Wow, RJ thinks James is the best ever!

Crash82
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Crash82 7/29/2014 6:06am
7/29/2014 6:06am
James is the best 125 rider ever, no one can argue that point.

Try reading or paying attention before y'all break out the RC apple polisher.

"The best rider ever, at least in terms of technique and speed, is James Stewart."
huck
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huck 7/29/2014 6:13am
7/29/2014 6:13am
Crash82 wrote:
James is the best 125 rider ever, no one can argue that point. Try reading or paying attention before y'all break out the RC apple polisher...
James is the best 125 rider ever, no one can argue that point.

Try reading or paying attention before y'all break out the RC apple polisher.

"The best rider ever, at least in terms of technique and speed, is James Stewart."
RC's technique and speed had him finish in front of James Stewart many more times than not.....
Drtbykr
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Drtbykr 7/29/2014 6:46am
7/29/2014 6:46am
He was/is an innovator. Like an RD cross-up. I've seen RC and JS7 both ride, f the points, I wanna be mesmerized. JS7 does that. Getting older now, but watch a reply of this year's TO SX.

Bench racing is fun, but best ever is kind of a dumb argument, different era's, bike and such.

I would say, if u r a pro, and that is your job...the best ever is whoever gets out of the sport with their health (some luck needed there) and the most dough.

I respect all that come out clean. If I was a high level pro MX'er, I couldn't have avoided drugs and fast cars and women. Would have been kinda like the Lindsey Lohan of MX.


gabrielmalinois 7/29/2014 6:56am
7/29/2014 6:56am
I think RV would out RC RC. RV took where RC left off and improved and built on it. I would say RV is the closest in speed to JS7 in his prime but consistent like Carmichael. After further thought I would rank them

2013 RV
2008 Bubba
2004 RC
1998 Tortelli
1997 Everts
1991 JMB
1989 RJ (pre wrist injury)

For a season and

2008 Bubba
1998 Tortelli
2013 RV
2004 RC
1989 RJ (pre wrist injury)
1997 Everts
1991 JMB

Lined up on their best race day. (Raw Speed)


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davistld01
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davistld01 7/29/2014 7:01am
7/29/2014 7:01am
Tradmark wrote:
How exactly does one determine the most talent. I always judged it by winning championships. I could see where the case could be made james had...
How exactly does one determine the most talent. I always judged it by winning championships. I could see where the case could be made james had an edge in sx in speed and being stupid but to think he was in mx means youre f-ing high.

I also dont think stewart is faster than villopoto
Stewart is faster than RV when things are just right...and vice versa. RV has the edge on consistancy though. He crashes more than some, but not as often as Stewart. I guess crashing is the price to be paid when you tend to ride on the edge...
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Park Boys 7/29/2014 8:53am
7/29/2014 8:53am Edited Date/Time 7/29/2014 8:54am
If your picking and choosing best years to compare riders it would be to tough.

RC MX from 2004 thru 07 was only beaten by James a few times without an RC crash ala moto 1 southwick and Unidilla 2005. In MX RC is king, for a single SX season I would take 07 James over 96MC,01RC,88-89 RJ.

I will say this though on my all time list RJ is number 2 only behind RC, He won a races on a bike that Hannah hated and when he got on a Honda in 86 only David beat him for a title "straight up". 87 SX RJ had a couple injury's and still won half the races and he lost the 88 250 MX title because of a radiator hose falling off. If RJ would not have gotten hurt in 89 he would have won everything for at least a few years.
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FLmxer 7/29/2014 8:58am
7/29/2014 8:58am
99 percent of all pro motocross racers say RC is the GOAT including James and James is amazing. The other three people that disagree are welcome to their opinion. lol
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CR250Rider 7/29/2014 9:38am
7/29/2014 9:38am
He lost me at "because his style would have broken the bike. "

Ya okaaay
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rcm406 7/29/2014 9:48am
7/29/2014 9:48am Edited Date/Time 7/29/2014 9:55am
Crash82 wrote:
James is the best 125 rider ever, no one can argue that point. Try reading or paying attention before y'all break out the RC apple polisher...
James is the best 125 rider ever, no one can argue that point.

Try reading or paying attention before y'all break out the RC apple polisher.

"The best rider ever, at least in terms of technique and speed, is James Stewart."
huck wrote:
RC's technique and speed had him finish in front of James Stewart many more times than not.....
"many more time"? Not really!

2005 -2007 going head to head:

SX:
James - 16 wins
RC - 8 wins

MX: Sure, RC won more head to head match ups, and I'm not sure on the exact moto wins for each, but they split a lot of the motos with RC usually winning the second therefore getting the OA, especially in 2007, even when James had a jacked up knee going in to the outdoors.

IMO, RC really only gave James one full season(2006)to try and beat him and he damn near did, then he retired. James was only 19yrs old and basically a rookie in the 450 class racing RC in his prime. How did RC do his first two years in the big boy class?Whistling
implicate order 7/29/2014 9:52am
7/29/2014 9:52am
rcm406 wrote:
Funny, I share his opinion as well!;) From MXA interview: WHO IS THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME? I don’t believe that Ricky Carmichael is the greatest...
Funny, I share his opinion as well!Wink

From MXA interview:

WHO IS THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME? I don’t believe that Ricky Carmichael is the greatest of all time. He is awesome. He is a great champion. But to say that he’s the best of all time? I don’t think that he would have survived had he raced in an earlier era. He was too small. He could not ride in the 1960s with Roger DeCoster and Joel Robert, because his style would have broken the bike. He would have been injured. Yes, he’s the greatest of his time, but not all time. I’m not saying that I’m better, but to put that label on him isn’t quite right with me.

SO WHO IS THE BEST? The best rider ever, at least in terms of technique and speed, is James Stewart. He’s not very smart and he crashes a lot, but when he does it right, he does things that make me scratch my head. I could always figure out what Broc Glover was doing on the bike. The same with Ryan Villopoto and Ryan Dungey. Then you watch Stewart and you go, “Where did that come from?” But, he needs to learn to pull back. There’s no rule that says that you have to win the race by 10 minutes.
I agree with RJ on this one. I don't see how you can say any one rider is the greatest of all time. RC would not have stood a chance on a bigger, heavier bike with his small stature.

As far as the question as to who is the best? I'd give RC that title outdoors and James indoors in terms of technique and speed.
TDeath21
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TDeath21 7/29/2014 9:54am
7/29/2014 9:54am
gabrielmalinois wrote:
Stewart for sure had RC covered in Supercross, In outdoors my memory is a little skewed because the only time I saw them race each other...
Stewart for sure had RC covered in Supercross, In outdoors my memory is a little skewed because the only time I saw them race each other was at Washougal in 06. Both Motos it was clear they were both riding at 110% speed and JS7 came out top. In 07 Bubba had a messed up knee. If he had been healthy or if RC was to have raced in 08 I think JS7 had RC covered speed wise and maybe/probably could have been consistent enough to win the championships those years (maybe).
So you're making a lot of your judgements based on a race that was on RC's worst track on a day when James beat him, one of three times he ever beat RC outdoors. Okay makes sense. No way could James beat RC for an entire season outdoors. You're taking his 08 season and comparing it with Carmichael. That was the only season James never had to deal with his biggest weakness, which is pressure. Very skewed opinion you have, but to each his own. Everyone is entitled to theirs.

Stewart messed up his knee at Washougal in 07, which was well after his battles with Carmichael that season.
TDeath21
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TDeath21 7/29/2014 9:56am
7/29/2014 9:56am
I really don't understand the argument of handling the older bikes. That argument can be made the other way too. Sports change, and champions adapt.
FLmxer
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FLmxer 7/29/2014 10:01am
7/29/2014 10:01am
Also RC was at the point with James where MC was when RC got there. Past their prime but still kicked most everyones ass.
FLmxer
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FLmxer 7/29/2014 10:04am
7/29/2014 10:04am Edited Date/Time 7/29/2014 10:07am
I am in no way bashing James. He is my guy but man RC destroyed everyone almost every time he rode a dirtbike and it was expected. What does everyone expect when James gets on a bike? RC could of had 5 more championships easily if he wanted them.
implicate order 7/29/2014 10:10am
7/29/2014 10:10am Edited Date/Time 7/29/2014 10:10am
FLmxer wrote:
I am in no way bashing James. He is my guy but man RC destroyed everyone almost every time he rode a dirtbike and it was...
I am in no way bashing James. He is my guy but man RC destroyed everyone almost every time he rode a dirtbike and it was expected. What does everyone expect when James gets on a bike? RC could of had 5 more championships easily if he wanted them.
I would argue that James Stewart was faster in SX in 2005, 2006, and 2007 than RC. Do you remember Stewart jumping over an entire whoop section with Chad Reed right behind him? Reed didn't do that and must have been stunned watching Stewart do it. I think that is RJ's point when talking about Stewart.
gabrielmalinois 7/29/2014 11:08am
7/29/2014 11:08am
gabrielmalinois wrote:
Stewart for sure had RC covered in Supercross, In outdoors my memory is a little skewed because the only time I saw them race each other...
Stewart for sure had RC covered in Supercross, In outdoors my memory is a little skewed because the only time I saw them race each other was at Washougal in 06. Both Motos it was clear they were both riding at 110% speed and JS7 came out top. In 07 Bubba had a messed up knee. If he had been healthy or if RC was to have raced in 08 I think JS7 had RC covered speed wise and maybe/probably could have been consistent enough to win the championships those years (maybe).
TDeath21 wrote:
So you're making a lot of your judgements based on a race that was on RC's worst track on a day when James beat him, one...
So you're making a lot of your judgements based on a race that was on RC's worst track on a day when James beat him, one of three times he ever beat RC outdoors. Okay makes sense. No way could James beat RC for an entire season outdoors. You're taking his 08 season and comparing it with Carmichael. That was the only season James never had to deal with his biggest weakness, which is pressure. Very skewed opinion you have, but to each his own. Everyone is entitled to theirs.

Stewart messed up his knee at Washougal in 07, which was well after his battles with Carmichael that season.
The only season they truly went head to head was in 06. (05 Bubba was on a 250 two stroke) and 07 JS7 had a messed up knee and RC only raced some. I don't think their head to head paints the entire picture because JS7 was still young and getting used to racing a four stroke an getting used to the class. Once he was comfortable with both RC retired.
TDeath21
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TDeath21 7/29/2014 11:23am
7/29/2014 11:23am
gabrielmalinois wrote:
Stewart for sure had RC covered in Supercross, In outdoors my memory is a little skewed because the only time I saw them race each other...
Stewart for sure had RC covered in Supercross, In outdoors my memory is a little skewed because the only time I saw them race each other was at Washougal in 06. Both Motos it was clear they were both riding at 110% speed and JS7 came out top. In 07 Bubba had a messed up knee. If he had been healthy or if RC was to have raced in 08 I think JS7 had RC covered speed wise and maybe/probably could have been consistent enough to win the championships those years (maybe).
TDeath21 wrote:
So you're making a lot of your judgements based on a race that was on RC's worst track on a day when James beat him, one...
So you're making a lot of your judgements based on a race that was on RC's worst track on a day when James beat him, one of three times he ever beat RC outdoors. Okay makes sense. No way could James beat RC for an entire season outdoors. You're taking his 08 season and comparing it with Carmichael. That was the only season James never had to deal with his biggest weakness, which is pressure. Very skewed opinion you have, but to each his own. Everyone is entitled to theirs.

Stewart messed up his knee at Washougal in 07, which was well after his battles with Carmichael that season.
gabrielmalinois wrote:
The only season they truly went head to head was in 06. (05 Bubba was on a 250 two stroke) and 07 JS7 had a messed...
The only season they truly went head to head was in 06. (05 Bubba was on a 250 two stroke) and 07 JS7 had a messed up knee and RC only raced some. I don't think their head to head paints the entire picture because JS7 was still young and getting used to racing a four stroke an getting used to the class. Once he was comfortable with both RC retired.
And even with Carmichael retired he only won three championships. That's not even close to GOAT status. If you look at those three he won, which were in the prime of his career, only one can you say he might have still won against a prime carmichael. 09 SX and 08 MX would have been a no go for Stewart. 07 SX would have been a hell of a season. I'm not sure Stewart could have handled the week to week championship pressure that Carmichael would have placed on him though. It would have been fun to watch for sure.
qtrracer
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qtrracer 7/29/2014 1:52pm
7/29/2014 1:52pm
SX shouldn't even be used as a benchmark, a smooth track, banked turns indoor jumping contest does nothing to delineate great riders.
Mark Barnett was the greatest 125 rider ever, not even close.
And if we are judging by speed only Danny Chandler was the best ever, you can try and argue but you'd be wrong.

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Zracer
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Zracer 7/29/2014 2:09pm
7/29/2014 2:09pm
Crash82 wrote:
James is the best 125 rider ever, no one can argue that point. Try reading or paying attention before y'all break out the RC apple polisher...
James is the best 125 rider ever, no one can argue that point.

Try reading or paying attention before y'all break out the RC apple polisher.

"The best rider ever, at least in terms of technique and speed, is James Stewart."
huck wrote:
RC's technique and speed had him finish in front of James Stewart many more times than not.....
rcm406 wrote:
"many more time"? Not really! 2005 -2007 going head to head: SX: James - 16 wins RC - 8 wins MX: Sure, RC won more head...
"many more time"? Not really!

2005 -2007 going head to head:

SX:
James - 16 wins
RC - 8 wins

MX: Sure, RC won more head to head match ups, and I'm not sure on the exact moto wins for each, but they split a lot of the motos with RC usually winning the second therefore getting the OA, especially in 2007, even when James had a jacked up knee going in to the outdoors.

IMO, RC really only gave James one full season(2006)to try and beat him and he damn near did, then he retired. James was only 19yrs old and basically a rookie in the 450 class racing RC in his prime. How did RC do his first two years in the big boy class?Whistling
RC won 2 mx titles. Thats what he did in his first 2 years on a big bike. How did James do?
rcm406
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rcm406 7/29/2014 2:35pm
7/29/2014 2:35pm
huck wrote:
RC's technique and speed had him finish in front of James Stewart many more times than not.....
rcm406 wrote:
"many more time"? Not really! 2005 -2007 going head to head: SX: James - 16 wins RC - 8 wins MX: Sure, RC won more head...
"many more time"? Not really!

2005 -2007 going head to head:

SX:
James - 16 wins
RC - 8 wins

MX: Sure, RC won more head to head match ups, and I'm not sure on the exact moto wins for each, but they split a lot of the motos with RC usually winning the second therefore getting the OA, especially in 2007, even when James had a jacked up knee going in to the outdoors.

IMO, RC really only gave James one full season(2006)to try and beat him and he damn near did, then he retired. James was only 19yrs old and basically a rookie in the 450 class racing RC in his prime. How did RC do his first two years in the big boy class?Whistling
Zracer wrote:
RC won 2 mx titles. Thats what he did in his first 2 years on a big bike. How did James do?
Had 11 SX wins and a FIM world SX title. Would've had the AMA title too if not for fuelgate! Tongue Not to good in MX though on that 250 2stroke in 2005 going up against RCs works 450! Only 3 wins in 2006. Not bad huh? Thanks for playin!Wink
smeg
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smeg 7/29/2014 3:16pm
7/29/2014 3:16pm
2005-2007 SX points

RC = 865
JS = 850

Damn close but....................... well we'll let the numbers do the talking

Thanks for playing Wink
rcm406
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rcm406 7/29/2014 3:29pm
7/29/2014 3:29pm Edited Date/Time 7/29/2014 3:34pm
smeg wrote:
2005-2007 SX points

RC = 865
JS = 850

Damn close but....................... well we'll let the numbers do the talking

Thanks for playing Wink
Uhhh OKDizzy Dry you really stuck it to meDry and you can add too!Laughing
Tim507
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Tim507 7/29/2014 6:41pm
7/29/2014 6:41pm
Just read the RJ article/comments. I found it quite interesting and refreshing. I did not sense an air of arrogance nor bias.
Rather an open conversation about his feelings and comments about our sport.

In his comment about JS he qualified his opinion very clearly....we'll done RJ.
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Motodave15 7/29/2014 9:30pm
7/29/2014 9:30pm
implicate order wrote:
I would argue that James Stewart was [i]faster[/i] in SX in 2005, 2006, and 2007 than RC. Do you remember Stewart jumping over an entire whoop...
I would argue that James Stewart was faster in SX in 2005, 2006, and 2007 than RC. Do you remember Stewart jumping over an entire whoop section with Chad Reed right behind him? Reed didn't do that and must have been stunned watching Stewart do it. I think that is RJ's point when talking about Stewart.
StartedTooLate 7/29/2014 10:15pm
7/29/2014 10:15pm
It all depends on what you consider the 'best ever'.
*The best overall career?
*The highest level at which anyone ever rode...even if for only one season?

When you ask most pro racers who they think the best ever is in SX...most of them will say Stew...because of the level he can ride at when he is at his best. RC...Windham....guys like that have said more than once that when Stew is/was 'on' in SX...you are racing for 2nd.
kong0036
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kong0036 7/29/2014 11:03pm
7/29/2014 11:03pm Edited Date/Time 7/29/2014 11:04pm
The best way to explain this is.

1st . Build a super technical MX/SX track that has rhythm sections from double's to triple's that can be turned into quads if you have the skill and big whoops. Then put all those riders (which everyone is debating over ) on that track for 1 lap and that will tell you which rider has the most talent,technique and speed, not the best racer. Answer James Stewart

2nd put them all on that same track and now make it for 30 mins then you will have the answer for which rider is best racer and champion. Answer RC

Also the key to this answer is what RJ said not what you guys are asking



Whoops_Blitzer 7/29/2014 11:05pm
7/29/2014 11:05pm
qtrracer wrote:
SX shouldn't even be used as a benchmark, a smooth track, banked turns indoor jumping contest does nothing to delineate great riders. Mark Barnett was the...
SX shouldn't even be used as a benchmark, a smooth track, banked turns indoor jumping contest does nothing to delineate great riders.
Mark Barnett was the greatest 125 rider ever, not even close.
And if we are judging by speed only Danny Chandler was the best ever, you can try and argue but you'd be wrong.
Old guy, old guy! QTRRacer is an old guy!
bd
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bd 7/30/2014 5:52pm
7/30/2014 5:52pm
James was a rocket on the 125. That said, I have no problem with Mark Barnett being included with the conversation on 125 GOAT.
TDeath21
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TDeath21 7/30/2014 5:56pm
7/30/2014 5:56pm
bd wrote:
James was a rocket on the 125. That said, I have no problem with Mark Barnett being included with the conversation on 125 GOAT.
Just quoting your post because I haven't seen anyone mention Carmichael in this conversation? 4 out of 5 championships, never lost a championship outdoors, and an undefeated indoor season has to put you in that conversation, probably at the top in my opinion.

Post a reply to: Wow, RJ thinks James is the best ever!