250 2 stroke choice

YZ125H1
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12/3/2014 9:18am Edited Date/Time 12/3/2014 9:18am
More patented CamP "trueisms" . Yea, get an 05-07 CR250, so you can immediately pull the jug and head and send it off, and spend money...
More patented CamP "trueisms" .

Yea, get an 05-07 CR250, so you can immediately pull the jug and head and send it off, and spend money on a new carb, JUST so the thing will stay in sight of a bone stock YZ RM, or KX. You even said so, in less words, which is why it's funny.

Sometimes I swear Honda is still living on the accolades of the McGrath era and some people are still mesmerized/fooled. Others have ridden them all with an objective eye and realize the RC valve Honda is literally the worst Japanese 250 you can buy. I will give them credit on the build quality though.... its about even with the Yamaha.

Zesiger, in your case, 3K will pick you up a veteran owned 08ish YZ250 and that is what I reccommend for you.

Didnt you used to have a modded CR250? I agree from a stock point of view the YZ250 is a best bang for your buck. RM250 can be had for cheaper depending on area, but as someone else said the stock clutch is a joke.
CamP
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12/3/2014 9:20am
More patented CamP "trueisms" . Yea, get an 05-07 CR250, so you can immediately pull the jug and head and send it off, and spend money...
More patented CamP "trueisms" .

Yea, get an 05-07 CR250, so you can immediately pull the jug and head and send it off, and spend money on a new carb, JUST so the thing will stay in sight of a bone stock YZ RM, or KX. You even said so, in less words, which is why it's funny.

Sometimes I swear Honda is still living on the accolades of the McGrath era and some people are still mesmerized/fooled. Others have ridden them all with an objective eye and realize the RC valve Honda is literally the worst Japanese 250 you can buy. I will give them credit on the build quality though.... its about even with the Yamaha.

Zesiger, in your case, 3K will pick you up a veteran owned 08ish YZ250 and that is what I reccommend for you.

YZ125H1 wrote:
Didnt you used to have a modded CR250? I agree from a stock point of view the YZ250 is a best bang for your buck. RM250...
Didnt you used to have a modded CR250? I agree from a stock point of view the YZ250 is a best bang for your buck. RM250 can be had for cheaper depending on area, but as someone else said the stock clutch is a joke.
He had an '03 CR250. One of the slowest CR's Honda ever produced.
BobPA
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12/3/2014 9:20am
The 05-07 KX was actually my favorite by far of that time period. The CR's had a pathetic engine package. The RM's were good, but to twitchy for me. Suzuki engines were solid...a bit fragile in the tranny though. Every YZ I ever rode felt terrible, the ergos are the most uncomfortable bikes I've ever ridden.
12/3/2014 9:23am
More patented CamP "trueisms" . Yea, get an 05-07 CR250, so you can immediately pull the jug and head and send it off, and spend money...
More patented CamP "trueisms" .

Yea, get an 05-07 CR250, so you can immediately pull the jug and head and send it off, and spend money on a new carb, JUST so the thing will stay in sight of a bone stock YZ RM, or KX. You even said so, in less words, which is why it's funny.

Sometimes I swear Honda is still living on the accolades of the McGrath era and some people are still mesmerized/fooled. Others have ridden them all with an objective eye and realize the RC valve Honda is literally the worst Japanese 250 you can buy. I will give them credit on the build quality though.... its about even with the Yamaha.

Zesiger, in your case, 3K will pick you up a veteran owned 08ish YZ250 and that is what I reccommend for you.

YZ125H1 wrote:
Didnt you used to have a modded CR250? I agree from a stock point of view the YZ250 is a best bang for your buck. RM250...
Didnt you used to have a modded CR250? I agree from a stock point of view the YZ250 is a best bang for your buck. RM250 can be had for cheaper depending on area, but as someone else said the stock clutch is a joke.
yes, i've owned all of them.

and to put the clutch thing into perspective, its still better than the 4 spring clutch on the CRFs.

The Shop

YZ125H1
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12/3/2014 9:28am Edited Date/Time 12/3/2014 9:37am
BobPA wrote:
The 05-07 KX was actually my favorite by far of that time period. The CR's had a pathetic engine package. The RM's were good, but to...
The 05-07 KX was actually my favorite by far of that time period. The CR's had a pathetic engine package. The RM's were good, but to twitchy for me. Suzuki engines were solid...a bit fragile in the tranny though. Every YZ I ever rode felt terrible, the ergos are the most uncomfortable bikes I've ever ridden.
Rode an 06 KX250 probably the worst bike I have ever been on. The bike rode so high off the ground and high in the suspension stroke. The powerband was geared more mid to top with almost no bottom. I'm not sure why Kawasaki changed from their low-mid powerband. Also the brakes on the KX250 couldn't stop a CRF50. It is a nice stable big feeling bike, but did not want to turn. Not to mention the steel bars that came standard. Lastly, the rear end sits way too high. Hey each bike is different so whatever you like I guess.

Not sure why someone at Honda thought 4 springs on a clutch was enough sometimes the Japanese do some dumb stuff.
burn1986
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12/3/2014 9:39am Edited Date/Time 12/3/2014 9:39am
I'm like most of these guys and would recommend the YZ (even though they feel a little chunky in the middle to me), although the RM might be more fun to ride (since they have always felt like a bigger 125 than a 250 to me). Not sure on the CR.

Man, I would go with whatever you could get the best deal on. You might still look around for a new bike that has been left over (ebay, bikefinds, searchtempest, etc).

I really nailed it down, lol

seth505
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12/3/2014 9:41am
New bikes I'd definitely consider a KTM, but in that price range I agree on a YZ. I sold my 09 for 3100 and that thing was sick. I had an 05 KX before that and it was a great bike. The motor was damn similar to the YZ but not quite as good overall IMO.
Zesiger 112
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12/3/2014 10:10am
The Honda may not be a bad choice. Mxa has said some of their test riders like the new 450 just because the engine isn't insanely fast. Same could go for the Cr250. I'm by no means a fast rider so I don't need a rocket ship. I just want something with more punch than a 125. Plus I hate the shroud/tank design on the yz and rm. Why they thought it was a good idea to scratch up an expensive tank when I could scratch up cheap shrouds on the CR.
Tracktor
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12/3/2014 11:12am
The Honda may not be a bad choice. Mxa has said some of their test riders like the new 450 just because the engine isn't insanely...
The Honda may not be a bad choice. Mxa has said some of their test riders like the new 450 just because the engine isn't insanely fast. Same could go for the Cr250. I'm by no means a fast rider so I don't need a rocket ship. I just want something with more punch than a 125. Plus I hate the shroud/tank design on the yz and rm. Why they thought it was a good idea to scratch up an expensive tank when I could scratch up cheap shrouds on the CR.
This is what I have been thinking. 2-stroke 250's are already tough (compared to a thumper) to utilize all the power. I would rather have a "slow" great handling bike than a rocketship that you can't control. IMO, it's easier to fix a motor than chase chassis setup................
12/3/2014 11:18am
well if you want a slow bike that turns like a truck, you can't go wrong with the CR250.
12/3/2014 11:23am
More patented CamP "trueisms" . Yea, get an 05-07 CR250, so you can immediately pull the jug and head and send it off, and spend money...
More patented CamP "trueisms" .

Yea, get an 05-07 CR250, so you can immediately pull the jug and head and send it off, and spend money on a new carb, JUST so the thing will stay in sight of a bone stock YZ RM, or KX. You even said so, in less words, which is why it's funny.

Sometimes I swear Honda is still living on the accolades of the McGrath era and some people are still mesmerized/fooled. Others have ridden them all with an objective eye and realize the RC valve Honda is literally the worst Japanese 250 you can buy. I will give them credit on the build quality though.... its about even with the Yamaha.

Zesiger, in your case, 3K will pick you up a veteran owned 08ish YZ250 and that is what I reccommend for you.

You might be forgetting that Honda is more reliable, lighter, easier to work on, handles better and is built to last. You can purchase a nice 02-07 CR250 for cheap and still add up grades to the motor, which every one does anyway.

As for "JUST so the thing will stay in sight of a bone stock YZ RM, or KX." By your analogy you think horsepower wins the race.It is the rider not the machine. The 02-07 CR250 is faster than most riders can ride.
reded
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12/3/2014 11:28am
well if you want a slow bike that turns like a truck, you can't go wrong with the CR250.
While I've never ridden the last gen CR, the first gen alum frame would not out turn my truck. That frame sucked!
seth505
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12/3/2014 12:21pm
More patented CamP "trueisms" . Yea, get an 05-07 CR250, so you can immediately pull the jug and head and send it off, and spend money...
More patented CamP "trueisms" .

Yea, get an 05-07 CR250, so you can immediately pull the jug and head and send it off, and spend money on a new carb, JUST so the thing will stay in sight of a bone stock YZ RM, or KX. You even said so, in less words, which is why it's funny.

Sometimes I swear Honda is still living on the accolades of the McGrath era and some people are still mesmerized/fooled. Others have ridden them all with an objective eye and realize the RC valve Honda is literally the worst Japanese 250 you can buy. I will give them credit on the build quality though.... its about even with the Yamaha.

Zesiger, in your case, 3K will pick you up a veteran owned 08ish YZ250 and that is what I reccommend for you.

You might be forgetting that Honda is more reliable, lighter, easier to work on, handles better and is built to last. You can purchase a nice...
You might be forgetting that Honda is more reliable, lighter, easier to work on, handles better and is built to last. You can purchase a nice 02-07 CR250 for cheap and still add up grades to the motor, which every one does anyway.

As for "JUST so the thing will stay in sight of a bone stock YZ RM, or KX." By your analogy you think horsepower wins the race.It is the rider not the machine. The 02-07 CR250 is faster than most riders can ride.
YZs are built to last pretty well for a dirtbike. How is the Honda easier to work on? How much lighter is it?
JW381
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12/3/2014 12:27pm
well if you want a slow bike that turns like a truck, you can't go wrong with the CR250.
reded wrote:
While I've never ridden the last gen CR, the first gen alum frame would not out turn my truck. That frame sucked!
The last gen CR turns great, I could turn better and with more confidence day one on my CR compared to two years on my YZ.

Like OP said, if you're not crazy fast and don't need a buttload of motor then the Honda is a great choice. I'd stay away from 02-03 tho. It's not even that it's "slow" it just doesn't have much bottom in stock form and the RC valve makes the power come on smoother compared to mechanical PVs.

There really isn't a wrong choice, but I can vouch that my Honda is an absolute blast to ride.
CamP
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12/3/2014 12:31pm
Tracktor wrote:
This is what I have been thinking. 2-stroke 250's are already tough (compared to a thumper) to utilize all the power. I would rather have a...
This is what I have been thinking. 2-stroke 250's are already tough (compared to a thumper) to utilize all the power. I would rather have a "slow" great handling bike than a rocketship that you can't control. IMO, it's easier to fix a motor than chase chassis setup................
"IMO, it's easier to fix a motor than chase chassis setup................"

Truer words were never spoken.

CamP
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12/3/2014 12:38pm
The Honda may not be a bad choice. Mxa has said some of their test riders like the new 450 just because the engine isn't insanely...
The Honda may not be a bad choice. Mxa has said some of their test riders like the new 450 just because the engine isn't insanely fast. Same could go for the Cr250. I'm by no means a fast rider so I don't need a rocket ship. I just want something with more punch than a 125. Plus I hate the shroud/tank design on the yz and rm. Why they thought it was a good idea to scratch up an expensive tank when I could scratch up cheap shrouds on the CR.
Sounds like a 02-04 CR250 might be your cup of tea. They have an easier to ride power delivery. The 05-07 engine's power delivery is a totally different animal. The stock 05-07 engine hits like a unpredictable 50hp light switch in the midrange. It is not confidence inspiring at all, but it can easily and inexpensively be modded to produce some of the best 2-stroke power on the track for an A or B rider.
BobPA
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12/3/2014 12:50pm
YZ125H1 wrote:
Rode an 06 KX250 probably the worst bike I have ever been on. The bike rode so high off the ground and high in the suspension...
Rode an 06 KX250 probably the worst bike I have ever been on. The bike rode so high off the ground and high in the suspension stroke. The powerband was geared more mid to top with almost no bottom. I'm not sure why Kawasaki changed from their low-mid powerband. Also the brakes on the KX250 couldn't stop a CRF50. It is a nice stable big feeling bike, but did not want to turn. Not to mention the steel bars that came standard. Lastly, the rear end sits way too high. Hey each bike is different so whatever you like I guess.

Not sure why someone at Honda thought 4 springs on a clutch was enough sometimes the Japanese do some dumb stuff.
Sounds like a lot of set up issues to me....Set the sag and change the bars would have been a great start
YZ125H1
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12/3/2014 12:56pm Edited Date/Time 12/3/2014 1:02pm
BobPA wrote:
Sounds like a lot of set up issues to me....Set the sag and change the bars would have been a great start
Yeah it didn't help I was only riding 4 strokes that year. The bike made my feet numb after 1 lap you would have thought it was a 500. James Stewart certainly made the bike work in supercross so it must have been the setup.

What is the point of the CR when the RM handles better and has a YZ motor that revs quicker? I just think the CR motor is too focused on midrange. When you are buying a 250 dont you want broader power?
CamP
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12/3/2014 1:15pm Edited Date/Time 12/3/2014 1:17pm
YZ125H1 wrote:
Yeah it didn't help I was only riding 4 strokes that year. The bike made my feet numb after 1 lap you would have thought it...
Yeah it didn't help I was only riding 4 strokes that year. The bike made my feet numb after 1 lap you would have thought it was a 500. James Stewart certainly made the bike work in supercross so it must have been the setup.

What is the point of the CR when the RM handles better and has a YZ motor that revs quicker? I just think the CR motor is too focused on midrange. When you are buying a 250 dont you want broader power?
There are a couple of reasons I would choose a CR over and RM. The CR may not turn inside an RM, but the CR is a more neutral and stable chassis, especially on a rough track. Build quality is better on the Honda. If you work on them side by side, you'll know what I mean. Parts prices on the Honda are much cheaper. Price a '07 CR250 Cylinder or radiator and compare it to the equivalent Suzuki parts. The difference will shock you. An RM250 cylinder is $775! A CR250 cylinder is $447. An RM250 radiator is $600! A CR250 radiator is just $181. An RM crank is $660. A CR crank is $297. I could go on.

With the money you save on Honda parts, you can spend $250 on the 05-07 CR250 engine and have a total package that is arguably as good or better than any other 250 on the track with the equivalent amount of money spent on it.
1
JW381
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12/3/2014 1:17pm Edited Date/Time 12/3/2014 1:20pm
BobPA wrote:
Sounds like a lot of set up issues to me....Set the sag and change the bars would have been a great start
YZ125H1 wrote:
Yeah it didn't help I was only riding 4 strokes that year. The bike made my feet numb after 1 lap you would have thought it...
Yeah it didn't help I was only riding 4 strokes that year. The bike made my feet numb after 1 lap you would have thought it was a 500. James Stewart certainly made the bike work in supercross so it must have been the setup.

What is the point of the CR when the RM handles better and has a YZ motor that revs quicker? I just think the CR motor is too focused on midrange. When you are buying a 250 dont you want broader power?
The CR isn't all midrange. The biggest advantage is reliability and parts availability. Those are huge purchasing factors for a regular joe vitard. The Suzuki may, or may not, have some reliability issuesddepending on which bike you get and how the previous owner maintained it. But no matter what when it comes time to buy parts there's going to be a disadvantage in cost/availability.

And as others have said, motor work is relatively simple but trying to fix handling/suspension issues can be a serious cycle of headaches and frustration.

We're all biased to our own bikes I guess haha I did have a YZ for over two years though, so I at least have a little bit of experience with different colors.
JW381
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12/3/2014 1:18pm
YZ125H1 wrote:
Yeah it didn't help I was only riding 4 strokes that year. The bike made my feet numb after 1 lap you would have thought it...
Yeah it didn't help I was only riding 4 strokes that year. The bike made my feet numb after 1 lap you would have thought it was a 500. James Stewart certainly made the bike work in supercross so it must have been the setup.

What is the point of the CR when the RM handles better and has a YZ motor that revs quicker? I just think the CR motor is too focused on midrange. When you are buying a 250 dont you want broader power?
CamP wrote:
There are a couple of reasons I would choose a CR over and RM. The CR may not turn inside an RM, but the CR is...
There are a couple of reasons I would choose a CR over and RM. The CR may not turn inside an RM, but the CR is a more neutral and stable chassis, especially on a rough track. Build quality is better on the Honda. If you work on them side by side, you'll know what I mean. Parts prices on the Honda are much cheaper. Price a '07 CR250 Cylinder or radiator and compare it to the equivalent Suzuki parts. The difference will shock you. An RM250 cylinder is $775! A CR250 cylinder is $447. An RM250 radiator is $600! A CR250 radiator is just $181. An RM crank is $660. A CR crank is $297. I could go on.

With the money you save on Honda parts, you can spend $250 on the 05-07 CR250 engine and have a total package that is arguably as good or better than any other 250 on the track with the equivalent amount of money spent on it.
I got my jug for a lot cheaper than $447. There's a ton of parts on eBay. It was brand new from a dealer for $325.
FGR01
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Fantasy
12/3/2014 1:42pm
The Honda may not be a bad choice. Mxa has said some of their test riders like the new 450 just because the engine isn't insanely...
The Honda may not be a bad choice. Mxa has said some of their test riders like the new 450 just because the engine isn't insanely fast. Same could go for the Cr250. I'm by no means a fast rider so I don't need a rocket ship. I just want something with more punch than a 125. Plus I hate the shroud/tank design on the yz and rm. Why they thought it was a good idea to scratch up an expensive tank when I could scratch up cheap shrouds on the CR.
Tracktor wrote:
This is what I have been thinking. 2-stroke 250's are already tough (compared to a thumper) to utilize all the power. I would rather have a...
This is what I have been thinking. 2-stroke 250's are already tough (compared to a thumper) to utilize all the power. I would rather have a "slow" great handling bike than a rocketship that you can't control. IMO, it's easier to fix a motor than chase chassis setup................
The YZ250 is very smooth and easy to control, as far as 250 2-strokes go. Especially consider how powerful it is. Many describe it as the most 4-stroke'ish 2-stroke.

Seriously, the YZ250 is a great all around bike. The handling is not crappy by any means and the SSS suspension is almost magical. I had a 2002 and 2004 CR250 and both were modded pretty much like CamP tells everyone to do. Still not as good as the stock YZ250 engine and definitely not as good suspension.

Another prob with the CR250's is it seems what you find for sale is either 2002-2004 bikes that are way ragged out or 2005-2007 bikes that guys think are made of gold. They think just because it was discontinued that they have some kind of collector's item on their hands.
CamP
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12/3/2014 1:46pm Edited Date/Time 12/3/2014 1:58pm
JW381 wrote:
I got my jug for a lot cheaper than $447. There's a ton of parts on eBay. It was brand new from a dealer for $325.
I was quoting retail prices. If you buy from partzilla or Honda East Toledo, you'll save 30-40% off retail, regardless of the brand, but you'll still be paying a lot less for the Honda parts.
CamP
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12/3/2014 1:54pm
FGR01 wrote:
The YZ250 is very smooth and easy to control, as far as 250 2-strokes go. Especially consider how powerful it is. Many describe it as the...
The YZ250 is very smooth and easy to control, as far as 250 2-strokes go. Especially consider how powerful it is. Many describe it as the most 4-stroke'ish 2-stroke.

Seriously, the YZ250 is a great all around bike. The handling is not crappy by any means and the SSS suspension is almost magical. I had a 2002 and 2004 CR250 and both were modded pretty much like CamP tells everyone to do. Still not as good as the stock YZ250 engine and definitely not as good suspension.

Another prob with the CR250's is it seems what you find for sale is either 2002-2004 bikes that are way ragged out or 2005-2007 bikes that guys think are made of gold. They think just because it was discontinued that they have some kind of collector's item on their hands.
Most people don't realize that the 02-04 CR250 engine is not comparable to the 05-07 at all. That is an apples and oranges comparison.

The 05-07 engine makes much more power. The stock 05-07 engine will run with any other engine when it is on the bubble. The 05-07's problem is the stock power delivery was very narrow. That is easily fixed and it will romp the 02-04 CR with similar mods.

That being said, you can make the 02-04 fly with a full blown mod engine, but it costs a lot of money and most people don't need that kind of engine anyway.
JW381
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12/3/2014 2:03pm
JW381 wrote:
I got my jug for a lot cheaper than $447. There's a ton of parts on eBay. It was brand new from a dealer for $325.
CamP wrote:
I was quoting retail prices. If you buy from partzilla or Honda East Toledo, you'll save 30-40% off retail, regardless of the brand, but you'll still...
I was quoting retail prices. If you buy from partzilla or Honda East Toledo, you'll save 30-40% off retail, regardless of the brand, but you'll still be paying a lot less for the Honda parts.
I know, I was adding to your post.
FGR01
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12/3/2014 2:28pm
CamP wrote:
Most people don't realize that the 02-04 CR250 engine is not comparable to the 05-07 at all. That is an apples and oranges comparison. The 05-07...
Most people don't realize that the 02-04 CR250 engine is not comparable to the 05-07 at all. That is an apples and oranges comparison.

The 05-07 engine makes much more power. The stock 05-07 engine will run with any other engine when it is on the bubble. The 05-07's problem is the stock power delivery was very narrow. That is easily fixed and it will romp the 02-04 CR with similar mods.

That being said, you can make the 02-04 fly with a full blown mod engine, but it costs a lot of money and most people don't need that kind of engine anyway.
Ive ridden all of them. Even rode a 2005 CR and a 2007 CR back to back with my YZ250. There is not so much difference from the 2002-2004 engine and the 2005-2007 engine. Yes, I know Honda tried this and that but it's still the same basic engine and still not as good as the YZ engine, even with your mods. Although that last part might be subjective, I think most would agree with me. Yes, the CR engine can be made relatively fast and relatively usable, but the YZ is still better. I was pretty much a lifelong Honda guy but when it came time to buy another 250, the decision was easy. The YZ is just a damn good bike. There's a reason Suzuki and Kawi copied the YZ engine and Honda dropped out of the game. When I had my 2004 CR250 I even had a then current factory Honda rider ask me if I liked the bike. He said he liked the YZ better! And this was a guy who had access to every mod imaginable for the CR.
CamP
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12/3/2014 2:40pm Edited Date/Time 12/3/2014 2:40pm
I guess it is subjective. A good friend of mine has a stock '03 CR250 with about 5-10 hours on it from new. IMO, that bike feels like electric slug compared to the stock 05-07.

BTW, he only paid $2500, and it's perfect for him because he wasn't looking for a rock-em sock-em powerhouse. Different strokes.
RMRider1
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12/3/2014 2:56pm Edited Date/Time 12/3/2014 2:58pm
BobPA wrote:
Sounds like a lot of set up issues to me....Set the sag and change the bars would have been a great start
YZ125H1 wrote:
Yeah it didn't help I was only riding 4 strokes that year. The bike made my feet numb after 1 lap you would have thought it...
Yeah it didn't help I was only riding 4 strokes that year. The bike made my feet numb after 1 lap you would have thought it was a 500. James Stewart certainly made the bike work in supercross so it must have been the setup.

What is the point of the CR when the RM handles better and has a YZ motor that revs quicker? I just think the CR motor is too focused on midrange. When you are buying a 250 dont you want broader power?
My '06 CR 250 handles wayyy better than my RM 250 ever did, and that was suppose to be the RM's claim to fame! Love the way my CR handles...crazy light and nimble in the corners...where races are won....IMHO. I paid $2800 for my barely used CR and am looking forward to how it rides with some recent engine work! If the engine turns out as good as advertised I may be selling my '13 RMZ 450 as well...
JW381
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12/3/2014 3:11pm
RMRider1 wrote:
My '06 CR 250 handles wayyy better than my RM 250 ever did, and that was suppose to be the RM's claim to fame! Love the...
My '06 CR 250 handles wayyy better than my RM 250 ever did, and that was suppose to be the RM's claim to fame! Love the way my CR handles...crazy light and nimble in the corners...where races are won....IMHO. I paid $2800 for my barely used CR and am looking forward to how it rides with some recent engine work! If the engine turns out as good as advertised I may be selling my '13 RMZ 450 as well...
Gotta agree with you on how the CR handles. Granted I haven't rode a ton of bikes in my day, but my Honda handles better than anything else I've ever thrown a leg over. My good buddies '11 CRF is a close second. It was Bisceglia's old practice bike, has a few little hand made pieces left over, but it's mosty stock.
yz414
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Location
CA
12/3/2014 7:47pm
yamaha hands down, never rode a CR but i know they have sensitive handling (not bad just hard to nail down) cant go wrong with KYB SSS and the reliability yamahas are known for (except the '14 250F)

MXA just did a shootout between the YZ, husky and KTM and yamaha won, and considering its the same basic bike from 2006-15 id say thats your best bet

Oh and stay away from KX250s they are bad, just so bad

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