Little Kids on the "Big Track" or even the "Vet Track"...

Cygnus
Profile picture for user Cygnus
Posts
14846
Joined
8/15/2006
Location
Hanover, CO US
Cygnus 6/4/2015 9:47am
6/4/2015 9:47am
scottydogmx wrote:
Here in the UK kids have been grouped separately for sometime with flaggers on every jump. Before this happened I had the misfortune of seeing a...
Here in the UK kids have been grouped separately for sometime with flaggers on every jump.
Before this happened I had the misfortune of seeing a 9 year old kid in his dads arms shortly before he died from head - neck injuries after an adult landed on him on the blind side of a jump. I can't begin to imagine how the parents or the rider felt, all I know I went home and took my kids bikes down the shop to be sold that day.
As much as I hate waiting for groups at my local practice tracks I do understand and support it .
Why punish your kids for some other persons stupidity. Makes no sense to me. Lame dad.
Tracktor
Profile picture for user Tracktor
Posts
2343
Joined
8/17/2006
Location
The RTF/Amboy, WA US
Tracktor 6/4/2015 10:04am
6/4/2015 10:04am
As a dad of a couple of relatively fast mini kids I completely agree they shouldn't be on the track with big bikes. My 65 kid can jump most anything and carries his line well. Most of the time that would be fine. That said if somehow he comes together with a big bike he is going to come out on the worse end most times. It's just a matter of mass. I think it's absolute stupidity on the part of both tracks & parents to mix minis and big bikes.
The video above from Riverdale in Washington is the same track that had a recent death. Not from mixing but from other issues. Fun track but we choose not to go there because they mix practices.
At a minimum run big bike/little big in 20 minute motos or 30 minute motos...............
scottydogmx 6/4/2015 10:10am
6/4/2015 10:10am
"Some other persons stupidity"? Don't really get what your saying? It was the norm back then for kids to be on practice tracks at the same time and was more grouped on capability, so there wasn't really another option other than the kid not to ride. As for punishing my kids, I didn't see it that way at the time, more like I didn't think I could have coped with knowing that it could happen and if I hadn't done anything to stop it, it really played with my head how dangerous the sport was, still is.
kmk371
Profile picture for user kmk371
Posts
20
Joined
8/13/2011
Location
Wildomar, CA US
kmk371 6/4/2015 10:47am
6/4/2015 10:47am
funny I was just thinking this. I rode Perris last night and got hooked up with another big bike on the track. We rode together for about 4 or 5 laps and there were several instances where we both had to check up not to land on slower riders. One instance we both hit a double and had to immediately split an 85 rider that we didn't see going off the face (he was rolling everything all day on the main track). He went left I went right around the kid. How can the kids even enjoy ridding? that had to be somewhat scary for him.

The Shop

See All »
huck
Profile picture for user huck
Posts
17024
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Mountain Home, AR US
huck 6/4/2015 10:48am
6/4/2015 10:48am
I didn't even think Milestone had flaggers?
mxtryon231
Profile picture for user mxtryon231
Posts
1891
Joined
2/9/2009
Location
Beverly Hills, CA US
mxtryon231 6/4/2015 10:49am
6/4/2015 10:49am
Go ride Cahuilla, problem solved.
Ing
Profile picture for user Ing
Posts
3654
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Spring Hill, FL US
Ing 6/4/2015 11:51am
6/4/2015 11:51am
What I always hated about practicing with the under 100cc crowd was when they would blow by me on the track when I was on my 500.
chillrich
Profile picture for user chillrich
Posts
647
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Kamloops CA
chillrich 6/4/2015 1:13pm
6/4/2015 1:13pm
Here is the way I see it;
50s and beginner 65s on the mini track

experienced 65 (beginner 85) on big tracks with a parent riding behind. Coached to hold their line and use proper track safety practices. Also, parents must factor in who else is on the track and gauge whether it is safe. ie wait for a lull when there are slower riders if possible.

Experienced 85 can ride big track alone. These are the tracks they race and they are quicker than many big bikes. They should be coached to be cautious when not clearing big jumps as this is the only place 25-50 year old Johnny Wannabe novice on his $12K blinged out 450 (actually a 478cc) will be able to pass them because the 85 rider has much more skill and corner speed.

Just my opinion, now I have to put some more anodized parts on my 478cc machine, my son is getting faster.Wink

casper
Profile picture for user casper
Posts
557
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
San Diego, CA US
casper 6/4/2015 1:37pm
6/4/2015 1:37pm
I'm running into this problem with my girlfriend riding. She rides a 250f but is a beginner track rider. Some people get bent out of shape when she rides the beginner track on a full sized bike(i'm not talking about the 50cc peewee tracks) but she's not fast enough or skilled enough to do a Vet track when it's crowded. If any one has ridden Pala, you can tell there's a big jump in size and difficulty of the tracks going from the beginner track to the Vet track.
Torco1
Profile picture for user Torco1
Posts
6585
Joined
4/27/2007
Location
Corona, CA US
Torco1 6/4/2015 1:38pm
6/4/2015 1:38pm
huck wrote:
I didn't even think Milestone had flaggers?
They didn't for a long time.
TeamGreen
Profile picture for user TeamGreen
Posts
36706
Joined
11/25/2008
Location
Thru-out, CA US
TeamGreen 6/4/2015 1:59pm
6/4/2015 1:59pm
kmk371 wrote:
funny I was just thinking this. I rode Perris last night and got hooked up with another big bike on the track. We rode together for...
funny I was just thinking this. I rode Perris last night and got hooked up with another big bike on the track. We rode together for about 4 or 5 laps and there were several instances where we both had to check up not to land on slower riders. One instance we both hit a double and had to immediately split an 85 rider that we didn't see going off the face (he was rolling everything all day on the main track). He went left I went right around the kid. How can the kids even enjoy ridding? that had to be somewhat scary for him.
During the worst of all of this, yesterday...

I was doing laps with a young man chasing me and threatening to put his FC250 right up inside my line in EVERY DAMN TURN...it was AWESOME!!!

Well, during about 6-7 laps...we had 3 HAIR-BALL SCARES...twice with the same damn kid...on a F'n 50...& get this...

The kid was taking lessons/getting instruction from some "riding coach"...or whatever the guy claims to call himself.

At one point, I was jumping a "Wall-Combo" into a turn and had to signal, in the air, to "SLOW DOWN" (left hand waiving 'down'...F'n frantically!) to the Husky 250...in the Air: I was mid-air and he was launching...NICELY...& there's this poor lil'kid...right in the turn-entry-landing...RIGHT WHERE WE'RE ABOUT TO LAND...we slid-slipped Waaaaaay-Waaaaaay Wide and slid around the VERY EDGE of the Berm...built up SX style berm...Thankfully...

I could hear the Husky-Pilot, early 20's, say...OUT-LOUD..."Damn!" as we completed our turn and wound it up again. Get this: I could tell he WAS NOT INTERESTED in "passing" under these circumstances...this guy was "just a dude" who was set on ripping by me-n-my 450 "honest"...this kid was a cool Mo'Fo!

Anyhow...Mr. FC250 turned out to be an Ex-Track-Medic...at MILESTONE...turned Nurse (cool!) & he was all rev'd up about our mini-Moto and re-in-acted the scene of me waving in the air and (I didn't realize this: signaling, I was looking back at him & giving him a thumbs up on exit! STOKED)...this kid was soooo cool that he gave me hope!

Well, that was my day....yesterday...

My intent is So Very SIMPLE: I just want EVERYONE leaving the track & going home stoked and smiling.

ESPECIALLY THE LITTLE ONES.

Manny
TeamGreen
Profile picture for user TeamGreen
Posts
36706
Joined
11/25/2008
Location
Thru-out, CA US
TeamGreen 6/4/2015 2:01pm
6/4/2015 2:01pm
casper wrote:
I'm running into this problem with my girlfriend riding. She rides a 250f but is a beginner track rider. Some people get bent out of shape...
I'm running into this problem with my girlfriend riding. She rides a 250f but is a beginner track rider. Some people get bent out of shape when she rides the beginner track on a full sized bike(i'm not talking about the 50cc peewee tracks) but she's not fast enough or skilled enough to do a Vet track when it's crowded. If any one has ridden Pala, you can tell there's a big jump in size and difficulty of the tracks going from the beginner track to the Vet track.
Believe it or not...

The Am track at Pala seems safest.
kmk371
Profile picture for user kmk371
Posts
20
Joined
8/13/2011
Location
Wildomar, CA US
kmk371 6/4/2015 2:32pm
6/4/2015 2:32pm
TeamGreen wrote:
During the worst of all of this, yesterday... I was doing laps with a young man chasing me and threatening to put his FC250 right up...
During the worst of all of this, yesterday...

I was doing laps with a young man chasing me and threatening to put his FC250 right up inside my line in EVERY DAMN TURN...it was AWESOME!!!

Well, during about 6-7 laps...we had 3 HAIR-BALL SCARES...twice with the same damn kid...on a F'n 50...& get this...

The kid was taking lessons/getting instruction from some "riding coach"...or whatever the guy claims to call himself.

At one point, I was jumping a "Wall-Combo" into a turn and had to signal, in the air, to "SLOW DOWN" (left hand waiving 'down'...F'n frantically!) to the Husky 250...in the Air: I was mid-air and he was launching...NICELY...& there's this poor lil'kid...right in the turn-entry-landing...RIGHT WHERE WE'RE ABOUT TO LAND...we slid-slipped Waaaaaay-Waaaaaay Wide and slid around the VERY EDGE of the Berm...built up SX style berm...Thankfully...

I could hear the Husky-Pilot, early 20's, say...OUT-LOUD..."Damn!" as we completed our turn and wound it up again. Get this: I could tell he WAS NOT INTERESTED in "passing" under these circumstances...this guy was "just a dude" who was set on ripping by me-n-my 450 "honest"...this kid was a cool Mo'Fo!

Anyhow...Mr. FC250 turned out to be an Ex-Track-Medic...at MILESTONE...turned Nurse (cool!) & he was all rev'd up about our mini-Moto and re-in-acted the scene of me waving in the air and (I didn't realize this: signaling, I was looking back at him & giving him a thumbs up on exit! STOKED)...this kid was soooo cool that he gave me hope!

Well, that was my day....yesterday...

My intent is So Very SIMPLE: I just want EVERYONE leaving the track & going home stoked and smiling.

ESPECIALLY THE LITTLE ONES.

Manny
yep! sounds like a very similar situation on a very similar style track. I understand its motocross which is inherently dangerous and everyone has the same right to be out on the same track but why do people go out on the track or put their kids on the track when they know that will significantly raise the level of danger with their presence on the track combined with that of older/ faster riders. It just blows my mind
huck
Profile picture for user huck
Posts
17024
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Mountain Home, AR US
huck 6/4/2015 2:40pm
6/4/2015 2:40pm
I'm not sure why tracks in California don't split practice for different ages and abilities?

Around here (yes, I know we don't have the numbers as California has) there is usually a big bike A/B, big bike C/D, then a couple little bike groups. Seems that would be WAY safer than just a free for all!!!

machine
Profile picture for user machine
Posts
6404
Joined
1/5/2011
Location
Collettsville, NC US
machine 6/4/2015 2:51pm
6/4/2015 2:51pm
huck wrote:
I'm not sure why tracks in California don't split practice for different ages and abilities? Around here (yes, I know we don't have the numbers as...
I'm not sure why tracks in California don't split practice for different ages and abilities?

Around here (yes, I know we don't have the numbers as California has) there is usually a big bike A/B, big bike C/D, then a couple little bike groups. Seems that would be WAY safer than just a free for all!!!

That rarely occurs here, unless its a track that only opens up for practice like once a month.
the_wood109
Profile picture for user the_wood109
Posts
3008
Joined
7/6/2008
Location
Edgewater, FL US
the_wood109 6/4/2015 3:07pm
6/4/2015 3:07pm
The mini rider thing can be tough if you have kids that are every bit as fast, or faster than expert riders. It's a skill thing...not age or size.
aFACEdismembered 6/4/2015 3:10pm
6/4/2015 3:10pm
This doesn't work in every case but there is a guy around here who lets his kid do it on a SX50, but he rides behind him by about 30-40 feet. Anyone behind has to hit him before hitting his kid. A lot easier to see a grown up and once you know what he is doing, anytime you see him you know what to look out for.
mark911
Profile picture for user mark911
Posts
359
Joined
3/28/2015
Location
Ashville, OH US
mark911 6/6/2015 1:43am
6/6/2015 1:43am
The vet tracks around the country should be used as it's name implies, for vets! I mean real vets, 40 and over, split by skill level so the sandbaggers (oh yea, vets have them in spades) can't get off roosting on some novice 63 year old. Give the little guys their own practice as well, unless that want to ride with the big bikes. We're talking practice, and my experience is that practice produces 90% of all the ugly crashes (as opposed to actual racing within your classification).

Some crashes are inevitable, but it's difficult to access your speed relative to your age/skill bracket when you can't tell who's in your potential racing demographic. Is the guy that passed you someone you might be lined up against the following week? If so, tucking in behind and trying to match pace can be a good measuring stick for areas of improvement. If it's some 18 year old kid intent on being the next RV why even take the risks?

In any event, I personally look for the little guys ahead of me and slow down to a crawl when I get around them. That is unless they're passing me, in which case I concede the race line. Maybe the vets and minis make a good on track combination. Experience and youth.

Will it happen? Not a chance in SoCal. Just too much money saved and less bitching by simply letting everyone fend for themselves. Obviously safety is not at the top of the list.

Pit Row

See All »
RealityCheck
Profile picture for user RealityCheck
Posts
202
Joined
7/1/2012
Location
Davidsonville, MD US
RealityCheck 6/6/2015 6:29am
6/6/2015 6:29am
cwtoyota wrote:
I agree even though milestone has traditionally been mostly tables on the vet track. [embed] https://youtu.be/yEt7c3jDAlA [/embed] She came out of this alight... Couple of guys...
I agree even though milestone has traditionally been mostly tables on the vet track.



She came out of this alight...
Couple of guys who were watching told me that she followed dad out onto the track. Dad entered the track between the double and so did she. Dad almost got his little girl killed. Worst feeling I've ever had on a bike!

Dad was at fault in my crash, but having a flagger or splitting up the practice could have prevented it.

Size of bike isn't as important as skill level and level of experience of the rider and his/her awareness. Still, it's nearly impossible to see the little kids on small bikes on the back side of a jump, or when they roll between jumps.

I'm going to have nightmares after watching that video. Glad everyone was OK.
bsharkey
Profile picture for user bsharkey
Posts
2162
Joined
6/16/2014
Location
Marysville, WA US
bsharkey 6/6/2015 6:46am
6/6/2015 6:46am
Crush wrote:
Will never agree with it. There are heaps of kids that can smoke me on the 85, but if we have a collision it's not a...
Will never agree with it.

There are heaps of kids that can smoke me on the 85, but if we have a collision it's not a fight, they're fucked.

A little time scheduling and problem is avoided, MX needs all the safety help it can get.
that's the big problem. my son is faster than at least half or more of the big bikes on the track on the 85. he jumps all the big gaps and can ride with the int and juniors no problem but if he crashes like you said hes dead meat. on the other hand when he rides the little bike pratice he has the same problem with the slower kids there. Washougal does a excellent job breaking up practice by class but in the end you get less ride time but you are safe

Post a reply to: Little Kids on the "Big Track" or even the "Vet Track"...