Honda on the Decline

burn1986
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burn1986 3/17/2013 10:51am
3/17/2013 10:51am Edited Date/Time 3/17/2013 11:01am
Honda has been a staple in mx as long as I can remember. Most of the enthusiasm has come from the engineers, not from management. Honda still makes a good product, but I predict management's desires winning out over the engineers - pulling out of moto soon.
john.a.miller397 3/17/2013 11:21am
3/17/2013 11:21am
7,438 is invoice less holdback with the dealer taking freight right in the shorts.
pacetruckdrvr
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pacetruckdrvr 3/17/2013 12:19pm
3/17/2013 12:19pm
AS64 wrote:
Don't know how to answer that.. But look for BIG things from Yamaha next year.
I have heard the same thing about Yamaha, hope its true.
pacetruckdrvr
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pacetruckdrvr 3/17/2013 12:24pm
3/17/2013 12:24pm
A freind of mine is sales manager at a Honda dealer, he told me recently that the Honda street bikes are good but not great, they are reliable as always but dont excell at anything.Now that doesnt mean that they are not trying to do well it just seemed like an odd statement.

The Shop

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Bytor
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Bytor 3/17/2013 12:38pm
3/17/2013 12:38pm
AS64 wrote:
Don't know how to answer that.. But look for BIG things from Yamaha next year.
pacetruckdrvr wrote:
I have heard the same thing about Yamaha, hope its true.
Just what they said about this design. Wont believe it till its proven.
CaptainRon126 3/17/2013 12:47pm
3/17/2013 12:47pm Edited Date/Time 3/17/2013 12:53pm
In the last 6 years I've had KTMs, Yamaha's, and Honda's. KTM's are piles of shit. Sure, they make two-strokes and are putting a bunch of money into the sport right now, but seriously their bikes are awful. The Yamaha's are okay, but nothing is like a Honda. Sure they only offer three models of motocross bikes, but the quality of a Honda is far and away better than any other brand. All you old guys are just butthurt they don't sell two-strokes anymore. Where's the Kawi and Suzuki hate then? Why would Honda want to sell bikes that are inferior to the ones they produce now?
Chest Rockwell 3/17/2013 1:54pm
3/17/2013 1:54pm
burn1986 wrote:
Honda has been a staple in mx as long as I can remember. Most of the enthusiasm has come from the engineers, not from management. Honda...
Honda has been a staple in mx as long as I can remember. Most of the enthusiasm has come from the engineers, not from management. Honda still makes a good product, but I predict management's desires winning out over the engineers - pulling out of moto soon.
I'm certain the enthusiasm is there on the side of management and the program they began after taking the shitstorm from RC is coming to fruition. With Barcia and Tomac on Red for the next few years, rest assured they will win again regularly before you know it.

They are better poised for the future in Sx/Mx than is any other OEM and people who say otherwise are plain blind to the facts.
AS64
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AS64 3/17/2013 2:05pm
3/17/2013 2:05pm
CaptainRon126 wrote:
In the last 6 years I've had KTMs, Yamaha's, and Honda's. KTM's are piles of shit. Sure, they make two-strokes and are putting a bunch of...
In the last 6 years I've had KTMs, Yamaha's, and Honda's. KTM's are piles of shit. Sure, they make two-strokes and are putting a bunch of money into the sport right now, but seriously their bikes are awful. The Yamaha's are okay, but nothing is like a Honda. Sure they only offer three models of motocross bikes, but the quality of a Honda is far and away better than any other brand. All you old guys are just butthurt they don't sell two-strokes anymore. Where's the Kawi and Suzuki hate then? Why would Honda want to sell bikes that are inferior to the ones they produce now?
I strongly agree with you on the KTM. As for Honda yes I agree they make a fine machine. There bikes are well put together with high quality parts and they are usually very reliable. I'd have to give the upper hand to Yamaha on the reliabilty, though. But as far as quality parts I have yet to see something more solid than a Honda.
RACERX69
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RACERX69 3/17/2013 2:17pm
3/17/2013 2:17pm
CaptainRon126 wrote:
In the last 6 years I've had KTMs, Yamaha's, and Honda's. KTM's are piles of shit. Sure, they make two-strokes and are putting a bunch of...
In the last 6 years I've had KTMs, Yamaha's, and Honda's. KTM's are piles of shit. Sure, they make two-strokes and are putting a bunch of money into the sport right now, but seriously their bikes are awful. The Yamaha's are okay, but nothing is like a Honda. Sure they only offer three models of motocross bikes, but the quality of a Honda is far and away better than any other brand. All you old guys are just butthurt they don't sell two-strokes anymore. Where's the Kawi and Suzuki hate then? Why would Honda want to sell bikes that are inferior to the ones they produce now?
Hmm..interesting. I bought a new 2011 KTM 250XC-W last year and it has been rock solid! Not one single issue. The quality, fit and finish are stellar. I'm sold on them. Both of my boys have Honda's for the reasons you stated, but once they wear them out..good bye Honda. My garage will be all KTM!!
mototrader
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mototrader 3/17/2013 2:48pm
3/17/2013 2:48pm
KTM, Kost Too Much.

Just in case you haven't noticed, we live in a different world right now, jobs are scarce in America and they (Honda and the like) are focusing on countries that are growing and 'coming up', not declining like America is.

America is in REALLY bad shape now compared to what it once was..we'll be lucky if motocross is even around in 5 years at this rate. Hate to be a doomer but this is the truth.
bd
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bd 3/17/2013 3:05pm
3/17/2013 3:05pm
Do you want 2013 Honda Two Stroke? If so, see the following:

125cc: http://www.servicehonda.com/honda-2010-models/125af

250cc: http://www.servicehonda.com/honda-2010-models/250af

500cc: http://www.servicehonda.com/honda-2010-models/500af

MXA's thoughts on the CR250AF: http://motocrossactionmag.com/Main/News/262b7cd8-8037-404e-a3f6-27cfff6…
Highsider
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Highsider 3/17/2013 4:01pm
3/17/2013 4:01pm Edited Date/Time 3/17/2013 4:02pm
AS64 wrote:
Don't know how to answer that.. But look for BIG things from Yamaha next year.
pacetruckdrvr wrote:
I have heard the same thing about Yamaha, hope its true.
Bytor wrote:
Just what they said about this design. Wont believe it till its proven.
I am considering the '12-'13 WR450 with the '09 style motor, EFI, in a YZ250F frame, for motocross.*
Oh, and it has electric start.Smile
Meanwhile, I am stockpiling new '09 YZ450F models.


* Thanks to John Burr Cycles for having the ride day at Milestone recently.
ehr400
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ehr400 3/17/2013 4:58pm
3/17/2013 4:58pm
EMA884mx wrote:
I had a 2004 Honda CRF250r (the first year they came out) that I bought brand new at the time. Without any doubt it was the...
I had a 2004 Honda CRF250r (the first year they came out) that I bought brand new at the time. Without any doubt it was the worst bike I've ever owned. It left such a bad taste in my mouth that I'd never consider going back to a Honda four stroke. There's no question their bikes have improved since then, but they lost a customer in me after that.
My buddy had one too, probably a bigger POS then my LAST 2 honda 450's. That train stopped in 2009. I had rode Hondas from 1994 till then.

People bag on Zuks but my last 2 have been excellent bikes. I also am a owner of a YZ250 smoker, and it puts smiles on my face the whole time.
mototrader
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mototrader 3/17/2013 5:05pm
3/17/2013 5:05pm
Anyone who buys a first year bike is asking for...just sayin'
GuyB
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GuyB 3/17/2013 5:08pm
3/17/2013 5:08pm
X-RACER wrote:
Is it just me, Honda used to win everything in dominating fashion. Is Big Red losing interest in motorcycles with all there success in car sales...
Is it just me, Honda used to win everything in dominating fashion. Is Big Red losing interest in motorcycles with all there success in car sales, Lawn Mowers and Generators. Honda street bikes over the last few years have been middle of the road also. It looks to me like Honda is losing interest in the motorcycle industry.
Any insight or opinions?
Opinions?

Yes. I think you're incorrect.
GuyB
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GuyB 3/17/2013 5:10pm
3/17/2013 5:10pm
burn1986 wrote:
Honda has been a staple in mx as long as I can remember. Most of the enthusiasm has come from the engineers, not from management. Honda...
Honda has been a staple in mx as long as I can remember. Most of the enthusiasm has come from the engineers, not from management. Honda still makes a good product, but I predict management's desires winning out over the engineers - pulling out of moto soon.
Okay, you're basing this on...?
ehr400
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ehr400 3/17/2013 5:42pm
3/17/2013 5:42pm
mototrader wrote:
Anyone who buys a first year bike is asking for...just sayin'
Well my 2002 CRF 450 was the best of my 3 CRF 450's.
gjbruny
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gjbruny 3/17/2013 7:50pm
3/17/2013 7:50pm
Camp332 wrote:
I just purchased a 2013 CRF450, and its fucking badass!
But it's still a Honda...... With less up top than the ktm 350.

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gotwings
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gotwings 3/17/2013 8:23pm
3/17/2013 8:23pm
X-RACER wrote:
Is it just me, Honda used to win everything in dominating fashion. Is Big Red losing interest in motorcycles with all there success in car sales...
Is it just me, Honda used to win everything in dominating fashion. Is Big Red losing interest in motorcycles with all there success in car sales, Lawn Mowers and Generators. Honda street bikes over the last few years have been middle of the road also. It looks to me like Honda is losing interest in the motorcycle industry.
Any insight or opinions?
I read your first post in the thread and thought, this might be a moron.

Then I read a couple more of your posts and changed my mind. You are a complete moron...
X-RACER
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X-RACER 3/17/2013 8:53pm
3/17/2013 8:53pm Edited Date/Time 3/17/2013 9:17pm
X-RACER wrote:
Is it just me, Honda used to win everything in dominating fashion. Is Big Red losing interest in motorcycles with all there success in car sales...
Is it just me, Honda used to win everything in dominating fashion. Is Big Red losing interest in motorcycles with all there success in car sales, Lawn Mowers and Generators. Honda street bikes over the last few years have been middle of the road also. It looks to me like Honda is losing interest in the motorcycle industry.
Any insight or opinions?
gotwings wrote:
I read your first post in the thread and thought, this might be a moron. Then I read a couple more of your posts and changed...
I read your first post in the thread and thought, this might be a moron.

Then I read a couple more of your posts and changed my mind. You are a complete moron...
You are entitled to your opinion(not much of one i'd say). Personal attack = childish. I stand by my opinion. Do you have one on the subject of this post. I take it you feel that Honda is still the powerhouse that they always were? Am I correct? You base this on what? You "GOTWINGS" do you Got an Opinion?? Please I would like to hear it.
VET176
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VET176 3/17/2013 9:17pm
3/17/2013 9:17pm
CaptainRon126 wrote:
In the last 6 years I've had KTMs, Yamaha's, and Honda's. KTM's are piles of shit. Sure, they make two-strokes and are putting a bunch of...
In the last 6 years I've had KTMs, Yamaha's, and Honda's. KTM's are piles of shit. Sure, they make two-strokes and are putting a bunch of money into the sport right now, but seriously their bikes are awful. The Yamaha's are okay, but nothing is like a Honda. Sure they only offer three models of motocross bikes, but the quality of a Honda is far and away better than any other brand. All you old guys are just butthurt they don't sell two-strokes anymore. Where's the Kawi and Suzuki hate then? Why would Honda want to sell bikes that are inferior to the ones they produce now?
Kawi & Suz still make 2 strokes. Blink

I have had no faults with my SX125 in 2 seasons of racing it. (MX & Hare Scrambles).

And yes I am butthurt. As long as Honda don't make 2 strokes they will not be getting any of my money.
X-RACER
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X-RACER 3/17/2013 10:15pm
3/17/2013 10:15pm
I had six KTM's in the recent past and they were good for me. I lost my bikes to the flood from Hurricane Sandy, salt water damage and am in the market for some new bikes both street and motocross. So I walk into a Honda dealer only to find they have nothing to even offer me.Yamaha acts like the YZ250 is unavailable and offers me a 4 stroke. KTM has 1 125SX and a waiting list for the 250.Husqvarna had 1 dual sport.
I would like a 250 or bigger 2 Stroke to play with and occasionally race for FUN. So what ....Gas Gas,TM, Sherco or Beta, not a bad selection.
But im amazed,how can a person (with cash in hand) in these "hard economic times" walk into dealers for the big five and not find a bike to buy. The question is not "why would HonDa want to sell bikes that are inferior to the ones they produce now" The question is why wont they sell bikes people (me) want to buy.
mototrader
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mototrader 3/17/2013 10:20pm
3/17/2013 10:20pm
X-RACER wrote:
I had six KTM's in the recent past and they were good for me. I lost my bikes to the flood from Hurricane Sandy, salt water...
I had six KTM's in the recent past and they were good for me. I lost my bikes to the flood from Hurricane Sandy, salt water damage and am in the market for some new bikes both street and motocross. So I walk into a Honda dealer only to find they have nothing to even offer me.Yamaha acts like the YZ250 is unavailable and offers me a 4 stroke. KTM has 1 125SX and a waiting list for the 250.Husqvarna had 1 dual sport.
I would like a 250 or bigger 2 Stroke to play with and occasionally race for FUN. So what ....Gas Gas,TM, Sherco or Beta, not a bad selection.
But im amazed,how can a person (with cash in hand) in these "hard economic times" walk into dealers for the big five and not find a bike to buy. The question is not "why would HonDa want to sell bikes that are inferior to the ones they produce now" The question is why wont they sell bikes people (me) want to buy.
x2

what amazes me more is shitty customer service from dealers. like dude..i can go to motosport/BTOsports/etc and get it for alot less and you still disrespect me?

dealers who don't know how to act deserve to go out of business!!
exsarg
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exsarg 3/17/2013 10:21pm
3/17/2013 10:21pm
pacetruckdrvr wrote:
I have heard the same thing about Yamaha, hope its true.
Bytor wrote:
Just what they said about this design. Wont believe it till its proven.
Highsider wrote:
I am considering the '12-'13 WR450 with the '09 style motor, EFI, in a YZ250F frame, for motocross.* Oh, and it has electric start.:) Meanwhile, I...
I am considering the '12-'13 WR450 with the '09 style motor, EFI, in a YZ250F frame, for motocross.*
Oh, and it has electric start.Smile
Meanwhile, I am stockpiling new '09 YZ450F models.


* Thanks to John Burr Cycles for having the ride day at Milestone recently.
where can u get a new 09 yz450. i want one!!. lighter then a honda. great susp . reliable
mototrader
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mototrader 3/17/2013 10:33pm
3/17/2013 10:33pm
mototrader wrote:
Anyone who buys a first year bike is asking for...just sayin'
ehr400 wrote:
Well my 2002 CRF 450 was the best of my 3 CRF 450's.
you lucked out.

but to be honest..with the first year crfs..from what i understand..just putting in steel valves/valve seats makes them pretty damn reliable.
TWzTED THROTTLE 3/17/2013 11:41pm
3/17/2013 11:41pm
exsarg wrote:
where can u get a new 09 yz450. i want one!!. lighter then a honda. great susp . reliable
Lighter than a Honda? Might want to look that one up.
exsarg
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exsarg 3/17/2013 11:44pm
3/17/2013 11:44pm
exsarg wrote:
where can u get a new 09 yz450. i want one!!. lighter then a honda. great susp . reliable
TWzTED THROTTLE wrote:
Lighter than a Honda? Might want to look that one up.
pretty sure the 09 yz was 231
Lone Wolf
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Lone Wolf 3/18/2013 12:13am
3/18/2013 12:13am
X-RACER wrote:
I had six KTM's in the recent past and they were good for me. I lost my bikes to the flood from Hurricane Sandy, salt water...
I had six KTM's in the recent past and they were good for me. I lost my bikes to the flood from Hurricane Sandy, salt water damage and am in the market for some new bikes both street and motocross. So I walk into a Honda dealer only to find they have nothing to even offer me.Yamaha acts like the YZ250 is unavailable and offers me a 4 stroke. KTM has 1 125SX and a waiting list for the 250.Husqvarna had 1 dual sport.
I would like a 250 or bigger 2 Stroke to play with and occasionally race for FUN. So what ....Gas Gas,TM, Sherco or Beta, not a bad selection.
But im amazed,how can a person (with cash in hand) in these "hard economic times" walk into dealers for the big five and not find a bike to buy. The question is not "why would HonDa want to sell bikes that are inferior to the ones they produce now" The question is why wont they sell bikes people (me) want to buy.
If that is truly the question you were asking, you went an odd way about it.

So the dealers said they could not order a bike in for you? Or do you just expect each dealership to have an example of every model sitting on the showroom floor? Perhaps in these "hard economic times" the dealers and importers do not want to carry a large inventory in case they cannot sell them all.

I don't know how it works in the USA, but over here it is quite common for dealerships to not have any new MX bikes in stock - they just don't sell enough of them to justify it. If you want one, they can normally get it for you pretty quickly, though.
Trauma
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Trauma 3/18/2013 12:15am
3/18/2013 12:15am
I've been thinking the opposite, just look at how many Honda's are on the start line.
TWzTED THROTTLE 3/18/2013 12:37am
3/18/2013 12:37am
exsarg wrote:
pretty sure the 09 yz was 231
Everything I can find for 2009 models puts the Honda about 2 pounds less when ready to ride.

The lightest 450s to date were the 2007 and 2008 Hondas.

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