crickets

MXM
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603
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pickstick, BD
Edited Date/Time 11/30/2015 3:07pm
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rodb
Posts
52
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5/8/2011
Location
Ballwin, MO, USA
5/17/2014 7:26pm
Hopefullly rules will change as more 80's bikes start to show up.Also us 40 years old
need to start 80-90's post vintage movement! Just my opinon.
AzTrooper
Posts
228
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Location
Benson, AZ, USA
5/17/2014 7:32pm Edited Date/Time 5/17/2014 7:52pm
That's a great looking KX !!! IM sorry to hear about the problems that you are having. I kind of know how you feel. In the late 90's I raced my '79 Honda CR250R at a local track here in AZ at pretty much every race they held with a group of friends on post vintage bikes. One weekend a club that raced post vintage bikes came and held one of their club races there. Cool ! After practice one of their guys came up to me and told me I couldn't race because my Honda had Fox Forx which are 44 mm and their "rules" stated no forks over 43 mm but my Fox Airshox were just fine with them. Yet one of the guys had a set of works Yamaha forks on his YZ. I wasn't even a member of their club so I wouldn't have been taking points from anyone anyway. But the point is these forks were a period upgrade in fact these forks were given to me by a good friend of mine who is former AMA pro Kenny Schlosser who had them on his '79 CR250R in '79 . His National number in 1978 was #72 . We were both racing at a race in Sierra Vista here in AZ and I hadn't see him in a good 20yrs and I was racing my '79 in the Vet class. Anyway, it was around 1997 or so and we started catching up on old times and such and he mentioned to me that he still had his Elsinore and that after the race we could go to his house and he would show it to me. After the race we went to his house and Kenny actually GAVE me his bike and all his parts. Fox Forx, and a Thor swingarm included.. In the end my friends and I still raced in the same motos with their club but we were not scored with them. The guy who had the works forks on his YZ is a really good guy and a friend of mine so its not like there is any animosity or anything as far as that goes but their "rule" was just plain stupid. I could see if the forks came off a newer bike with technology not found on or commonly available during within the time frame of post vintage bikes or something but that was and is not the case.
Sorry for babbling and posting a novel
John
John
newmann
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USA
5/17/2014 8:31pm
I had some puss from Colorado protest me at Diamond Dons one year because I had a flat slide carb on my 80 CR125. BFD, it's my one AHRMA race a year and I'm going to still line up for moto two and kick your ass again. He was on a 79 CR125 with Simon's forks, DG swing arm, Fox Air's , DG head, big round slide Mikuni and an aftermarket pipe. Come to find out, he was in the "I made it to every race so I'm about to be National Champ" category and I was raining on his parade. Sad thing is I was fighting for a third place finish and he was way back in fourth in moto 1. Funny shit, he'll make a good chump....I mean champ.

Club rules are screwy and leave a lot to be desired when trying to make bikes comparable in classes. My flat slide carb was on the 80 CR125 several years before AHRMA was even allowing any post vintage bikes to be considered in their world. And now, a few years later flat slides are legal in that class.
notme
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569
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CA
5/17/2014 9:14pm
What a gong show, is it run by mini dads? ;/ Shouldnt it be just for fun, geeeez....

The Shop

MXM
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603
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pickstick, BD
5/17/2014 9:22pm Edited Date/Time 8/13/2015 8:48am
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Lonestar_399
Posts
600
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Location
Dallas, TX, USA
5/17/2014 9:33pm
newmann wrote:
I had some puss from Colorado protest me at Diamond Dons one year because I had a flat slide carb on my 80 CR125. BFD, it's...
I had some puss from Colorado protest me at Diamond Dons one year because I had a flat slide carb on my 80 CR125. BFD, it's my one AHRMA race a year and I'm going to still line up for moto two and kick your ass again. He was on a 79 CR125 with Simon's forks, DG swing arm, Fox Air's , DG head, big round slide Mikuni and an aftermarket pipe. Come to find out, he was in the "I made it to every race so I'm about to be National Champ" category and I was raining on his parade. Sad thing is I was fighting for a third place finish and he was way back in fourth in moto 1. Funny shit, he'll make a good chump....I mean champ.

Club rules are screwy and leave a lot to be desired when trying to make bikes comparable in classes. My flat slide carb was on the 80 CR125 several years before AHRMA was even allowing any post vintage bikes to be considered in their world. And now, a few years later flat slides are legal in that class.
After Diamond's I think "Dave" saw he wasn't "champ" level and kinda bailed. The class had a couple good riders that year from California that made enough races and won them...ole "Dave" wasn't going to buy one that year playing the role of Ryan Dungey.

The 1983 KX Disc omission is a rule that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. In 1983, even with the front disc the KX wasn't the best bike. I hope some day they go ahead and allow it in the Ultima class. Bikes from 1983 should be in the same class together. None had a big advantage over the other. The rule should fly if only the KX is allowed to run the disc me thinks. I think the 1980 KX125 should run in the GP class also. Again, no other bikes should be frankensteined to be uni's though. You're opening up a can of worms with people that don't ride in the "spirit of the sport" if disc and uni's are allowed and that's probably why AHRMA doesn't even want to deal with that headache. Only these bikes should be allowed to run these setups and it's simple in my opinion.

Also, the carb rules are as follows, I still don't think the flat slide Keihin is eligible: "CARBURETORS: Period-type carburetors are strongly encouraged. Period flatslide carbs are allowed on Historic and Gran Prix class motorcycles. Examplesinclude Lake, Lectron, Posa and other period-type flat-slides. Active acceleratorpump-equipped carburetors are allowed only on Ultima-class motorcycles; all others must be disconnected or removed, even if OEM-equipped. Dell’Orto accelerator pump carburetors are allowed in the Historic and Gran Prix classes only if the accelerator pump mechanism is disconnected or removed. Period flat-slide Mikuni carburetors are allowed only on Ultima class motorcycles. Keihin flat-slide carburetors are not permitted. No modern D-shape-slide or similar equivalent carburetors are allowed in AHRMA Post Vintage off-road competition"
5/17/2014 10:51pm
If I remember some of the rules were no disc brakes and no power valve in some classes but you could have water cooling and single shock. I remember some strange rules and it was hard to figure out what class you could ride.
ATKpilot99
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Lake Geneva, WI, USA
5/18/2014 6:55am
In the midwest vintage series they have an EVO 3 class in which front discs are allowed but no rear disc. It lists the year cutoff at 1989 which doesn't make much sense because I'm pretty sure all the bikes had rear discs by then.
Lonestar_399
Posts
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Location
Dallas, TX, USA
5/18/2014 7:39am
For the most part the bike classifications are fairly easy for the Sportsman through GP class but you need a rule book for the Ultima class and some of the very early Euro bikes. Here's the deal...It's a fun sport, the rulebooks and guidelines for all these vintage groups can be found on-line somewhere. Read up on them, buy a bike, enter in the class it falls into and go race. Hell, don't even buy a bike, just go out to an event and bench race. Anybody that does this, unless your a complete non-social goof or introvert, leaves with a smile on their face at the end of the day.
5/18/2014 7:49am Edited Date/Time 5/18/2014 8:00am
Most of the rules are made to fit what the board members seem to think is historically correct. One case is the DT-1 Yamaha not being allowed in the classic 250 class in AHRMA dirt track, when the rules at the time stated 1968 and earlier bikes were allowed. The DT-1 came out in '68, one of the most iconic bikes ever made. But the "Good 'ol Boy" club said no. Had two Trackmaster DT-1's that never were allowed in the class, yet 4 speed Bultaco's of like design up to 1970 models were allowed to run.

The boards / trustee's fit the rules to their agenda, not historically correct facts. Total BS, and one of the main reasons AHRMA Dirt Track races have barely a couple of handfuls of riders at their races these days. Have not supported those stooges since '95.

You want to see how AHRMA polices their rules, here is a good example. Read the thread. I was flabbergasted.


http://vintagebikeracing.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2525&sid=00e1fa24291ab…
5/18/2014 7:57am Edited Date/Time 5/18/2014 7:58am
I loved my '83 KX. If it was not the best 125 of 83, it was definitely the fastest. The Honda had maybe a bit of a handling edge, but when the throttles were turned to the stops, the KX was king. Only the forks were a bit off the mark. The Uni rear was just one step off of the Full Floater. Honda Pro-Links always had a terrible shock mounted to them for at least their first five years of existence.

5/18/2014 7:58am
Well I use this to an advantage.. :o) I race my 83 Husky 250 CR in the Evo class which is dual shock, drum brake air cooled.
So I am up against 79ish Japaneses bikes...
Who knew that Husky's dragging its feet to move into the modern age would be a technological advantage.
I agree. Rules should just be by year of bike
jammin76tx
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Location
Waco, TX, USA
5/18/2014 1:57pm
Just curious, could it be made legal by swapping to a set of '83 or earlier forks with a drum brake?
ATKpilot99
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Lake Geneva, WI, USA
5/18/2014 2:14pm
jammin76tx wrote:
Just curious, could it be made legal by swapping to a set of '83 or earlier forks with a drum brake?
I believe so . I've seen these types of conversions. Modifications are allowed as long as the parts you use are period correct.
MaxPower
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USA
5/18/2014 5:24pm
l could pick any vintage bike and I end up getting a 83 Kx. It figures, nothing I do in life is black and white. I always have a yea but and a story behind it. I swear, I don't look for this to happen.
I agree, The disc came stock in 83 and in 1983 anyone with 1400.00 could have owned a front disc brake and a funny looking rear fender number plate bike attached to it. I hope 83 yz125 are banned also. They had a power valve. The Kx didn't have one.
I don't care. They can put me in whatever class they wish. Most of the time the 125 class is so small that they all line up at one gate and score separate. I knew who I beat and who beat me. I've tossed countless trophies in the garbage over the years. I honestly don't care if I don't have one to take home. I built my bike for me to ride and enjoy And I'm going to do just that. Me and my disc brake bike. I also built it to be one of the guys on Vital Old School. And you wont nail me to a cross I hope for having a disc on a 83 bike. I hope.
One day I could fit a drum to it if it mattered to me. I probably wont though.
I plan on racing it in a few hare scrambles in the vet class against modern bikes. They won't care if there is a 31 year bike racing against new Ktms.

Why do you bring this point up MXM? Did you find a 82/83 KX?
5/18/2014 5:41pm Edited Date/Time 5/18/2014 5:52pm
jammin76tx wrote:
Just curious, could it be made legal by swapping to a set of '83 or earlier forks with a drum brake?
ATKpilot99 wrote:
I believe so . I've seen these types of conversions. Modifications are allowed as long as the parts you use are period correct.
Not at a official AHRMA event. My local VMX club is AVDRA and they use AHRMA rules. You would not be able to make that change and race one of their National events, but I think you could get away with it at one of their local club races.

When I first looked at getting into VMX racing a couple of years ago, I was wanting to race the GP3 class, which is no Disc, when I quit racing I had just got a 1983 CR250 and I really like it except for the left side kick, so when I was looking for a bike to restore and race in GP3, I thought it would be cool to get a 84 CR250 which was very similar to the 83 except they added the front disc and switched the chain to the left and kick to the right. I thought all I would have to do is put a 83 front end on it and I would be good to go, after talking to them I found out I could not make that change and be legal to race that class.
newmann
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5/18/2014 6:15pm
jammin76tx wrote:
Just curious, could it be made legal by swapping to a set of '83 or earlier forks with a drum brake?
ATKpilot99 wrote:
I believe so . I've seen these types of conversions. Modifications are allowed as long as the parts you use are period correct.
Not at a official AHRMA event. My local VMX club is AVDRA and they use AHRMA rules. You would not be able to make that change...
Not at a official AHRMA event. My local VMX club is AVDRA and they use AHRMA rules. You would not be able to make that change and race one of their National events, but I think you could get away with it at one of their local club races.

When I first looked at getting into VMX racing a couple of years ago, I was wanting to race the GP3 class, which is no Disc, when I quit racing I had just got a 1983 CR250 and I really like it except for the left side kick, so when I was looking for a bike to restore and race in GP3, I thought it would be cool to get a 84 CR250 which was very similar to the 83 except they added the front disc and switched the chain to the left and kick to the right. I thought all I would have to do is put a 83 front end on it and I would be good to go, after talking to them I found out I could not make that change and be legal to race that class.
That's odd, but not surprising. AHRMA rules are so screwy it isn't funny. I like the 74 -75 CR125's, that's my main addiction. But anyone over 130 pounds is in danger riding on those 31mm front forks. Good luck finding a set that isn't bent. My solution was to simply put a 76 CR125 35mm front end on and make sure the forks are set at exactly 7.0 inches of travel. Simple and safe fix not to mention they look damn near identical. But noooooo, not legal. What is legal though is to use a 76 CR125 set of triple clamps and a 35mm 7.1 inch travel 74 CR250 forks and front wheel. Odd setup, leading axle triples and straight leg forks. Or you can machine and fit a complete 36mm front end from a Maico onto your 74-75 CR125 Honda and call it legal. Talk about stupid looking. But AHRMA thinks that is the way to go. Dumb and dumber writing the rule book. Or Jeff Smith and Dick Mann.......
5/18/2014 6:17pm Edited Date/Time 5/18/2014 7:59pm
MXM wrote:
...
MXM It's funny that you just posted this, I had just posted something very similar on a FB VMX page about the vintage class that goes up to 1974, it states that no bike shall exceed 7'' front travel & 4'' of rear travel, I had just saw this ad for the 1974 Maico, and it said it came with 6 1/2'' of rear wheel travel, then I found out that 80% or more of the 74 bikes came with more than 4'' of travel, but you are allowed to race them in that class if you restrict the rear travel to 4''. and I thought the same as you about 83 KX, how stupid is that. Then some of the guys said it was so that it will be fair for the guys with the 70 -72 bikes. So then I wrote this >>>

At the local level, I'm sure there was lots of people in 73 &74 still racing 70 -72 bikes, if they wanted to compete with the newer better bikes, they either modified there existing bike or bought a new one. MX racing has never been fair for every one, with the Factory's and after market company's. if you want True fair racing the only way to achieve that is to have a spec class, were everyone races the exact same bike.

I realize that you have to draw some lines in technology to make classes, but at the level of racing that Vintage MX is, I really don't think you should stunt a few years of advancements to make it fair for a bike that is only a couple of years older.

To try to make it fair for every level of bike and racer you end up with a tons of classes with one or two riders in them.
I think they should broaden the classes and not restrict any bike that was produced.

If I was a hard core CZ guy and I wanted to race my 72 CZ in a class that allowed a 74 Maico to race, I would rather have the rules be realistic to how it was back in the day, and allow me to modify my 72 CZ to try to compete with the better newer bike, or get a 74 CZ to compete with the other 74 bikes, but I would not expect my 74 Maico buddy to handicap his bike so that I could compete fairly with him on my older less advanced bike.

But that's how I think.

MXM
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5/18/2014 6:31pm Edited Date/Time 8/13/2015 8:48am
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MXM
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pickstick, BD
5/18/2014 6:42pm Edited Date/Time 8/13/2015 8:48am
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edgo897
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579
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Land O Lakes, FL, USA
5/18/2014 7:06pm
With the demise of Florida Vintage Motocross, Sunshine State Vintage Motocross was born and I became Rules Committee Chairman. Our job was to set up bikes by class. All the old members of FLVMX wanted more bikes in classes so we set out to provide that and still try to keep it fair. With bigger classes you're going to get a strong model and a weak model in each class. We went with AHRMA rules for the Smith Class (as in Marty) which is '75 and earlier. The 1976 bikes are Tony D Class and TT500's get thrown in there. Hannah Class are '77/78. The next one is broader but we're going to try it the first year. 1979 and later bikes with drum brakes are Howerton Class. With Howerton bikes we allow linkage and water cooling. Pre 1989 bikes with a front disk are Bailey Class. 1990's bikes McGrath Class. 21st Century machines are Carmichael Class. 100cc Tripes Class. And were trying a new one, the Henry Class for 2002 older four strokes, just for the hell of it.

Everyone loves the class names but there was some grumbling. The thing is, based on what we get we will be happy to adapt classes in the future. I have a 1979 RM250 and I'll have to ride my butt off with some of the early 80's bikes. As 80's bikes come into their own for VMX we'll add a Rick Johnson Class for late 80's and refine the Bailey Class.

So your 1983 KX is Bailey Class. I think AHRMA does the same thing with the 1980 KX with the first Unitrack. It goes up to Ultima. You can class by year or class by function, we kind of did both. Everyone is willing to give it a go for now and see how it works knowing we can always change it based on how our membership grows.
MaxPower
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5/18/2014 7:58pm
Classifying riders according to riding ability is hard enough. Now making races fair by putting bike technology into the mix is next to impossible since mx bikes changed at such a rapid pace between 78 and 1984. My days of pursuing a factory ride are long gone (thats sarcasm) . Im into vmx for the people, fun day with my wife and dog, sound and smell of a 2 stroke and the thrill of racing that I thought could never experience again. If im lumped in with racing a 89 cr125 then I am. Maybe next season ill try to build a 86 powervalved kx engine and fit it in my frame. Or fit a drum brake on the front of my bike

Mxm, you should have gone to that race. You would have had fun. The jerk promoter never missed your 60.00. It would have been better to go there and poop in the port o john urinal next to his pit. I know you want a 82/83 kx. I will keep my eyes open. This way there can be two of us bitching in the track promoters ears of how we are victims
edgo897
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Land O Lakes, FL, USA
5/18/2014 8:12pm
There's a problem is when VMX is being run by "promoters". It should be club racing where members make the rules.
vet323
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Lead, SD, USA
5/19/2014 7:28am
MXM wrote:
...
Just wanted to come on here and say that I have been to that race in CO twice (missed this year because I had two sons graduate this weekend). The promoters, fellow racers and club members couldn't have been nicer . I had a great time.

As a some-time promoter, I must say that you cannot appreciate how many phone calls come in on the days leading up to an event. Some of the worst ones are calls from people the day before an event questioning rules and deadlines. What practical answer were you expecting that dude to give you less than a day before the race?

I'm not excusing anyone acting like a dick, if he did act like that it's unfortunate, but put yourself in his shoes. As Max said above, rule making to make everyone happy has got to be hard.
MXM
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5/19/2014 8:50am Edited Date/Time 8/13/2015 8:48am
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Lonestar_399
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Dallas, TX, USA
5/19/2014 9:02am Edited Date/Time 5/19/2014 9:03am
I'm curious as to who you were speaking with. This sounds like a national club, not AHRMA or the Rocky Mountain guys, you are having service problems with.

Most local clubs, as well as AHRMA, are non-profits (*there are a couple paid folks in AHRMA to handle all the paperwork and such). A lot of volunteers that have everyday jobs sign up to keep this vintage world driven. Please be aware if it's a local race your local coordinator is typically not receiving a penny for his efforts and I would be willing to bet they lose money at the end of the day out of their pocket. Most of their time to answer questions are outside their normal job work hours. Be early and be patient with your questions...
JordanB
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USA
5/19/2014 11:56am
Also had a Nikasil cylinder.
Great fuckin bike.
vet323
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Lead, SD, USA
5/19/2014 1:28pm
MXM wrote:
..
I don't know you, either MXM but it seems like this could be a good spot to have a discussion about race promoting in general and since I have some experience with the subject I just wanted to contribute a little bit of what I know.

Let's try and keep this a small discussion and leave out society as a whole, though ok?Smile

I get what you are saying and I agree that there are sometime confusing rules when it comes to VMX. Most of those rules are there to cater to as many different riders as possible. Making a rule for your KX could alienate other riders, is it better to cater to one guy with a rule that pisses off four other guys? I don't know, I'm just saying that making a call about those rules the day before the race and expecting a satisfactory answer was unrealistic.

As far as early registration goes, what should have been explained to you is why it is offered in the first place. Any good race organizer will try to streamline registration and sign up as much as possible. The number of riders in each class and which classes they are in is information used to determine race order. The earlier you can set up race order, the easier it is to organize your event schedule. Ideally, the race schedule is set up a couple days in advance and in order to do that, a discount is offered to racers that will sign up early enough to help the race director do that. The day before isn't early enough to help schedule anything, so no discount.

You are right of course, that anyone trying to sell a service or event needs to be pleasant and there is no excuse to be otherwise. You as a customer do absolutely deserve courtesy.

As far as being in his shoes, what's stopping you? All you have to do is form a company, pay for advertising, pay insurance and track rental, pay for your track workers and score keepers, pay your sales taxes and then put all of the left over money in your pocket. It's almost too easy, right?
MaxPower
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5/19/2014 1:37pm
I have the problem with AHRMA rules because they pick on a 1983 disc brake on a bike you could buy in 1983 yet will allow a power valved YZ with a V Force reed valve and Black Ops Moto ignition coil ( both make a notable difference) that you couldn't buy in 1983.I know they do because I have seen it. Make fair rules.Not rules that are in place just because some officials say so
MXM
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pickstick, BD
5/19/2014 2:27pm Edited Date/Time 8/13/2015 8:49am
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