Can the AMA fix the flagging problems

Starter Bob
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8/25/2008 4:35pm
KMC440 wrote:
Starter Bob, E-mail me and I'll send you another flagging video. Don't expect any pro riders or anything, just facts. kmc440@juno.com oh... #4.... they need to...
Starter Bob, E-mail me and I'll send you another flagging video. Don't expect any pro riders or anything, just facts.

kmc440@juno.com

oh... #4.... they need to be in the most visible place to the riders... not nessecarily the safest, that would be back at the motel swimming pool.
Thanks for rewording #4 better. What I was trying to say was to balance visability and safety.
YAKMX
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8/25/2008 4:47pm
The same troubles that we have with flaggers at the national level is compounded at the local level. Here in Western NY we have trouble even getting flaggers. Yes they are paid and fed,but seems as no one wants to do it. At the local level the day can run very long. Sometimes starting @ 8:30 am and ending around 7 pm Couple this with cold rainy weather ,or even snow sometimes. This makes for a long day. We have even called a race because of hypothermia worries. We have a no double jumping rule under yellow,but people still do it. A lot of racers don't look ahead and are suprised when they finally see it.
We have flaggers meetings each race day,but this does little to change a bored tired flagger during the day.

Traveling "professional" flaggers at the national level makes sense.Locally I don't know what the answer is.
psychcle
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8/25/2008 5:18pm
vet954 wrote:
Flagging should be a very highly paid position. 8+ hours in 90 degree heat and humidity protecting the lives and careers of over 100 top profesional...
Flagging should be a very highly paid position. 8+ hours in 90 degree heat and humidity protecting the lives and careers of over 100 top profesional riders should pay a minimum of $350.

And for the first time in my life I agree with TFS. It should be the responsibility of the AMA not the track owners.

At millville there was a very nice 18? yr old female flagger working on her tan in short shorts and tube top most of the day. It would be much more profesional to have a AMA official dressed the part doing the flagging.



x1,000,000
Racetime
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8/25/2008 7:14pm
"And for the first time in my life I agree with TFS. It should be the responsibility of the AMA not the track owners. "

I saw that.

The Shop

jonjon714
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8/25/2008 7:24pm
On average, how many flaggers are needed per race?
8/25/2008 8:08pm
I believe that something I came up with a few years back may benefit the situation from several standpoints. I call it the Roboflagger, and in essence it is nothing more than a flashing yellow stobe light, that can be hardwired or radiocontrolled from another perspective such as a lookout tower.Most tracks have one place such as the announcers tower that most of the jumps are visable. When finished with our system we will have 2 lookout points that will enable the observers to see the landings of all 12 jumps.Leading up to the jump will be strategically located roboflaggers to warn riders of danger.This system is NOT designed to replace the flaggers, but as an adjunct to assist them in the event that it would be necessary.(Head up flaggers ass) or in addition to competent flaggers. With this system there can even be a series of lights leading up to the incident.,as long as the frequencies are the same. This system would work for practice days where most tracks can't get 10-15 flaggers, but may be able to get 3-4. Each would be responsible for 2-3 jumps, they would be safe, dry/warm ect. Of course any system that relies on people is going to be subject to human error, but it is at least a back-up if the main flagger fails.Now I must add, what I feel is at least 50% of the problem, and that is that the riders, especially the pros and at Lorettas really don't pay too much attention to a yellow flag.I witnessed it up close and personal when my friend was helping to get a bike off of a rider at Lorettas this year.There were 3 yellow flags waving , plenty of time to take notice, and slow down,but no one did. 3 riders cliped my friend, who luckily was not injured, but was mad as hell.He wanted to have them disqualified, but no one took note of their numbers, in the midst of all of it. I saw it time and time again this year, and really can't understand the whole jumping on yellow deal.My point is that regardless of how good of job the flagger does, if they're jumping on yellow anyway, what is the point.
The Rock
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8/25/2008 9:24pm
The part about "turn them into a well respected crew" is my favorite part of your post. Flaggers can make the difference between a make or break season and for that matter even a career.

It's time the sport makes them an integral part of the program, begin a certification program, and have it be an honor and a privilege to flag at a National.
typ2vw159
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8/25/2008 9:54pm
It,s allways been kids,carny,s and tweekers?$60 bucks a day x 10=600 Bring your own lunch!
Friday
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8/25/2008 10:01pm
Good points.But let's not negate the importance of teen hotties tanning.Cool
The Rock
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7/9/2014 9:10am
I wonder if we will still be posting about flagging issues six years from now?
The Rock
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7/9/2014 9:15am
oldfart was spot on I think. My vote is we dress them all in yellow from head to toe so they are mobile Acerbis track markers Smile and stop cluttering the track with the yellow (white across the pond) Acerbis ones.

Seriously I like the idea of these guys being billboards and even will go as far to say in some sections of SX/MX these flaggers could be wearing protective equipment.
GuyB
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7/9/2014 9:44am
The Rock wrote:
I wonder if we will still be posting about flagging issues six years from now?
Hopefully you won't be bumping six-year-old threads six years from now.
The Rock
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7/9/2014 9:54am Edited Date/Time 7/9/2014 9:54am
Hopefully six years from now there still won't be flagging issues.
Dx3moto
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7/9/2014 10:03am
Professional racing deserves professional flaggers. The sport at the pro level can definitely use knowledgable flaggers over voluntary flaggers. Half the flaggers look like they have no idea what they're doing, or are too busy checking out the girls in the crowd than watching for downed riders. There are some committed flaggers out there, but it only takes one non committed flagger in a dangerous spot to seriously injure any of our professional riders.
The Rock
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7/9/2014 10:10am
Was it A1 in practice years ago that Albee took out Lusk (or vice versa) due to poor flagging? I am surprised that with the factories paying their stars millions a few hundred thousand can't be peeled off to pay for trained professional flaggers with the trade off being their star riders stand less of a chance to get hurt.

At the Glen Helen Nationals it is an all volunteer flagger deal but 99 percent of these guys are REM racers so they know the drill.
FreshTopEnd
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7/9/2014 12:01pm
The Rock wrote:
Hopefully six years from now there still won't be flagging issues.
Hopefully in six years you'll have moved your looney narcissism on to trying to ruin another moto board after succeeding at MotoTalk and failing here.
EddieC
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7/9/2014 12:44pm
What's not professional about this?

Everyone makes some great points. I know that the AMA does provide some flaggers for the nationals put not nearly enough to cover an entire track. The AMA flaggers have to work with what is provided to them at the races. Often times after a practice if situation arises where a section of the track needs an additional flagger, an AMA official will either move an existing flagger to that spot or ask the promoter to find another flagger.

Personally I believe flaggers at a minimum should be individuals whom themselves have raced. I say this because a racer understands race lines. There is the main line and alternate lines. Also a racer will understand the flow of the track from one section to the next.
In the event a rider should fall in the main line a flagger with race experience can redirect riders starting from the jump or turn prior to the section where the down rider is at. Doing so you will on most occasions steer the riders away from the down rider and the medical team.
AMA officials understand this and do a great job, but it is difficult to convey this to a non-racer flagger, let alone trying to explain it to them on race day.

With regards to compensation, YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. In all honesty you are asking someone to spend an entire day monitoring one section of the track and if done appropriately that person is not going to be watching a race.


7/9/2014 12:46pm
The riders don't even get paid, you think flaggers are going to get paid?

That's insane, turn flagging into a skilled position? Then you'd have to pay them skilled wages....won't happen.
7/9/2014 1:00pm
Can the AMA fix the flagging problems? Yes, of course they can.

Will the AMA fix the flagging problems? No, their normal course of action is inaction. Ostrich management.

This won't get fixed until one of the manufacturers has a major issue that affects them and they run bitching to the AMA/DC/MXSports about the situation. Then there will be action to save face but still not resolve the issue.

I am more than willing to be proven wrong on this, but I have heard the chin boogie from the powers that be for so long I'll have to see it before I believe it.
The Rock
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7/9/2014 1:55pm
The Rock wrote:
Hopefully six years from now there still won't be flagging issues.
Hopefully in six years you'll have moved your looney narcissism on to trying to ruin another moto board after succeeding at MotoTalk and failing here.
Two things:

1) I hope in six years you will have that stick out of your butt. Motonews started taking its last breaths as soon as Hutch sold it and later getting rid of FFOTW was taking it off life support.

2) Judging by the amount of hits the majority of the threads I start especially Behind The Scenes stuff it appears you are in the minority but thanks for following my posts as much as you do.
GrapeApe
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7/9/2014 2:11pm
The Rock wrote:
Two things: 1) I hope in six years you will have that stick out of your butt. Motonews started taking its last breaths as soon as...
Two things:

1) I hope in six years you will have that stick out of your butt. Motonews started taking its last breaths as soon as Hutch sold it and later getting rid of FFOTW was taking it off life support.

2) Judging by the amount of hits the majority of the threads I start especially Behind The Scenes stuff it appears you are in the minority but thanks for following my posts as much as you do.
1) Vital doesn't have FFOTW, yet seems to do alright.

2) Have you seen how many hits some of Big Lenny's threads get? I'm not sure that's the true measure of one's contribution to a forum.


7/9/2014 2:11pm Edited Date/Time 7/9/2014 2:12pm
Why would anyone not racing care if they have good, bad or no flaggers?
Miscreant317
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7/9/2014 2:19pm
typ2vw159 wrote:
It,s allways been kids,carny,s and tweekers?$60 bucks a day x 10=600 Bring your own lunch!
wow ours are overpaid I guess. $70 a day and we provide lunch.
The Rock
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7/9/2014 4:29pm
GrapeApe wrote:
1) Vital doesn't have FFOTW, yet seems to do alright. 2) Have you seen how many hits some of Big Lenny's threads get? I'm not sure...
1) Vital doesn't have FFOTW, yet seems to do alright.

2) Have you seen how many hits some of Big Lenny's threads get? I'm not sure that's the true measure of one's contribution to a forum.


Thanks but one person trying to derail this thread is plenty.

Back on topic hopefully someone in the know will address who is actually responsible for the flagging. I am not sure it is "the AMA."
7/9/2014 4:39pm
It doesn't seem like the riders are able to respect the yellow flag with how often it is misused. It seems pretty frequent that I see the leaders pass by a yellow flag on the face of a blind jump and the downed rider is hundreds of feet away. Flaggers that do that are literally making the sport more dangerous.

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