Norèn - last to 8th, passing Dungey

eurofighter69 8/17/2014 1:28pm
8/17/2014 1:28pm
Tumic wrote:
He is racing the mxdn for Sweden with Filip Bengtsson and Eddie hjortmarker
That's great,he deserves it.Good luck!!
Olson
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Olson 8/17/2014 1:29pm
8/17/2014 1:29pm
philG wrote:
You would have to say that looking at Noren , doing the outdoors is the way to go , if you arent fast enough for GP's...
You would have to say that looking at Noren , doing the outdoors is the way to go , if you arent fast enough for GP's, Bengtsson is doing ok , has the speed but not the stamina , but that will come with time.
Doing ok is a huge understatement, the results he's got in the GPs this year is by far the best done by a Swede in over a decade.
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Sunhouse 8/17/2014 1:30pm
8/17/2014 1:30pm
Olson wrote:
Agree, the tracks is not that good but they are slowly getting better and faster. Problem I've seen in Norway is the tracks are too small...
Agree, the tracks is not that good but they are slowly getting better and faster. Problem I've seen in Norway is the tracks are too small, and too tight, usually tucked away in a small area to avoid complains. Can't argue with clubs about that really, they do what they can and makes the best out of it. Eidskog is building a new track, completed right now, think it will be really good, the old track was good but a bit tight and no full on straights. Even said himself after 2012 he was burnt out and did'nt feel like putting in the training required to stay in the GPs. I can see that, if he truly where burnt out. You cant do anything about it except taking a step back. But if he wants to get back, he needs to go through what he did wrong letting him get burnt out, change his schedule, food, sleep, anything. Last year he just raced, hardly trained at all and still won the Swedish Championship by a large margin.

Magne Klingsheim has been a bit of a disapointment to me, he's such an aggressive rider. I like his style and thought he was going to break through last year, but it seems he struggles to take his riding to the next level. Every time he tries to push he ends up on the ground. Must be frustrating.

Teaming up is a good thing, most 85cc riders up to 125cc have already done that through Gundersen and other managers, they race and train a lot in Holland and Belgium during the winter. Anton Lundgren went through that programe and it's been working.

Don't remember, Thuresson have crashed out more than once in Uddevalla. Do remember Tom Söderström and Alex Eriksson putting in good results several years ago.
Yeah, we just got a new track close to where my parents live and it is probably the best track in the country now. But it still isn´t big or fast enough to be anything close to what the riders will have to ride at abroad.

Riders like Klingsheim are aggressive because the tracks he grew up on allowed for it. GP tracks aren´t the best place to ride like that. US tracks however should be better IMO as they allow for aggressive riding. Maybe a move like Norén´s would be just what he needs to take his riding to the next level? I´d say it is worth a try, which is what I feel our riders don´t have the guts to do. Obviously I´m just bench racing here, but I wish they had the balls to give it a go for a season or two.

Norén must be a huge inspiration to the Swedish riders coming through the ranks these days. Have you heard any talk of anyone considering doing what he does?
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philG 8/17/2014 1:46pm
8/17/2014 1:46pm
philG wrote:
You would have to say that looking at Noren , doing the outdoors is the way to go , if you arent fast enough for GP's...
You would have to say that looking at Noren , doing the outdoors is the way to go , if you arent fast enough for GP's, Bengtsson is doing ok , has the speed but not the stamina , but that will come with time.
Olson wrote:
Doing ok is a huge understatement, the results he's got in the GPs this year is by far the best done by a Swede in over...
Doing ok is a huge understatement, the results he's got in the GPs this year is by far the best done by a Swede in over a decade.
But his results arent as good as his raw speed, i have seen him ride twice this year , and he looked very good both times, i guess i meant that he looks at home in the class, but needs to believe he can run with these guys for the whole race.

Nathan Watson is exactley the same , and Bengttson kept him off the top of the timesheet in Finland.

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Olson
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Olson 8/17/2014 1:50pm
8/17/2014 1:50pm Edited Date/Time 8/17/2014 1:51pm
Sunhouse wrote:
Yeah, we just got a new track close to where my parents live and it is probably the best track in the country now. But it...
Yeah, we just got a new track close to where my parents live and it is probably the best track in the country now. But it still isn´t big or fast enough to be anything close to what the riders will have to ride at abroad.

Riders like Klingsheim are aggressive because the tracks he grew up on allowed for it. GP tracks aren´t the best place to ride like that. US tracks however should be better IMO as they allow for aggressive riding. Maybe a move like Norén´s would be just what he needs to take his riding to the next level? I´d say it is worth a try, which is what I feel our riders don´t have the guts to do. Obviously I´m just bench racing here, but I wish they had the balls to give it a go for a season or two.

Norén must be a huge inspiration to the Swedish riders coming through the ranks these days. Have you heard any talk of anyone considering doing what he does?
I don't think Klingsheim will leave the GPs for as long as he has a good ride. No reason to leave the good bike he has to go full privateer in the states.

A lot of kids are looking up to Noren and wants to do the same thing. The AMA has always been the dream to do for Swedish kids growing up but the lack of a role model or a guy proving it can be done have made racers to opt for the GPs instead. Now you have got Noren making a name for himself over there, Robert Lind racing all of the rounds in SX and racing MX. We also have Nicklas Gustavsson racing a handful of races, Jonas Carlsson, Marcus Övgård and a couple of others doing the A-class.

A very luxury problem is that Bengtsson is doing very well at the same time in the GPs and he's doing the Swedish Championship too so the younger riders gets to see him in person at the races and see what a good guy he is. For Noren racing in the states makes it harder for younger kids to follow what he's acctually doing over there, the races are harder to catch and the exposure is minimal.

It seems Alvin Östlund, Anton Gole, Anton Lundgren and Eddie Hjortmarker are planing to stay in the GPs. Filip Thuresson have plans doing SX this winter but not sure if Honda Germany will let him.

Tom Johnsson, Ken Bengtsson and Kalle Olsson are riders that might be able to do an international thing, but racing in the states seems not likely, Ken is suited for the GP style tracks. Kalle might be the right guy to do it, but he better do it soon. Noren left for the states right after his first MX2 title in Sweden. Viktor Björklund have talked about racing in the states, he was there riding during this years off season. He's got the potential.

The 85cc class is too far away. Most of the guys fall out before even knowing their own potential, either because of injuries, other interests or just lack of support. But there is very promising riders. The youth races pop up every where, there's an 85cc race going on every weekend during the season.
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Olson 8/17/2014 1:58pm
8/17/2014 1:58pm
philG wrote:
You would have to say that looking at Noren , doing the outdoors is the way to go , if you arent fast enough for GP's...
You would have to say that looking at Noren , doing the outdoors is the way to go , if you arent fast enough for GP's, Bengtsson is doing ok , has the speed but not the stamina , but that will come with time.
Olson wrote:
Doing ok is a huge understatement, the results he's got in the GPs this year is by far the best done by a Swede in over...
Doing ok is a huge understatement, the results he's got in the GPs this year is by far the best done by a Swede in over a decade.
philG wrote:
But his results arent as good as his raw speed, i have seen him ride twice this year , and he looked very good both times...
But his results arent as good as his raw speed, i have seen him ride twice this year , and he looked very good both times, i guess i meant that he looks at home in the class, but needs to believe he can run with these guys for the whole race.

Nathan Watson is exactley the same , and Bengttson kept him off the top of the timesheet in Finland.

I see. He's a true sand rider and can keep the pace up through the roughest sections which is very unusual for a Scandinavian rider. He broke his back in 2012 and been injury free since. He knows his weeknesses and is very down to earth. He wants to battle with the best riders in the GPs and is willing to put in the work to find out if he can.
smoothies862 8/17/2014 2:35pm
8/17/2014 2:35pm
i was there and noren has major upside. if dungey could keep goggles or use roll offs he wouldve made it higher in both motos. he came by us with his eyes closed and head sideways all day. im just glad nobody became a pirate. i say we need a new rule. you drop your goggles you have to pit the next lap or black flag. more sponsor time and adds some intrigue.
dc?
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yak651 8/17/2014 3:04pm
8/17/2014 3:04pm
I don't know how to put it to not sound negative, but I believe (my opinion) mud takes away the advantage of those with more talent - and before you get all upset not saying it doesn't take a talent to ride mud. When I used to race all the time, I loved mud races because I was good at it and I could beat those that would pull me on dry tracks because they had more talent then me that the dry tracks let them use. I couldn't/wouldn't do some of the technical sections when the track was dry, but when muddy those sections weren't "do able" so it took that advantage away from them.
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themrtoad 8/17/2014 3:09pm
8/17/2014 3:09pm
Sunhouse wrote:
I agree with you. Some of our riders are too spoiled. If they don´t make it, they can make a good living regardless, so they are...
I agree with you. Some of our riders are too spoiled. If they don´t make it, they can make a good living regardless, so they are not willing to put in the work. Heibye was doing ok in the GP´s, improving slowly but surely. WTF is up with focusing on the Swedish and Norwegian nationals. The guy was one of a handful of 250 riders who could do the triple at Lommel at the 2012 MXDN´s, and his results were good enough to build on. But unfortunately our riders either don´t want to give it 100%, or they end up injured. I´m guessing it has to do with the poor standard of our tracks. Once they hit professional tracks they end up on the ground quite often. I´m Hoping Magne Klingsheim has the guts to go for it. This year has been a struggle at times, but he is still young. I´m guessing Heibye "don´t want none" anymore.

I wish that some of the Scandinavian guys would try to team up and learn the ropes by doing for example the Canadian series for a year to learn before they try American racing. But they would rather stay at home with their buddies it seems. I´m so happy for Norèn, he is tough and willing to think outside the box. He proves that it is possible.

Was it Thuresson who crashed really hard at the Uddevalla GP in 2010? He was knocked out cold for half the race at the bottom of the downhill past the pit area
It was Mats Åkerblom that almost killed himself there
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Sunhouse 8/17/2014 3:34pm
8/17/2014 3:34pm Edited Date/Time 8/17/2014 3:35pm
themrtoad wrote:
It was Mats Åkerblom that almost killed himself there
thanks! Do you know if he recovered? It was really nasty
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Olson 8/17/2014 4:06pm
8/17/2014 4:06pm
Sunhouse wrote:
thanks! Do you know if he recovered? It was really nasty
He did, he's still racing, at least he lined up at one round of the Swedish Championship last year.
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davistld01 8/17/2014 4:17pm
8/17/2014 4:17pm Edited Date/Time 8/17/2014 4:18pm
IMO...Honda should make room for him in the rig, and let him pit with Canard & Seely in the 2015 SX series. Give the kid a factory 450 & a contract based on performance. Noren is for real, and has made Honda look really good to have given him the opportunity to ride the bike. Honda needs a leg up to rise to the dream team they once were...and a team of Canard, Seely & Noren might be the key.
Crisp BRAAAP! 8/17/2014 5:10pm
8/17/2014 5:10pm
davistld01 wrote:
IMO...Honda should make room for him in the rig, and let him pit with Canard & Seely in the 2015 SX series. Give the kid a...
IMO...Honda should make room for him in the rig, and let him pit with Canard & Seely in the 2015 SX series. Give the kid a factory 450 & a contract based on performance. Noren is for real, and has made Honda look really good to have given him the opportunity to ride the bike. Honda needs a leg up to rise to the dream team they once were...and a team of Canard, Seely & Noren might be the key.
Especially outdoors: Canard is obviously amazing but Seely has been tooling around in the back all season. I don't know if he's been hurt or what but he's going to get waxed on a 450 riding like that outdoors. Noren could help pick up some slack, but I guess they'll have him with some factory parts and help anyway. They probably don't have the budget for the truck/mechanic/bike etc.
implicate order 8/17/2014 5:32pm
8/17/2014 5:32pm
philG wrote:
Think this says more about Dungey than it does about Noren, if a guy who is racing out of the back of a van at the...
Think this says more about Dungey than it does about Noren, if a guy who is racing out of the back of a van at the start of the series can come and pass the guy who is supposed to be winning the series (according to some) , you have to say one of them isnt performing.

Noren is a good rider, no doubt, but he isnt factory good. Deserves help, for sure , but i think that as the 450 field is weak this year, what with injuries , 'illnesses' , guys riding in Canada etc... you pretty much have 10 guys who are good , a bunch of privateers who are trying , and the rest are locals making up the gate.

Be good to see how he stacks up against Filip Bengtsson at the Nations
implicate order wrote:
It says nothing about Dungey. In one of the threads that was moved to the dumbgeon, one of you Europeons said that mud was a great...
It says nothing about Dungey. In one of the threads that was moved to the dumbgeon, one of you Europeons said that mud was a great equalizer. Nothing could be further from the truth and that's why you have a guy like Sipes who was finishing well outside the top ten suddenly get a third. It's why you have someone like RC lapped the entire field. Do you honestly think for a moment RC could do that on a dry track? No way. Mud is not an equalizer.

Dungey was outgunning Roczen and catching up BIG TIME...and then the mud. Yes, they all ride the same track, but when racing in the mud anything can happen and it sucks to see a title go down to who gets the cleaner start and can keep their goggles the cleanest.

I'm sure Roczen is happy it rained since it gave him back his points that he lost on the dry turf.
philG wrote:
its an equalizer in terms of equipment and preparation, once you remove the bike advantage , and the ability to gain seconds a lap by jumping...
its an equalizer in terms of equipment and preparation, once you remove the bike advantage , and the ability to gain seconds a lap by jumping stuff that you just wont make on a stock bike, all of a sudden, the lesser lights get a chance to shine .

Motocross is a rain or shine sport , and in a time when tracks are groomed to virtual perfection week in week out , its good to see it coming down to a rider who can dig deep when he has to.

Dungey did nothing in Moto2, he gated 10th, and pretty much stayed there the whole race. Noren got his finger out and put in a shift.

It not like it was even that muddy.
It's not an equalizer at all. It's not even about "digging deep" as much as it is about getting a good start and keeping your goggles on. Like I said, Roczen should be thankful it rained because it worked to his advantage.
implicate order 8/17/2014 5:37pm
8/17/2014 5:37pm
philG wrote:
Think this says more about Dungey than it does about Noren, if a guy who is racing out of the back of a van at the...
Think this says more about Dungey than it does about Noren, if a guy who is racing out of the back of a van at the start of the series can come and pass the guy who is supposed to be winning the series (according to some) , you have to say one of them isnt performing.

Noren is a good rider, no doubt, but he isnt factory good. Deserves help, for sure , but i think that as the 450 field is weak this year, what with injuries , 'illnesses' , guys riding in Canada etc... you pretty much have 10 guys who are good , a bunch of privateers who are trying , and the rest are locals making up the gate.

Be good to see how he stacks up against Filip Bengtsson at the Nations
implicate order wrote:
It says nothing about Dungey. In one of the threads that was moved to the dumbgeon, one of you Europeons said that mud was a great...
It says nothing about Dungey. In one of the threads that was moved to the dumbgeon, one of you Europeons said that mud was a great equalizer. Nothing could be further from the truth and that's why you have a guy like Sipes who was finishing well outside the top ten suddenly get a third. It's why you have someone like RC lapped the entire field. Do you honestly think for a moment RC could do that on a dry track? No way. Mud is not an equalizer.

Dungey was outgunning Roczen and catching up BIG TIME...and then the mud. Yes, they all ride the same track, but when racing in the mud anything can happen and it sucks to see a title go down to who gets the cleaner start and can keep their goggles the cleanest.

I'm sure Roczen is happy it rained since it gave him back his points that he lost on the dry turf.
jamma10 wrote:
So basically you're saying Roczen and Canard just sort of lucked into their 1-2 and 3-1 race results?
No, I'm saying Roczen is lucky it rained and created a sloppy mess.
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Robgvx 8/18/2014 12:54am
8/18/2014 12:54am
GuyB wrote:
I'm sure you have.

Of course, growing up, you probably had to walk to school through raging blizzards, and it was uphill both ways. Wink
thrillbillie91 8/18/2014 1:01am
8/18/2014 1:01am
GuyB wrote:
I'm sure you have.

Of course, growing up, you probably had to walk to school through raging blizzards, and it was uphill both ways. Wink
Robgvx wrote:
[img]https://www.robandrewsmx.com/uploads/images/full/Spanish%20GP,%201987(2).jpg[/img]
uk in the summer ? Smile
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Sunhouse 8/18/2014 1:12am
8/18/2014 1:12am
Olson wrote:
I don't think Klingsheim will leave the GPs for as long as he has a good ride. No reason to leave the good bike he has...
I don't think Klingsheim will leave the GPs for as long as he has a good ride. No reason to leave the good bike he has to go full privateer in the states.

A lot of kids are looking up to Noren and wants to do the same thing. The AMA has always been the dream to do for Swedish kids growing up but the lack of a role model or a guy proving it can be done have made racers to opt for the GPs instead. Now you have got Noren making a name for himself over there, Robert Lind racing all of the rounds in SX and racing MX. We also have Nicklas Gustavsson racing a handful of races, Jonas Carlsson, Marcus Övgård and a couple of others doing the A-class.

A very luxury problem is that Bengtsson is doing very well at the same time in the GPs and he's doing the Swedish Championship too so the younger riders gets to see him in person at the races and see what a good guy he is. For Noren racing in the states makes it harder for younger kids to follow what he's acctually doing over there, the races are harder to catch and the exposure is minimal.

It seems Alvin Östlund, Anton Gole, Anton Lundgren and Eddie Hjortmarker are planing to stay in the GPs. Filip Thuresson have plans doing SX this winter but not sure if Honda Germany will let him.

Tom Johnsson, Ken Bengtsson and Kalle Olsson are riders that might be able to do an international thing, but racing in the states seems not likely, Ken is suited for the GP style tracks. Kalle might be the right guy to do it, but he better do it soon. Noren left for the states right after his first MX2 title in Sweden. Viktor Björklund have talked about racing in the states, he was there riding during this years off season. He's got the potential.

The 85cc class is too far away. Most of the guys fall out before even knowing their own potential, either because of injuries, other interests or just lack of support. But there is very promising riders. The youth races pop up every where, there's an 85cc race going on every weekend during the season.
It sounds like Sweden has a lot of potentially good riders. But the problem is, much like here, to make them go all in and be wiling to put in the extra work.

Klingsheim is on a good bike now, but I doubt that will last. I guess he will have to make some tough choices when his time with Bike It is over. I´m guessing he will go home, but IMO a better option would be to do what Norén is doing

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Robgvx 8/18/2014 2:05am
8/18/2014 2:05am
GuyB wrote:
I'm sure you have.

Of course, growing up, you probably had to walk to school through raging blizzards, and it was uphill both ways. Wink
Robgvx wrote:
[img]https://www.robandrewsmx.com/uploads/images/full/Spanish%20GP,%201987(2).jpg[/img]
thrillbillie91 wrote:
uk in the summer ? Smile
Spain. You know, the place renowned for beautiful weather... Smile

thrillbillie91 8/18/2014 2:31am
8/18/2014 2:31am Edited Date/Time 8/18/2014 2:33am
like the gp in 08 that was a 'mudder' Smile

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Olson 8/18/2014 4:21am
8/18/2014 4:21am
Sunhouse wrote:
It sounds like Sweden has a lot of potentially good riders. But the problem is, much like here, to make them go all in and be...
It sounds like Sweden has a lot of potentially good riders. But the problem is, much like here, to make them go all in and be wiling to put in the extra work.

Klingsheim is on a good bike now, but I doubt that will last. I guess he will have to make some tough choices when his time with Bike It is over. I´m guessing he will go home, but IMO a better option would be to do what Norén is doing
They are at least good in our terms. Time will tell if they are good on an international level too. Alvin Östlund for example, have ridden extremely well in the EMX125 class and he also dominated the Swedish Junior Championship.

How old is Lasse Christoffersen? He's riding really good right now. Remi Nyegaard too. Need to go international.

I have the same feeling about Klingsheim. To go home and race Norges Cup and some rounds in the Swedish Championship after being out in Europe will just be a misery. Hope he goes to the states, might have a good chance to adapt to SX too, if he can keep it on two wheels.
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fidiot 8/18/2014 6:13am
8/18/2014 6:13am
Awesome ride by Noren! With a good start I think he could have gotten a top 5 finish or even landed on the podium.

Dungey goes from 12 to 9th. Noren goes from 40th to 8th.
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jamma10 8/18/2014 6:19am
8/18/2014 6:19am
implicate order wrote:
It says nothing about Dungey. In one of the threads that was moved to the dumbgeon, one of you Europeons said that mud was a great...
It says nothing about Dungey. In one of the threads that was moved to the dumbgeon, one of you Europeons said that mud was a great equalizer. Nothing could be further from the truth and that's why you have a guy like Sipes who was finishing well outside the top ten suddenly get a third. It's why you have someone like RC lapped the entire field. Do you honestly think for a moment RC could do that on a dry track? No way. Mud is not an equalizer.

Dungey was outgunning Roczen and catching up BIG TIME...and then the mud. Yes, they all ride the same track, but when racing in the mud anything can happen and it sucks to see a title go down to who gets the cleaner start and can keep their goggles the cleanest.

I'm sure Roczen is happy it rained since it gave him back his points that he lost on the dry turf.
jamma10 wrote:
So basically you're saying Roczen and Canard just sort of lucked into their 1-2 and 3-1 race results?
implicate order wrote:
No, I'm saying Roczen is lucky it rained and created a sloppy mess.
You're odd.

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