SX Payout

yak651
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2/16/2013 10:04am
lumpy790 wrote:
Years ago at a Megga Series race..... I asked Kevin Walker why he did not race Pro and he said to me ..... why would I...
Years ago at a Megga Series race..... I asked Kevin Walker why he did not race Pro and he said to me ..... why would I travel 1000's of miles to race for $500 when I can do local races like this and make $2000 a weekend?
Bingo, how can a local series that gets maybe 500 spectators pay out more than a national race? This isn't just SX, MX also.
flarider
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2/16/2013 10:08am
lumpy790 wrote:
Years ago at a Megga Series race..... I asked Kevin Walker why he did not race Pro and he said to me ..... why would I...
Years ago at a Megga Series race..... I asked Kevin Walker why he did not race Pro and he said to me ..... why would I travel 1000's of miles to race for $500 when I can do local races like this and make $2000 a weekend?
That busy at indy?
WhKnuckle
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2/16/2013 10:08am
The merchandising idea would work too. I mentioned that ( in a different structure) earlier. Whatever works is fine.

We shouldn't be discouraged that we keep bringing up the same topics and they never seem to get solved. It's always like that. Formula 1 was killing drivers at an alarming rate for years before Jackie Stewart and a few other guys got together and said "enough". And that was a matter of life and death, not gas money to the next race. Those of us who have passion for the sport need to keep brining these things up, over and over, and not get discouraged or tired of repeating the same solutions. When we stop calling for improvements, that's the sure sign that nothing is going to get better.
Husqerdo
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2/16/2013 10:08am
yak651 wrote:
We always hear that SX and MX are paying to get it on TV. Is this something that has been proven, or is somthing that is...
We always hear that SX and MX are paying to get it on TV. Is this something that has been proven, or is somthing that is one of those urban legends that one person said and keeps spreading? Do "sports" like spelling bee, tractor pulls and hot dog eating pay to get on TV? Someone brought up drag racing that has no where near the fans in the stands as SX, that's on TV, are they paying? Just find it odd that there is absolutely nothing worth watching on the 200 satelite and cable stations, yet MX and SX have to pay to be on TV. Are all those other shows that are not worth watching paying to be on also?
Good question, flarider can you validate your position on this? Not trying to be a smart ass, but inquiring minds want to know.

The Shop

flarider
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2/16/2013 10:10am
lumpy790 wrote:
Years ago at a Megga Series race..... I asked Kevin Walker why he did not race Pro and he said to me ..... why would I...
Years ago at a Megga Series race..... I asked Kevin Walker why he did not race Pro and he said to me ..... why would I travel 1000's of miles to race for $500 when I can do local races like this and make $2000 a weekend?
yak651 wrote:
Bingo, how can a local series that gets maybe 500 spectators pay out more than a national race? This isn't just SX, MX also.
Because they get a shit ton of sign ups, and Kevin making $2000 is to win, where at a Supercross the $500 is for last.
Not to mention, their AX series gets way more than 500 spectators
flarider
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2/16/2013 10:17am
yak651 wrote:
We always hear that SX and MX are paying to get it on TV. Is this something that has been proven, or is somthing that is...
We always hear that SX and MX are paying to get it on TV. Is this something that has been proven, or is somthing that is one of those urban legends that one person said and keeps spreading? Do "sports" like spelling bee, tractor pulls and hot dog eating pay to get on TV? Someone brought up drag racing that has no where near the fans in the stands as SX, that's on TV, are they paying? Just find it odd that there is absolutely nothing worth watching on the 200 satelite and cable stations, yet MX and SX have to pay to be on TV. Are all those other shows that are not worth watching paying to be on also?
Husqerdo wrote:
Good question, flarider can you validate your position on this? Not trying to be a smart ass, but inquiring minds want to know.
You want an invoice from Speed and CBS or something?
It's a well known fact verified by GuyB, others in the industry and even Feld. DC has even said they have to pay for their TV package, which is why the times vary, based on availability and costs.
If it had such a great value, it'd be live every week, consistently, but it isn't.

Feld pays for the production team (so does MX Sports for Nationals) and the airtime.
That's fact.
GHR
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2/16/2013 11:16am Edited Date/Time 2/16/2013 11:18am
Just spit balling here--Someone should stick a few bolted down boxes with a coin slot in the pits like an offering box at church where people can drop in spare change to help a privateer. Give 75% of the coin to the 15-20 place riders and the other 25% to the LCQ 3-6th place guys. Have a big sign over it explaining what it's for. Put on display a SOB story each week of Johnny privateer who eats peanut butter and jelly at every meal and runs used tires in the race.
You would be surprised how many people would give to this if it really existed. I bet even some top riders would drop in a C note here and there. Have the Moto pastor dude (I forget his name) handle the accounting or someone trusted in the industry. There is no sane reason these dudes should risk what the risk and not at least get them a little cheddar to get to next round.
Husqerdo
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2/16/2013 11:45am
flarider wrote:
You want an invoice from Speed and CBS or something? It's a well known fact verified by GuyB, others in the industry and even Feld. DC...
You want an invoice from Speed and CBS or something?
It's a well known fact verified by GuyB, others in the industry and even Feld. DC has even said they have to pay for their TV package, which is why the times vary, based on availability and costs.
If it had such a great value, it'd be live every week, consistently, but it isn't.

Feld pays for the production team (so does MX Sports for Nationals) and the airtime.
That's fact.
So they pay for there production team, ok, but you are saying they have to pay Speed and CBS to broadcast their production?
Get the invoice.
Rupert X
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2/16/2013 12:02pm
1. The pay is a disgrace and everyone knows it.

2. Riders don't want to make a fuss because it's a small sport and they don't want to get labled as disgruntled. They

prefer to be thought of as gruntled.

3. Things won't change until the riders organize and stand up for themselves.

4. The revolution will happen, it's a matter of when. If you read Twitter, you see how upset many of the riders are,

yet they wont go on public forums, they feel Twitter is less of a broadcast (I guess)...

5. It is not just the payout they are upset about. LOTS of things in sx and mx....
flarider
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2/16/2013 12:16pm
Husqerdo wrote:
So they pay for there production team, ok, but you are saying they have to pay Speed and CBS to broadcast their production?
Get the invoice.
Yes, they pay CBS and Speed to air it, always have. Same goes for Nationals.
Whether you believe it or not is irrelevant, it's fact
longgone008
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2/16/2013 12:40pm
i am amazed how anyone could think feld is not making dumptrucks of money.In 2008 they paid 170 million for livewire motorsports who had 164 million in revenue.Livewire was in distress and feld new it.Its safe to say they are shrewd business men.They have the only game in town if you want to race supercross be ready to accept the purse.Sorry to say but thats the harsh reality of it.And no greed is not good in this case.
rrdecals
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2/16/2013 12:52pm
Everyone thinks they pay for TV time. I highly doubt that. They say they do just to make up more costs but, you would have to show me those contracts for me to believe that. Really people???
flarider
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2/16/2013 1:02pm
rrdecals wrote:
Everyone thinks they pay for TV time. I highly doubt that. They say they do just to make up more costs but, you would have to...
Everyone thinks they pay for TV time. I highly doubt that. They say they do just to make up more costs but, you would have to show me those contracts for me to believe that. Really people???
Right, which is why it gets preempted in TV markets across the country and shown at 4am and why it'll be delayed for the finish of a curling match or the Latvia Hockey draft

LOL

One day some of you will realize MX is no where near as big and popular a sport as you think it is.

If you want to see MX and SX on TV, they have to pay to get it there, the promoters themselves have told you this, and if you think they're making dump trucks of cash on SX, do the math.

Feld makes it's money in the events they have total control over, Ringling Bros Circus, Disney on Ice, other ice shows, Monster Jam and Nuclear Cowboyz.

SX is their biggest pain in the ass and lowest earner, but it helps offset some of the Monster Jam costs, so it provides value in that respect.

But do the math
yak651
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2/16/2013 1:18pm
rrdecals wrote:
Everyone thinks they pay for TV time. I highly doubt that. They say they do just to make up more costs but, you would have to...
Everyone thinks they pay for TV time. I highly doubt that. They say they do just to make up more costs but, you would have to show me those contracts for me to believe that. Really people???
flarider wrote:
Right, which is why it gets preempted in TV markets across the country and shown at 4am and why it'll be delayed for the finish of...
Right, which is why it gets preempted in TV markets across the country and shown at 4am and why it'll be delayed for the finish of a curling match or the Latvia Hockey draft

LOL

One day some of you will realize MX is no where near as big and popular a sport as you think it is.

If you want to see MX and SX on TV, they have to pay to get it there, the promoters themselves have told you this, and if you think they're making dump trucks of cash on SX, do the math.

Feld makes it's money in the events they have total control over, Ringling Bros Circus, Disney on Ice, other ice shows, Monster Jam and Nuclear Cowboyz.

SX is their biggest pain in the ass and lowest earner, but it helps offset some of the Monster Jam costs, so it provides value in that respect.

But do the math
Ringling Bros, Disney on Ice, Nuclear Cowboyz - What do they have in common? Entertainment that is paid to be there
Supercross - Entertainment that pays to be there
longgone008
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2/16/2013 1:21pm Edited Date/Time 2/16/2013 1:43pm
Math is simple here if mr feld was not making a profit on sx he would shit can it.And the key word is profit.A man on the forbes 400 list didnt get there by losing money.And when the circus and disney on ice comes to the united center in chicago you can be assured the wirtz family dam sure they are not paying them to be there
flarider
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2/16/2013 1:22pm
Who said it wasn't making money?
98cr250r
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2/16/2013 2:17pm
rrdecals wrote:
Everyone thinks they pay for TV time. I highly doubt that. They say they do just to make up more costs but, you would have to...
Everyone thinks they pay for TV time. I highly doubt that. They say they do just to make up more costs but, you would have to show me those contracts for me to believe that. Really people???
flarider wrote:
Right, which is why it gets preempted in TV markets across the country and shown at 4am and why it'll be delayed for the finish of...
Right, which is why it gets preempted in TV markets across the country and shown at 4am and why it'll be delayed for the finish of a curling match or the Latvia Hockey draft

LOL

One day some of you will realize MX is no where near as big and popular a sport as you think it is.

If you want to see MX and SX on TV, they have to pay to get it there, the promoters themselves have told you this, and if you think they're making dump trucks of cash on SX, do the math.

Feld makes it's money in the events they have total control over, Ringling Bros Circus, Disney on Ice, other ice shows, Monster Jam and Nuclear Cowboyz.

SX is their biggest pain in the ass and lowest earner, but it helps offset some of the Monster Jam costs, so it provides value in that respect.

But do the math
If they have to pay to get the racing on TV... What is the motivation for doing it?

I'm not sure about anyone else, but when I pay to put something on the radio or in a newspaper (never done tv), I call it advertising. A couple of hours on tv is some pretty expensive advertising. If its to fill the stands, they could be getting by with a whole lot less. If its to make the "fans" happy? They could do it a lot cheaper online...

I may be way off base, but I would guess that the "money they have to spend" to get it on TV, is actually being paid by everyone that has banners alongside of the track. Banners or bail covers that would have no/very little point, if it wasn't on tv... And of that money, I'm sure it does not all go to pay for TV... theres at least a little profit in there. IF this is the case, or even remotely close to reality, calling it spending money to be on TV is silly. It falls under the heading of "cost of goods sold". Honda, Parts Unlimited, etc... is paying money to be on TV, Feld is just the middle man.

Back to the question... Whats the motivation for getting it on TV?
flarider
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2/16/2013 2:23pm
It is advertising, like I said, it's a big ad to get butts in seats when the circus comes to your town, and yes, it's an added value to the series sponsors, like Monster.
2/16/2013 3:15pm
Great to hear about pay to be on TV or NOT. But why can't we pay riders a real compensation for what they do. Yes it's like going to the circus,Sea World or any other entertainment,but loved the point riders PAY to perform! Would like to know what the AMA people get paid,or others who profit from SX show on a weekly basis. Rider we know has girlfriend who does Monster Girl of the two guess who makes more. Loading the top three spots of 250,paying $230 for making the night show is just Sick.
rrdecals
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2/16/2013 3:17pm
Sorry people your not getting it. Feld makes money. They are not going to pay to put it on TV. DC said they have to pay to get outdoors on TV. No one has ever said this is the case for SX.
flarider
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2/16/2013 3:24pm
rrdecals wrote:
Sorry people your not getting it. Feld makes money. They are not going to pay to put it on TV. DC said they have to pay...
Sorry people your not getting it. Feld makes money. They are not going to pay to put it on TV. DC said they have to pay to get outdoors on TV. No one has ever said this is the case for SX.
It is, but of course you know better
Toste
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2/16/2013 3:38pm
Great to hear about pay to be on TV or NOT. But why can't we pay riders a real compensation for what they do. Yes it's...
Great to hear about pay to be on TV or NOT. But why can't we pay riders a real compensation for what they do. Yes it's like going to the circus,Sea World or any other entertainment,but loved the point riders PAY to perform! Would like to know what the AMA people get paid,or others who profit from SX show on a weekly basis. Rider we know has girlfriend who does Monster Girl of the two guess who makes more. Loading the top three spots of 250,paying $230 for making the night show is just Sick.
I could be wrong, but I think nearly every other motorsport has an entry fee of some sort. Besides offsetting operating costs, I imagine it's also used as a way to keep riff-raff out. With no entry fees, practice would probably need to start at 9AM to accomodate the resulting D/E/F/etc. practice groups in each class.
flarider
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2/16/2013 3:43pm Edited Date/Time 2/16/2013 3:44pm
Entry fees also can keep the promoter from being seen as an "employer" in the event of an injury to prevent workers comp claims as well as shows the participant's involvement is fully voluntary and not a employment
Toste
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2/16/2013 3:53pm
flarider wrote:
Entry fees also can keep the promoter from being seen as an "employer" in the event of an injury to prevent workers comp claims as well...
Entry fees also can keep the promoter from being seen as an "employer" in the event of an injury to prevent workers comp claims as well as shows the participant's involvement is fully voluntary and not a employment
Good point. Some of the guys here are really (erroneously) hung up on the employer/employee paradigm as it relates to Feld & the teams/riders.
ando
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2/16/2013 4:01pm
I'm with flarider on this one. I think many of you have an overinflated view of the "value" of SX as an entertainment sport.

With regard to paying for TV time, I have read that in a few places, so I believe it is the case. The point of course is that you can attract larger sponsorship dollars if you can show you have a TV package.

It's pretty simple really. In the broadcaster/advertiser/promoter relationship, the one that is never out of pocket is the broadcaster. If you have a show for which they think they can attract advertising dollars in excess of the production costs, they will pay you for the show. If not, then you pay them. Sponsorship value is simply based on what exposure the sponsors believe they can get.

So it really boils down to this - how much exposure can you get from SX? The answer, if you look at all the evidence, is not very much. Until that changes then none of the rest will change.

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