Financing vs. Cash?

FIREfish148
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11/17/2014 7:38pm
I was charged 17% interest on my 2007 crf 450. bought it when i was 19 for $8,300. I loved having the bike but it was super hard to make the payment while making $14/hr. I only put $700 down.

If you're making good money, have a big down payment, and budgeting well then you could get away with having fun with the bike. Otherwise I would suggest saving up for a used bike.
JB 19
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Marion, OH, USA
11/17/2014 9:01pm
For most people I would say that paying cash is the better alternative, but if you own a business or are business minded it's a different game. For example, let's say you have 40,000$ cash and you can either pay cash for that 30,000$ new car or borrow the money at 5%.

.....What are your other opitions for that money? For business people they put the cash to work in new investments that might bring a 15% yearly return. Your 30,000$ investment could be one that might bring 15% in yearly return while increasing in value over 5 years to a worth of maybe 35,000$ .......that new 30,000$ car may be worth 15,000$ in 5 years.

Borrow the money for the car. (whether the purchase of the car is a good thing or not is another discussion) 30,000$ @ 5% for 60 months. 566$ per month. Total payments = about 34,000$ for an item that is worth 15,000$ at 60 months.

Invest the money at a return of 15% per year. 30,000 X .15 = 4500$ After 5 years that 30,000$ has turned back into 22,500$ cash and you still own an investment or asset that has increased in value to maybe 35,000$ Total asset value could easily be 57,500$.

Buy with cash:ash: after 5 years you have spent 30,000 for an asset that is now worth 15,000$ A 50% loss.
Buy with credit and invest the cashsh: Spend 34,000$ in payments and then own a car that has a value of 15,000$ Buy investment for 30,000 that brings returns of 22,500$ over 5 years and increases in value to 35,000$

35,000+ 22500+15,000-34,000 = 38,500$ vs 15,000$ .........a 23,500$ difference at 5 years end by borrowing the money for the car.

This type of stuff is how investors get rich....especially when they do it many times a year over and over.



JB 19
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11/17/2014 9:10pm
I should also add that this doesn't mean take out all kinds of loans and build a house of cards that may come tumbling down if a small breeze blows the worng way.
Boarddesign
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11/17/2014 9:18pm
I buy cash, around 3 bikes a year. Although I see why people do, I also see the guy's with everything that can't buy a cheeseburger...
I buy cash, around 3 bikes a year.

Although I see why people do, I also see the guy's with everything that can't buy a cheeseburger... but their credit score is great!
CCMX wrote:
You guys have been getting impressive results, world mini, etc. good luck to you.
Thanks, he's doing his best and having a blast doing it!

The Shop

drmarkr
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11/17/2014 9:23pm
I was charged 17% interest on my 2007 crf 450. bought it when i was 19 for $8,300. I loved having the bike but it was...
I was charged 17% interest on my 2007 crf 450. bought it when i was 19 for $8,300. I loved having the bike but it was super hard to make the payment while making $14/hr. I only put $700 down.

If you're making good money, have a big down payment, and budgeting well then you could get away with having fun with the bike. Otherwise I would suggest saving up for a used bike.
You paid $8300 for an 07 CRF450?

Where? Lemme guess......a Powersports dealership? And financed it where? A Powersports dealership?

Not even sure what to say about this post.....no wonder this country is down the shitter due to to personal debt.
Boarddesign
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11/17/2014 9:28pm
I buy cash, around 3 bikes a year. Although I see why people do, I also see the guy's with everything that can't buy a cheeseburger...
I buy cash, around 3 bikes a year.

Although I see why people do, I also see the guy's with everything that can't buy a cheeseburger... but their credit score is great!
Looking to hire anyone?
Sorry, I no longer build surfboards or have a shop / employees.

I work from a dozen MX tracks here in Ca., my boy rides and I'm on my laptop banging away at work emails from my truck. I'm super thankful for the tech age we live in, internet hotspots allow you to take your office with you anywhere.
bryan
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11/17/2014 10:15pm
Brad460 wrote:
Depends...what is your personal ROI on investments? If it exceeds what you would pay in total interest then finance... For example, we could have paid cash...
Depends...what is your personal ROI on investments? If it exceeds what you would pay in total interest then finance...

For example, we could have paid cash for my wife's car, but at 1.9% interest on a loan why the F wouldn't we finance..that money is making more in our mutual funds...

Today money is cheap...
Yep, same here. I could pay cash if I had to, but have always financed because I can use that money to make more money than I'm losing in interest.
IceMan446
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11/17/2014 10:30pm
Brad460 wrote:
Depends...what is your personal ROI on investments? If it exceeds what you would pay in total interest then finance... For example, we could have paid cash...
Depends...what is your personal ROI on investments? If it exceeds what you would pay in total interest then finance...

For example, we could have paid cash for my wife's car, but at 1.9% interest on a loan why the F wouldn't we finance..that money is making more in our mutual funds...

Today money is cheap...
bryan wrote:
Yep, same here. I could pay cash if I had to, but have always financed because I can use that money to make more money than...
Yep, same here. I could pay cash if I had to, but have always financed because I can use that money to make more money than I'm losing in interest.
I agree.

Cash in hand is key to me.

Im of the belief that monthly payments can benefit you ONLY if you do something with the money you have saved and would have used to pay cash for what ever item it was.

If you are just letting it sit in a bank account then you are getting bent over twice.

Luckily for me I have a TON of options from my employer that allow me to make moves with my money and investments so I am able to do what I want. I know not everyone has that option and at that point, priorities take a precedence.

I have never owned a brand new car, nor have I ever financed a bike. But the options are there and everyone has choices that fit them best. There is no one way that is right for every person.
11/17/2014 11:19pm
I am a finance manager. Do cars and bikes. In motorcycle dealerships the benchmark of bikes being financed is 40% including cheap kids bikes etc. If...
I am a finance manager. Do cars and bikes. In motorcycle dealerships the benchmark of bikes being financed is 40% including cheap kids bikes etc. If the person doing the role is doing less than that, they are doing something wrong. Most the time the dealership is doing this to make money of course. They make very little out of the bike itself and rely on Finance. Than from there repeat business (Workshop and accessories).

There is a reason why so many people finance though and it isn't just because they don't have the money. It is not the smartest move to pay cash for a depreciating item. You might as well of flushed 2k plus down the toilet after the initial purchase. I know personally I would prefer to have cash in the bank and pay $30 a week, rather than have a big chunk of my savings gone for a rainy day. As long as you don't finance many extra loan insurances, you can still trade each year if that is how you do things.

Also same thing with those who say they will put it on their mortgage. Putting a depreciating item with an appreciating item, not so great. Hence part of the problem with the financial crisis. Many people see the cheap interest rate of their home loan, add the item on and tell themselves they will make payments large enough to pay it off over the normal term or a motor vehicle (3-5 years). Though usually they get home with their new toy, continue paying minimum payments of their mortgage resulting in paying interest on the goods over 25+years......


I know you just wanted figures as to who's doing what. But thought I would give some more detail. Only time I get to talk about work on a moto forum Tongue
bama205 wrote:
What about this; Pay cash and still have a chunk of savings for a rainy day...? I dont see anything wrong with financing, but dont end...
What about this;

Pay cash and still have a chunk of savings for a rainy day...?

I dont see anything wrong with financing, but dont end up being the guy that just says "well debt is just a part of life" It doesnt have to be that way with the exception of maybe a mortgage. Maybe a car payment..... maybe

I wont ever have a 'dirt bike payment'

And the item still depreciates whether you finance or pay cash, that argument does not really even make sense...

the answer to that would be dont buy a toy you cant afford to lose money on....
Cash in your bank will not depreciate.
The bikes value will.
If you pay cash you lose XX amount as soon as it rolls out the door. Trying to make this simple.
So if you finance yes you lose the same value on the Bike. You are paying what you lose and what you have slower. It is a softer hit to the bank.

Sure if you money to burn as someone basically suggested, I am sure it doesn't matter. But for people watching their pennies financing is the better option.

As for anything you can over do it. You eat to much Mcdonalds you will get fat. You train to much you get chronic fatigue. You of course can finance too much and always be in over your head.

A good way to keep track of where you are financially is if you had to liquefy your assets and it comfortably covers your outgoing debts, you are in not to bad of a position.
CarlinoJoeVideo
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11/18/2014 12:24am
JB 19 wrote:
For most people I would say that paying cash is the better alternative, but if you own a business or are business minded it's a different...
For most people I would say that paying cash is the better alternative, but if you own a business or are business minded it's a different game. For example, let's say you have 40,000$ cash and you can either pay cash for that 30,000$ new car or borrow the money at 5%.

.....What are your other opitions for that money? For business people they put the cash to work in new investments that might bring a 15% yearly return. Your 30,000$ investment could be one that might bring 15% in yearly return while increasing in value over 5 years to a worth of maybe 35,000$ .......that new 30,000$ car may be worth 15,000$ in 5 years.

Borrow the money for the car. (whether the purchase of the car is a good thing or not is another discussion) 30,000$ @ 5% for 60 months. 566$ per month. Total payments = about 34,000$ for an item that is worth 15,000$ at 60 months.

Invest the money at a return of 15% per year. 30,000 X .15 = 4500$ After 5 years that 30,000$ has turned back into 22,500$ cash and you still own an investment or asset that has increased in value to maybe 35,000$ Total asset value could easily be 57,500$.

Buy with cash:ash: after 5 years you have spent 30,000 for an asset that is now worth 15,000$ A 50% loss.
Buy with credit and invest the cashsh: Spend 34,000$ in payments and then own a car that has a value of 15,000$ Buy investment for 30,000 that brings returns of 22,500$ over 5 years and increases in value to 35,000$

35,000+ 22500+15,000-34,000 = 38,500$ vs 15,000$ .........a 23,500$ difference at 5 years end by borrowing the money for the car.

This type of stuff is how investors get rich....especially when they do it many times a year over and over.



But is there a sure thing to invest in with 15% return every year?
FIREfish148
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Kirkland, WA, USA
11/18/2014 2:07am
I was charged 17% interest on my 2007 crf 450. bought it when i was 19 for $8,300. I loved having the bike but it was...
I was charged 17% interest on my 2007 crf 450. bought it when i was 19 for $8,300. I loved having the bike but it was super hard to make the payment while making $14/hr. I only put $700 down.

If you're making good money, have a big down payment, and budgeting well then you could get away with having fun with the bike. Otherwise I would suggest saving up for a used bike.
drmarkr wrote:
You paid $8300 for an 07 CRF450? Where? Lemme guess......a Powersports dealership? And financed it where? A Powersports dealership? Not even sure what to say about...
You paid $8300 for an 07 CRF450?

Where? Lemme guess......a Powersports dealership? And financed it where? A Powersports dealership?

Not even sure what to say about this post.....no wonder this country is down the shitter due to to personal debt.
It was $7,800 after set up and tax actually. and the bastard talked me into getting the fking boat insurance. Alaska Credit Union gave me the loan. They were the only ones that would. and on top of that those bikes were selling like hot cakes that year so they didn't give a shit as much if I bought one.

What do you do? live in a box? get real dude. No shit people are in personal debt. Shit cost an arm and a leg and there's a shortage of jobs that pay a damn.

Anyhoo
steveada
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Evans, GA, USA
11/18/2014 4:42am
JB 19 wrote:
For most people I would say that paying cash is the better alternative, but if you own a business or are business minded it's a different...
For most people I would say that paying cash is the better alternative, but if you own a business or are business minded it's a different game. For example, let's say you have 40,000$ cash and you can either pay cash for that 30,000$ new car or borrow the money at 5%.

.....What are your other opitions for that money? For business people they put the cash to work in new investments that might bring a 15% yearly return. Your 30,000$ investment could be one that might bring 15% in yearly return while increasing in value over 5 years to a worth of maybe 35,000$ .......that new 30,000$ car may be worth 15,000$ in 5 years.

Borrow the money for the car. (whether the purchase of the car is a good thing or not is another discussion) 30,000$ @ 5% for 60 months. 566$ per month. Total payments = about 34,000$ for an item that is worth 15,000$ at 60 months.

Invest the money at a return of 15% per year. 30,000 X .15 = 4500$ After 5 years that 30,000$ has turned back into 22,500$ cash and you still own an investment or asset that has increased in value to maybe 35,000$ Total asset value could easily be 57,500$.

Buy with cash:ash: after 5 years you have spent 30,000 for an asset that is now worth 15,000$ A 50% loss.
Buy with credit and invest the cashsh: Spend 34,000$ in payments and then own a car that has a value of 15,000$ Buy investment for 30,000 that brings returns of 22,500$ over 5 years and increases in value to 35,000$

35,000+ 22500+15,000-34,000 = 38,500$ vs 15,000$ .........a 23,500$ difference at 5 years end by borrowing the money for the car.

This type of stuff is how investors get rich....especially when they do it many times a year over and over.



You are over simplifying and making the difference appear much greater than it really is. If you pay cash, then invest the money each month instead of making payments, you will significantly offset the difference. In addition, with income averaging you likely will see an increased rate of return for your investment. There is also the fact that people who get used to financing things like cars, see the monthly car payment as something that is just part of life. So what do they do at the end of 4 or 5 years when the loan is paid off? They figure that for the same car payment, they can have a new car!! and go finance a new car instead of holding on to the one they have for a few more years with 0 car payments. That pretty much eats up the rest of what you supposedly "saved" by financing pretty quick. The finance guy at the dealership can make it sound like you are an idiot to pay cash, and many people buy into their spiel because it sounds logical. Just remember that they have a motive in getting you to finance that does not include doing what is right for your finances.
willie838
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11/18/2014 5:33am Edited Date/Time 11/18/2014 5:34am
I was charged 17% interest on my 2007 crf 450. bought it when i was 19 for $8,300. I loved having the bike but it was...
I was charged 17% interest on my 2007 crf 450. bought it when i was 19 for $8,300. I loved having the bike but it was super hard to make the payment while making $14/hr. I only put $700 down.

If you're making good money, have a big down payment, and budgeting well then you could get away with having fun with the bike. Otherwise I would suggest saving up for a used bike.
YIKES.

--

what you choose to do definitely depends on the rate offered and your personal situation.

sub 2% financing is about as close to free money as you can get.
mxdude105
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11/18/2014 5:48am
I financed my first bike 10 years ago and paid it off while working through High School. Every bike I've bought since, including my Ninja, I've paid cash for. I hate the feeling of owing people money and that until I pay it off, it's not really "mine". Obviously with a mortgage or a new car payment, it's pretty unavoidable. But with so many used bikes out there in great shape for under 3k, I see no point in buying new and/or financing.
mxdude105
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11/18/2014 5:57am
JB 19 wrote:
For most people I would say that paying cash is the better alternative, but if you own a business or are business minded it's a different...
For most people I would say that paying cash is the better alternative, but if you own a business or are business minded it's a different game. For example, let's say you have 40,000$ cash and you can either pay cash for that 30,000$ new car or borrow the money at 5%.

.....What are your other opitions for that money? For business people they put the cash to work in new investments that might bring a 15% yearly return. Your 30,000$ investment could be one that might bring 15% in yearly return while increasing in value over 5 years to a worth of maybe 35,000$ .......that new 30,000$ car may be worth 15,000$ in 5 years.

Borrow the money for the car. (whether the purchase of the car is a good thing or not is another discussion) 30,000$ @ 5% for 60 months. 566$ per month. Total payments = about 34,000$ for an item that is worth 15,000$ at 60 months.

Invest the money at a return of 15% per year. 30,000 X .15 = 4500$ After 5 years that 30,000$ has turned back into 22,500$ cash and you still own an investment or asset that has increased in value to maybe 35,000$ Total asset value could easily be 57,500$.

Buy with cash:ash: after 5 years you have spent 30,000 for an asset that is now worth 15,000$ A 50% loss.
Buy with credit and invest the cashsh: Spend 34,000$ in payments and then own a car that has a value of 15,000$ Buy investment for 30,000 that brings returns of 22,500$ over 5 years and increases in value to 35,000$

35,000+ 22500+15,000-34,000 = 38,500$ vs 15,000$ .........a 23,500$ difference at 5 years end by borrowing the money for the car.

This type of stuff is how investors get rich....especially when they do it many times a year over and over.



You make a few good points here but I think you're working off an underlying assumption that the market is good. In a down market, your $30k cash investment might be worth half that much in 5 years. Now you've taken a 50% loss on investment and you've ended up paying upwards of $4000 more for your car than what you borrowed.

The best of both worlds is to pay cash (if possible) to avoid interest and buy lightly used to avoid sticker shock and mass depreciation. My $.02
JB 19
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11/18/2014 6:27am
JB 19 wrote:
For most people I would say that paying cash is the better alternative, but if you own a business or are business minded it's a different...
For most people I would say that paying cash is the better alternative, but if you own a business or are business minded it's a different game. For example, let's say you have 40,000$ cash and you can either pay cash for that 30,000$ new car or borrow the money at 5%.

.....What are your other opitions for that money? For business people they put the cash to work in new investments that might bring a 15% yearly return. Your 30,000$ investment could be one that might bring 15% in yearly return while increasing in value over 5 years to a worth of maybe 35,000$ .......that new 30,000$ car may be worth 15,000$ in 5 years.

Borrow the money for the car. (whether the purchase of the car is a good thing or not is another discussion) 30,000$ @ 5% for 60 months. 566$ per month. Total payments = about 34,000$ for an item that is worth 15,000$ at 60 months.

Invest the money at a return of 15% per year. 30,000 X .15 = 4500$ After 5 years that 30,000$ has turned back into 22,500$ cash and you still own an investment or asset that has increased in value to maybe 35,000$ Total asset value could easily be 57,500$.

Buy with cash:ash: after 5 years you have spent 30,000 for an asset that is now worth 15,000$ A 50% loss.
Buy with credit and invest the cashsh: Spend 34,000$ in payments and then own a car that has a value of 15,000$ Buy investment for 30,000 that brings returns of 22,500$ over 5 years and increases in value to 35,000$

35,000+ 22500+15,000-34,000 = 38,500$ vs 15,000$ .........a 23,500$ difference at 5 years end by borrowing the money for the car.

This type of stuff is how investors get rich....especially when they do it many times a year over and over.



steveada wrote:
You are over simplifying and making the difference appear much greater than it really is. If you pay cash, then invest the money each month instead...
You are over simplifying and making the difference appear much greater than it really is. If you pay cash, then invest the money each month instead of making payments, you will significantly offset the difference. In addition, with income averaging you likely will see an increased rate of return for your investment. There is also the fact that people who get used to financing things like cars, see the monthly car payment as something that is just part of life. So what do they do at the end of 4 or 5 years when the loan is paid off? They figure that for the same car payment, they can have a new car!! and go finance a new car instead of holding on to the one they have for a few more years with 0 car payments. That pretty much eats up the rest of what you supposedly "saved" by financing pretty quick. The finance guy at the dealership can make it sound like you are an idiot to pay cash, and many people buy into their spiel because it sounds logical. Just remember that they have a motive in getting you to finance that does not include doing what is right for your finances.
Actually the difference could be much higher. .....and if at the end of 5 years you don't have the discipline to not buy something else you probably are not in business to start with.

BTW......I know these numbers work because I do it. I own rental properties and buy and sell houses. This isn't a theory I cooked up, it's a real life example of things I have done. One of my houses that I bought in 2013 I sold in 2014 for let's say a good bit more than the 5,000$ appreciation in 5 years like I talked about.

....and obviously the best bet is to continue to drive your 100,000 mile car or truck that you own and invest that 30,000$, but you also only live once and for how long nobody knows.

I read a lot of corny stuff about wealthy and successful people. Hang on to some of it and throw away a lot of it, but here is the famous "Millionare Next Door" read that has a lot of real insight into the lives of everyday wealthy people.

Millionare Next Door
Micahdogg
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11/18/2014 6:35am
I didn't mean to get the conversation spinning off into the "Should you finance or not" debate....I was simply wondering what are your friends doing. OF the guys you know, how many are riding bikes they paid cash for or are they financing.

This could be a used $2500 bike that was financed with a personal loan at the bank. It doesn't have to be a new bike financed at the dealership. And the guys paying cash can be doing it on craigslist or at a dealer.
11/18/2014 6:40am
JB 19 wrote:
For most people I would say that paying cash is the better alternative, but if you own a business or are business minded it's a different...
For most people I would say that paying cash is the better alternative, but if you own a business or are business minded it's a different game. For example, let's say you have 40,000$ cash and you can either pay cash for that 30,000$ new car or borrow the money at 5%.

.....What are your other opitions for that money? For business people they put the cash to work in new investments that might bring a 15% yearly return. Your 30,000$ investment could be one that might bring 15% in yearly return while increasing in value over 5 years to a worth of maybe 35,000$ .......that new 30,000$ car may be worth 15,000$ in 5 years.

Borrow the money for the car. (whether the purchase of the car is a good thing or not is another discussion) 30,000$ @ 5% for 60 months. 566$ per month. Total payments = about 34,000$ for an item that is worth 15,000$ at 60 months.

Invest the money at a return of 15% per year. 30,000 X .15 = 4500$ After 5 years that 30,000$ has turned back into 22,500$ cash and you still own an investment or asset that has increased in value to maybe 35,000$ Total asset value could easily be 57,500$.

Buy with cash:ash: after 5 years you have spent 30,000 for an asset that is now worth 15,000$ A 50% loss.
Buy with credit and invest the cashsh: Spend 34,000$ in payments and then own a car that has a value of 15,000$ Buy investment for 30,000 that brings returns of 22,500$ over 5 years and increases in value to 35,000$

35,000+ 22500+15,000-34,000 = 38,500$ vs 15,000$ .........a 23,500$ difference at 5 years end by borrowing the money for the car.

This type of stuff is how investors get rich....especially when they do it many times a year over and over.



Please show me where I can invest 30k and get a 15% yearly return. Thank you.

Ardfarkl
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11/18/2014 6:44am Edited Date/Time 11/18/2014 6:45am
My '14 is financed, my vintage bikes are cash.
mxtech1
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11/18/2014 7:02am Edited Date/Time 11/18/2014 7:03am
I am a finance manager. Do cars and bikes. In motorcycle dealerships the benchmark of bikes being financed is 40% including cheap kids bikes etc. If...
I am a finance manager. Do cars and bikes. In motorcycle dealerships the benchmark of bikes being financed is 40% including cheap kids bikes etc. If the person doing the role is doing less than that, they are doing something wrong. Most the time the dealership is doing this to make money of course. They make very little out of the bike itself and rely on Finance. Than from there repeat business (Workshop and accessories).

There is a reason why so many people finance though and it isn't just because they don't have the money. It is not the smartest move to pay cash for a depreciating item. You might as well of flushed 2k plus down the toilet after the initial purchase. I know personally I would prefer to have cash in the bank and pay $30 a week, rather than have a big chunk of my savings gone for a rainy day. As long as you don't finance many extra loan insurances, you can still trade each year if that is how you do things.

Also same thing with those who say they will put it on their mortgage. Putting a depreciating item with an appreciating item, not so great. Hence part of the problem with the financial crisis. Many people see the cheap interest rate of their home loan, add the item on and tell themselves they will make payments large enough to pay it off over the normal term or a motor vehicle (3-5 years). Though usually they get home with their new toy, continue paying minimum payments of their mortgage resulting in paying interest on the goods over 25+years......


I know you just wanted figures as to who's doing what. But thought I would give some more detail. Only time I get to talk about work on a moto forum Tongue
bama205 wrote:
What about this; Pay cash and still have a chunk of savings for a rainy day...? I dont see anything wrong with financing, but dont end...
What about this;

Pay cash and still have a chunk of savings for a rainy day...?

I dont see anything wrong with financing, but dont end up being the guy that just says "well debt is just a part of life" It doesnt have to be that way with the exception of maybe a mortgage. Maybe a car payment..... maybe

I wont ever have a 'dirt bike payment'

And the item still depreciates whether you finance or pay cash, that argument does not really even make sense...

the answer to that would be dont buy a toy you cant afford to lose money on....
Cash in your bank will not depreciate. The bikes value will. If you pay cash you lose XX amount as soon as it rolls out the...
Cash in your bank will not depreciate.
The bikes value will.
If you pay cash you lose XX amount as soon as it rolls out the door. Trying to make this simple.
So if you finance yes you lose the same value on the Bike. You are paying what you lose and what you have slower. It is a softer hit to the bank.

Sure if you money to burn as someone basically suggested, I am sure it doesn't matter. But for people watching their pennies financing is the better option.

As for anything you can over do it. You eat to much Mcdonalds you will get fat. You train to much you get chronic fatigue. You of course can finance too much and always be in over your head.

A good way to keep track of where you are financially is if you had to liquefy your assets and it comfortably covers your outgoing debts, you are in not to bad of a position.
You are incorrect. Cash sitting in a bank will depreciate if it's not generating a return that is at least equal too or greater than inflation.

This concept is called the time value of money. It is probably one of the simplest concepts used in accounting and economics. you should Google it, you will learn a lot (not being a smartass here)
JB 19
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Marion, OH, USA
11/18/2014 7:08am
JB 19 wrote:
For most people I would say that paying cash is the better alternative, but if you own a business or are business minded it's a different...
For most people I would say that paying cash is the better alternative, but if you own a business or are business minded it's a different game. For example, let's say you have 40,000$ cash and you can either pay cash for that 30,000$ new car or borrow the money at 5%.

.....What are your other opitions for that money? For business people they put the cash to work in new investments that might bring a 15% yearly return. Your 30,000$ investment could be one that might bring 15% in yearly return while increasing in value over 5 years to a worth of maybe 35,000$ .......that new 30,000$ car may be worth 15,000$ in 5 years.

Borrow the money for the car. (whether the purchase of the car is a good thing or not is another discussion) 30,000$ @ 5% for 60 months. 566$ per month. Total payments = about 34,000$ for an item that is worth 15,000$ at 60 months.

Invest the money at a return of 15% per year. 30,000 X .15 = 4500$ After 5 years that 30,000$ has turned back into 22,500$ cash and you still own an investment or asset that has increased in value to maybe 35,000$ Total asset value could easily be 57,500$.

Buy with cash:ash: after 5 years you have spent 30,000 for an asset that is now worth 15,000$ A 50% loss.
Buy with credit and invest the cashsh: Spend 34,000$ in payments and then own a car that has a value of 15,000$ Buy investment for 30,000 that brings returns of 22,500$ over 5 years and increases in value to 35,000$

35,000+ 22500+15,000-34,000 = 38,500$ vs 15,000$ .........a 23,500$ difference at 5 years end by borrowing the money for the car.

This type of stuff is how investors get rich....especially when they do it many times a year over and over.



Please show me where I can invest 30k and get a 15% yearly return. Thank you.

Buy rental houses. Smile ......whether you make money or blow up like a degenerate on bath salts is up to you.
YZ125H1
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Elizabethtown, PA, USA
11/18/2014 7:13am
I have only ever bought used from a dealer, but I always pay the whole thing up front whether it was car/bike/sled. I'm sure almost everyone buying brand new is financing not many people in my area just have $8k laying around to drop. I'm not sure how people say financing a bike and then trading it in for a newer one few years down the road is even worth it?
Jakes Dad
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Brooksville, FL, USA
11/18/2014 7:27am
No payments for pleasure in our household. Save for it or wheel and deal, Jake put both his RM 125's up for sale worked the deals and sold them. For a 17 year old I was impressed on how he handled himself, I sat back and only answered questions when asked.

He knew what he wanted 06' and later YZ 250 and worked a deal, then had plenty left over to bling it out. He's never really had a "purty bike" but he likes what he's built here.

fidiot
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Denver, CO, USA
11/18/2014 7:37am Edited Date/Time 11/18/2014 7:37am
I've paid cash for every dirt bike I have ever bought from my first one at 10 yrs old to now at 40 yrs old. None of my friends have ever financed a dirt bike either.
Boarddesign
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Fallbrook, CA, USA
11/18/2014 8:03am
Jakes Dad wrote:
No payments for pleasure in our household. Save for it or wheel and deal, Jake put both his RM 125's up for sale worked the deals...
No payments for pleasure in our household. Save for it or wheel and deal, Jake put both his RM 125's up for sale worked the deals and sold them. For a 17 year old I was impressed on how he handled himself, I sat back and only answered questions when asked.

He knew what he wanted 06' and later YZ 250 and worked a deal, then had plenty left over to bling it out. He's never really had a "purty bike" but he likes what he's built here.

That's a great looking bike and story! Now... tell that kid to clean up your man cave or that beauty isn't moving! hahaha!!
APLMAN99
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Tualatin, OR, USA
Fantasy
11/18/2014 10:04am
bama205 wrote:
What about this; Pay cash and still have a chunk of savings for a rainy day...? I dont see anything wrong with financing, but dont end...
What about this;

Pay cash and still have a chunk of savings for a rainy day...?

I dont see anything wrong with financing, but dont end up being the guy that just says "well debt is just a part of life" It doesnt have to be that way with the exception of maybe a mortgage. Maybe a car payment..... maybe

I wont ever have a 'dirt bike payment'

And the item still depreciates whether you finance or pay cash, that argument does not really even make sense...

the answer to that would be dont buy a toy you cant afford to lose money on....
Cash in your bank will not depreciate. The bikes value will. If you pay cash you lose XX amount as soon as it rolls out the...
Cash in your bank will not depreciate.
The bikes value will.
If you pay cash you lose XX amount as soon as it rolls out the door. Trying to make this simple.
So if you finance yes you lose the same value on the Bike. You are paying what you lose and what you have slower. It is a softer hit to the bank.

Sure if you money to burn as someone basically suggested, I am sure it doesn't matter. But for people watching their pennies financing is the better option.

As for anything you can over do it. You eat to much Mcdonalds you will get fat. You train to much you get chronic fatigue. You of course can finance too much and always be in over your head.

A good way to keep track of where you are financially is if you had to liquefy your assets and it comfortably covers your outgoing debts, you are in not to bad of a position.
mxtech1 wrote:
You are incorrect. Cash sitting in a bank will depreciate if it's not generating a return that is at least equal too or greater than inflation...
You are incorrect. Cash sitting in a bank will depreciate if it's not generating a return that is at least equal too or greater than inflation.

This concept is called the time value of money. It is probably one of the simplest concepts used in accounting and economics. you should Google it, you will learn a lot (not being a smartass here)
It's more of a missed opportunity cost than anything.

Time value of money is a different concept, it doesn't really apply to this situation. The TVM issue concerns the value of money in general, not the return on an investment or account. The TVM shows that it's usually better to have a dollar today than a dollar five years from now. Where you choose to invest that money today determines whether or not you will have significant opportunity costs or not.
Barrett57
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2270
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8/31/2010
Location
GB
11/18/2014 10:08am
I bought my last bike on finance.

Looked around for 0% and Honda were the only people doing it near me. A left over 2013 crf250 on 0% figured it was a good deal.
Darryl916
Posts
1252
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12/19/2013
Location
Budds Creek, MD, USA
11/18/2014 11:17am
I just figured it out. I've bought 14 motorcycles in my life

7 dirt bikes for me
3 dirt bikes for my son
4 street bikes

None of the dirt bikes were financed
All the street bikes were financed but paid off/sold early

I don't like owing anyone anything if I can avoid it. Houses and primary family car are unavoidable in my salary band. The rest should be avoided if possible in my opinion. I don't have any fancy figures to quote other than it just doesn't feel right. I think we all have pre-spent cash we haven't gotten quite YET though. lol
11/18/2014 12:02pm
JB 19 wrote:
For most people I would say that paying cash is the better alternative, but if you own a business or are business minded it's a different...
For most people I would say that paying cash is the better alternative, but if you own a business or are business minded it's a different game. For example, let's say you have 40,000$ cash and you can either pay cash for that 30,000$ new car or borrow the money at 5%.

.....What are your other opitions for that money? For business people they put the cash to work in new investments that might bring a 15% yearly return. Your 30,000$ investment could be one that might bring 15% in yearly return while increasing in value over 5 years to a worth of maybe 35,000$ .......that new 30,000$ car may be worth 15,000$ in 5 years.

Borrow the money for the car. (whether the purchase of the car is a good thing or not is another discussion) 30,000$ @ 5% for 60 months. 566$ per month. Total payments = about 34,000$ for an item that is worth 15,000$ at 60 months.

Invest the money at a return of 15% per year. 30,000 X .15 = 4500$ After 5 years that 30,000$ has turned back into 22,500$ cash and you still own an investment or asset that has increased in value to maybe 35,000$ Total asset value could easily be 57,500$.

Buy with cash:ash: after 5 years you have spent 30,000 for an asset that is now worth 15,000$ A 50% loss.
Buy with credit and invest the cashsh: Spend 34,000$ in payments and then own a car that has a value of 15,000$ Buy investment for 30,000 that brings returns of 22,500$ over 5 years and increases in value to 35,000$

35,000+ 22500+15,000-34,000 = 38,500$ vs 15,000$ .........a 23,500$ difference at 5 years end by borrowing the money for the car.

This type of stuff is how investors get rich....especially when they do it many times a year over and over.



Please show me where I can invest 30k and get a 15% yearly return. Thank you.

JB 19 wrote:
Buy rental houses. Smile ......whether you make money or blow up like a degenerate on bath salts is up to you.
30k rental houses lol. I think your the one hitting the bath salts.
hvaughn88
Posts
8361
Joined
6/19/2013
Location
Conway, AR, USA
11/18/2014 12:04pm
Please show me where I can invest 30k and get a 15% yearly return. Thank you.

JB 19 wrote:
Buy rental houses. Smile ......whether you make money or blow up like a degenerate on bath salts is up to you.
30k rental houses lol. I think your the one hitting the bath salts.
manufactured homes.

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