2015 RMZ450 SFFAIR --HELP

crluke14
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crluke14 5/4/2015 2:41am
5/4/2015 2:41am
Thanks for your replys. Interesting what you're saying regarding rebound. I tried a softer shock spring yesterday although I was within the measurement they give I felt the back was quite stiff. Surprised what a difference it made. Basic fundamentals I guess. Forks felt ok too so maybe the back was putting extra pressure on front end giving me issues. I'm still getting air build up in the outer but I just bleed it after every ride. I must admit this was on soft sandy type terrain , very rough so I will see how it goes on in the hardpack tracks and let you know . Thanks
slipdog
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slipdog 5/4/2015 5:29am
5/4/2015 5:29am
Just like any other fork, pressure builds up in the fork tube. On the damper side you have the standard bleed screw to let the pressure out, on the air side you only have the outer chamber schrader valve. you must bleed that out before every ride like any spring fork.

Don't worry about the oil bubbles, The outer chamber valve passage makes a 90* just below the schrader and above the O-ring that seals the inner chamber. Oil can get splashed up into that horizontal passage way while riding and will bubble out when you bleed the air.
Sargent Rock
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Sargent Rock 5/9/2015 8:23pm
5/9/2015 8:23pm
Just letting everyone know I put zero psi in outside chamber, it significantly reduced the harshness of the fork. You might have to go up one or two PSI in the inner chamber however. Ymmv. Good luck.
SLO1667
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SLO1667 5/10/2015 9:27pm
5/10/2015 9:27pm
Sargent Rock wrote:
Just letting everyone know I put zero psi in outside chamber, it significantly reduced the harshness of the fork. You might have to go up one...
Just letting everyone know I put zero psi in outside chamber, it significantly reduced the harshness of the fork. You might have to go up one or two PSI in the inner chamber however. Ymmv. Good luck.
you really should avoid running any air in the outer as it builds up it's own pretty and all it takes is a few psi to make them feel harsh. Compression or air should be used instead.

The Shop

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Grizz
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Grizz 5/16/2015 12:54pm
5/16/2015 12:54pm
Is anyone using the Works Connection no loss adaptor? Just wondering if it is helpful. I think I'm going to get one just for the peace of mind that the pressure will be what I set it at. It's definitely difficult to release the pump the same way every time.

https://worksconnection.com/details.php?id=1261&modyear=&return=--RM-Z4…

Finally going to try these forks for the first time on Monday or Tuesday. Interested to see how they stack up against the first generation air forks.
SLO1667
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SLO1667 5/16/2015 8:12pm
5/16/2015 8:12pm
Grizz wrote:
Is anyone using the Works Connection no loss adaptor? Just wondering if it is helpful. I think I'm going to get one just for the peace...
Is anyone using the Works Connection no loss adaptor? Just wondering if it is helpful. I think I'm going to get one just for the peace of mind that the pressure will be what I set it at. It's definitely difficult to release the pump the same way every time.

https://worksconnection.com/details.php?id=1261&modyear=&return=--RM-Z4…

Finally going to try these forks for the first time on Monday or Tuesday. Interested to see how they stack up against the first generation air forks.
it is helpful...They've had a few bad ones, but as long as you check it, you'll be good. It just adds some length and due to its diameter, it's easier to screw onto the shraeder valve on the bike. Worth the $20, but a good gauge is more important to be honest.
Bruce372
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Bruce372 5/16/2015 10:54pm
5/16/2015 10:54pm
Grizz wrote:
Is anyone using the Works Connection no loss adaptor? Just wondering if it is helpful. I think I'm going to get one just for the peace...
Is anyone using the Works Connection no loss adaptor? Just wondering if it is helpful. I think I'm going to get one just for the peace of mind that the pressure will be what I set it at. It's definitely difficult to release the pump the same way every time.

https://worksconnection.com/details.php?id=1261&modyear=&return=--RM-Z4…

Finally going to try these forks for the first time on Monday or Tuesday. Interested to see how they stack up against the first generation air forks.
SLO1667 wrote:
it is helpful...They've had a few bad ones, but as long as you check it, you'll be good. It just adds some length and due to...
it is helpful...They've had a few bad ones, but as long as you check it, you'll be good. It just adds some length and due to its diameter, it's easier to screw onto the shraeder valve on the bike. Worth the $20, but a good gauge is more important to be honest.
so is it just an extension or is it actually a zero loss?
Grizz
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Grizz 5/18/2015 4:22am
5/18/2015 4:22am
Grizz wrote:
Is anyone using the Works Connection no loss adaptor? Just wondering if it is helpful. I think I'm going to get one just for the peace...
Is anyone using the Works Connection no loss adaptor? Just wondering if it is helpful. I think I'm going to get one just for the peace of mind that the pressure will be what I set it at. It's definitely difficult to release the pump the same way every time.

https://worksconnection.com/details.php?id=1261&modyear=&return=--RM-Z4…

Finally going to try these forks for the first time on Monday or Tuesday. Interested to see how they stack up against the first generation air forks.
SLO1667 wrote:
it is helpful...They've had a few bad ones, but as long as you check it, you'll be good. It just adds some length and due to...
it is helpful...They've had a few bad ones, but as long as you check it, you'll be good. It just adds some length and due to its diameter, it's easier to screw onto the shraeder valve on the bike. Worth the $20, but a good gauge is more important to be honest.
Bruce372 wrote:
so is it just an extension or is it actually a zero loss?
Basically all I'm asking haha. I got the Suzuki pump so I think I'm set there.
Grizz
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Grizz 5/18/2015 4:25am
5/18/2015 4:25am
Also, why the hell does the pump not come with the bike? I mean you can't even ride the bike without it even if you just trail ride 3 times a year. Add $50 to the msrp and include it with the mapping couplers and manual..
look out below
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look out below 5/18/2015 6:25pm
5/18/2015 6:25pm
Grizz wrote:
Also, why the hell does the pump not come with the bike? I mean you can't even ride the bike without it even if you just...
Also, why the hell does the pump not come with the bike? I mean you can't even ride the bike without it even if you just trail ride 3 times a year. Add $50 to the msrp and include it with the mapping couplers and manual..
It is also the exact same pump as what comes with the Kx and Cr, ours just says Suzuki on the side.
crluke14
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crluke14 5/23/2015 2:48pm
5/23/2015 2:48pm
Ok so after a few more weeks riding this bike ii'm still struggling. Went to a track today which was a hard base but with a bit of loose on top with a lot of mid sized square edged bumps and smaller stutter bumps on entry to turns. After a lot of trial and error I have found 180 in inner 0 in outer and 180 on balance chamber seems best. I weigh 88kgs, I think that's about 195lbs. On the rear I've gone to the optional softer spring and that felt a massive improvement. The problem is the forks just don't seem to work on the small bumps. I had a mate video me and then another guy on same bike but he was running ohlins internal cartridges . The ohlins ones seem so supple. I know there's a big price tag that goes with that but has anyone played with how these forks are damped to reduce the stiction . I can't see its seal stiction causing this. I have now replaced the oil and put new seals on and feeling the forks separately there seems no stiction at all but once in the bike that all changes. As an example all my other bikes as I push it up the loading ramp into the van my forks have always moved. These do not! Spoke to a few dealers and suspension tuners in England and nobody seems to know how to get them good. A fair few expert level riders riding old conventional oil spring forks or putting the ohlins cartridges in. I love the principal of these forks but starting to wonder if they are worth persisting with. Any help appreciated. Also seems weird that I'm on the optional soft rear spring and I am on the hard setting suggested on the forks. ? Just to confirm I have set up the rear and I have 40 mm static sag and 104mm race sag. With the standard spring my static sag was 48 mm! Yet ohlins recommend an even heavier spring than the standard for my weight!
Bruce372
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Bruce372 5/23/2015 3:23pm
5/23/2015 3:23pm


Everyone on the rmz450 tac complains about square edges and breaking bumps. I think its too much midvalve. But I did once stay at a holiday inn.
Bruce372
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Bruce372 5/23/2015 3:25pm
5/23/2015 3:25pm
I don't think its stiction because after A few hours and lighter valving mine feel pretty good.
walent215
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walent215 5/23/2015 4:41pm
5/23/2015 4:41pm
crluke14 wrote:
Ok so after a few more weeks riding this bike ii'm still struggling. Went to a track today which was a hard base but with a...
Ok so after a few more weeks riding this bike ii'm still struggling. Went to a track today which was a hard base but with a bit of loose on top with a lot of mid sized square edged bumps and smaller stutter bumps on entry to turns. After a lot of trial and error I have found 180 in inner 0 in outer and 180 on balance chamber seems best. I weigh 88kgs, I think that's about 195lbs. On the rear I've gone to the optional softer spring and that felt a massive improvement. The problem is the forks just don't seem to work on the small bumps. I had a mate video me and then another guy on same bike but he was running ohlins internal cartridges . The ohlins ones seem so supple. I know there's a big price tag that goes with that but has anyone played with how these forks are damped to reduce the stiction . I can't see its seal stiction causing this. I have now replaced the oil and put new seals on and feeling the forks separately there seems no stiction at all but once in the bike that all changes. As an example all my other bikes as I push it up the loading ramp into the van my forks have always moved. These do not! Spoke to a few dealers and suspension tuners in England and nobody seems to know how to get them good. A fair few expert level riders riding old conventional oil spring forks or putting the ohlins cartridges in. I love the principal of these forks but starting to wonder if they are worth persisting with. Any help appreciated. Also seems weird that I'm on the optional soft rear spring and I am on the hard setting suggested on the forks. ? Just to confirm I have set up the rear and I have 40 mm static sag and 104mm race sag. With the standard spring my static sag was 48 mm! Yet ohlins recommend an even heavier spring than the standard for my weight!
where are your clickers set at? have you tried running lower inner chamber pressure?
crluke14
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crluke14 5/24/2015 4:11pm
5/24/2015 4:11pm
Clickers are at 14 out on comp and 13 out on rebound. We did try 20 out on rebound to see if that made them a bit more active but it didn't unfortunately. They seem to go down on entry to corner and then stay down. I have tried a lower inner and trouble is I fell into the trap of thinking lets go softer as these forks feel hard but all that happens is you are through the initial travel straight away and into the mid stroke. Which is obviously hard. Without someone watching its hard to tell which way you need to go. As I increased pressure handling has improved as forks sit higher in stroke so bike feels a bit more stable. Seems like if the forks are higher in stroke they work better on small bumps bit still not as good as conventional forks. I think I'm going to try even harder than 180 now which seems way out on what others recommended.
walent215
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walent215 5/25/2015 5:17am
5/25/2015 5:17am
Have you tried to run the compression in? Maybe the forks are riding too low in the stroke resulting in the harsh feeling? Maybe you have already tried this ...I don't know but if you haven't it's worth a shot.
Bruce372
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Bruce372 5/25/2015 9:07am
5/25/2015 9:07am Edited Date/Time 5/25/2015 9:08am
ive revalved mine and they definitely got better for me.

on the base valve, they only run a small number of thicker shims and no spacer shims between the stack and the back plate, so the shims dont have far to bend. Of course, you can see or measure the inside of the fork, so this could be a moot point. The KXF uses lot more shims so they could have more room to bend? this could cause too much high speed compression damping, who knows.

My friend rode it friday and he liked the forks, but also noticed the harshness on slap downs and square edges, and the only thing i havent changed at that point was the midvalve. In comparison, the KXF uses the same mid valve float to the RMZ, but the RMZ uses more/stiffer midvalve shims and a taller collar to give the same float as the KXF, a stiffer mid setup could cause too much high speed compression damping, who knows?

So this weekend i stripped down the midvalve, and lightened the valving slightly, and went slightly larger float gap. Some people are going to a tapered midvalve stack, but i just used 24 and 26mm shims to simplify the setup and ensure the midvalve check spring sits on the shims properly. I am yet to ride this new setup.

Of course, i could be totally wrong, but so far its working for me and these tuning tips from the Race tech book do seem to make sense with what i observed.



crluke14
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crluke14 5/25/2015 1:43pm
5/25/2015 1:43pm
Thanks so much for your response. I hope that is what the situation is then. I'll try to get them revalved and see . Also good point re the compression. I will try that. Nothing to lose.

Pit Row

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walent215
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walent215 5/26/2015 1:24am
5/26/2015 1:24am
Hope you get it figured out soon bud!
Bruce372
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Bruce372 5/31/2015 5:29pm
5/31/2015 5:29pm
I went to friends farm mx/woods track today and with the slightly lighter mid valve setting and slightly increased float gap, all the harshness is gone from these forks. They are almost too.soft, even with 180 psi.
Grizz
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Grizz 6/5/2015 3:17pm
6/5/2015 3:17pm Edited Date/Time 6/5/2015 3:21pm
I need to get a high pressure gauge to check if the no air loss adapter actually works. Makes it easier to attach thats for sure.
Bruce372
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Bruce372 6/5/2015 3:31pm
6/5/2015 3:31pm
Grizz wrote:
I need to get a high pressure gauge to check if the no air loss adapter actually works. Makes it easier to attach thats for sure.
So basically its just an extension ?
Grizz
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Grizz 6/6/2015 8:07am
6/6/2015 8:07am Edited Date/Time 6/6/2015 8:09am
Grizz wrote:
I need to get a high pressure gauge to check if the no air loss adapter actually works. Makes it easier to attach thats for sure.
Bruce372 wrote:
So basically its just an extension ?
That's what it seems like. I edited my post but I originally said it didn't work. But then I did more reading and apparently when you re-attach your pump you lose air so checking the pressure with the pump is impossible. But according to MXA (who just did a review) it works as advertised. So I guess I just have to trust that its not letting any air out on disconnect. It does make a hiss but MXA and the instructions say that is from the pump and not from the forks.

http://www.worksconnection.com/pdf/works_connection_no_air_loss_adaptor…

Edit: by the way, I only put 2 hours on my forks so far while they were completely stock. I just got them back from Pro Action and I'm going to break them in and feel them out more today and tomorrow. So far I like them way better than the first generation air forks that I had on Kawi's.
Falcon
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Falcon 6/6/2015 3:43pm
6/6/2015 3:43pm
Crluke, try more or less air in the balance chamber at bottom. This affects the first 1/3rd or so of travel, and you will notice it in small bumps. Remember, more air there makes the fork softer.
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Falcon 6/6/2015 3:44pm
6/6/2015 3:44pm
(more air in the balance chamber while leaving the inner chamber the same.)
Bruce372
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Bruce372 6/6/2015 5:43pm
6/6/2015 5:43pm
if the valving is too stiff, it wont matter what pressures you put in the chamber, just like it wouldnt matter what spring you used in a conventional fork with too stiff valving.
rocketsocks26 6/6/2015 8:16pm
6/6/2015 8:16pm
Im a ktm guy but have ohlins on my 15 300sx, ive been riding my buddys 15 rmz450 , pr2 revalved it and I was blown away on how good it was!, probably the best bike ive ever ridden lol, im in love with the rmz!
crluke14
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crluke14 6/7/2015 9:30am
6/7/2015 9:30am
Falcon wrote:
(more air in the balance chamber while leaving the inner chamber the same.)
I know what your saying Falcon and it makes sense . But I think it's easy to fall into a trap of thinking the forks are too hard but actually they are too soft and the fork seems to sit through the initial supple part of the travel and into the midstroke which is harder. That's with me running 180 in inner and 180 in balance. 0 in the outer. With this setting my race sag at the fork end is 60mm which I think is too much. I've since tried the settings mx action magazine suggest . That's 170 inner and 174 balance with 10 in the outer chamber. The bike stands taller and I only had 48mm race sag on forks which I thought was more like it. On track though they felt very hard and in forgiving. Suffered with under steer and the bike would not hold a tight line . I've found someone now that is willing to revalve for me taking off approx 30%damping comp and rebound . So I'm excited to try. In the meantime I've been loaned some conventional 2010 Showa forks that I'll try so I can at least compare after the work is done to see if they really are better than a conventional fork or not. It is frustrating trying to set them up and time consuming.
crluke14
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crluke14 6/7/2015 9:31am
6/7/2015 9:31am
Rocketsocks26 it's great to hear good feedback on these forks. So hopefully I'm not wasting time and money with them. Thanks.
scotd624b
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scotd624b 9/11/2015 5:04pm
9/11/2015 5:04pm
So I am the owner of the original posters bike now. I be struggled with set up. Some set ups feel good then same set up doesn't. I decided to get showa app and experiment and here's what I found. Any range of air pressure could not get the feel I wanted. It I upped it too much to resist bottoming then mid stroke was too harsh. I was playing with 180 to 187 inner and 185 and up balance. 4 or so in outer. No matter what I did it did not help.
So I went way out and added 40ml to calving side of fork. Still too harsh then I dropped air down to 174 inner 178 balance, and 5 outer. It was absolutely awesome!!!!


I am a 230 lb intermediate rider more like novice but don't always clear things and land where I should so bottoming resistance was important. I am now using all but an inch of travel according to my o ring on fork tube.

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