Lappers 15 minutes to stay on the lead lap

The Rock
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The Rock 8/25/2014 4:00pm
8/25/2014 4:00pm
philG wrote:
Its a combinantion of shorter tracks and slower riders, or rather fewer fast riders. Looking at the old results, it used to be a 35 rider...
Its a combinantion of shorter tracks and slower riders, or rather fewer fast riders.
Looking at the old results, it used to be a 35 rider field, and by comparision , comparing GP's to AMA, as a rule of thumb, the gap to any given place in qualifying is half the amount .... only 6 or 7 seconds covers the whole field , whereas that will nail to a top 10 in AMA.. thats the root cause, the strenght in depth isnt there , and hasny been for a long while in the 450 class, and with so many riders out too , its looking worse all the time.
Interesting the field is closer in the GPs than in the Nationals.
Steve 396
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Steve 396 8/25/2014 4:16pm
8/25/2014 4:16pm
Points for everyone and see if that helps. The lappers don't bother me. We all deal with them from the local track and I see no reason why the PRO's cant deal with them in their race. Seems like folks are concerned about the lapper possibly almost causing KR the championship. Why? He is a top pro and is more than capable with dealing with slower riders. It is what it is. If they are not complaining then why should we? Just enjoy the racing!
scott_nz 8/25/2014 5:32pm
8/25/2014 5:32pm
Lappers are a part of Motorsport and getting around them part if the challenge, I think the smaller gates at gp are horrible, the sound of 40 bikes into turn 1 is awesome,

Although a standard tyre supplier like moto gp might even out the field a little,
500guy
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500guy 8/25/2014 7:16pm
8/25/2014 7:16pm
moto 2 last week, 21st place got lapped twice , I agree it's part of the deal but it's getting worse all the time, not better.

IMO if you are getting lapped twice you are not in the same race. after 15-20 minutes someone needs to get the hook.

The Shop

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mx965
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mx965 8/25/2014 7:55pm
8/25/2014 7:55pm
Fuck that. These are professionals. They worked their fucking asses off to make that race and i dont give a shit if they get 40th place, they still made it in. They have every single right to be out there as much as roczen does. Fuck whoever thinks that people who fucking qualified for a professional event with the best in the business should not get to compete. Fuck off you strategic keyboard moto gods.
level
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level 8/25/2014 8:08pm
8/25/2014 8:08pm
StephanieMitchell789 wrote:
Does this forum software have the functionality to allow members to vote? We should vote and send the results to The Powers That Be, whoever they...
Does this forum software have the functionality to allow members to vote? We should vote and send the results to The Powers That Be, whoever they are.

GuyB wrote:
We need to raise the collective IQ before that sounds like a good idea. Wink
Again, Guyb belittling the members. Don't bite the hand that feeds ya. ha
GuyB
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GuyB 8/25/2014 8:16pm
8/25/2014 8:16pm
level wrote:
Again, Guyb belittling the members. Don't bite the hand that feeds ya. ha
Well, so far I've deleted one post comparing Ken Roczen to a Nazi (complete with cartoon illustration), and one yesterday blatantly accusing Aldon Baker of running a PED program.

I call 'em as I see 'em. Some people post excellent stuff, but they're in the minority.
tobz
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tobz 8/25/2014 9:46pm
8/25/2014 9:46pm Edited Date/Time 8/25/2014 9:47pm
mark_swart wrote:
Out of curiosity, does anyone NOT think that paying points back to 40th would a good idea?
Ive always said that the points system is too generous.

Its professional sport, it shouldn't be a "everybody wins a prize". F1 and motogp do not.


Lappers shouldn't have an affect on an outcome of the leaders race, its absolute bull that they should just be dismissed as an obstacle of the track.
Onepostwonder 8/25/2014 10:13pm
8/25/2014 10:13pm
Im good with 20 guys who can stay on the same lap instead of the filler material they call pro mx now. Unfortunately we only have 10 in the USA including the GP riders. Yes we have a problem. Your sympathetic to the cause if you don't agree.
GuyB
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GuyB 8/25/2014 10:25pm
8/25/2014 10:25pm
500guy wrote:
moto 2 last week, 21st place got lapped twice , I agree it's part of the deal but it's getting worse all the time, not better...
moto 2 last week, 21st place got lapped twice , I agree it's part of the deal but it's getting worse all the time, not better.

IMO if you are getting lapped twice you are not in the same race. after 15-20 minutes someone needs to get the hook.
Would that have included your rider back in the day?
jake_ktm100 8/26/2014 12:47am
8/26/2014 12:47am
flagging lappers off isnt fair to anyone. how would you feel driving half way across a country and paying entry fees and all the costs involved in being a privateer to get half a moto in then being told you cant finish.
tobz
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tobz 8/26/2014 2:21am
8/26/2014 2:21am
jake_ktm100 wrote:
flagging lappers off isnt fair to anyone. how would you feel driving half way across a country and paying entry fees and all the costs involved...
flagging lappers off isnt fair to anyone. how would you feel driving half way across a country and paying entry fees and all the costs involved in being a privateer to get half a moto in then being told you cant finish.
So if I drive half way across the country they should let me race? Might aswell give them 10 points and a trophy for making the effort.
Excaliburbmx
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Excaliburbmx 8/26/2014 3:40am
8/26/2014 3:40am
So what do you guys want time trials to decide a winner.
mattktmhall 8/26/2014 3:52am
8/26/2014 3:52am
Gps have a more depth to them that's why there closer the nationals have 10-15 riders that are great and the rest up to 40th shouldn't even be riding in the same race getting into lappers after 5 mins of the moto shouldn't ever be happening think the gps have some rule like someone mentioned earlier in the thread probably the reason why gps never have a full gate
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PressPassP 8/26/2014 5:12am
8/26/2014 5:12am
philG wrote:
Its a combinantion of shorter tracks and slower riders, or rather fewer fast riders. Looking at the old results, it used to be a 35 rider...
Its a combinantion of shorter tracks and slower riders, or rather fewer fast riders.
Looking at the old results, it used to be a 35 rider field, and by comparision , comparing GP's to AMA, as a rule of thumb, the gap to any given place in qualifying is half the amount .... only 6 or 7 seconds covers the whole field , whereas that will nail to a top 10 in AMA.. thats the root cause, the strenght in depth isnt there , and hasny been for a long while in the 450 class, and with so many riders out too , its looking worse all the time.
The Rock wrote:
Interesting the field is closer in the GPs than in the Nationals.
The 250 class should be a feeder class for the Premier 450 class as Phil says.

How many privateers in the 450's? The US has a huge amateur programme for the kids,many of whom don't move up until quite late,(e.g. Herlings is same age as Zach Bell,Jessy Nelson etc and) then many get fully supported rides in the 250's where they line up against some guys who've been there for years

The 450 class is crying out for riders outside the top 10 where you see the times drop off dramatically.I do think the fast paced tracks contribute to the lappers problem though too but the % rule would certainly help
MXisLIFE
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MXisLIFE 8/26/2014 5:24am
8/26/2014 5:24am
I have a better idea!! Lets make vitalmx the AMA board of pro racing so we can start removing the balls from the sport and make it even more incredibly untouchable for your local heros. We can even cancel and reschedule races that rain too hard because mud can actually change the outcome of a race to and we dont want to alter the outcome of any race.
jamma10
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jamma10 8/26/2014 5:41am
8/26/2014 5:41am
MXisLIFE wrote:
I have a better idea!! Lets make vitalmx the AMA board of pro racing so we can start removing the balls from the sport and make...
I have a better idea!! Lets make vitalmx the AMA board of pro racing so we can start removing the balls from the sport and make it even more incredibly untouchable for your local heros. We can even cancel and reschedule races that rain too hard because mud can actually change the outcome of a race to and we dont want to alter the outcome of any race.
Smile
500guy
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500guy 8/26/2014 9:15am
8/26/2014 9:15am
GuyB wrote:
Would that have included your rider back in the day?
When He was riding and getting good support He was normally on the lead lap yes a ways back maybe got lapped at the end but not 2-3 times a race.

And when He wasn't He got the hell out of the way or pulled off completely.

Pit Row

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Matthes
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Matthes 8/26/2014 9:17am
8/26/2014 9:17am
500guy wrote:
moto 2 last week, 21st place got lapped twice , I agree it's part of the deal but it's getting worse all the time, not better...
moto 2 last week, 21st place got lapped twice , I agree it's part of the deal but it's getting worse all the time, not better.

IMO if you are getting lapped twice you are not in the same race. after 15-20 minutes someone needs to get the hook.
I'm not aware of that but I agree, if you get lapped twice...pull it in bro.
The Rock
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The Rock 8/26/2014 10:52am
8/26/2014 10:52am
philG wrote:
Its a combinantion of shorter tracks and slower riders, or rather fewer fast riders. Looking at the old results, it used to be a 35 rider...
Its a combinantion of shorter tracks and slower riders, or rather fewer fast riders.
Looking at the old results, it used to be a 35 rider field, and by comparision , comparing GP's to AMA, as a rule of thumb, the gap to any given place in qualifying is half the amount .... only 6 or 7 seconds covers the whole field , whereas that will nail to a top 10 in AMA.. thats the root cause, the strenght in depth isnt there , and hasny been for a long while in the 450 class, and with so many riders out too , its looking worse all the time.
The Rock wrote:
Interesting the field is closer in the GPs than in the Nationals.
PressPassP wrote:
The 250 class should be a feeder class for the Premier 450 class as Phil says. How many privateers in the 450's? The US has a...
The 250 class should be a feeder class for the Premier 450 class as Phil says.

How many privateers in the 450's? The US has a huge amateur programme for the kids,many of whom don't move up until quite late,(e.g. Herlings is same age as Zach Bell,Jessy Nelson etc and) then many get fully supported rides in the 250's where they line up against some guys who've been there for years

The 450 class is crying out for riders outside the top 10 where you see the times drop off dramatically.I do think the fast paced tracks contribute to the lappers problem though too but the % rule would certainly help
The fly in the ointment is the cost of 250 racing IMO. The plus side of privateer efforts on a 450 is little motor mods and Merge Racing's Jim Lewis prepared Kyle Regal Honda circa 2010 was amazingly stock. The downside is few have the conditioning and talent to ride a 450.

Put in the rolling eyes, broken record and beating the dead horse pics but we still need a professional support class with riders on 250 strokes. These 250 two stroke support classes would allow local talent to shine the way they used to back in the day. Now it is the same group of people racing the twelve Nationals with very little local talent showing up. Think maybe Tommy Weecks at Washougal is the last local to get noticed and that was three or four years ago.

As it stands now we no longer have any support races at SX or MX with the exception of the KTM Jr at select venues.
philG
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philG 8/26/2014 12:31pm
8/26/2014 12:31pm
Lets not forget , we have the same problem , here in the UK , what used to be a a proper challenge to qualify for is now a series that you get 'picked' for if you ride on a team , and them hope for the best if you are a privateer. As a result , the series is almost a closed shop , but the distances involved make it much less of a problem , i could go to every round of our nationals and still be home before 11pm , which makes an awful lot of difference to the US guys who need to do stupid miles to even make races from one week to the next.

So would it be fair to say that you have 15 'team' guys , 10 , regular privateers and the rest are regular local Pro's doing the rounds that they can reach without going broke trying.

Get the names up out of the 250 class, bolster the 450 class , and let the 250 be a proper feeder.

As much as it pains me ( and it really does) to say it , the 450 GP class is going to stacked next year, because of the 23 year rule , and if they let 40 on the line , there are still enough fast guys not doing a GP campaign , who could step up and still be on the pace. The US needs to make that happen , or just drop back to a 35 or 30 rider grid, just to strengthen it a bit
sbyers
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sbyers 8/26/2014 12:55pm
8/26/2014 12:55pm
I think if they went back to qualifiers in would be different.
because i know riders who practice sprinting just to get in
if they went back to qualifiers then they might train for motos
there for they might be stronger in the races


philG
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philG 8/26/2014 1:20pm
8/26/2014 1:20pm
valid point... getting in is everything ... points not so much.

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