Can we some kind of poll deciding the 250 2t vs 250 4t issue?

DrSweden
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Edited Date/Time 1/24/2012 12:52pm
Would be so cool to hear the professionals opinion about this 250 2t vs 4t. But they might not be able to be honest since it could hurt the sales of the Fs?

I think I recall saying DV would prefer doing SX on a 2t before a 4t. He might have changed his opinion?

Would be cool to have a poll asking: Would RV on a PC KX250 beat and RV on aPC KXF250? Might be wrong since he's used to the banger, but you get my point.
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12/6/2008 4:06pm
What would be cool is to not get opinions but a simply 2stroke or 4stroke answer anonymously. Opinions can be bought.
Lets Start
2stroke or
4stroke
Oldmotoguy
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12/6/2008 4:39pm Edited Date/Time 12/6/2008 4:40pm
i'll go for the 250T..stone reliable and easy to start

mxjef
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12/6/2008 4:48pm
Oldmotoguy wrote:
i'll go for the 250T..stone reliable and easy to start

and a lot more fun to ride....
DrSweden
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12/6/2008 4:54pm
I agree with both of you. Despite what we feel, people (me including) seems to buy the 4t?

The Shop

Oldmotoguy
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12/6/2008 4:56pm
BRRRRRRRRRRRRaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaapppppppppppppppppppppppppp

easy to fix..inexpensive
WSR
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12/6/2008 5:53pm
DrSweden wrote:
I agree with both of you. Despite what we feel, people (me including) seems to buy the 4t?
They're sheep.
It's available so people will buy it.
WORCSRacer
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12/6/2008 6:06pm
Why bother with a poll....

1) The marketplace voted and thus far the two stroke lost.

2) This year "250cc" means "250cc" including at the the pro level.


Game on.
12/6/2008 6:27pm Edited Date/Time 12/6/2008 6:27pm
The truth is, the fat lazy vet riders will stick with the easy to ride 4 stroke, me, my 250 has no valves in the head.


Besides next year it will all be answered.
Micah
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12/6/2008 6:29pm
It will be neet to see. But power to weight ratio dictates. a well practiced pro rider should be able to do better on the 2 stroker than on the f
12/6/2008 7:06pm
i have more fun on the 2 but since im more of a beginner rider im faster on the 4 due to the smooth power...
Tiki
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Fantasy
12/6/2008 7:36pm
Can we just kill the EPA and be done with it?
WhKnuckle
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12/7/2008 3:15am
WORCSRacer wrote:
Why bother with a poll.... 1) The marketplace voted and thus far the two stroke lost. 2) This year "250cc" means "250cc" including at the the...
Why bother with a poll....

1) The marketplace voted and thus far the two stroke lost.

2) This year "250cc" means "250cc" including at the the pro level.


Game on.
But the market wasn't considering a 250T vs a 250F - the market was considering a 250T vs a 450. If it had always been a question of a bike for the 250 class with no displacement advantage for a four stroke, I doubt you'd have seen very many 250Fs at your local track. A 250T is more powerful, more reliable, much easier and cheaper to maintain, has a lower center of gravity so it handles better, and is more fun to ride. The only advantage to a 250F is a flatter powerband.
WSR
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12/7/2008 3:27am
Tiki wrote:
Can we just kill the EPA and be done with it?
That's a reasonable solution.
Camp332
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12/7/2008 5:40am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 9:25pm
What is a 4T?

4 Toke?

What is a 2T?

2 Toke?

ky_savage
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12/7/2008 6:16am
Camp332 wrote:
What is a 4T?

4 Toke?

What is a 2T?

2 Toke?

I've wondered myself. lol..
jay_547
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12/7/2008 6:24am
i'm a fat, lazy vet rider and i still ride/race a two stroke.
R-acer
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12/7/2008 6:38am
WORCSRacer wrote:
Why bother with a poll.... 1) The marketplace voted and thus far the two stroke lost. 2) This year "250cc" means "250cc" including at the the...
Why bother with a poll....

1) The marketplace voted and thus far the two stroke lost.

2) This year "250cc" means "250cc" including at the the pro level.


Game on.
This is what I am thinking too.
jtomasik
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12/7/2008 7:00am
WORCSRacer wrote:
Why bother with a poll.... 1) The marketplace voted and thus far the two stroke lost. 2) This year "250cc" means "250cc" including at the the...
Why bother with a poll....

1) The marketplace voted and thus far the two stroke lost.

2) This year "250cc" means "250cc" including at the the pro level.


Game on.
R-acer wrote:
This is what I am thinking too.
You're thinking wrong. Unfair rules biased the market, and now the big four have re-tooled to support the 4-stroke (at your expense). The vote was unfairly influenced.

It's an uphill battle for the 2-stroke to climb out of this one. To really turn things around, they might even have to bias the rules to favor the 2-stroke for awhile...although it's highly unlikely we'll see that happen.

Regardless, if it's true we'll get even displacement rules, that's about the best I could hope for. Maybe a team like KTM or even Yamaha can capitalize on this.
WORCSRacer
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12/7/2008 8:03am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 9:25pm
WhKnuckle wrote:
But the market wasn't considering a 250T vs a 250F - the market was considering a 250T vs a 450. If it had always been a...
But the market wasn't considering a 250T vs a 250F - the market was considering a 250T vs a 450. If it had always been a question of a bike for the 250 class with no displacement advantage for a four stroke, I doubt you'd have seen very many 250Fs at your local track. A 250T is more powerful, more reliable, much easier and cheaper to maintain, has a lower center of gravity so it handles better, and is more fun to ride. The only advantage to a 250F is a flatter powerband.
You make a good point however that didn't happen soooooo.....


The people inside the industry are becoming painfully aware something needs to be done to keep costs in check for amateurs. This is step one. Allowing them heads up in the Pro's is as much marketing as anything else. Privateers are not who they are considering with this move, its to help Local Joe Moto.


I like the two stroke as much as anyone but they just aren't as dominant as you think they are against a 250F. It going to be a battle to get people (mostly the kids who buy as a fashion statement) thinking about them as a viable option.
WhKnuckle
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12/7/2008 8:56am
WhKnuckle wrote:
But the market wasn't considering a 250T vs a 250F - the market was considering a 250T vs a 450. If it had always been a...
But the market wasn't considering a 250T vs a 250F - the market was considering a 250T vs a 450. If it had always been a question of a bike for the 250 class with no displacement advantage for a four stroke, I doubt you'd have seen very many 250Fs at your local track. A 250T is more powerful, more reliable, much easier and cheaper to maintain, has a lower center of gravity so it handles better, and is more fun to ride. The only advantage to a 250F is a flatter powerband.
WORCSRacer wrote:
You make a good point however that didn't happen soooooo..... The people inside the industry are becoming painfully aware something needs to be done to keep...
You make a good point however that didn't happen soooooo.....


The people inside the industry are becoming painfully aware something needs to be done to keep costs in check for amateurs. This is step one. Allowing them heads up in the Pro's is as much marketing as anything else. Privateers are not who they are considering with this move, its to help Local Joe Moto.


I like the two stroke as much as anyone but they just aren't as dominant as you think they are against a 250F. It going to be a battle to get people (mostly the kids who buy as a fashion statement) thinking about them as a viable option.
A 250F's flatter power band helps it a lot, but I just can't imagine a rider who can't go faster on a 250T than a 250F. In motocross the rider is always THE factor, and the best rider would undoubtedly win any matchup, in the same way that James Stewart could climb on any bike on the gate and win a national. But it's hard for me to imagine a scenario in which a 250F is a better motocross weapon than a 250T.
jtomasik
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12/7/2008 9:01am
WhKnuckle wrote:
A 250F's flatter power band helps it a lot, but I just can't imagine a rider who can't go faster on a 250T than a 250F...
A 250F's flatter power band helps it a lot, but I just can't imagine a rider who can't go faster on a 250T than a 250F. In motocross the rider is always THE factor, and the best rider would undoubtedly win any matchup, in the same way that James Stewart could climb on any bike on the gate and win a national. But it's hard for me to imagine a scenario in which a 250F is a better motocross weapon than a 250T.
No kidding. A flywheeled two stroke will get the power to the ground for the average guy. An opened up 250T in the hands of a pro? Sheesh. Big advantage. Now, in the 450 class, the story might be a bit different. But in the 250's, I'd put my money on the pro riding the smoker.
WORCSRacer
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12/7/2008 9:34am
WhKnuckle wrote:
A 250F's flatter power band helps it a lot, but I just can't imagine a rider who can't go faster on a 250T than a 250F...
A 250F's flatter power band helps it a lot, but I just can't imagine a rider who can't go faster on a 250T than a 250F. In motocross the rider is always THE factor, and the best rider would undoubtedly win any matchup, in the same way that James Stewart could climb on any bike on the gate and win a national. But it's hard for me to imagine a scenario in which a 250F is a better motocross weapon than a 250T.
jtomasik wrote:
No kidding. A flywheeled two stroke will get the power to the ground for the average guy. An opened up 250T in the hands of a...
No kidding. A flywheeled two stroke will get the power to the ground for the average guy. An opened up 250T in the hands of a pro? Sheesh. Big advantage. Now, in the 450 class, the story might be a bit different. But in the 250's, I'd put my money on the pro riding the smoker.
If 250F's can compete with 450F's and a 450F stomps a 250T....

It ain't going to be easy boys.
jtomasik
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12/7/2008 9:43am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 9:25pm
WORCSRacer wrote:
If 250F's can compete with 450F's and a 450F stomps a 250T....

It ain't going to be easy boys.
A 250T does indeed compete with the 450's. In fact, a 250F never won a pro MX championship against a 450F, whereas a 250T did (Carmichael was doing it). In fact, they're still doing it! 250T's racing against 450's in other off road events are still winning, whereas the 250F winning over the 450 is very, very rare. I think you have things turned around a bit.


Just by the numbers, a bike with 10 extra horsepower and at least 15 lbs. less weight is going to be an advantage in the hands of a pro.

You, of anyone here, should know these facts.
Oldmotoguy
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12/7/2008 9:45am
so will a 350 t be out of the question? or a 450 2 smoke

if they are doing it at the 250 cc level,then why not the big bore class ??
WORCSRacer
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12/7/2008 9:57am
jtomasik wrote:
A 250T does indeed compete with the 450's. In fact, a 250F never won a pro MX championship against a 450F, whereas a 250T did (Carmichael...
A 250T does indeed compete with the 450's. In fact, a 250F never won a pro MX championship against a 450F, whereas a 250T did (Carmichael was doing it). In fact, they're still doing it! 250T's racing against 450's in other off road events are still winning, whereas the 250F winning over the 450 is very, very rare. I think you have things turned around a bit.


Just by the numbers, a bike with 10 extra horsepower and at least 15 lbs. less weight is going to be an advantage in the hands of a pro.

You, of anyone here, should know these facts.
ah John what do I know, I'm broken down and washed up...
jtomasik
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12/7/2008 11:18am Edited Date/Time 12/7/2008 11:48am
WORCSRacer wrote:
ah John what do I know, I'm broken down and washed up...
Yeah, right. And, I don't take kindly to competition. I'm the GOAT of being old and washed up. Back off.
DrSweden
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12/7/2008 11:26am
Damn, 2T means 2-stroke in Swedish! My fault! Smile

Keep posting people. Good input!
TerryK
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12/7/2008 11:39am
2 stroke.....obviously.
Moto547
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12/7/2008 11:51am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2016 9:25pm
TerryK wrote:
2 stroke.....obviously.
144 2 stroke/250 2 stroke
With the right riders of course, will BOTH whoop up on a 250f.
Ive witnessed it a FEW times. 250T and 450 tho Im gonna have
to say the 450 has a pretty good advantage even with the power/weight ratio...
So im gonna have to agree with you.
12/7/2008 11:58am
Since the subject has been changed a little I'll chime in. When I was 12 or 13 I was riding around a 250 2str. but I damn sure wasn't racing them nor was my peers. I went from 80's to 125 to 250's. To think of a kid going through the ranks having to go from an 85 to a 250 2 stroke or 4 stroke is a little ridiculous.
Think of the troubles JS and RC had when they moved up to the 250. This was after being on a 125. I wonder what kind of trouble they would have had if they where going from an 80 to a 250. The 450 is esentially an open bike, tire size and all. Why not have 125, 250 and open? Whatever stroke you prefer.

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