Mitch Payton's comment on the FIM

philG
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2/26/2015 10:26am
Yes. FIM is the world motorcycle racing organization, each country has a designated sanctioning body that is the official FIM associated body (ACU) that can sanction...
Yes. FIM is the world motorcycle racing organization, each country has a designated sanctioning body that is the official FIM associated body (ACU) that can sanction races in that country. AMA is that organization for the US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_FIM_affiliated_federations

The ONLY, and I mean the ONLY, reason AMA has the power and domination of motorcycle events in the US is because it is the FIM designated ACU for the US. Without the FIM backing it the AMA becomes nothing but another sanctioning body.
BobbyM wrote:
designated ACU for the US. Without the FIM backing it the AMA becomes nothing but another sanctioning body[i][b] that is located and operates in THE USA[/b][/i]...makes...
designated ACU for the US. Without the FIM backing it the AMA becomes nothing but another sanctioning body that is located and operates in THE USA...makes a big fucking difference imho.
Exactley... that sanction makes you the big cheese in your particular country, it allows you to run world championship events (which SX is classed as now ) and with that comes the responsibility to adhere to the internationally agreed rules.

BobbyM
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2/26/2015 10:28am
philG wrote:
World sports need world rules.... NASCAR NBA , and NFL are sports nobody outside the US does or cares about,they can do what they like...
World sports need world rules.... NASCAR NBA , and NFL are sports nobody outside the US does or cares about,they can do what they like , but MX is a global sport , where bikes are produced by many manufacturers all over the world , so the rules need to apply all over the world , for world , and national championships.

Else is makes it just another made up sport that nobody else does.
FOOT....meet MOUTH.

LMFAO
Juss
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2/26/2015 10:33am Edited Date/Time 2/26/2015 10:34am
Yes. FIM is the world motorcycle racing organization, each country has a designated sanctioning body that is the official FIM associated body (ACU) that can sanction...
Yes. FIM is the world motorcycle racing organization, each country has a designated sanctioning body that is the official FIM associated body (ACU) that can sanction races in that country. AMA is that organization for the US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_FIM_affiliated_federations

The ONLY, and I mean the ONLY, reason AMA has the power and domination of motorcycle events in the US is because it is the FIM designated ACU for the US. Without the FIM backing it the AMA becomes nothing but another sanctioning body.
BobbyM wrote:
designated ACU for the US. Without the FIM backing it the AMA becomes nothing but another sanctioning body[i][b] that is located and operates in THE USA[/b][/i]...makes...
designated ACU for the US. Without the FIM backing it the AMA becomes nothing but another sanctioning body that is located and operates in THE USA...makes a big fucking difference imho.
philG wrote:
Exactley... that sanction makes you the big cheese in your particular country, it allows you to run world championship events (which SX is classed as now...
Exactley... that sanction makes you the big cheese in your particular country, it allows you to run world championship events (which SX is classed as now ) and with that comes the responsibility to adhere to the internationally agreed rules.

But how can a series that's only run in the USA be a "World Championship"? Then make 2-3 MXGPs part of the SX series. Would love too see AC222 on an SX track with RV,JS,KR etc Laughing Laughing
Kartwheel84c
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2/26/2015 10:34am
Im amazed every time this topic comes up how ignorant most US riders/fans are about the relationship between FIM and AMA. This is not new, the AMA has been the FIM affiliate for the US since AMA was created in 1924

The Shop

Fraser
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2/26/2015 10:35am
Atmos wrote:
Mitch obviously doesn't understand the AMA/FIM relationship. Perhaps he should stick to building race engines.
maybe you don't understand the relationship I'm not sure I do either, but from what I understand is the FIM was only brought in when Jam...
maybe you don't understand the relationship

I'm not sure I do either, but from what I understand is the FIM was only brought in when Jam Sports and Clear Channel split and tried to do two different series. Clear Channel said I see you guys have the ama on your side so we'll get the FIM.

It has little to do with the fact that there was a race in Toronto before, that race could happen without the FIM.

Why is the FIM still involved? I do not know but my guess would be so they can call it an FIM world championship even though that doesn't really mean anything. YES I UNDERSTAND THAT THE AMA AFFILIATED WITH THE FIM, BUT THAT DOESNT REQUIRE THE FIM TO BE THE SACTIONING BODY IN SUPERCROSS. THEY WEREN'T BEFORE, THEY DON'T NEED TO BE NOW.
The AMA are a national organisation for the USA. Just like in the UK we have the ACU, and pretty much every country in the world has one. In order to have common rules and some authority in their territory these national bodies are all affiliated to the FIM.
The AMA is affiliated to the FIM. So saying go back to the AMA running SX will not get rid of the FIM. It might get some decisions made more locally but ultimately you still play by their rules as you always have done.

Can you imagine an MXDN with no common rules? Everyone would ride different bikes, different drugs allowed, different fuel, different noise etc etc. It would be impossible. The sport as a whole would suffer.
Juss
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2/26/2015 10:36am
Im amazed every time this topic comes up how ignorant most US riders/fans are about the relationship between FIM and AMA. This is not new, the...
Im amazed every time this topic comes up how ignorant most US riders/fans are about the relationship between FIM and AMA. This is not new, the AMA has been the FIM affiliate for the US since AMA was created in 1924
What we're saying is FIM is doing nothing
FreshTopEnd
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2/26/2015 11:10am
Manny, your outrage confuses "ignorant" - lack of knowledge - with "stupid" - lack of intelligence.

The Wada code has precisely and clearly specified that a violation for this substance (amphetamine) defaults to two years and cannot be reduced to less than a year for the many years it has governed SX. There has never been any ambiguity about that.

And the only reason for people to be surprised is ignorance of that. It was entirely predictable, certain, and could have been worse (and would have been if he had not been able to prove he was using it therapeutically and not for a competitive reason).

I have zero trust in the FIM motocross committee to have any integrity whatsoever, but the FIM disciplinary committees that dealt with this did not do anything out of the ordinary. He probably would have had a year only if he hadn't kept racing During the summer.
FreshTopEnd
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2/26/2015 11:11am
Btw, about to have a tooth yanked, so off to lala land and out of the loop for a day or so. Cheers
philG
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2/26/2015 12:05pm
Atmos wrote:
Mitch obviously doesn't understand the AMA/FIM relationship. Perhaps he should stick to building race engines.
maybe you don't understand the relationship I'm not sure I do either, but from what I understand is the FIM was only brought in when Jam...
maybe you don't understand the relationship

I'm not sure I do either, but from what I understand is the FIM was only brought in when Jam Sports and Clear Channel split and tried to do two different series. Clear Channel said I see you guys have the ama on your side so we'll get the FIM.

It has little to do with the fact that there was a race in Toronto before, that race could happen without the FIM.

Why is the FIM still involved? I do not know but my guess would be so they can call it an FIM world championship even though that doesn't really mean anything. YES I UNDERSTAND THAT THE AMA AFFILIATED WITH THE FIM, BUT THAT DOESNT REQUIRE THE FIM TO BE THE SACTIONING BODY IN SUPERCROSS. THEY WEREN'T BEFORE, THEY DON'T NEED TO BE NOW.
Fraser wrote:
The AMA are a national organisation for the USA. Just like in the UK we have the ACU, and pretty much every country in the world...
The AMA are a national organisation for the USA. Just like in the UK we have the ACU, and pretty much every country in the world has one. In order to have common rules and some authority in their territory these national bodies are all affiliated to the FIM.
The AMA is affiliated to the FIM. So saying go back to the AMA running SX will not get rid of the FIM. It might get some decisions made more locally but ultimately you still play by their rules as you always have done.

Can you imagine an MXDN with no common rules? Everyone would ride different bikes, different drugs allowed, different fuel, different noise etc etc. It would be impossible. The sport as a whole would suffer.
Like it used to be up till about 4 years ago..
2/26/2015 12:24pm
MX558 wrote:
Mahe we don't need FIM but let's face it the AMA is a joke . They let the factories make and enforce the rules as they...
Mahe we don't need FIM but let's face it the AMA is a joke . They let the factories make and enforce the rules as they see fit .
X 10
Rooster
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2/26/2015 12:35pm
So when the AMA was in charge, everybody bitched about them because they wouldn't enforce the rules they had.

Then the FIM steps in and actually acts the part of a sanctioning body and enforces the rules that everybody agreed to.

So now everybody wants the AMA back? What a joke.

Rules are rules and if they only apply to some and not others, then there's no point in having them or anybody to enforce them. Of course for a series that's used to having the manufacturers and sponsors be able to change or ignore them at will, it's no surprise that people get upset when they actually get applied fairly.
TeamGreen
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2/26/2015 1:02pm
Btw, about to have a tooth yanked, so off to lala land and out of the loop for a day or so. Cheers
I hope you have a pain-free day!
mb60
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2/26/2015 1:57pm
Amazing to me that anybody would think the AMA could do a better job in any series. The AMA has pretty much ran everything into the ground besides spending millions on helmet laws arounmd the country. Look at Flat Tracking as a example, They let that go to waste and mx and supercross would have not been far behind. I see them at the races but what do they really do besides standing there at the starting line with a stop watch in there hands.
ACBraap
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Fantasy
2/26/2015 3:11pm
Im amazed every time this topic comes up how ignorant most US riders/fans are about the relationship between FIM and AMA. This is not new, the...
Im amazed every time this topic comes up how ignorant most US riders/fans are about the relationship between FIM and AMA. This is not new, the AMA has been the FIM affiliate for the US since AMA was created in 1924
Yes, but it never mattered to most because the races were AMA, not FIM, so didn't have that extra baggage of FIM rules. Same in cycling, many races are USA Cycling sanctioned, which is the UCI affiliate. Some races are under both USA Cycling and UCI rules, and have slightly different rules than USA Cycling (disc brakes for instance, are legal for USA Cycling road racing, but not UCI road racing). And then there are plenty of unsactioned events, some of which specifically state they will use USA Cycling rules. Put up the prize $ and racers will attend, regardless of sanctioning.
kijen
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2/26/2015 3:22pm
Power or influence is givin. Rules are established and a person decides either to follow them or not. Except for the government, if a person or group of people decide an orginzation is not in their best intrest then cut em loose. Nobody or group needs to be led, they agree to be led And in theory can choose not to be led.

Politics creep into every thing and people assume someone has power over them.

Skippie
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2/26/2015 3:29pm Edited Date/Time 2/26/2015 3:30pm
kijen wrote:
Power or influence is givin. Rules are established and a person decides either to follow them or not. Except for the government, if a person or...
Power or influence is givin. Rules are established and a person decides either to follow them or not. Except for the government, if a person or group of people decide an orginzation is not in their best intrest then cut em loose. Nobody or group needs to be led, they agree to be led And in theory can choose not to be led.

Politics creep into every thing and people assume someone has power over them.

Yes let's not have any rules at all and continue the stereotype that MX is a circus and nothing more. Other organizations have rules, when these rules are enforced do you see people bitching this much about it. Do you see people moving to create another baseball organization because they're favorite player got caught taking roids? NO you don't. These guys all know the rules heading into a season, and if they don't that's ignorance on their part. It's pretty simple, follow the rules and you won't have trouble.

Also just a note, when trying to make an intelligent point or response, it's best to have at least some shred of spelling and grammar. My 12 year old brother could have formulated a better paragraph than that.
machine
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2/26/2015 3:50pm
MX558 wrote:
Mahe we don't need FIM but let's face it the AMA is a joke . They let the factories make and enforce the rules as they...
Mahe we don't need FIM but let's face it the AMA is a joke . They let the factories make and enforce the rules as they see fit .
Exactly!...Stewart would have been racing if it was up to the AMA, even though he blatantly cheated. The bottom line is if your a JS fan the FIM sucks, if your not, they are alright and did their jobs and kept the sport from becoming corrupt in this instance.
Skippie
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2/26/2015 3:52pm
machine wrote:
Exactly!...Stewart would have been racing if it was up to the AMA, even though he blatantly cheated. The bottom line is if your a JS fan...
Exactly!...Stewart would have been racing if it was up to the AMA, even though he blatantly cheated. The bottom line is if your a JS fan the FIM sucks, if your not, they are alright and did their jobs and kept the sport from becoming corrupt in this instance.
Bingo.
gsxrcr28
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2/26/2015 3:58pm
machine wrote:
Exactly!...Stewart would have been racing if it was up to the AMA, even though he blatantly cheated. The bottom line is if your a JS fan...
Exactly!...Stewart would have been racing if it was up to the AMA, even though he blatantly cheated. The bottom line is if your a JS fan the FIM sucks, if your not, they are alright and did their jobs and kept the sport from becoming corrupt in this instance.
Skippie wrote:
Bingo.
Blatantly cheated? We know Machine is a lost cause, but you're smarter than that Skippie. WADA"s panel of physicians agreed he should be taking the medication.
Skippie
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2/26/2015 4:06pm Edited Date/Time 2/26/2015 4:10pm
machine wrote:
Exactly!...Stewart would have been racing if it was up to the AMA, even though he blatantly cheated. The bottom line is if your a JS fan...
Exactly!...Stewart would have been racing if it was up to the AMA, even though he blatantly cheated. The bottom line is if your a JS fan the FIM sucks, if your not, they are alright and did their jobs and kept the sport from becoming corrupt in this instance.
Skippie wrote:
Bingo.
gsxrcr28 wrote:
Blatantly cheated? We know Machine is a lost cause, but you're smarter than that Skippie. WADA"s panel of physicians agreed he should be taking the medication.
I wasn't agreeing with his assessment of Stewart. Just that according to the rules previously set up, he did. I guess cheating isn't the best word, violated more like it. Either way the point is if you're a die hard Stewart fan you hate the FIM, if you're a fan of the sport and all it's riders you see why the decision had to be made.
GrapeApe
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2/26/2015 4:07pm
machine wrote:
Exactly!...Stewart would have been racing if it was up to the AMA, even though he blatantly cheated. The bottom line is if your a JS fan...
Exactly!...Stewart would have been racing if it was up to the AMA, even though he blatantly cheated. The bottom line is if your a JS fan the FIM sucks, if your not, they are alright and did their jobs and kept the sport from becoming corrupt in this instance.
Skippie wrote:
Bingo.
gsxrcr28 wrote:
Blatantly cheated? We know Machine is a lost cause, but you're smarter than that Skippie. WADA"s panel of physicians agreed he should be taking the medication.
Haha, when machine posted that I was going to respond "gsxrcr28 in 3, 2, 1 . . ."

Some characters in this place are so predictable.
machine
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2/26/2015 4:10pm
Skippie wrote:
Bingo.
gsxrcr28 wrote:
Blatantly cheated? We know Machine is a lost cause, but you're smarter than that Skippie. WADA"s panel of physicians agreed he should be taking the medication.
GrapeApe wrote:
Haha, when machine posted that I was going to respond "gsxrcr28 in 3, 2, 1 . . ."

Some characters in this place are so predictable.
Grinning
gsxrcr28
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2/26/2015 4:14pm
Skippie wrote:
Bingo.
gsxrcr28 wrote:
Blatantly cheated? We know Machine is a lost cause, but you're smarter than that Skippie. WADA"s panel of physicians agreed he should be taking the medication.
Skippie wrote:
I wasn't agreeing with his assessment of Stewart. Just that according to the rules previously set up, he did. I guess cheating isn't the best word...
I wasn't agreeing with his assessment of Stewart. Just that according to the rules previously set up, he did. I guess cheating isn't the best word, violated more like it. Either way the point is if you're a die hard Stewart fan you hate the FIM, if you're a fan of the sport and all it's riders you see why the decision had to be made.
I don't think anyone hates the FIM. I'm a fan of the sport as well as all the riders, always have been since 1976. There's never been a rider I didn't like. I think what Mitch, DC, McGrath, Deegan, president of the AMA and other industry people have spoken up about is the way the FIM handled the situation due to its length of time to make a decision, and the penalty not fitting the crime. Nobody would have a problem with the penalty if it was for someone who they think was trying to cheat, or for Steroids, EPO, etc..,
kijen
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2/26/2015 4:15pm
kijen wrote:
Power or influence is givin. Rules are established and a person decides either to follow them or not. Except for the government, if a person or...
Power or influence is givin. Rules are established and a person decides either to follow them or not. Except for the government, if a person or group of people decide an orginzation is not in their best intrest then cut em loose. Nobody or group needs to be led, they agree to be led And in theory can choose not to be led.

Politics creep into every thing and people assume someone has power over them.

Skippie wrote:
Yes let's not have any rules at all and continue the stereotype that MX is a circus and nothing more. Other organizations have rules, when these...
Yes let's not have any rules at all and continue the stereotype that MX is a circus and nothing more. Other organizations have rules, when these rules are enforced do you see people bitching this much about it. Do you see people moving to create another baseball organization because they're favorite player got caught taking roids? NO you don't. These guys all know the rules heading into a season, and if they don't that's ignorance on their part. It's pretty simple, follow the rules and you won't have trouble.

Also just a note, when trying to make an intelligent point or response, it's best to have at least some shred of spelling and grammar. My 12 year old brother could have formulated a better paragraph than that.
Wow...don't remember my post trying to belittle anyone, always happy to give some one a reason to be a prick. And congrats to your daughter, you obviously are a proud dad, among other things.
.
gsxrcr28
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2/26/2015 4:15pm
Skippie wrote:
Bingo.
gsxrcr28 wrote:
Blatantly cheated? We know Machine is a lost cause, but you're smarter than that Skippie. WADA"s panel of physicians agreed he should be taking the medication.
GrapeApe wrote:
Haha, when machine posted that I was going to respond "gsxrcr28 in 3, 2, 1 . . ."

Some characters in this place are so predictable.
Yes, they are Whistling
Crush
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2/26/2015 4:24pm
The whole thing is a moot discussion.

Feld brought FIM in direct. They're not leaving any time soon, not without the mother of all court battles. Any why would they want to drop it, it's a world title. Sounds better for them.

And could the AMA officiate a root in a brothel? Probably not.
Skippie
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2/26/2015 4:47pm
kijen wrote:
Power or influence is givin. Rules are established and a person decides either to follow them or not. Except for the government, if a person or...
Power or influence is givin. Rules are established and a person decides either to follow them or not. Except for the government, if a person or group of people decide an orginzation is not in their best intrest then cut em loose. Nobody or group needs to be led, they agree to be led And in theory can choose not to be led.

Politics creep into every thing and people assume someone has power over them.

Skippie wrote:
Yes let's not have any rules at all and continue the stereotype that MX is a circus and nothing more. Other organizations have rules, when these...
Yes let's not have any rules at all and continue the stereotype that MX is a circus and nothing more. Other organizations have rules, when these rules are enforced do you see people bitching this much about it. Do you see people moving to create another baseball organization because they're favorite player got caught taking roids? NO you don't. These guys all know the rules heading into a season, and if they don't that's ignorance on their part. It's pretty simple, follow the rules and you won't have trouble.

Also just a note, when trying to make an intelligent point or response, it's best to have at least some shred of spelling and grammar. My 12 year old brother could have formulated a better paragraph than that.
kijen wrote:
Wow...don't remember my post trying to belittle anyone, always happy to give some one a reason to be a prick. And congrats to your daughter, you...
Wow...don't remember my post trying to belittle anyone, always happy to give some one a reason to be a prick. And congrats to your daughter, you obviously are a proud dad, among other things.
.
Apparently reading isn't your strong point either.
ACBraap
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Fantasy
2/26/2015 5:23pm
MX558 wrote:
Mahe we don't need FIM but let's face it the AMA is a joke . They let the factories make and enforce the rules as they...
Mahe we don't need FIM but let's face it the AMA is a joke . They let the factories make and enforce the rules as they see fit .
machine wrote:
Exactly!...Stewart would have been racing if it was up to the AMA, even though he blatantly cheated. The bottom line is if your a JS fan...
Exactly!...Stewart would have been racing if it was up to the AMA, even though he blatantly cheated. The bottom line is if your a JS fan the FIM sucks, if your not, they are alright and did their jobs and kept the sport from becoming corrupt in this instance.
I don't think he blatantly cheated, but just for arguments sake, suppose he was*. The problem with the FIM signing on with WADA is the one size fits all approach to penalties. In endurance sports like cycling or marathons, EPO is like running a big bore. It's a massive difference, the difference between winning and losing. If JS had a fuel violation, or had run a big bore, or some other equipment violation, he probably would have lost points for one race, and maybe the team put on probation. A punishment much more commensurate with the violation, IMO. Penalties should reflect the advantage gained in a specific sport. It's hard to believe an inadvertent drug violation could receive a penalty so drastically different than an equipment or conduct violation.


*But, he presumably did sign forms at various points saying he was subject to WADA testing and rules, and it was his and his teams responsibility to understand and follow those rules.
2/26/2015 6:01pm
Under normal circumstances the FIM is the general governing body for all Motorcycle racing world wide. So to be under the FIM banner normally gives the series legitimacy.

The problem with the AMA is that for a long time the AMA series has been the coverted series ! By Riders and Fans and the FIM MXGP not so much. So there is political will involved.

Is it just coincidental that before FIM was involved with AMA they where strong and FIM MXGP was weak? Since they have been involved the AMA the AMA series has lost ground to the MXGP series ? Make one wonder.

MXGP had a problem of rider leaving and wanting to leave and go to the more prestigious AMA series - Big problem for FIM.

Now that FIM are involved with AMA its the otherway round - Go figure. RV has gone the other way round - Herling is staying in MXGP. So it is in the FIM's interest financially and other wise to have a rider like James Stewart banned from racing becuase is strenghtens their own cause. That is the exact problem with FIM overuling AMA. Whether JS banning was right or wrong does not matter. The point is their board that decides these matter cannot have an un biased rulling on AMA becuase decisions they make directly impacts their own jobs. So if FIM impact the AMA series by banning one of it draw card to the series people will think they are doing it on purpose wether they are or not is irelevant and for that reason alone they should not rule in AMA !

IMO take the FIM out of AMA will make the AMA better - The reverse has alread been proven.

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