top 10 fastest guys in the world

DJL52
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DJL52 8/6/2013 12:32pm
8/6/2013 12:32pm
TripleDigit wrote:
But you claim Barcia is rated over Tomac because he beat him last year on the 250,like he did Roczen All half arguments as Baggett owned...
But you claim Barcia is rated over Tomac because he beat him last year on the 250,like he did Roczen

All half arguments as Baggett owned them all but when any of these guys came to Europe to ride Roczen won,you see there is often a one sided view as they match up in the US but not enough in Europe

Tracks like Lommel and Leirop which is generally thought to be even a tad tougher,and St Jean d'angely etc ate all part of the other series,say what you like of it but a lot of the US riders could look very average in a year of GP racing,look what Lommel did to both the 450 and 250 champs,

Decotis isn't the best example but on a better ride runs around 25th in the "2nd tier" "B class","easy pickings" GPS then goes home,pulls a bike "out of the shed" he's says and runs top 15

It'll never be enough to some chest thumpers until a genuine top guy comes over,until then its the ultimate superstars like Villopoto and Dungey etc on the same team v the little Euro countries at the MXdN that some will alway regard as gospel
Just for the record...Decotis' average finish in the 3 Nationals he has attended in 2013 is 26th. He had only 1 top 15 moto here and that has at his home track at Southwick.
TripleFive 8/6/2013 12:44pm
8/6/2013 12:44pm
The only way to have this answered accurately is to have everyone race the in premiere motocross series in the world; the AMA Outdoor Nationals.

The GPs are unquestionably second tier, and until the GP riders come across the pond and compete with the fastest riders in the world in the fastest series in the world, they will be viewed as just that: second tier.
mototed 82 8/6/2013 1:07pm
8/6/2013 1:07pm
TripleFive wrote:
The only way to have this answered accurately is to have everyone race the in premiere motocross series in the world; the AMA Outdoor Nationals. The...
The only way to have this answered accurately is to have everyone race the in premiere motocross series in the world; the AMA Outdoor Nationals.

The GPs are unquestionably second tier, and until the GP riders come across the pond and compete with the fastest riders in the world in the fastest series in the world, they will be viewed as just that: second tier.
Seamorbutts
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Seamorbutts 8/6/2013 1:12pm
8/6/2013 1:12pm
TripleFive wrote:
The only way to have this answered accurately is to have everyone race the in premiere motocross series in the world; the AMA Outdoor Nationals. The...
The only way to have this answered accurately is to have everyone race the in premiere motocross series in the world; the AMA Outdoor Nationals.

The GPs are unquestionably second tier, and until the GP riders come across the pond and compete with the fastest riders in the world in the fastest series in the world, they will be viewed as just that: second tier.
Yep....I've been watching the GP's this year, and the one word that comes to mind is lame. There is no rider's, It's depressing to watch.

The Shop

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overthebars39 8/6/2013 1:19pm
8/6/2013 1:19pm
TripleFive wrote:
The only way to have this answered accurately is to have everyone race the in premiere motocross series in the world; the AMA Outdoor Nationals. The...
The only way to have this answered accurately is to have everyone race the in premiere motocross series in the world; the AMA Outdoor Nationals.

The GPs are unquestionably second tier, and until the GP riders come across the pond and compete with the fastest riders in the world in the fastest series in the world, they will be viewed as just that: second tier.
Or the AMA riders come compete in the 2nd tier championship. Why do the GP riders always have to go over there? So they play on the home turf of the AMA riders?
chapmanmx
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chapmanmx 8/6/2013 1:51pm
8/6/2013 1:51pm Edited Date/Time 8/6/2013 1:52pm
MXMattii wrote:
1. Ryan Villopoto 2. Jeffrey Herlings 3. Ryan Dungey 4. James Stewart 5. Tony Cairoli 6. Ken Roczen 7. Eli Tomac 8. Gautier Paulin 9. Clément...
1. Ryan Villopoto
2. Jeffrey Herlings
3. Ryan Dungey
4. James Stewart
5. Tony Cairoli
6. Ken Roczen
7. Eli Tomac
8. Gautier Paulin
9. Clément Desalle
10. Justin Barcia
Roczen ahead of Tomac on the "fastest guys" list? ......................L.O.L.

And if we are talking sand, then I'll give you Herlings being so high, but on any other kind of terrain, absolutely no chance of him being ahead of Dungey.

Barcia behind Paulin and Desalle? No way...
overthebars39 8/6/2013 1:53pm
8/6/2013 1:53pm
A GP rider ahead of an AMA rider? no way!
PClaerhout 8/6/2013 1:54pm
8/6/2013 1:54pm Edited Date/Time 8/6/2013 1:55pm
TripleFive wrote:
The only way to have this answered accurately is to have everyone race the in premiere motocross series in the world; the AMA Outdoor Nationals. The...
The only way to have this answered accurately is to have everyone race the in premiere motocross series in the world; the AMA Outdoor Nationals.

The GPs are unquestionably second tier, and until the GP riders come across the pond and compete with the fastest riders in the world in the fastest series in the world, they will be viewed as just that: second tier.
I agree. It's not Americans opinion that ama mx is the premiere class, it just is right? No disrespect to people or riders from other countries. Not a fan of every single foreign(or US) rider, but as a fan I enjoy when world champs come over here and shake things up a little. Kroc is awesome and brought a lot to this years championships. The only thing I wonder is why didn't AC come over to the USA? He has so many world championships I just assume he would compete for the #1 plate, the only thing that makes me doubt it is that HE must doubt it...why else stay and be big fish small pond so to speak. Not talking shit like he wouldn't compete, but why not? You cant use the "nothing to prove" line ya know? I'd love for Herlings to come over here. Why don't they?
HOPSTOOPID
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HOPSTOOPID 8/6/2013 1:56pm
8/6/2013 1:56pm
TripleFive wrote:
The only way to have this answered accurately is to have everyone race the in premiere motocross series in the world; the AMA Outdoor Nationals. The...
The only way to have this answered accurately is to have everyone race the in premiere motocross series in the world; the AMA Outdoor Nationals.

The GPs are unquestionably second tier, and until the GP riders come across the pond and compete with the fastest riders in the world in the fastest series in the world, they will be viewed as just that: second tier.
overthebars39 wrote:
Or the AMA riders come compete in the 2nd tier championship. Why do the GP riders always have to go over there? So they play on...
Or the AMA riders come compete in the 2nd tier championship. Why do the GP riders always have to go over there? So they play on the home turf of the AMA riders?
You answered your own question - its 2nd tier. Plus there is more exposure in the US, more money, more sponsors, more support, more places to ride/race/train/test etc, and the promoters actually CARE about the racers, not the amount of money the racers add to their own pockets. Oh yeah, then theres this:

overthebars39 8/6/2013 2:10pm
8/6/2013 2:10pm Edited Date/Time 8/6/2013 2:13pm
it's still 2nd tier when the US riders show up? Guess that dimishes that '2nd tier' non-argument right there.
When the US riders race GP's the exposure and sponsors wil follow, afterall the US riders are in it.
Yeah the US promoters don't give a damn about the money their event brings them...right... And to add, the promoters ain't the issue, it's YS and the FIM that only care about their own pockets.

Then there's 'THE' list that shows u got your asses kicked by the Germans afterall. Grinning
louis.bernard.564 8/6/2013 2:16pm
8/6/2013 2:16pm
MXMattii wrote:
1. Ryan Villopoto 2. Jeffrey Herlings 3. Ryan Dungey 4. James Stewart 5. Tony Cairoli 6. Ken Roczen 7. Eli Tomac 8. Gautier Paulin 9. Clément...
1. Ryan Villopoto
2. Jeffrey Herlings
3. Ryan Dungey
4. James Stewart
5. Tony Cairoli
6. Ken Roczen
7. Eli Tomac
8. Gautier Paulin
9. Clément Desalle
10. Justin Barcia
chapmanmx wrote:
Roczen ahead of Tomac on the "fastest guys" list? ......................L.O.L. And if we are talking sand, then I'll give you Herlings being so high, but on...
Roczen ahead of Tomac on the "fastest guys" list? ......................L.O.L.

And if we are talking sand, then I'll give you Herlings being so high, but on any other kind of terrain, absolutely no chance of him being ahead of Dungey.

Barcia behind Paulin and Desalle? No way...
I do not know what you are smoking but it looks nasty Smile

I have just deleted my 10 lines reply because many here are just having fun fishing.
PClaerhout 8/6/2013 2:19pm
8/6/2013 2:19pm
Has there ever been a top 5 ama rider who, while healthy, chose to take his talents overseas the following year during his peak? How about a defending champ? If not, why?
PressPassP
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PressPassP 8/6/2013 2:20pm
8/6/2013 2:20pm
2strokerider wrote:
ok then- take lommel out of th equation (your guys are obviously ALOT slower in the sand than herlings/ cairoli) go back to the last time...
ok then- take lommel out of th equation (your guys are obviously ALOT slower in the sand than herlings/ cairoli)

go back to the last time they raced each other (before lommel) - 2011 mx des nations at st jean d'angely (a hilly hardpack circuit- in france so not herlings 'back yard')

1 21 Paulin, Gautier FRA MCM Yamaha 34:14.392 18 0:00.000 0:00.000 1:50.082 18 49.054
2 112 Herlings, Jeffrey NED KNMV KTM 34:16.816 18 0:02.424 0:02.424 1:49.937 18 49.119
3 3 Villopoto, Ryan USA AMA Kawasaki 34:17.205 18 0:02.813 0:00.389 1:49.734 18 49.21
4 8 Roczen, Ken GER DMSB KTM 34:19.489 18 0:05.097 0:02.284 1:50.056 14 49.066
5 6 Strijbos, Kevin BEL FMB Suzuki 34:33.673 18 0:19.281 0:14.184 1:51.404 7 48.472
6 118 Swanepoel, Gareth RSA AMA Yamaha 34:59.795 18 0:45.403 0:26.122 1:51.845 18 48.281
7 18 Metcalfe, Brett AUS AMA Suzuki 35:00.306 18 0:45.914 0:00.511 1:51.687 18 48.349
8 15 Guarneri, Davide ITA FMI Kawasaki 35:11.138 18 0:56.746 0:10.832 1:52.831 4 47.859
9 39 Campano, Carlos ESP RFME Yamaha 35:12.265 18 0:57.873 0:01.127 1:53.503 9 47.576
10 33 Tonus, Arnaud SUI FMS Yamaha 35:21.675 18 1:07.283 0:09.410 1:53.237 18 47.688
11 20 Musquin, Marvin FRA AMA KTM 35:23.192 18 1:08.800 0:01.517 1:51.998 9 48.215
12 5 Roelants, Joel BEL FMB KTM 35:24.618 18 1:10.226 0:01.426 1:54.056 12 47.345
13 9 Schiffer, Marcus GER DMSB Suzuki 35:44.003 18 1:29.611 0:19.385 1:55.412 18 46.789
14 12 Anderson, Brad GBR ACU Honda 35:48.875 18 1:34.483 0:04.872 1:53.882 17 47.418
15 27 Correia, Luis POR FMP Yamaha 35:50.963 18 1:36.571 0:02.088 1:55.240 10 46.859
16 127 Michek, Martin CZE ACCR KTM 34:19.136 17 1 lap 1 lap 1:55.852 6 46.611
17 2 Baggett, Blake USA AMA Kawasaki 34:32.826 17 1 lap 0:13.690 1:53.685 3 47.5


herlings only 16 at the time, riding a hilly hardpack track (hes only fast in the sand according to some people)

his results/ times look pretty good to me compared to the top americans/ american based riders (ive highlighted the top american / american based riders at the time so you can compare results/ laptimes)
pilotdude wrote:
Villopoto started in double-digit position due to giving his gate pick to Baggett. He then moved through the field and was all over the back of...
Villopoto started in double-digit position due to giving his gate pick to Baggett. He then moved through the field and was all over the back of Herlings who held him off for about 1-2 laps by a miracle, on an unfamiliar track in a foreign country on a different continent..

I love how it's always, "And Herlings was only 16,17,18,etc." All motocross riders start young and finish young, with the notable exception of John Dowd and a few others.

When you guys try to say Herlings "beat" Villopoto without telling the full story of how that race went down, it makes your argument look very weak. I've noticed that happens a lot when discussing that particular moto.

Here are the results of Moto 3 that day, by the way:

MX1 + Open Class Motocross des Nations Results:
1. Ryan Villopoto, USA (Kawasaki)
2. Ryan Dungey, USA (Suzuki)
3. Tyla Rattray, RSA (Kawasaki)
4. Tommy Searle, GBR (Kawasaki)
5. Davide Guarneri, ITA (Kawasaki)
6. Evgeny Bobryshev, RUS (Honda)
7. Chad Reed, AUS (Honda)
8. Gautier Paulin, FRA (Yamaha)
9. Jeffrey Herlings, NED (KTM)
10. Brett Metcalfe, AUS (Suzuki)
11. Kevin Strijbos, BEL (Suzuki)
12. Tanel Leok, EST (TM)
13. Arnaud Tonus, SUI (Yamaha)
14. Jonathan Barragan, ESP (Kawasaki)
15. Brad Anderson, GBR (Honda)
Herlings racing that day would be almost the EXACT equivalent of Adam Cinciarulo doing it this year-think about it??

Herlings moved up and rode the 350,back to back Motos too,a week earlier he was still 16,still not a bad effort against the vastly experienced Villopoto,the SX champ,Outdoor champ,2 time MXdN winner in his 3rd MXdN etc

So still a very good showing
mototed 82 8/6/2013 2:21pm
8/6/2013 2:21pm
PClaerhout wrote:
Has there ever been a top 5 ama rider who, while healthy, chose to take his talents overseas the following year during his peak? How about...
Has there ever been a top 5 ama rider who, while healthy, chose to take his talents overseas the following year during his peak? How about a defending champ? If not, why?
why ? why would they feel the need to take a step backwards when at the top ,
PClaerhout 8/6/2013 2:25pm
8/6/2013 2:25pm Edited Date/Time 8/6/2013 2:27pm
PClaerhout wrote:
Has there ever been a top 5 ama rider who, while healthy, chose to take his talents overseas the following year during his peak? How about...
Has there ever been a top 5 ama rider who, while healthy, chose to take his talents overseas the following year during his peak? How about a defending champ? If not, why?
mototed 82 wrote:
why ? why would they feel the need to take a step backwards when at the top ,
Kind of what I thought myself. There seems to be a debate about which is the premier series...

And Ive always wondered why AC didn't come to the USA, and would just like to hear whatever reason his supporters use or whatnot seeing how hes ranking so high on these lists...
Howard_Racing 8/6/2013 2:31pm
8/6/2013 2:31pm
Ramrod wrote:
Touchy subject. You must mean for motocross correct? Otherwise the list would be very different. For gp riders, Cairoli and Herlings are for sure as are...
Touchy subject. You must mean for motocross correct? Otherwise the list would be very different.

For gp riders, Cairoli and Herlings are for sure as are RV and Dungey in US. Man, that would be a sweet 4 man race to watch!!
I'm sorry but watching RV and RD leave 2 people by 45 seconds would be just as boring as watching them leave 38 people by 45 seconds =[
HOPSTOOPID
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HOPSTOOPID 8/6/2013 2:32pm
8/6/2013 2:32pm
overthebars39 wrote:
it's still 2nd tier when the US riders show up? Guess that dimishes that '2nd tier' non-argument right there. When the US riders race GP's the...
it's still 2nd tier when the US riders show up? Guess that dimishes that '2nd tier' non-argument right there.
When the US riders race GP's the exposure and sponsors wil follow, afterall the US riders are in it.
Yeah the US promoters don't give a damn about the money their event brings them...right... And to add, the promoters ain't the issue, it's YS and the FIM that only care about their own pockets.

Then there's 'THE' list that shows u got your asses kicked by the Germans afterall. Grinning
Germany - 1

USA - 22 (ONLY 3 of which were here in the USA, has any other country ever won here? NO )

We got our asses kicked alright. Glad to see you know how to count.

And to address your points - It IS second tier because the US riders WONT show up - thats the whole point. If it were not second tier, they would already be there. Also why should the americans work to bring the support/sponsors etc to the GPs? I thought you guys had the superior series right?

Furthermore, its obvious after this last weekend that America is where its at. Even the youth (enzo lopes etc) come here to compete at Lorettas because we either breed champions, or we train/develop them to stay here and compete with the BEST.
PressPassP
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PressPassP 8/6/2013 3:02pm
8/6/2013 3:02pm
TripleFive wrote:
The only way to have this answered accurately is to have everyone race the in premiere motocross series in the world; the AMA Outdoor Nationals. The...
The only way to have this answered accurately is to have everyone race the in premiere motocross series in the world; the AMA Outdoor Nationals.

The GPs are unquestionably second tier, and until the GP riders come across the pond and compete with the fastest riders in the world in the fastest series in the world, they will be viewed as just that: second tier.
overthebars39 wrote:
Or the AMA riders come compete in the 2nd tier championship. Why do the GP riders always have to go over there? So they play on...
Or the AMA riders come compete in the 2nd tier championship. Why do the GP riders always have to go over there? So they play on the home turf of the AMA riders?
HOPSTOOPID wrote:
You answered your own question - its 2nd tier. Plus there is more exposure in the US, more money, more sponsors, more support, more places to...
You answered your own question - its 2nd tier. Plus there is more exposure in the US, more money, more sponsors, more support, more places to ride/race/train/test etc, and the promoters actually CARE about the racers, not the amount of money the racers add to their own pockets. Oh yeah, then theres this:

I don't think it can be called the 2nd tier when there's never been a top American race the GPs to gauge things,some top 250 GP riders go to the US but they win there too,or generally do well and that's in a series over a season out of what they're used too,new country,tracks,people around them etc against riders on their home circuit

By having everyone go and do the AMA series you stack the odds in favour of the US guys,only a troll could argue thatLaughing

Likewise if the US guys raced the GP series they'd have to line up at Lommel,Leirop etc and we saw that if some of these champs finished well down on many GP guys,again how can you call it 2nd tier?

At the end of the day the top 10 riders in the world in most of the lists here are roughly an even split,the series aren't better than each other,just different

MXdN doesn't compare series Vs series,it proves which country can put the strongest 3 riders together

Pit Row

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FreshTopEnd
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FreshTopEnd 8/6/2013 3:21pm
8/6/2013 3:21pm
henry zweers wrote:
COAL-TRAIN, Can u give me the standings in the AMA 250, belief there are 2 second rate champs in the top 3
But the point is that they left there and are here. That is a one way direction of the best talent either series has, and it diminishes the GPs. That said, calling the GPs second rate is asinine and an insult to the top talent in the GPs.
PressPassP
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PressPassP 8/6/2013 3:24pm
8/6/2013 3:24pm Edited Date/Time 8/6/2013 3:29pm
PClaerhout wrote:
Has there ever been a top 5 ama rider who, while healthy, chose to take his talents overseas the following year during his peak? How about...
Has there ever been a top 5 ama rider who, while healthy, chose to take his talents overseas the following year during his peak? How about a defending champ? If not, why?
mototed 82 wrote:
why ? why would they feel the need to take a step backwards when at the top ,
They're not actually at the top,they'd be 250 guys in relation,recently,Canard,Wilson,Baggett and maybe Tomac this year as It's only 250 guys that have left the GPs to go AMA

Probably $$$ and a good contract and it's got to be easier for the Lites/250 guys to carry on at home in their own series surely,rather than up and move like some Euros do

At the end of the day if you're earning the $$$ and have a great contract ahead of you why leave? Can't blame Herlings at the end of the day I guess..
overthebars39 8/6/2013 3:30pm
8/6/2013 3:30pm
HOPSTOOPID wrote:
Germany - 1 USA - 22 (ONLY 3 of which were here in the USA, has any other country ever won here? NO ) We got...
Germany - 1

USA - 22 (ONLY 3 of which were here in the USA, has any other country ever won here? NO )

We got our asses kicked alright. Glad to see you know how to count.

And to address your points - It IS second tier because the US riders WONT show up - thats the whole point. If it were not second tier, they would already be there. Also why should the americans work to bring the support/sponsors etc to the GPs? I thought you guys had the superior series right?

Furthermore, its obvious after this last weekend that America is where its at. Even the youth (enzo lopes etc) come here to compete at Lorettas because we either breed champions, or we train/develop them to stay here and compete with the BEST.
Yep you got your asses kicked in Lommel (so did we), i think i (and the governing bodies) counted the points correctly. Unless you wan't to try to explain how my math failed. You got beat by 2nd tier riders + a German national level rider. Time to put that dickhead behaviour away and start realize there are fast guys all over the world, not only in 'Merica.

Nah they would still be racing the US even if the US was '2nd tier'. Because in 'Merica everything is better anyway.

Where did i say we had the superior series?? Show me where i have claimed that. Smile I did not say a rats ass about the GP's being superior. I'm calling neither of the series superior because they are to different. I was commenting on the fact that the US 'fans' are always making claims about 'the GP riders should go to the US to prove themself' Hence my question why the AMA riders wouldn't go to the GP to prove the US superiority. If it's 2nd tier it should be a cakewalk anyway. Oh and we have US riders showing up lately, guess our series is not 2nd tier anymore then? Laughing

But if you're only a tad realistic you know that it's not as easy to jump on a plane and go ride in a competition without track experience, different culture, unknown competition and a brand new team. Took Rockzen out of his comfort zone alright, but did you follow it all? A 2nd tier series champion did kick US ass in SX. Whistling Some crazy 2nd tier riders huh?

Yeah, because there are allot of choices for pro amateur competition, right? And why go to Europe when you're home residence is in Brazil. I would pick the US aswell. Altough by your logic the GP's should be a better future for youngsters since it's easyer to score a contract in a 2nd tier series. Afterall it's easyer to get up on top with slower guys, or does my logic fail there?

The GP series is fucked alright, no doubt about that. But no need to disrespect the riders. If you think they are 2nd tier then you need to put that bong down...

.
TripleFive 8/6/2013 3:35pm
8/6/2013 3:35pm
FreshTopEnd wrote:
But the point is that they left there and are here. That is a one way direction of the best talent either series has, and it...
But the point is that they left there and are here. That is a one way direction of the best talent either series has, and it diminishes the GPs. That said, calling the GPs second rate is asinine and an insult to the top talent in the GPs.
There is either one premier series OR they are both equal.

As you said, "[there] is a one way direction of the best talent either series has, and it diminishes the GPs."
Flatliner
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Flatliner 8/6/2013 3:39pm
8/6/2013 3:39pm
Any list that has herlings ahead of dungey is garbage. Sorry but it is.

Rv and rd are the two fastest on the planet right now in 95 of riding conditions. And I do count sx in this equation, to not isn't right.
PClaerhout 8/6/2013 3:48pm
8/6/2013 3:48pm
PClaerhout wrote:
Has there ever been a top 5 ama rider who, while healthy, chose to take his talents overseas the following year during his peak? How about...
Has there ever been a top 5 ama rider who, while healthy, chose to take his talents overseas the following year during his peak? How about a defending champ? If not, why?
mototed 82 wrote:
why ? why would they feel the need to take a step backwards when at the top ,
PressPassP wrote:
They're not actually at the top,they'd be 250 guys in relation,recently,Canard,Wilson,Baggett and maybe Tomac this year as It's only 250 guys that have left the GPs...
They're not actually at the top,they'd be 250 guys in relation,recently,Canard,Wilson,Baggett and maybe Tomac this year as It's only 250 guys that have left the GPs to go AMA

Probably $$$ and a good contract and it's got to be easier for the Lites/250 guys to carry on at home in their own series surely,rather than up and move like some Euros do

At the end of the day if you're earning the $$$ and have a great contract ahead of you why leave? Can't blame Herlings at the end of the day I guess..
I agree, travel all over and race? Yes please! I just want to watch him over here, if that means he wins ok cool.
steed 2.0
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steed 2.0 8/6/2013 3:50pm
8/6/2013 3:50pm
HOPSTOOPID wrote:
You answered your own question - its 2nd tier. Plus there is more exposure in the US, more money, more sponsors, more support, more places to...
You answered your own question - its 2nd tier. Plus there is more exposure in the US, more money, more sponsors, more support, more places to ride/race/train/test etc, and the promoters actually CARE about the racers, not the amount of money the racers add to their own pockets. Oh yeah, then theres this:

"more places to ride/race/train/test etc" really?

California Total Amount of Tracks: 65 http://www.mxtracks.us/mx/phpCalifornia
Holland Total Amount of Tracks: 83 http://www.mxbrothers.com/mx-tracks/netherlands

California's land area is 12 times larger than Holland
FIREfish148
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FIREfish148 8/6/2013 4:19pm
8/6/2013 4:19pm
Baggets gotta be on the list
frita
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frita 8/6/2013 4:37pm
8/6/2013 4:37pm
PClaerhout wrote:
Has there ever been a top 5 ama rider who, while healthy, chose to take his talents overseas the following year during his peak? How about...
Has there ever been a top 5 ama rider who, while healthy, chose to take his talents overseas the following year during his peak? How about a defending champ? If not, why?
Because Merica... It's just your country's mentality.

FreshTopEnd
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Sacramento, CA US
FreshTopEnd 8/6/2013 4:41pm
8/6/2013 4:41pm Edited Date/Time 8/6/2013 6:02pm
FreshTopEnd wrote:
But the point is that they left there and are here. That is a one way direction of the best talent either series has, and it...
But the point is that they left there and are here. That is a one way direction of the best talent either series has, and it diminishes the GPs. That said, calling the GPs second rate is asinine and an insult to the top talent in the GPs.
TripleFive wrote:
There is either one premier series OR they are both equal. As you said, "[there] is a one way direction of the best talent either series...
There is either one premier series OR they are both equal.

As you said, "[there] is a one way direction of the best talent either series has, and it diminishes the GPs."
"Second rate" is a pejorative word used for more than the purpose of comparing relative qualities; it's used to disrespect and discredit, and that is asinine in this instance given the talent of the best riders in the GPs. The fact is that the total world of MX is one of limited opportunities throughout both series, and I think there are more opportunities here at each tier, and that is what makes a difference. But there are top drawing opportunities for the best GP riders, and the fact that they choose those opportunities doesn't make those guys the leftovers. Herlings and Cairoli would be threats to win any national they entered, And top five in the GPS, at least in the 450s, would be a threat to disrupt the usual podium here.

Do I think the US series ends up being the better of the two because we get many of their best riders? Yup (and i can see how a reasonable fan of the GP series would disagree). But to turn that around with the rhetorical flourish of saying the GP series is "second rate" is bullshit. And it completely begs the issue that what makes the US series better in whatever respectful way it's put is that the GPs produce the exceptional non American riders that complement the exceptional American talent that feed into the series naturally.
FreshTopEnd
Profile picture for user FreshTopEnd
Posts
12989
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Sacramento, CA US
FreshTopEnd 8/6/2013 4:44pm
8/6/2013 4:44pm
PClaerhout wrote:
Has there ever been a top 5 ama rider who, while healthy, chose to take his talents overseas the following year during his peak? How about...
Has there ever been a top 5 ama rider who, while healthy, chose to take his talents overseas the following year during his peak? How about a defending champ? If not, why?
frita wrote:
Because Merica... It's just your country's mentality. [img]https://www.theventureonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/american-world-map.jpg[/img]
Because Merica... It's just your country's mentality.

No, it's because it's no longer worth it to leave here and go there if you are at the top of your game. Riders of every nation go where they get the best deal. That's not a 'Merican mindset.
TripleDigit 8/6/2013 4:58pm
8/6/2013 4:58pm
Huckster wrote:
1/2 argument? Do you have a reading comprehension problem by chance? I have Baggett on my list and please re-read what I wrote about him. MXoN...
1/2 argument? Do you have a reading comprehension problem by chance? I have Baggett on my list and please re-read what I wrote about him. MXoN results have some value but not as much as a full season of head to head or a race in a points paying series. Way to many variables in the MxoN to use it in the same way to judge as it is a TEAM race and TEAM results matter more than an individuals so strategy plays a role. Lommel didnt go well for RD or BB but Budds, Italy and France didn't go well for AC either so that is why MXoN is not the end all. Fact remains that Justin beat Tomac and Roczen over the 12 rounds of the AMA motocross series last year. He has proven he can run up front with the Ryans this year as well and beat everyone except AC and JH at their home track, which he never raced on before that weekend. I think he deserves to be top 5 at the very least. As I said, I am a HOMER when it comes to him but his results speak for themselves, even though this is an opinion poll.....
My comprehension is fine,what I don't understand are some of the comparisons and your reasoning,Barcia is better than Tomac on all accounts and rated above him ut shouldn't be in the MXdN team?? He won't be a rookie either

The comparisons are over a season is bias as its on American turf,in effect that not entirely fair against Roczen

The only time any have met in Europe is at the MXdN,but you dismiss reults there somewhat,I can't see how anyone could be riding "for the team" in at least the last 2 MXdN

Barcia didn't beat everyone except AC and JH at Lommel in his favour he had
a great 3rd in a Moto but fail to mention that he didn't beat Roczen there,

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