has the one day National format

The Rock
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Edited Date/Time 10/9/2013 10:50am
worked against the USA come MXoN time?

GP racers get in five to six more hours of racing time from the 20 minute qualifiers over the course of a year. I know everyone in the industry loves the one day format but as a fan I love seeing more racing. Watching the qualifiers on Saturday at the MXoN I was reminded of this.
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10/4/2013 6:10pm
omfg....
dungey didnt have his majik nikes....
get over it, he has.....
The Rock
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10/4/2013 6:15pm
Simple question not directed towards Dungey.

What's your take on the one day National format?
Choppy
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10/4/2013 6:23pm
No
DonM
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Fantasy
10/4/2013 6:24pm
No

The Shop

10/4/2013 6:37pm
Didn't seem to hurt ET8, the fastest rider at this year's MXdN.
Grizz
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10/4/2013 6:43pm
No
bvm111
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10/4/2013 6:56pm
Let it go.... Seriously!
Trav138
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10/4/2013 7:23pm Edited Date/Time 10/4/2013 7:29pm
Two sides to this: most fans who were around for the two day format miss it and people working in the industry hate it

At least thats what i heard on vital.

Imo timed qualifying sucks but i can understand why its popular. They race way less, only need one fast lap and your in. Less time at the track more time with Bro's and ho's.

I loved the nationals when they were two days. Qualifying races were great for the fans , and i would think some racers liked them. Many guys do better in a race situation as opposed to follow the leader practice.

So i think it may have hurt the ama guys a little. Have to admit that the one day format caters to them. I am not up to speed exactly how the gp's do it. I know they have two day formats, and timed qualifying. Also the US guys are not used to being at the track that long but that is hardly an excuse.
Forza
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10/4/2013 8:26pm
The Rock wrote:
worked against the USA come MXoN time? GP racers get in five to six more hours of racing time from the 20 minute qualifiers over the...
worked against the USA come MXoN time?

GP racers get in five to six more hours of racing time from the 20 minute qualifiers over the course of a year. I know everyone in the industry loves the one day format but as a fan I love seeing more racing. Watching the qualifiers on Saturday at the MXoN I was reminded of this.
If you think we lost the MXDN because of the one day format. Well you are just a idiot.
10/4/2013 8:35pm
Even if they did have a 2 day schedule at the nationals, they still wouldn't be used to the format of the MXDN. Timed practice does suck. Some of the best racing comes from qualifiers, people trying to get that last spot or that better gate. Put the top 10 on the gate and make the rest work for it the old fashioned way. It was also so much fun seeing the qualifiers and seeing the speed and then being freaked out how much the pace is turned up for the motos when you drop in the top 10. It was an amazing thing that today's nationals lack.
88sdad
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10/4/2013 9:43pm
Grendel is reading this and laughing
The Rock
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10/5/2013 3:02am
Even if they did have a 2 day schedule at the nationals, they still wouldn't be used to the format of the MXDN. Timed practice does...
Even if they did have a 2 day schedule at the nationals, they still wouldn't be used to the format of the MXDN. Timed practice does suck. Some of the best racing comes from qualifiers, people trying to get that last spot or that better gate. Put the top 10 on the gate and make the rest work for it the old fashioned way. It was also so much fun seeing the qualifiers and seeing the speed and then being freaked out how much the pace is turned up for the motos when you drop in the top 10. It was an amazing thing that today's nationals lack.
No correlation to the MXoN format in this instance.

I like racing and the more racing the better. Looking forward to the return of the semis in 450SX.

Forza-There are a number of factors that went into our loss. Any sport any musical activity anything the more you practice the better you get. There's no practice like racing.

Related question:

has the one day National program helped or hurt the privateer?
10/5/2013 3:23am
TripleFive wrote:
Didn't seem to hurt ET8, the fastest rider at this year's MXdN.
fastest rider?! I think cairoli might have something to say about that one! (he went 1-1 and nobody challenged him all weekend)

in the race that cairoli and tomac were both in, eli had a (slightly) faster single lap- but toni won the race comfortably (tomac was only 3 seconds down on him at the beginning of the race- cairoli had pulled away to 7 seconds in front by the time tomac crashed. Tony was faster on 10 of the 19 laps- tomac crashed running that pace whilst cairoli won easily! if anyone got within sight of him he would have stepped it up, that's what he does!

by your logic- you could say clement desalle was the fastest rider at the mx des nations- he set the fastest lap of the weekend, the only rider to go into the 1.41's....

the best/fastest rider at the des nations was cairoli- cant really argue with a 1-1!

regarding the one day vs 2 day format? you could have a point, anything that is different in the racing format might make it harder for the riders to adjust - in the same way it might be difficult for gp riders to adjust when they go stateside (musquin/roczen etc)
dedi684
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10/5/2013 5:34am
Even if they did have a 2 day schedule at the nationals, they still wouldn't be used to the format of the MXDN. Timed practice does...
Even if they did have a 2 day schedule at the nationals, they still wouldn't be used to the format of the MXDN. Timed practice does suck. Some of the best racing comes from qualifiers, people trying to get that last spot or that better gate. Put the top 10 on the gate and make the rest work for it the old fashioned way. It was also so much fun seeing the qualifiers and seeing the speed and then being freaked out how much the pace is turned up for the motos when you drop in the top 10. It was an amazing thing that today's nationals lack.
yup
DC
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10/5/2013 6:41am
Rock, appreciate the angle but you are forgetting one major thing (well, 17 actually): we also have supercross, very competitive racing that more that makes up for that missing extra day and 20-minute heats. We also had a lot of burnout from top riders and veterans who felt the grind of SX and MX was too much when it was a two-day format and SX also had Friday practice. Remember SX-only deals? We can't expect guys to race full-time for nine months... Even the NFL is only 16 games in its regular season.
We lost because Belgium raced better as a team and our guys had two big crashes. Blaming the national format is a really big reach...
DC
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DC
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10/5/2013 6:49am
Oh, and we were missing our best rider, the reigning SX/MX champion. That might have helped tilt the results...
DC
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Beast666
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10/5/2013 6:53am
I hate the 1 day schedule. Being from the old school where we practiced and qualified on Saturday then Sunday was a warm up practice then on to the races.

The worst part of the current qualifying practice session is most of the spectators don't know who is turning the fastest times until the session is over. With a qualifying race you get to see the top riders cross the line in the order that they qualify. The other down side of the 1 day format is it put the privateers and local riders at a disadvantage as they tend to go out when the track is in the worst conditions. They end up clearing out the muck and form lines for the factory guys. If that rider has a problem with the bike in the open practice they have to hope that they have it sorted out in the qualifying practice.

It is time to bring back the "On any Sunday" attitude to racing.
SRP33
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10/5/2013 8:52am
The Rock wrote:
worked against the USA come MXoN time? GP racers get in five to six more hours of racing time from the 20 minute qualifiers over the...
worked against the USA come MXoN time?

GP racers get in five to six more hours of racing time from the 20 minute qualifiers over the course of a year. I know everyone in the industry loves the one day format but as a fan I love seeing more racing. Watching the qualifiers on Saturday at the MXoN I was reminded of this.
Rock
I would say YES
maintenance on the tracks between motos hurt sure if there is a dangerous section it needs to be taken care of but let the tracks get rough. I rode Southwick the day after the national last year and it was not touched at all and it was the smoothest I have ever ridden the wick and I have been riding there since the late 80's.

2 day format is better for the fans and at the end of the day SX MX is a traveling entertainment Business relying on the fans to pay so the business makes money.
Timed practice is just stupid we want to see racing not practice. The burn out that DC referred to makes sense however we work ever day at our Jobs and we all get burned out but it is what it is. If you don't like what you do any more get a new Job.

The Teams, riders and fans are there any way for Saturday why not have Qualifiers fans get to hang out more spend more money meet their favorite riders create new favorite riders talk with Mechanics about their own bikes its just real fun for the Fan. problem now for the die hard fan is your in and out usually its a long drive home so you pretty much blow out with 10 minutes left to beat the traffic. I remember hanging in the pits getting jerseys autographs pictures taken and now we post them on the the net for our vintage collection. The best part was camping Saturday hanging in the pits talking smack back at camp site about your favorite rider mine was Hannah some of the other guys I knew it was Howerton and at Southwick sat nights where just funny stuff. Unadilla in the 70 and 80 where just crazy the stories we still talk about to this day. those where some of the Best day of my life So happy to be able to experience that it just seems now that its not the same maybe it is just me not changing but I hold on the the old format because that is what I grew up on.
10/5/2013 8:59am
It's not the one day format. If it was 98 degrees with 40% relative humidity and no wind some of those guys would have faded. As it was the cool temperatures ensured that Dungey and Barcia's fitness never came in to play. The riders in front of them never got tired.
jeffro503
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10/5/2013 9:28am Edited Date/Time 10/5/2013 9:29am
It didn't hurt anything. The one day format helped bring it to a network which was able to broadcast the event.....hence bringing it more main stream to the public. That helps the sport. As far as it hurting our riders in anyway.....I don't think so. In fact I would think it would help it.

I think the USA riders ( or anyone who competes in the USA nationals ) would be benefited from our schedule. Our guys race a moto , then have a 1hr break and have to be right back up on the line. That's basically how the MXoN's race works for one of our guys , with another one ( Lites guys ) have to do a back-to-back moto. The GP guys have a disadvantage with that schedule......as their normal GP schedule is spread out over a two day period with much longer breaks between motos.

If anything Rock......you got it backwards. It helps the AMA riders at the MXoN's.....it's a hindrance for the GP guys.
The Rock
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10/5/2013 11:29am
DC wrote:
Oh, and we were missing our best rider, the reigning SX/MX champion. That might have helped tilt the results...
DC
MX Sports
RV not participating is a subject I won't touch with a ten foot pole and in my OP I did not blame the one day schedule on the MXoN but just asked a question. While I can't put the loss on the Saturday Nationals I do feel in the long run it won't help our racers.

I'm just not a fan of the Saturday only schedule. Down in the trenches it affects the guys behind the parts counters who have to work on Saturday plus I'm a creature of habit. Like SRP33 says the two day format is what we got used to and it is extremely difficult for old guys to accept new things. :-)

To your point that I was forgetting about the SX series I'm sorry but no I hadn't. SX actually helps get our guys ready for American outdoor MX which are for the most part held on hybrid SX/MX layouts but SX definitely doesn't help prepare them for GPs and the MXoN.

Makes for great TV but anyway you slice it US National tracks have migrated significantly away from the roots of traditional MX. Tracks in Europe vary more and have way less SX influence. Last year at the Matterley Basin GP's press conference Zach Osbourne commented returning to the states with the experience of having raced on GP tracks was going to be of benefit. He said in the US the tracks are "pretty much the same but in the GPs there is a wider range of tracks."

Speaking of ZO I like his article in the November Racer X talking about non traditional MX facilities. Good read and thank you for the issue you gave me at the MXoN.

Question: To SRP33's point I rode Southwick the day after the national last year and it was not touched at all and it was the smoothest I have ever ridden the wick and I have been riding there since the late 80's. Is 2014 the time to reduce the Ayers and Sons paving company's time on the tracks between motos?



DC
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10/5/2013 11:56am
Wow, I don't think they are as smooth as you guys are making them out to be. The insult of "Ayers & Son Paving" comes from a guy who hasn't been at a national in years, and is not fair to the track builders like Marc Peters, Mark Barnett, Shane Schaeffer, Tim Ritchie... We do what we can, with input from the riders and teams, to make them safe and fun and competitive. And by the number of fans, TV viewers and entered riders, track prep seems to be working well. The bikes have evolved dramatically and so must the tracks and track prep. John Ayers and all of those track builders know what they are doing.
As for going back to two-day formats, which means off live TV and adding those 12 extra days on the road for every rider and team, that would take us right back to the days of SX-only and probably really hamper our chances of winning the MXoN.
Look, if Eli Tomac doesn't crash, we win. Justin Barcia doesn't crash, we win. But they did, and Belgium won. Why not just give those guys the credit they deserve?
DC
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Highsider
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10/5/2013 12:17pm
Is there GH bias within this thread?
ocscottie
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10/5/2013 12:18pm
The Rock
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10/5/2013 12:32pm Edited Date/Time 10/5/2013 12:33pm
DC wrote:
Wow, I don't think they are as smooth as you guys are making them out to be. The insult of "Ayers & Son Paving" comes from...
Wow, I don't think they are as smooth as you guys are making them out to be. The insult of "Ayers & Son Paving" comes from a guy who hasn't been at a national in years, and is not fair to the track builders like Marc Peters, Mark Barnett, Shane Schaeffer, Tim Ritchie... We do what we can, with input from the riders and teams, to make them safe and fun and competitive. And by the number of fans, TV viewers and entered riders, track prep seems to be working well. The bikes have evolved dramatically and so must the tracks and track prep. John Ayers and all of those track builders know what they are doing.
As for going back to two-day formats, which means off live TV and adding those 12 extra days on the road for every rider and team, that would take us right back to the days of SX-only and probably really hamper our chances of winning the MXoN.
Look, if Eli Tomac doesn't crash, we win. Justin Barcia doesn't crash, we win. But they did, and Belgium won. Why not just give those guys the credit they deserve?
DC
MX Sports
Point noted and well taken. Jody is the king of one liners (he called my only win at REM as "the surprise win of the decade" on their website) and the Ayers one has always been one of my favorites.

It is your show and if you think the tracks are rough enough that's your call......but for me they're prepped too much. IE Southwick this year.

As far as MXoN credit I'm all about giving it up to our team and support personnel. I'm already thinking ahead to Latvia and dwelling on how we can win back the Chamberlain trophy. We can't let it slip from our grasp a third time. In the same breath I have to give it up to Germany last year and Belgium this year......both years they rode very well.

Question: Are we slowly seeing the cycle of change in MX? Is it possible that as it was before the Europeans will regain their dominance? I"m blown away by what KTM is doing..........
DC
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10/5/2013 12:39pm
Cairoli and friends are amazing, no doubt, Rock. Both sides of the ocean have their ups and downs (as do Australia, South Africa, New Zealand) but I still think we have the deepest talent pool, but we lost the one race where we can compare. As I wrote in 450 Words, all hail the Red Knights of Belgium...
We'll be back in Latvia, and hopefully with better results and less crashes.
DC
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KMC440
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10/5/2013 1:00pm
All I know is we got beat by a country smaller than Maryland......

Fucking Maryland.
Choppy
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10/5/2013 1:04pm
Can you explain to me how on a bad day, with two guys crashing we come in second, and somehow that equates to some new cycle of change?


What other country constantly gets top 3 at the MXDN?
Matthes
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10/5/2013 1:10pm
The Rock wrote:
Point noted and well taken. Jody is the king of one liners (he called my only win at REM as "the surprise win of the decade"...
Point noted and well taken. Jody is the king of one liners (he called my only win at REM as "the surprise win of the decade" on their website) and the Ayers one has always been one of my favorites.

It is your show and if you think the tracks are rough enough that's your call......but for me they're prepped too much. IE Southwick this year.

As far as MXoN credit I'm all about giving it up to our team and support personnel. I'm already thinking ahead to Latvia and dwelling on how we can win back the Chamberlain trophy. We can't let it slip from our grasp a third time. In the same breath I have to give it up to Germany last year and Belgium this year......both years they rode very well.

Question: Are we slowly seeing the cycle of change in MX? Is it possible that as it was before the Europeans will regain their dominance? I"m blown away by what KTM is doing..........
If only you had your own message board website to go on and post these loaded questions? As another poster said, getting second at the MXDN when two riders crashed big-time isn't so bad and there's really no reason to go and "ask" if the USA series/tracks/format is the reason why USA lost.
smeg
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10/5/2013 1:15pm
KMC440 wrote:
All I know is we got beat by a country smaller than Maryland......

Fucking Maryland.
you stole my line....................

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