We need a $4k 125!

RM127
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RM127
Edited Date/Time 7/1/2013 7:09pm
The sport needs a cheap new full size mx bike!

American made with a Yamaha motor.

-125 cc two stroke
-4 speed transmission
-pre 06 suspension
-steel frame
-steel handle bars
-steel subframe
-steel rear sprocket
-steel foot pegs
-steel hardware
-cast levers
-cheap tires
-cheap plastics
-basic nissin brakes
-DID rims

32hp at 215 pounds is plenty to get into and enjoy this sport!
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Mxdnusa
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Mxdnusa 6/29/2013 2:40pm
6/29/2013 2:40pm
It's a 2011 yz 125 !
yz414
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yz414 6/29/2013 2:47pm
6/29/2013 2:47pm
RM127 wrote:
The sport needs a cheap new full size mx bike! American made with a Yamaha motor. -125 cc two stroke -4 speed transmission -pre 06 suspension...
The sport needs a cheap new full size mx bike!

American made with a Yamaha motor.

-125 cc two stroke
-4 speed transmission
-pre 06 suspension
-steel frame
-steel handle bars
-steel subframe
-steel rear sprocket
-steel foot pegs
-steel hardware
-cast levers
-cheap tires
-cheap plastics
-basic nissin brakes
-DID rims

32hp at 215 pounds is plenty to get into and enjoy this sport!
a used YZ125 is everything you just described.
RM127
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RM127 6/29/2013 2:50pm
6/29/2013 2:50pm Edited Date/Time 6/29/2013 2:56pm
Its the same thing with cars, people like new. Why buy a new toyota when you can buy a used porsche for the same price?

People new to the sport want a brand new and reliable bike to have fun on.
RM127
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RM127 6/29/2013 2:56pm
6/29/2013 2:56pm Edited Date/Time 6/29/2013 2:56pm
Why do people buy a yamaha R6 when they can buy a used Ducati?

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Mxdnusa
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Mxdnusa 6/29/2013 3:16pm
6/29/2013 3:16pm
RM127 wrote:
Its the same thing with cars, people like new. Why buy a new toyota when you can buy a used porsche for the same price? People...
Its the same thing with cars, people like new. Why buy a new toyota when you can buy a used porsche for the same price?

People new to the sport want a brand new and reliable bike to have fun on.
You are right. That is how people think.

I am the opposite. One reason is I hate a car note, second reason I rather have a slightly used 8cylinder with leather than a brand new econo-box type car.
Grizz
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Grizz 6/29/2013 3:18pm
6/29/2013 3:18pm
Sounds like it would handle amazingly.
RedRacer
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RedRacer 6/29/2013 3:31pm
6/29/2013 3:31pm
Such a bike would probably need a " designed in the US, made in China" sticker on it. I think designing the bike would be easy compared to getting the buying public to trust a new brand, and I can't see the big 5 doing this. Best bet is an up an coming brand like Mahindra.
CamP
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CamP 6/29/2013 3:47pm
6/29/2013 3:47pm
I think an air cooled 175 in a 90's era chassis could be produced and sold in the $4500 range, and could still be a well performing machine for entry level mx.
racerx217
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racerx217 6/29/2013 3:52pm
6/29/2013 3:52pm
you can buy a new husky 125 for about that with the rebates they are running
ford832
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ford832 6/29/2013 4:40pm
6/29/2013 4:40pm
RM127 wrote:
Why do people buy a yamaha R6 when they can buy a used Ducati?
I'll bite-because they want a better bike?Laughing
Sheriff245 6/29/2013 4:58pm
6/29/2013 4:58pm
Nobody would buy a bike they deem inferior no matter the price. Or they'll buy it and put 3 grand worth of upgrades to make it competitive with the real thing.
newmann
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newmann 6/29/2013 5:12pm
6/29/2013 5:12pm
Sheriff245 wrote:
Nobody would buy a bike they deem inferior no matter the price. Or they'll buy it and put 3 grand worth of upgrades to make it...
Nobody would buy a bike they deem inferior no matter the price. Or they'll buy it and put 3 grand worth of upgrades to make it competitive with the real thing.
I would bet plenty of people would buy an "entry level" full size motocross bike. KTM could simply use a non linkage chassis from an 08 144SX with lesser quality suspension, brakes, hubs, and misc. components. Drop a non powervalved air cooled 125-200cc top end on it and a painted pipe. No need for a juice clutch either. $3999.00 all day long. Make the engine to where different displacement top ends would be a simple swap. I've started a few threads about this exact subject myself. The idea that no one would buy anything less than a $9000.00 450cc fuel injected dirt bike is pretty dorked up.
Lone Wolf
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Lone Wolf 6/29/2013 6:43pm
6/29/2013 6:43pm
Great idea! They could call it the Mahindra POS125.
newmann
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newmann 6/29/2013 6:57pm
6/29/2013 6:57pm
Lone Wolf wrote:
Great idea! They could call it the Mahindra POS125.
Similar to what plenty of people called the recent YZ450F, only it was more than twice the price?
newmann
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newmann 6/29/2013 7:00pm
6/29/2013 7:00pm
Of course Wolfy, you realize I wasn't one of those. I just merrily referred to it as a 1/8 ton pig.
burn1986
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burn1986 6/29/2013 7:16pm
6/29/2013 7:16pm Edited Date/Time 6/29/2013 7:17pm
Sheriff245 wrote:
Nobody would buy a bike they deem inferior no matter the price. Or they'll buy it and put 3 grand worth of upgrades to make it...
Nobody would buy a bike they deem inferior no matter the price. Or they'll buy it and put 3 grand worth of upgrades to make it competitive with the real thing.
newmann wrote:
I would bet plenty of people would buy an "entry level" full size motocross bike. KTM could simply use a non linkage chassis from an 08...
I would bet plenty of people would buy an "entry level" full size motocross bike. KTM could simply use a non linkage chassis from an 08 144SX with lesser quality suspension, brakes, hubs, and misc. components. Drop a non powervalved air cooled 125-200cc top end on it and a painted pipe. No need for a juice clutch either. $3999.00 all day long. Make the engine to where different displacement top ends would be a simple swap. I've started a few threads about this exact subject myself. The idea that no one would buy anything less than a $9000.00 450cc fuel injected dirt bike is pretty dorked up.
How do we get it going? Isn't it funny that this would be a perfect bike that the masses would buy (as long as it had a good front fender, lol) and yet no factory would ever build it. How can there be such a disconnect between the factory and the consumer?!
TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 6/29/2013 7:32pm
6/29/2013 7:32pm
CamP wrote:
I think an air cooled 175 in a 90's era chassis could be produced and sold in the $4500 range, and could still be a well...
I think an air cooled 175 in a 90's era chassis could be produced and sold in the $4500 range, and could still be a well performing machine for entry level mx.
Honda & Kawi could do it out of their Thai plants. They don't seem to see the market viability or else they'd make it.
CamP
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CamP 6/29/2013 7:55pm
6/29/2013 7:55pm
CamP wrote:
I think an air cooled 175 in a 90's era chassis could be produced and sold in the $4500 range, and could still be a well...
I think an air cooled 175 in a 90's era chassis could be produced and sold in the $4500 range, and could still be a well performing machine for entry level mx.
TeamGreen wrote:
Honda & Kawi could do it out of their Thai plants. They don't seem to see the market viability or else they'd make it.
The Japanese are great manufacturers, but they aren't innovators. A new, low cost, entry level mx bike takes some forward thinking. I think it's exactly what this sport needs for a shot in the arm.

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CamP
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CamP 6/29/2013 8:00pm
6/29/2013 8:00pm Edited Date/Time 6/29/2013 8:06pm
Sheriff245 wrote:
Nobody would buy a bike they deem inferior no matter the price. Or they'll buy it and put 3 grand worth of upgrades to make it...
Nobody would buy a bike they deem inferior no matter the price. Or they'll buy it and put 3 grand worth of upgrades to make it competitive with the real thing.
Just because it's something you aren't interested in, doesn't mean that it wouldn't sell. If you saw the MIC data for new dirt units sold over the last few years, you would know that virtually "nobody" is buying the $9000 dirt bikes being offered today. Nothing from nothing equals nothing.
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GuyB 6/29/2013 8:26pm
6/29/2013 8:26pm Edited Date/Time 6/29/2013 8:27pm
burn1986 wrote:
How do we get it going? Isn't it funny that this would be a perfect bike that the masses would buy (as long as it had...
How do we get it going? Isn't it funny that this would be a perfect bike that the masses would buy (as long as it had a good front fender, lol) and yet no factory would ever build it. How can there be such a disconnect between the factory and the consumer?!
How? It's called reality. You have your fantasy product, and they have the reality of engineering it, manufacturing it, and getting it market. Then sales in sufficient numbers to make it worthwhile.

My guess is, if there was a business model that supported it, it would have happened already.

Personally, my fantasy product is gas that's 99 cents a gallon.
Derpin' DJ
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Derpin' DJ 6/29/2013 8:34pm
6/29/2013 8:34pm
CamP wrote:
Just because it's something you aren't interested in, doesn't mean that it wouldn't sell. If you saw the MIC data for new dirt units sold over...
Just because it's something you aren't interested in, doesn't mean that it wouldn't sell. If you saw the MIC data for new dirt units sold over the last few years, you would know that virtually "nobody" is buying the $9000 dirt bikes being offered today. Nothing from nothing equals nothing.
xnationalwrench 6/29/2013 8:34pm
6/29/2013 8:34pm Edited Date/Time 6/29/2013 8:44pm
RM127 wrote:
The sport needs a cheap new full size mx bike! American made with a Yamaha motor. -125 cc two stroke -4 speed transmission -pre 06 suspension...
The sport needs a cheap new full size mx bike!

American made with a Yamaha motor.

-125 cc two stroke
-4 speed transmission
-pre 06 suspension
-steel frame
-steel handle bars
-steel subframe
-steel rear sprocket
-steel foot pegs
-steel hardware
-cast levers
-cheap tires
-cheap plastics
-basic nissin brakes
-DID rims

32hp at 215 pounds is plenty to get into and enjoy this sport!
Its not American made but several bikes fit the bill, of course they are made in China.
newmann
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newmann 6/29/2013 8:36pm
6/29/2013 8:36pm
Reality is that it would bring new buyers back to the sport. Once they get going , they'll be back for more and that would be the next machine up the food chain. I could see KTM pulling it off, anyone else I just don't think gives a shit.
GuyB
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GuyB 6/29/2013 8:39pm
6/29/2013 8:39pm
When have you ever seen an inexpensive KTM?
newmann
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newmann 6/29/2013 8:49pm
6/29/2013 8:49pm
Doesn't mean it can't be done.
Jack mehoff
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Jack mehoff 6/29/2013 9:03pm
6/29/2013 9:03pm
newmann wrote:
Doesn't mean it can't be done.
The crazy part is the euros have the chance to turn the tide right now ,husky, ktm, tm , and maybe gas gas should start a two stroke fall series put the prize money up give some bikes to the top privateers with a real nice contingency package it was not two long ago that we had a healty 4 stoke series back east , it's the old adage if you build it they will come
CamP
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CamP 6/29/2013 9:06pm
6/29/2013 9:06pm Edited Date/Time 6/29/2013 9:14pm
GuyB wrote:
How? It's called reality. You have your fantasy product, and they have the reality of engineering it, manufacturing it, and getting it market. Then sales in...
How? It's called reality. You have your fantasy product, and they have the reality of engineering it, manufacturing it, and getting it market. Then sales in sufficient numbers to make it worthwhile.

My guess is, if there was a business model that supported it, it would have happened already.

Personally, my fantasy product is gas that's 99 cents a gallon.
The reality is that nobody has attempted to make such a product, so there is no business model developed. It's simply outside the box thinking at this point.

If Kawasaki built an air cooled 175cc 2-stroke race bike on a 90's era 125 chassis, and retailed them for $4,500, I believe they would sell enough of them for tracks to create classes specifically around them, and there would be a sea of green every time they were on the gate.

For it to become anything more than a pipe dream, some individual is going to have to build a prototype of such a bike on their own, and present it to the world as something with real potential by entering it in real competition and performing well. It wouldn't be that difficult to accomplish.
GuyB
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GuyB 6/29/2013 9:26pm
6/29/2013 9:26pm
CamP wrote:
The reality is that nobody has attempted to make such a product, so there is no business model developed. It's simply outside the box thinking at...
The reality is that nobody has attempted to make such a product, so there is no business model developed. It's simply outside the box thinking at this point.

If Kawasaki built an air cooled 175cc 2-stroke race bike on a 90's era 125 chassis, and retailed them for $4,500, I believe they would sell enough of them for tracks to create classes specifically around them, and there would be a sea of green every time they were on the gate.

For it to become anything more than a pipe dream, some individual is going to have to build a prototype of such a bike on their own, and present it to the world as something with real potential by entering it in real competition and performing well. It wouldn't be that difficult to accomplish.
Wait...now it's 175cc, and $4500? No wonder the manufacturers haven't budged. It's a moving target. Wink
headache
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headache 6/29/2013 9:30pm
6/29/2013 9:30pm
Yamaha probably still has 1000's of Blaster motors laying around. They are 200cc's makes around 30hp with a midrange port and 34mm carburetor. be a simple air cooled motor, put it in a pre 05 steel frame with half decent forks for $4K. Cha ching! be a winner. I'd buy it.
CamP
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CamP 6/29/2013 9:33pm
6/29/2013 9:33pm Edited Date/Time 6/29/2013 9:39pm
headache wrote:
Yamaha probably still has 1000's of Blaster motors laying around. They are 200cc's makes around 30hp with a midrange port and 34mm carburetor. be a simple...
Yamaha probably still has 1000's of Blaster motors laying around. They are 200cc's makes around 30hp with a midrange port and 34mm carburetor. be a simple air cooled motor, put it in a pre 05 steel frame with half decent forks for $4K. Cha ching! be a winner. I'd buy it.
That would be a good engine to build a prototype around. With the lack of watercooling, and a mid 90's 125 chassis, I think it could be under 200lbs, even with cheap components like steel bars, etc.

What people need to remember is the reason bikes became watercooled is because they lost approx. 20% of their HP after 15 minutes. When was the last time any non-national amateur raced a moto that lasted more than 12 minutes? Water cooling adds a lot of weight and a lot of money to new bikes. Two YZ125 radiators retail for over $700 alone.

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