Can we some kind of poll deciding the 250 2t vs 250 4t issue?

12/7/2008 12:38pm
nothing better than the smell of premix. 2 stroke all the way
DrSweden
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12/7/2008 1:31pm
DrSweden wrote:
Would be so cool to hear the professionals opinion about this 250 2t vs 4t. But they might not be able to be honest since it...
Would be so cool to hear the professionals opinion about this 250 2t vs 4t. But they might not be able to be honest since it could hurt the sales of the Fs?

I think I recall saying DV would prefer doing SX on a 2t before a 4t. He might have changed his opinion?

Would be cool to have a poll asking: Would RV on a PC KX250 beat and RV on aPC KXF250? Might be wrong since he's used to the banger, but you get my point.
Make sense. The gap between a 85/150 to a YZ250 is huge. But they are not forced to it, and the question is really if there's any point for some? But the bald ones, with maybe a limited budget would have a new opportunity.

It seems Malcolm Stewart manage this, and obviously appealed all our good emotions, and maybe not because of the bike choice? but he managed to rule.

Nevertheless, this could be the year of the mechanics, and I'm sure they see the point.
mooch
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12/7/2008 2:08pm
...another 2 stroke vote.

To get my YZ250 to be a bit more tractable, I'm considering a big bore kit and heavier flywheel although it would be good to ride a similarly hopped up YZ just to make sure that I'd like it.
DrSweden
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12/7/2008 2:52pm
mooch wrote:
...another 2 stroke vote. To get my YZ250 to be a bit more tractable, I'm considering a big bore kit and heavier flywheel although it would...
...another 2 stroke vote.

To get my YZ250 to be a bit more tractable, I'm considering a big bore kit and heavier flywheel although it would be good to ride a similarly hopped up YZ just to make sure that I'd like it.
I wonder how much a heavier flywheel does to reduce the ketchup effect? I think I will buy a YZ this summer and tune it down, maybe spice it with a shorty pipe (power low down), heavy flywheel etc.

May sound a bit odd, but I honestly think the 250 smoker have way to much power for average Joe. I bought tires to my previous smoker like nothing else, and I'm sure I where equal slow despite leaving tons of rubber marks on the hard-pack tracks.

The Shop

-eagle-
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12/7/2008 7:10pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 9:26pm
The two stroke is an underdog coming into the fight.
-YAMI & KTM are basically the only one's you can get
-KTM's are a tough sell in MX
-Yami hasn't touched them since 05/06 ish
-Its harder to switch back (unless you're on a budget) after riding 4 strokes.
-And for the general population there is always the "trendy" factor of whats hot.

I'm a two stroke guy for numerous reasons but the bottom line is that I'm faster on a 250f than any other mx bike made. I'd be willing to bet the majority of legit riders in the world are too.

nc_mx_kid
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12/7/2008 7:23pm
I just got a kx250 2stroke instead of a 250F.
I've also got an 09' kx450

its a no brainer
Matt Fisher
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12/7/2008 8:39pm
Pinger.
anniebert
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12/7/2008 9:08pm
2-stroke...
I had the 4 banger and it was fun.
But, went back to the 250 2-stroke though in 08. I felt faster on the 4 stroke, but when I did lap times, the times were pretty much the same. The 2-stroke is more fun, easy on the pocketbook, and the smell of pre-mix is pure.
Mr.Moto
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12/7/2008 11:26pm
DrSweden wrote:
Would be so cool to hear the professionals opinion about this 250 2t vs 4t. But they might not be able to be honest since it...
Would be so cool to hear the professionals opinion about this 250 2t vs 4t. But they might not be able to be honest since it could hurt the sales of the Fs?

I think I recall saying DV would prefer doing SX on a 2t before a 4t. He might have changed his opinion?

Would be cool to have a poll asking: Would RV on a PC KX250 beat and RV on aPC KXF250? Might be wrong since he's used to the banger, but you get my point.
Lets put our money (vote) where your mouth is.
The question 'what is better?' for what? Lap times or for fun, enjoyment, release, the sports future?
Double displacement Four-stroke bikes were an asset when "You were the only one on the starting line with one' - now that the line is full of them they are just a liability to everyone.

Hey All,,, Lets just make the pocket bigger in Pool, lets make the Williams sisters rackets longer,,, lets lower the basket in Basketball too. In golf, open a course with foot wide holes!

Pit bikes became the rage because they introduced fun back into motocross.. that never happened when 125s were prevalent nor did fuel injection become Brochure fodder.. nor did electric start become 'nice'.... to use the parlance of the early nineties 'what gives?'

It's 'all good'... not... cost of running a two-fifty-ef team @ sixty grand..... yeah nice.
While all of the magazine tests compliment a four-stroke by saying it "feels almost as agile as a two-stoke". Nice progress.
jtomasik
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12/8/2008 12:03am
Mr.Moto wrote:
Lets put our money (vote) where your mouth is. The question 'what is better?' for what? Lap times or for fun, enjoyment, release, the sports future...
Lets put our money (vote) where your mouth is.
The question 'what is better?' for what? Lap times or for fun, enjoyment, release, the sports future?
Double displacement Four-stroke bikes were an asset when "You were the only one on the starting line with one' - now that the line is full of them they are just a liability to everyone.

Hey All,,, Lets just make the pocket bigger in Pool, lets make the Williams sisters rackets longer,,, lets lower the basket in Basketball too. In golf, open a course with foot wide holes!

Pit bikes became the rage because they introduced fun back into motocross.. that never happened when 125s were prevalent nor did fuel injection become Brochure fodder.. nor did electric start become 'nice'.... to use the parlance of the early nineties 'what gives?'

It's 'all good'... not... cost of running a two-fifty-ef team @ sixty grand..... yeah nice.
While all of the magazine tests compliment a four-stroke by saying it "feels almost as agile as a two-stoke". Nice progress.
I hate newbies who know what they're talking about.


Premix?
Mr.Moto
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12/8/2008 6:19pm
Yes, premix..... I was premixed when I contrived that... just wish it was front-center.
Braaaap.
Camp332
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12/8/2008 7:11pm
Camp332 wrote:
What is a 4T?

4 Toke?

What is a 2T?

2 Toke?

Sweden you going to answer me? What the hell is the "T"?
The Rock
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12/8/2008 11:40pm
Oldmotoguy wrote:
so will a 350 t be out of the question? or a 450 2 smoke if they are doing it at the 250 cc level,then why...
so will a 350 t be out of the question? or a 450 2 smoke

if they are doing it at the 250 cc level,then why not the big bore class ??
You will not see a 350 four stroke from a Japanese OEM anytime in the near future.

My bigger guess is you will see Japanese OEMs dust off their 250 two stroke tooling and reintroduce them to slow the exodus of people leaving the sport due to costs.

Re energizing the two stroke market will also bring more people back into racing since the cost of entry will be so much lower.

Bottom line the two strokes being basically chased out of the sport has been bad for the sport, bad for families without deep pockets, bad for riders making the jump from minis to big bikes. Crazy to have 14 to 15 year old kids on 450 four strokes.....
croom mx
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12/9/2008 6:07am
From my experience it depends on the track. Here in florida the sand can get really bad rough. So a 250 2 stroke is great. But on hard pack I like the four stroke. Most riders have not ridden in 100 degree heat and sand whoops 5 feet deep. In that enviroment a light weight bike with a responsive engine is great.
RACERX69
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12/9/2008 6:20am
Oldmotoguy wrote:
so will a 350 t be out of the question? or a 450 2 smoke if they are doing it at the 250 cc level,then why...
so will a 350 t be out of the question? or a 450 2 smoke

if they are doing it at the 250 cc level,then why not the big bore class ??
The Rock wrote:
You will not see a 350 four stroke from a Japanese OEM anytime in the near future. My bigger guess is you will see Japanese OEMs...
You will not see a 350 four stroke from a Japanese OEM anytime in the near future.

My bigger guess is you will see Japanese OEMs dust off their 250 two stroke tooling and reintroduce them to slow the exodus of people leaving the sport due to costs.

Re energizing the two stroke market will also bring more people back into racing since the cost of entry will be so much lower.

Bottom line the two strokes being basically chased out of the sport has been bad for the sport, bad for families without deep pockets, bad for riders making the jump from minis to big bikes. Crazy to have 14 to 15 year old kids on 450 four strokes.....
All good points Rock. Hope you're right.

As a fan, my interest in going to the races has waned considerably since the 4-stroke took over. Not sure how to explain it but, the excitment factor just doesn't seem to be as high when spectating at these 4-stroke events. It's like lethargy in motion. They're just boring to watch. To me, nothing warms the heart like watching/listening to a skilled 2-stroke rider carve up an MX or SX track. I know it's silly, but true.

I hope the silver lining in this crappy economy will be the return of the 2-stroke. Maybe the manufacturers will be forced to take a very hard look at their current business plan and make some changes to re-stimulate sales. ie--bringing back the 2-stroke!
CR250Rider
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12/9/2008 7:10am
build a 205 lb, 300cc 2T and it's OVER.


-eagle-
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12/9/2008 7:57am
CR250Rider wrote:
build a 205 lb, 300cc 2T and it's OVER.


agreed.
would love to see it.
Matt Fisher
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12/9/2008 8:50am
CR250Rider wrote:
build a 205 lb, 300cc 2T and it's OVER.


-eagle- wrote:
agreed.
would love to see it.
If the AMA / Live Nation / MX Sports / FIM groups announced today that such a bike would be legal against the 450's in Pro racing, KTM would have one available next Tuesday.

Honda on the other hand, would whine about it for years.
Camp332
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12/9/2008 8:51am
"T"

bunch of freakin asshats!
Oldmotoguy
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12/9/2008 9:06am
CR250Rider wrote:
build a 205 lb, 300cc 2T and it's OVER.


i want a 350 cc 2 smoke..for us bigger guys
CR250Rider
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12/9/2008 9:32am
yeah, i could prob use a few more cc's too.....Huh
-eagle-
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12/9/2008 10:53am
Every time this topic comes up, the big bore 250 comes up with it.
SOmeone on here once said that a 300exc top end would go on the ktm 250sx. I asked and searched for a while and never found any more info on that. With a few 300 threads going around right now maybe someone would know.
teggers
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12/9/2008 11:08am
Ask Malcolm. 8 for 8 at the Mini O's and I watched at least 4 holeshots....and 4 of those 8 were against 450's with at least 2 holeshots against them.
Ozzy
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12/9/2008 11:20am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 9:27pm
250 vs 250F to me isn't good.
The amateur ranks lately are proving that.
Horsepower/dyno experience tells me so as well.
They don't belong together.
It's not really fair.
Hard to believe for some, but the F's are at a
disadvantage, clearly.........
450's go better with them, yet I'm not for that either.
As this modern era came to be, by example look back at
RC & KW battling. 250 2stk. vs 450F. It seemed like it worked
at first, but as time went on RC had to step up to the 450.
Had to.
Sure at times, certain tracks in or out can have an "even Steven"
situation, but for the norm I think not.
To too many differences.....power to weight, etc.
Each belongs with their peers.
250 2stks race the same.....
250F's race the same..............
450F's race the same..................
"safety & points are a terrible thing to waste"......
Dave O.Wink
rocrac
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12/9/2008 11:26am
Ozzy wrote:
250 vs 250F to me isn't good. The amateur ranks lately are proving that. Horsepower/dyno experience tells me so as well. They don't belong together. It's...
250 vs 250F to me isn't good.
The amateur ranks lately are proving that.
Horsepower/dyno experience tells me so as well.
They don't belong together.
It's not really fair.
Hard to believe for some, but the F's are at a
disadvantage, clearly.........
450's go better with them, yet I'm not for that either.
As this modern era came to be, by example look back at
RC & KW battling. 250 2stk. vs 450F. It seemed like it worked
at first, but as time went on RC had to step up to the 450.
Had to.
Sure at times, certain tracks in or out can have an "even Steven"
situation, but for the norm I think not.
To too many differences.....power to weight, etc.
Each belongs with their peers.
250 2stks race the same.....
250F's race the same..............
450F's race the same..................
"safety & points are a terrible thing to waste"......
Dave O.Wink
Do you not think that the ridiculous costs of building and maintaining competitive 250f motors hurt the smaller teams and privateers?
rocrac
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12/9/2008 11:26am Edited Date/Time 12/9/2008 11:27am
Ozzy wrote:
250 vs 250F to me isn't good. The amateur ranks lately are proving that. Horsepower/dyno experience tells me so as well. They don't belong together. It's...
250 vs 250F to me isn't good.
The amateur ranks lately are proving that.
Horsepower/dyno experience tells me so as well.
They don't belong together.
It's not really fair.
Hard to believe for some, but the F's are at a
disadvantage, clearly.........
450's go better with them, yet I'm not for that either.
As this modern era came to be, by example look back at
RC & KW battling. 250 2stk. vs 450F. It seemed like it worked
at first, but as time went on RC had to step up to the 450.
Had to.
Sure at times, certain tracks in or out can have an "even Steven"
situation, but for the norm I think not.
To too many differences.....power to weight, etc.
Each belongs with their peers.
250 2stks race the same.....
250F's race the same..............
450F's race the same..................
"safety & points are a terrible thing to waste"......
Dave O.Wink
Ooops
Camp332
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12/9/2008 11:27am
^^ Say it again!
rocrac
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12/9/2008 11:28am
Camp332 wrote:
^^ Say it again!
ooops
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12/9/2008 11:35am
I've ridden 4 strokes. The ONLY place I liked a 450 F was in the dunes, BUT, I didn't like it as much as an old CR 500 with a 10 or 12 paddle.

I can rebuild a 2 stroke blindfolded, all by feel. I will never buy a 4 stroke unless its a road ridden machine, and that is under protest.

I have zero interest in anything 4 stroke for off road, except Honda Generators.

Cygnus
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12/9/2008 11:36am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 9:27pm
Camp332 wrote:
"T"

bunch of freakin asshats!
it has something to do with german abbreviation


The "T" is short for Takt time. Comes from a German word taktzeit which translates to clock cycle



Guess who looks like an asshat now ?

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