor, the more it costs them to sit there...and not one bike, but all the bikes...it adds up, every month, it adds up.

This thread is another example of people in the industry, who know what they're talking about, who live it every day, helping you and telling you how the industry works, about the business of motorcycles/motocross, and you want to argue with them about it and call them liars and that they're wrong.
Titan1 wrote:
Good to hear from you! I was the one that made the point about accessorizing bikes...and they don't have to accessorize all of them...leave a few/some/most...whatever...
Good to hear from you!

I was the one that made the point about accessorizing bikes...and they don't have to accessorize all of them...leave a few/some/most...whatever demand dictates) stock to sell to those who don't want what is on the customized bike.

If there are issues with the dealer not owning the bike, or other contractual reasons why it can't be done...then I get it.

But I really think the number of people that are going to pass on a new tricked out bike because it has the wrong pipe on it, is minuscule.

If the dealer could keep the mark up on the accessories even close to what they could buy them for from an online retailer (sell them at cost, just to move the bike, or mark up 5% or 10% whatever they can get away with and still have the price inline with the online retailers for the same stuff), it would be a no brainer for most people (assuming they are the type that will be modifying the bike anyway.

I'm currently shopping for a new bike...I'm likely going to purchase a new YZ450. Right now, I can call every dealer in the region and beat them up on price and everything else (which dealers hate), because its the exact same bike, but if there was one dealer that was selling an off road ready (desert tank, skip plates, sparky, stabilizer, hand guards, suspension revalved, etc.-all the stuff I'm going to do to it anyway) and the prices on those additional parts are comparable to what I could buy them for on online...I'd pay extra for the convenience AND they've tilted the shopping table in their favor because no other dealers are doing that, and there isn't an easy apples to apples comparison I can use to beat them up on price. (and maybe they've got a boring looking stocker sitting next to it, that I could buy.)

I'm not one that is going to care if they've got a Scotts or GPR stabilizer, or an FMF or PC sparky or if the tank is IMS or Clark...if they're already on there it LOOKS (which is all but the most serious riders care about anyway) good and is ready to roll...I'm down. And so are most of the kids that are financing their bike to the hilt (along with their $60K lifted Powerstroke in the parking lot).

It just seems crazy that dealers just keep doing the same things over and over and over again and complain they don't make any money...do something different. Set yourself apart. Make your product better/different than the competition to justify higher prices and/or so your customers can't shop as easily.

I've beat this dead horse enough...and I'll drop it now.
Wait, wait, wait...where the hell can you get a Powerstroke for $60,000?Tongue
TailSoHard
Posts
1656
Joined
10/18/2014
Location
Beer City, MI, USA
9/3/2015 11:43am
Steadman wrote:
I wish more people could see and understand this way of doing business, especially in smaller communities.
My best friend's father did this when they built a house. He's a dump-truck driver/handyman and would work Sundays for people when they needed an extra hand. A roofing job here, some dry-walling there, and would never ask anyone for a penny for his trouble. For years all he'd tell them was "I don't want your money. I'm happy to help, but keep in mind one day I'm going to ask you for a favor". So, when they day came where he got married, had a kid on the way, and needed to build a house, he called up all those people he had helped over the years and they all got together and built him a house. He had guys jumping at the chance to re-pay him for all the help he'd given them over the years. They ended up in a brand-new three-story, four bedroom, three bathroom, two-stall attached garage home for under $20,000.

It's a shame more people don't see the value in doing things this way...
Federung_USA
Posts
155
Joined
9/3/2015
Location
West Jordan, UT, USA
9/3/2015 11:47am Edited Date/Time 9/3/2015 11:55am
TailSoHard wrote:
I'm a dealer and have been lurking here, but I'm not a Honda dealer at this location so that's why I haven't sent him a quote...otherwise...
I'm a dealer and have been lurking here, but I'm not a Honda dealer at this location so that's why I haven't sent him a quote...otherwise I totally would. I can guarantee you he wouldn't like the quote I send him, but I'd send it either way

It's always funny to me to hear how much money consumers think we dealers make on a brand new bike. I had one guy tell me that he knows for a fact we make roughly $2500 on an $8000 bike sale and I had a tough time not laughing in his face. I'm lucky if I make $300 on a motocross bike these days and here's why:

IF someone pays full-retail for a roughly $8000 bike (which never happens...hence the "IF"), we make less than $1000. Now, when that customer calls around to two different dealers (we'll call them A and B ), he can find dealer A is willing to make only $500 on that sale in order to earn his business. So, he calls dealer B and says "dealer A will do it for a $500 profit, can you do better?" To which they say "I guess if that's what it takes, sure, we'll do it for $350 profit..." So then he calls back to dealer A and yells at them for not giving them their "best price" right from the get-go. So they offer to do it for $100 profit but he says "no, I'm gonna go with dealer B cause they treated me right from the beginning". So he goes back to dealer B and says "dealer A will do it for $100 profit". And then they say "ok, well we'll just do it at $0 profit since you're a local guy and we like to take care of our local customers"... And so on. Then after buying his bike, he wants all his parts to match all the online prices, otherwise he might as well just go buy them online. So, that's what he does since the dealer can't match the price of an online retailer that moves 500 helmets per month when the dealer only sells 20. What blows my mind is that after all that, the dude STILL assumes that the dealer is making thousands on that sale...which is insane. A $300 profit on a year-long $8000 investment is not enough to keep food on the table. For all you people who suck at math, that's a 3% profit that took us a year to get. BUT, that profit got cancelled out by the 2014 model I had to sell at a loss because Mr "I'm a sponsored rider, I deserve a deal" wanted it for less than what Yamaha sold it to me for...

So, yeah, we don't make any money selling you guys motocross bikes...

What the dealers have going for them is the experience. The successful dealerships sell things based on emotions. Most people will literally pay more for the same product just because they like the person selling it or the experience they had while buying it (or having a shitty experience at another dealer). Harley Davidson is a great example. Shit bikes, shit clothes, shit prices, shit people, but they sell 1 out of every 3 bikes sold today. It's all based on the feeling you get from having a Harley. It's the branding. It's the emotion behind the name and the experience.

Not everyone is a "price-shopper". There are people willing to pay more for a product if they have a good experience. Ironically, those are also the people that end up getting the best deals from the dealerships. The loyal ones. As Shane mentioned, it's a two-way street guys. Take an interest in shopping at your local dealership, show them that you care, and they'll bend over backwards for you. The online retailers do business by saying "here's what it costs, take it or leave it, it'll be there in four days". Local dealerships do business by saying "Hey, how are you doing today, sir? What would you like me to do for you?"... See the difference? They're selling you the experience. A relationship. Two people doing business together. Not a person buying from a robot.

And then people wonder why dealerships keep closing and jobs keep getting shipped overseas. It's cause consumers are just that: consumers. They consume. They don't give. Just take and take.

I've said it before: learn how to buy before you complain about how people sell.
Titan1 wrote:
If I were a dealership, I'd start modifying the bikes before I sell them. If I were a Honda Dealer...for example...I'd take a couple of the...
If I were a dealership, I'd start modifying the bikes before I sell them.

If I were a Honda Dealer...for example...I'd take a couple of the new 450's...and make them off road bikes...add a desert tank, skid plates, hand guards, spark arrestor with full FMF exhaust, have the suspension revalved for off road, etc. All already done and ready to go.

Or take 450 and add a full titanium exhaust, offer to revalved the suspension for the riders weight/ability, maybe give them the option of putting different bars/pegs/plastics/graphics/etc. etc. on the bike...take the buyers focus off the sales price of the bike and put it on all the cool stuff they are getting.

Do something to set my bikes apart from the competition. Basically do all the things a rider is going to do to the bike anyway, after they buy it, and charge them for the parts AND convenience (then you can sell all the stock parts on ebay or something)....Maybe you don't make a profit on the parts you add to the bike (but maybe you can even work in a 5% or 10% profit on the parts as well), but it muddies the water a bit when people are trying to shop around...so your bikes is more expensive, but its got all this stuff on it, that they are going to do to it anyway...so they end up paying full MSRP for the bike and you make money.

I see truck dealerships doing this right now...I'm seeing brand new trucks sitting on lots with tires/rims, and a lift all ready to go, and people pay more for those trucks because they look cool.

Why don't dealerships do this?
you should start a dealership based on these "me" goals... let us know how it works out
Xeno
Posts
3742
Joined
12/30/2010
Location
San Clemente, CA, USA
9/3/2015 11:50am
Lots of candid talk today. Very interesting (although somewhat predictable) dialog regarding dealerships.

Has anyone mentioned the folks who were trying to sell dirt bikes at Costco? What happened with that?
TailSoHard
Posts
1656
Joined
10/18/2014
Location
Beer City, MI, USA
9/3/2015 11:54am
Xeno wrote:
Lots of candid talk today. Very interesting (although somewhat predictable) dialog regarding dealerships. Has anyone mentioned the folks who were trying to sell dirt bikes at...
Lots of candid talk today. Very interesting (although somewhat predictable) dialog regarding dealerships.

Has anyone mentioned the folks who were trying to sell dirt bikes at Costco? What happened with that?
We actually do some business with our local Costco from time to time. Polaris has a program where dealers can display units at a Costco and then give special discounts to Costco members. We've sold a few this way, and although it's not making anyone rich, it is a good way to gain a few new customers here and there.

Post a reply to: Hey Dealers: Buying in the next 48 hours, give me your quotes..

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