Do you think bike can make/break a top rider ?

sozo
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Edited Date/Time 6/4/2014 12:41pm
Seems like the Kawi and KTM 450 bikes are very good outdoors ...
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6/3/2014 1:08pm Edited Date/Time 6/3/2014 1:08pm
Certainly.

Look at Chad Reed. Last year he was struggling hard to make it into the top ten outside.

This year he has two 10th place finishes.
sozo
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6/3/2014 1:11pm Edited Date/Time 6/3/2014 1:13pm
TripleFive wrote:
Certainly. Look at Chad Reed. Last year he was struggling hard to make it into the top ten outside. This year he has two 10th place...
Certainly.

Look at Chad Reed. Last year he was struggling hard to make it into the top ten outside.

This year he has two 10th place finishes.
Don't know if you are being sarcastic...??? This year he has 2 weeks on the bike after 5 months off... Last year he had 2 months on the new bike before outdoors...
Spagina767
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6/3/2014 1:15pm
Absolutely. If you don't think so, you're crazy. The "feel" those guys need to ride at the pace they do, requires complete confidence in their machine. If it performs poorly, they aren't 100% mentally. When you don't feel 100% you ride tight, make more mistakes, get arm pump, and will not be as good as on a day where everything clicks.

Call it a placebo effect if you want, but at that level, the bike has to make a difference.. It's only logical.
GrapeApe
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6/3/2014 1:18pm
Definitely. Look at Canard, he seems to flow and be one with his bike. On the other hand, you have a guy like Barcia who resembles a monkey f-ing a football on his bike.

The Shop

hvaughn88
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6/3/2014 1:19pm
Make? No. Break? Yes.
sozo
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6/3/2014 1:22pm
So... do you think moves like JB to JGR is he feels the bike is holding him back ? I guess we will see next year.

Can Reed get win's on his Kawi when he feels up to speed ?

Will JS ever find a setup on the Zook with the new stiffer frame ? Desalle, Clement is killing it..

JG on JGR looks good and bad.

Trey seems to make the Honda work but is quite a bit back from the top guys... is he just that gritty ?
sozo
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6/3/2014 1:22pm
hvaughn88 wrote:
Make? No. Break? Yes.
That's a good perspective probably...
ChrisB10
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6/3/2014 1:31pm

Does bike matter? I think how much the bike is dialed in matters in any class in any event but in the 450 class I don't think brand matters. In the 250 class where HP is king I think bike matters big time. The Y2014 Z250F won the shootouts and was applauded by the testers for a motor that absolutely rips.

"In Auto Racing it's more machine, in Cycling it's more man but Motocorss is the ultimate balance of man and machine."
6/3/2014 1:39pm
In Auto Racing it's more machine, in Cycling it's more man but Motocorss is the ultimate balance of man and machine

You really couldn't be anymore wrong about the auto racing being all about the machine.

KlootZak
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6/3/2014 1:52pm
No, but confidence does and confidence is influenced by the bike Wink
FroDiddy
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6/3/2014 2:05pm Edited Date/Time 6/3/2014 2:06pm
Absolutely. A rider's confidence is a huge! Being confident in what you can do on a bike makes a difference. RV became a different animal after he hopped on the 2012 Kaw.
6/3/2014 2:08pm
Shit yes, name a crappy handling bike and you can find a rider who lost their confidence on it.

A good example is McGraths 02 KTM 250sx
Regis
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6/3/2014 2:28pm
It may be able to save you a little at the very elite level, but it isn't going to make or break you.

IMHO, I believe Reed, although his bike was not where he wanted it to be, was a little mentally done last year. He is the STRONGEST willed rider out there. BAR NONE. He believes himself to win, just like I think he doesn't help himself when he gets in a rut.

Barcia will struggle on whatever bike he rides. He rides it like a little bike, revs it. He has always ridden like that and I don't believe you can ride and be successful on a 450.

Take a guy like Peick. He will do as good as he did without the ride. But now he will get to actually enjoy it and bank some money. I don;t think his results will get way better then they have in the past, it will just be easy to string more of them together.

A talented rider, hen mentally right can and will do good on any bike. You can't replace talent.
40Plus_922mx
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6/3/2014 2:33pm
Yes, yes and yes.

I am not fast by any stretch of the definition. But one time I was riding/racing an 05KX315F with full ENZO susp and RPM tuned big bore. I thought I was as fast as I could go till I rode my friends 05 CRF 250 with a pipe and suspension. Because the CRF250 actually handled and did nothing weird under me I was much faster. Sold the 315 a week later.

So I can only imaging how much more sensitive a top rider is.
Ing
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6/3/2014 2:41pm
I think any of the top machines are capable of winning. Put a healthy RV on any brand and the results are the same. The bikes aren't that different that a rider can't make it work.
6/3/2014 2:47pm
It seems almost every rider is not happy with their bike right? So I kinda think they always blame anything but themselves.
6/3/2014 3:25pm Edited Date/Time 6/3/2014 3:37pm
Yes to both.

It can certainly break a season or two - which in turn can lead to a period of trying to rebuild former confidence. A classic example would be Mike Larocco going from Kawasaki to Suzuki in 96 (McGrath of course in 97). With that said idk how common a situation like that is these days. All the modern bikes seem fairly good without any critical design flaws carried over from stock, and only minor issues depending upon personal preference. (Edit: Though of course at this level where every fraction of a second is vital, those minor issues may equal something quite serious if unsolved).

In regards to success; it depends on what you mean by "make". I think new found confidence and belief in a bike can certainly send a rider over the edge to a new level if they're somewhat close to it to begin with. Obviously, as with any single aspect, it can't do it alone. Chad Reed going to Suzuki in 09 seemed to elevate his performance significantly for that season.
Boxermann
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6/3/2014 3:59pm
Regis wrote:
It may be able to save you a little at the very elite level, but it isn't going to make or break you. IMHO, I believe...
It may be able to save you a little at the very elite level, but it isn't going to make or break you.

IMHO, I believe Reed, although his bike was not where he wanted it to be, was a little mentally done last year. He is the STRONGEST willed rider out there. BAR NONE. He believes himself to win, just like I think he doesn't help himself when he gets in a rut.

Barcia will struggle on whatever bike he rides. He rides it like a little bike, revs it. He has always ridden like that and I don't believe you can ride and be successful on a 450.

Take a guy like Peick. He will do as good as he did without the ride. But now he will get to actually enjoy it and bank some money. I don;t think his results will get way better then they have in the past, it will just be easy to string more of them together.

A talented rider, hen mentally right can and will do good on any bike. You can't replace talent.
Pike is better now on that factory machine.the new gen honda doesn't suit barcia,he's not struggling idiot he's placing amazing.you already seem to know how the yamaha will work for him before he does.the only true fact is you always have dumb shit to say
Regis
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6/3/2014 5:07pm Edited Date/Time 6/3/2014 5:24pm
Regis wrote:
It may be able to save you a little at the very elite level, but it isn't going to make or break you. IMHO, I believe...
It may be able to save you a little at the very elite level, but it isn't going to make or break you.

IMHO, I believe Reed, although his bike was not where he wanted it to be, was a little mentally done last year. He is the STRONGEST willed rider out there. BAR NONE. He believes himself to win, just like I think he doesn't help himself when he gets in a rut.

Barcia will struggle on whatever bike he rides. He rides it like a little bike, revs it. He has always ridden like that and I don't believe you can ride and be successful on a 450.

Take a guy like Peick. He will do as good as he did without the ride. But now he will get to actually enjoy it and bank some money. I don;t think his results will get way better then they have in the past, it will just be easy to string more of them together.

A talented rider, hen mentally right can and will do good on any bike. You can't replace talent.
Boxermann wrote:
Pike is better now on that factory machine.the new gen honda doesn't suit barcia,he's not struggling idiot he's placing amazing.you already seem to know how the...
Pike is better now on that factory machine.the new gen honda doesn't suit barcia,he's not struggling idiot he's placing amazing.you already seem to know how the yamaha will work for him before he does.the only true fact is you always have dumb shit to say
Pike (you mean Peick?) is better? He nearly made the podium at a race last year at Utah with a 4th.

He has always been good. He will continue to do good. He has shown what he is capable of before and will continue to show he deserves his ride.

Barcia?

He has always been good. He will continue to be good. His results will be the same. Which are great. I never said they weren't. However, you can sit back and see he is struggling or maybe I should have said "his bike isn't suiting him well" as you did? I stand behind what I said. I guess we will see, next year if the YAMAHA "makes" him huh? It is in my opinion that his "bam bam" style of over revving and riding a 450 will have him getting the same results. Sometimes he will win, sometimes he will look like a fish out of water. Just as he does now. I hope he kills it. I like him and his new team.

You sure did take everything I wrote and completely twisted it, as you typically do.

To get back to the OP's question. I do not think the bikes, at the top level will make or break you. A bike or team may make a rider more comfortable and it may make the riders results a little better, but NOBODY is going to lose so much or gain so much that it makes or breaks them. That just doesn't happen and if it does it isn't because of the bike.
Boxermann
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6/3/2014 5:25pm
Regis wrote:
It may be able to save you a little at the very elite level, but it isn't going to make or break you. IMHO, I believe...
It may be able to save you a little at the very elite level, but it isn't going to make or break you.

IMHO, I believe Reed, although his bike was not where he wanted it to be, was a little mentally done last year. He is the STRONGEST willed rider out there. BAR NONE. He believes himself to win, just like I think he doesn't help himself when he gets in a rut.

Barcia will struggle on whatever bike he rides. He rides it like a little bike, revs it. He has always ridden like that and I don't believe you can ride and be successful on a 450.

Take a guy like Peick. He will do as good as he did without the ride. But now he will get to actually enjoy it and bank some money. I don;t think his results will get way better then they have in the past, it will just be easy to string more of them together.

A talented rider, hen mentally right can and will do good on any bike. You can't replace talent.
Boxermann wrote:
Pike is better now on that factory machine.the new gen honda doesn't suit barcia,he's not struggling idiot he's placing amazing.you already seem to know how the...
Pike is better now on that factory machine.the new gen honda doesn't suit barcia,he's not struggling idiot he's placing amazing.you already seem to know how the yamaha will work for him before he does.the only true fact is you always have dumb shit to say
Regis wrote:
Pike (you mean Peick?) is better? He nearly made the podium at a race last year at Utah with a 4th. He has always been good...
Pike (you mean Peick?) is better? He nearly made the podium at a race last year at Utah with a 4th.

He has always been good. He will continue to do good. He has shown what he is capable of before and will continue to show he deserves his ride.

Barcia?

He has always been good. He will continue to be good. His results will be the same. Which are great. I never said they weren't. However, you can sit back and see he is struggling or maybe I should have said "his bike isn't suiting him well" as you did? I stand behind what I said. I guess we will see, next year if the YAMAHA "makes" him huh? It is in my opinion that his "bam bam" style of over revving and riding a 450 will have him getting the same results. Sometimes he will win, sometimes he will look like a fish out of water. Just as he does now. I hope he kills it. I like him and his new team.

You sure did take everything I wrote and completely twisted it, as you typically do.

To get back to the OP's question. I do not think the bikes, at the top level will make or break you. A bike or team may make a rider more comfortable and it may make the riders results a little better, but NOBODY is going to lose so much or gain so much that it makes or breaks them. That just doesn't happen and if it does it isn't because of the bike.
Regis,your a douche,always have been and always will be
Regis
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6/3/2014 5:29pm
Boxermann wrote:
Pike is better now on that factory machine.the new gen honda doesn't suit barcia,he's not struggling idiot he's placing amazing.you already seem to know how the...
Pike is better now on that factory machine.the new gen honda doesn't suit barcia,he's not struggling idiot he's placing amazing.you already seem to know how the yamaha will work for him before he does.the only true fact is you always have dumb shit to say
Regis wrote:
Pike (you mean Peick?) is better? He nearly made the podium at a race last year at Utah with a 4th. He has always been good...
Pike (you mean Peick?) is better? He nearly made the podium at a race last year at Utah with a 4th.

He has always been good. He will continue to do good. He has shown what he is capable of before and will continue to show he deserves his ride.

Barcia?

He has always been good. He will continue to be good. His results will be the same. Which are great. I never said they weren't. However, you can sit back and see he is struggling or maybe I should have said "his bike isn't suiting him well" as you did? I stand behind what I said. I guess we will see, next year if the YAMAHA "makes" him huh? It is in my opinion that his "bam bam" style of over revving and riding a 450 will have him getting the same results. Sometimes he will win, sometimes he will look like a fish out of water. Just as he does now. I hope he kills it. I like him and his new team.

You sure did take everything I wrote and completely twisted it, as you typically do.

To get back to the OP's question. I do not think the bikes, at the top level will make or break you. A bike or team may make a rider more comfortable and it may make the riders results a little better, but NOBODY is going to lose so much or gain so much that it makes or breaks them. That just doesn't happen and if it does it isn't because of the bike.
Boxermann wrote:
Regis,your a douche,always have been and always will be
Ok, internet tough guy.
ocscottie
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6/3/2014 5:44pm
HAR!!! at least you smell fresh & clean Reeg. Laughing

...freakin Vitards. Gotta love 'em...or not. Blink
Regis
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6/3/2014 5:48pm
ocscottie wrote:
HAR!!! at least you smell fresh & clean Reeg. Laughing

...freakin Vitards. Gotta love 'em...or not. Blink
Smile
newmann
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6/3/2014 6:00pm
Am I to believe little Ricky Carmichael always liked his bike and or bike setup? An outstanding rider will make do with what he has and excel. You could often times see RC struggling a bit but he just rode it to the front. Bad dude!
6/3/2014 6:04pm
No offense to Ricky but that field was his bitch and they weren't going to do anything but get out of his way.
BKoonts
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6/3/2014 6:27pm
I believe that Grant Langston was struggling with the 2007 Yamaha frame and when he switched mid-season to the 2008 design his results were vastly improved. Maybe I am dreaming here but I seem to remember that happening. One thing is for sure, 99.999% of us wouldn't notice the difference from one model year to another but when you are covering ground at the pace that those guys do I think it can make a huge difference.
Park Boys
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6/3/2014 7:20pm Edited Date/Time 6/3/2014 7:25pm
Dart Board wrote:
No offense to Ricky but that field was his bitch and they weren't going to do anything but get out of his way.
Stewart and Seb never did. Windham would try and make it tough on RC when he felt like it.
Park Boys
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6/3/2014 7:24pm
BKoonts wrote:
I believe that Grant Langston was struggling with the 2007 Yamaha frame and when he switched mid-season to the 2008 design his results were vastly improved...
I believe that Grant Langston was struggling with the 2007 Yamaha frame and when he switched mid-season to the 2008 design his results were vastly improved. Maybe I am dreaming here but I seem to remember that happening. One thing is for sure, 99.999% of us wouldn't notice the difference from one model year to another but when you are covering ground at the pace that those guys do I think it can make a huge difference.
You are correct he went from struggling to make top 5's bar southwick to winning the last 3 races and he should have won Washougal if not for Windham mistaking the white flag for the checkered flag. Was definitely the class of the field after he got on the 08.
resetjet
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6/3/2014 7:37pm
Ain't no different then it is for me and you. You are either good today or you are not. When you are one with your machine, you are usually good. When you are not, usually you are not and its the bikes fault..........


TeamGreen
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6/3/2014 9:17pm
ocscottie wrote:
HAR!!! at least you smell fresh & clean Reeg. Laughing

...freakin Vitards. Gotta love 'em...or not. Blink
Regis wrote:
Smile
Regis, I don't think they/he caught on to your statement of fact: Weston got a 5/5 at Utah on his own bike.

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