Attention Two-Stroke Fans

bigborefan
Posts
1472
Joined
3/8/2008
Location
Urbana, IL US
9/13/2014 10:14am
newmann wrote:
I like BBQ.[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2014/09/12/64996/s1200_IMG_20140912_120050_897.jpg[/img] Sampler at Joel's in Flatonia, Tx.
I like BBQ.
Sampler at Joel's in Flatonia, Tx.

That's so wrong Newmann. I live in the Midwest, and would kill for good TX BBQ.
9/13/2014 11:27am
Sheriff245 wrote:
Or finance it for 5 years and start riding now.
And finance the maintenance as well?
What matters is selling bikes man, who cares what happens next...
Spartacus
Posts
2269
Joined
5/20/2011
Location
PW US
9/13/2014 11:49am
Great BBQ doesn't need sauce and if it's used, it's to enhance the flavor not drowned the meat!

If Honda produced a 125/300 2T their books would reflect peoples desire to own one. Husky/Gas Gas/TM/etc. dealers aren't on every corner like the "big 4" are and a lot of people I'd wag would be more comfortable buying from them than buying a bike that may be harder to get parts/service on.

Which comes first, chick or egg? Don't make em unless they sell, can't sell em 'cause you don't make em…….

Vexing.

PRM31
Posts
3493
Joined
8/7/2009
Location
Northern, VA US
Fantasy
9/13/2014 11:50am Edited Date/Time 9/13/2014 11:50am
GuyB wrote:
Here's a partial list of things that likely won't help two-strokes become more relevant to manufacturers in motocross again. • Repeatedly harassing DC. • Dredging up old...
Here's a partial list of things that likely won't help two-strokes become more relevant to manufacturers in motocross again.

• Repeatedly harassing DC.
• Dredging up old two-stroke threads.
• Busting out, "...cc vs. cc..." at every opportunity.

Here's a complete list of things that will help make them more relevant to manufacturers.

• Buy a new two-stroke.
• Buy a new two-stroke.
• Buy a new two-stroke.
I don't entirely disagree, but buying a two stroke in a sport with rules designed for and favoring the four stroke is not a great proposition. Looking at it from a bigger perspective than only the OEMs, getting more people involved is a good thing. The less expensive the bikes are, the more people will buy bikes and be involved. It's simple math in this case, a two stroke is less expensive to build and support than a four stroke. The profit margins may not necessarily be better for the OEMs, but all the after market companies such as gear, tires, pipes would benefit from greater participation in the sport. So while hitting up DC may not be the only answer, somebody has to establish a structure for the sport that is best for the sport. The OEMs are not the be all, end all in that equation. Buying two strokes is a great start, but it will take making them fit appropriately into the sport as well.

The Shop

JM485
Posts
5787
Joined
10/1/2013
Location
Davis, CA US
9/13/2014 4:10pm
seth505 wrote:
No, according to the "formula" you are doing it wrong. If you can only afford to restore an older 2 stroke (that can be restored to...
No, according to the "formula" you are doing it wrong. If you can only afford to restore an older 2 stroke (that can be restored to a great bike for decent money), then you shouldn't ride period. You should wait and save up 5 years until you can buy a brand new one, and only then can you ride a motocross bike.

/end sarcasm
Lol, that was great. You forgot that you can only ride your new bike with new, matching gear and that your jersey MUST be tucked in!
newmann
Posts
24438
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
US
9/13/2014 6:12pm
Day two of my BBQ tour had me in Lockhart Texas searching out Smitty's Market and Blacks BBQ and look what was parked out front! Two shiny new KTM 2 strokes!



9/13/2014 8:37pm
newmann wrote:
Day two of my BBQ tour had me in Lockhart Texas searching out Smitty's Market and Blacks BBQ and look what was parked out front! Two...
Day two of my BBQ tour had me in Lockhart Texas searching out Smitty's Market and Blacks BBQ and look what was parked out front! Two shiny new KTM 2 strokes!



BBQ tour sounds fun, and you have some good choices to pick from.

KTM owners aren't no dummies. Solid choices on both.

I always wanted to do a rollercoaster tour, now I am going to have to add the BBQ tour as well. If I only had a big oil royalty check coming in every month or a lottery win!
9/13/2014 9:50pm
Follow the money sheeple.

This website is controlled by the four-stroke industrial complex.
shanes
Posts
578
Joined
3/4/2014
Location
AD
9/13/2014 11:53pm
2015 TM

CASH476
Posts
603
Joined
2/27/2009
Location
Perth AU
9/14/2014 12:44am
newmann wrote:
Damn shame when people would rather buy and ride a ten year old two stroke than a shiny new 4 turd. At least one mfg gets...
Damn shame when people would rather buy and ride a ten year old two stroke than a shiny new 4 turd. At least one mfg gets it.

Go KTM!! World domination!!
But those guys would also rather buy a ten year old two stroke than a shiny new KTM two stroke!

Does that mean KTM have been the problem all along?!!
Derpin' DJ
Posts
6399
Joined
5/27/2011
Location
Newcastle AU
9/14/2014 3:51am
On the topic of cc for cc, how the fuck is this considered fair against a 250f?



9/14/2014 5:49am
who keeps starting these two stroke threads? sweet!! never, ever put sauce on smoked ribs... after 4-5 hours of smoking meat and cold beers I'm sauced enough...Blink
web mx
Posts
959
Joined
3/3/2010
Location
USA, MI US
9/14/2014 6:02am
GuyB wrote:
Here's a partial list of things that likely won't help two-strokes become more relevant to manufacturers in motocross again. • Repeatedly harassing DC. • Dredging up old...
Here's a partial list of things that likely won't help two-strokes become more relevant to manufacturers in motocross again.

• Repeatedly harassing DC.
• Dredging up old two-stroke threads.
• Busting out, "...cc vs. cc..." at every opportunity.

Here's a complete list of things that will help make them more relevant to manufacturers.

• Buy a new two-stroke.
• Buy a new two-stroke.
• Buy a new two-stroke.
PRM31 wrote:
I don't entirely disagree, but buying a two stroke in a sport with rules designed for and favoring the four stroke is not a great proposition...
I don't entirely disagree, but buying a two stroke in a sport with rules designed for and favoring the four stroke is not a great proposition. Looking at it from a bigger perspective than only the OEMs, getting more people involved is a good thing. The less expensive the bikes are, the more people will buy bikes and be involved. It's simple math in this case, a two stroke is less expensive to build and support than a four stroke. The profit margins may not necessarily be better for the OEMs, but all the after market companies such as gear, tires, pipes would benefit from greater participation in the sport. So while hitting up DC may not be the only answer, somebody has to establish a structure for the sport that is best for the sport. The OEMs are not the be all, end all in that equation. Buying two strokes is a great start, but it will take making them fit appropriately into the sport as well.
Exactly!!!!!
Crush
Posts
21077
Joined
4/26/2009
Location
Sydney AU
9/14/2014 6:09am
Derpin' DJ wrote:
On the topic of cc for cc, how the fuck is this considered fair against a 250f? [Img]https://i.imgur.com/2ybPVBj.jpg[/img]
On the topic of cc for cc, how the fuck is this considered fair against a 250f?



What do you reckon the disparity between the 125s and 250fs was?

PJWSr.
Posts
1
Joined
9/14/2014
Location
Mc Kean, PA US
9/14/2014 6:16am
GuyB wrote:
Here's a partial list of things that likely won't help two-strokes become more relevant to manufacturers in motocross again. • Repeatedly harassing DC. • Dredging up old...
Here's a partial list of things that likely won't help two-strokes become more relevant to manufacturers in motocross again.

• Repeatedly harassing DC.
• Dredging up old two-stroke threads.
• Busting out, "...cc vs. cc..." at every opportunity.

Here's a complete list of things that will help make them more relevant to manufacturers.

• Buy a new two-stroke.
• Buy a new two-stroke.
• Buy a new two-stroke.
This argument is so lame. So if I want Adam Sandler movies to be funny again, I have to keep going to the new ones he makes? People who have once owned 2T will buy them, or replace their old ones with fresher used ones, but new riders will want what the pros race. I can't believe people keep giving this argument.
smezmx
Posts
2614
Joined
5/25/2010
Location
Kent,medway.... GB
9/14/2014 7:26am Edited Date/Time 9/14/2014 7:29am
Edit
Derpin' DJ
Posts
6399
Joined
5/27/2011
Location
Newcastle AU
9/14/2014 4:34pm
Derpin' DJ wrote:
On the topic of cc for cc, how the fuck is this considered fair against a 250f? [Img]https://i.imgur.com/2ybPVBj.jpg[/img]
On the topic of cc for cc, how the fuck is this considered fair against a 250f?



Crush wrote:
What do you reckon the disparity between the 125s and 250fs was?

4-8, not 15-20
YZ125H1
Posts
814
Joined
1/31/2012
Location
Elizabethtown, PA US
9/14/2014 4:52pm
Derpin' DJ wrote:
4-8, not 15-20
You realize motocross is not always about having the most horsepower? Yes, HP is a factor but a highly modified 250 2 stroke is way more of a handful than a 250f. You may be able to turn a quick lap on a 2 stroke, but consistently doing it the entire race is another story. The 4 stroke is way easier to ride hard and put the power down without tiring the rider out as much. Put a good rider on any bike and they are going to win regardless. IMO the differences between the bikes balance them out. I'm pretty sure most mortals can agree it is way easier to man handle and throw around a less powerful bike. (i.e 125 2 stroke).

250f - less power, broader power, easier to ride
250 2s - more power, narrower power, harder to ride
Kawasaki572
Posts
384
Joined
11/24/2011
Location
Palmdale, CA US
9/14/2014 5:42pm
Derpin' DJ wrote:
On the topic of cc for cc, how the fuck is this considered fair against a 250f? [Img]https://i.imgur.com/2ybPVBj.jpg[/img]
On the topic of cc for cc, how the fuck is this considered fair against a 250f?



Crush wrote:
What do you reckon the disparity between the 125s and 250fs was?

Derpin' DJ wrote:
4-8, not 15-20
What? Where did you get that difference from? 4-8 is accurate but 15-20? Lol.
Derpin' DJ
Posts
6399
Joined
5/27/2011
Location
Newcastle AU
9/14/2014 7:01pm
Well, going off that pic I posted where Arbon mentioned 63hp, and considering a mod 250f would put out 44-48...
machine
Posts
6404
Joined
1/5/2011
Location
Collettsville, NC US
9/14/2014 7:03pm
GuyB wrote:
Here's a partial list of things that likely won't help two-strokes become more relevant to manufacturers in motocross again. • Repeatedly harassing DC. • Dredging up old...
Here's a partial list of things that likely won't help two-strokes become more relevant to manufacturers in motocross again.

• Repeatedly harassing DC.
• Dredging up old two-stroke threads.
• Busting out, "...cc vs. cc..." at every opportunity.

Here's a complete list of things that will help make them more relevant to manufacturers.

• Buy a new two-stroke.
• Buy a new two-stroke.
• Buy a new two-stroke.
Then there's all the conspiracy theories..don't leave those out. They won't be happy until we are back in 1987 again. And they seriously think that if the manufactures(other than ktm) brought back the 2 -strokes, that they would be more affordable to purchase, like they will roll back time and a bike will be ....poof!....4000.00 again. Laughing

Me personally, I like bikes, 2 stroke or 4, it's all fun to me. No dog in the fight and no agenda.
9/14/2014 7:57pm
peelout wrote:
i ride what i want to ride, which happens to be a 2-stroke. the 4-stroke has a place in the sport, but not in my garage.
Just offloaded my 10.2 hour yz 450f.

God I hated that bitch. Everytime I was on it I felt like I was in bed with an ex girlfriend who I have no intentions of being in bed with. Damn thing just pissed me off to no avail.



Attention middle-aged vet riders: Please continue to buy new 2 strokes at MSRP and sell them to me for significantly less after babying the shit out of them, and for bolting on every sick trick aftermarket part on the planet for the short 14 hours time-span you have them.
Crush
Posts
21077
Joined
4/26/2009
Location
Sydney AU
9/14/2014 8:35pm
I dunno... I still go back to last years results down here...

Styke beat everyone on a 250f... Makeham came 2nd on a two stroke...

This year it was a bit of the same and bit of the opposite, in the end the best rider won and I think he would have if he was on a two stroke too.

The power is a difference for sure, but so is the handling and the tractability characteristics of a four stroke, and at the end of the day for the sake of a few more entries who cares.... Let em race.
seth505
Posts
10170
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
SD, CA US
9/14/2014 8:49pm
Crush wrote:
I dunno... I still go back to last years results down here... Styke beat everyone on a 250f... Makeham came 2nd on a two stroke... This...
I dunno... I still go back to last years results down here...

Styke beat everyone on a 250f... Makeham came 2nd on a two stroke...

This year it was a bit of the same and bit of the opposite, in the end the best rider won and I think he would have if he was on a two stroke too.

The power is a difference for sure, but so is the handling and the tractability characteristics of a four stroke, and at the end of the day for the sake of a few more entries who cares.... Let em race.
Yes, and to get the full story, I'd love to know the budget that was spent on a top 3 250f versus a top 3 250 2-stroke.

Maybe GuyB could dig up that info, but we know he doesn't care to. Smile
Crush
Posts
21077
Joined
4/26/2009
Location
Sydney AU
9/14/2014 9:02pm
seth505 wrote:
Yes, and to get the full story, I'd love to know the budget that was spent on a top 3 250f versus a top 3 250...
Yes, and to get the full story, I'd love to know the budget that was spent on a top 3 250f versus a top 3 250 2-stroke.

Maybe GuyB could dig up that info, but we know he doesn't care to. Smile
Not sure which side of the taliban you're on, but there was a big story down here in a mag where they interviewed all the team bosses and a bunch of the lites class riders...

Predictably most opinions fell on the side of whether or not your brand had a two stroke, but for me the standout was the heap of riders who said they flat out would quit if they weren't on the two stroke because they couldn't afford it.

On this point we're talking about survival of the class, or even the show. I fully agree with the AMA philosophy of prize money and letting everyone in, as opposed to the GPs who view it as F1. It's a different consideration down here but it highlights how expensive the sport has become under the four stroke era.
hvaughn88
Posts
8361
Joined
6/19/2013
Location
Conway, AR US
9/14/2014 9:07pm
If I ever get my feelings hurt on a message board to the point that I have to make a new account just to bitch and moan about it, will one of y'all track me down, beat the hell out of me with a rolled up issue of "good housekeeping" and then tell me to get a life? I would greatly appreciate it
burn1986
Posts
12246
Joined
4/16/2010
Location
bossier city, LA US
9/14/2014 9:09pm
Waaaaa!
seth505
Posts
10170
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
SD, CA US
9/14/2014 9:16pm
seth505 wrote:
Yes, and to get the full story, I'd love to know the budget that was spent on a top 3 250f versus a top 3 250...
Yes, and to get the full story, I'd love to know the budget that was spent on a top 3 250f versus a top 3 250 2-stroke.

Maybe GuyB could dig up that info, but we know he doesn't care to. Smile
Crush wrote:
Not sure which side of the taliban you're on, but there was a big story down here in a mag where they interviewed all the team...
Not sure which side of the taliban you're on, but there was a big story down here in a mag where they interviewed all the team bosses and a bunch of the lites class riders...

Predictably most opinions fell on the side of whether or not your brand had a two stroke, but for me the standout was the heap of riders who said they flat out would quit if they weren't on the two stroke because they couldn't afford it.

On this point we're talking about survival of the class, or even the show. I fully agree with the AMA philosophy of prize money and letting everyone in, as opposed to the GPs who view it as F1. It's a different consideration down here but it highlights how expensive the sport has become under the four stroke era.
Cool, I think I caught a link you posted to that at some point.

I'm very much pro 2-stroke as the benefits clearly out weight the negatives (IMO). I try not to bitch about the 4 stroke state of mind our sport is in but I like to call out people on bullshit they spew. Good on Australia series for having the balls to let everyone play!
Crush
Posts
21077
Joined
4/26/2009
Location
Sydney AU
9/14/2014 9:53pm
Yeah and that's kind of my thoughts too.

The argument that Honda or Kawi will just pack up and go home to me because they don't have a two stroke just doesn't hold any weight.

They won't.

They didn't when four strokes came in.

They're still in the market of selling dirt bikes.

They'll either see a market opportunity and reopen their production lines.

Or they'll keep going at their current operating model and costs and see what happens.

I guarantee the costs of Honda to reopen those lines dwindles compared to their profit margins overall in the long run.

Like I said, all the manufacturers, they're in the market of selling dirt bikes, and part of that is market demand. Slowly but surely they're pricing that demand down.

Post a reply to: Attention Two-Stroke Fans

The Latest