The Amateur Moto-Dream... A Cancer?

Scott167
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CA
1/12/2013 12:07pm
mx317 wrote:
Close, a university is made up of different colleges. For example, The University of Tennessee would have the college of nursing, the college of education, etc...
Close, a university is made up of different colleges. For example, The University of Tennessee would have the college of nursing, the college of education, etc, all within the university.
That's correct but here in Canada college is what is referred to as community college in the states. It is where you go for professions that require a diploma and usually are 2-3 years of school. University is where you go for a degree. I guess its all what you are used to as far as naming goes.

My racing has taken a back seat for school. I wasnt going to become pro and make a career so I decided to go to school. I still ride and race occasionally and will continue to do so as long as I can.
thatdad
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1/12/2013 12:57pm
If you have the right answer you are a better man than me.

I grew up in the seventies and raced a handful of times on a beater bike I bought with a part time job. None of my friends or their parents had any money so it didn't bother me much, but after going to a handful of races it didn't take me long to figure out that you needed more cash than I had to race.

I went on to school, got my undergrad in finance/math and then put a law degree on top. Now I can spoil my kids and catch resentment from people who have a lot more than I ever did as a kid.

As far as needing a degree to prosper, my two best clients were my best friends growing up. Neither had any college or money as kids, and both could now buy me with pocket change. Good for them, they earned it.

I never met a succesful person who spent his or her time bitching about what someone else has.
Toste
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Fantasy
1/12/2013 1:28pm
RCC104 wrote:
[b]DISCLAIMER:[/b] This may piss-off some, maybe even hit home, but it's the truth in my opinion. Also, this is in no way meant to attack any...
DISCLAIMER: This may piss-off some, maybe even hit home, but it's the truth in my opinion. Also, this is in no way meant to attack any particular individual.
----------------------------------

Families and riders need to start forgetting about all the Big AM races, advancement crap (or lack there of), sponsorships, and everything for a second. More need to ask themselves a couple questions. Questions like, what is the end game for this amateur motocross stuff? Are you, or is your young MXer, already showing the traits of what it takes to be a top pro in MX? I'm not talking just barely making points at a pro national, either. As you probably know, there is no money or long term career in that. I'm talking a money in the bank, top tier, type guy.

By 16-years-old or so, a rider should be showing IT, if they have it. If not, why bother to worry about staying B/C, remortgaging your home so you can make the upcoming big AM races, getting trainers, buying 5 bikes, and so on?

Hell, if a kid gets bumped to A locally, he should be PUMPED OUT OF HIS MIND! He shouldn't be worrying about how to sandbag his way to a top 20 at Loretta's in the B class.

Here's Why:
At age 16-17, a kid SHOULD be looking toward college soon. In these times, a degree is necessary for decent life. In the grand scheme of things, a Loretta's qualification, top 10, podium, or even championship, is not *cough*Ben Riddle*. So, if a kid is bumped to A, they needs to embrace it. The A Class can fit a college kid lifestyle perfectly if they do it right.

By the time they are starting college classes, a rider should already have a pretty good handle of A class racing. Especially if they got bumped into it at around 16-years-old. By then, the rider might even be able to start making money back from local races. Which is perfect for the poor college kid who loves motocross. On a good weekend, maybe he'd even have some extra money for spending on random stuff like books, brew for his buds, gas, or maybe his bike. If he sets up his class schedule right, he could still be riding a lot and getting better, too, which would naturally happen racing with faster A Class guys as it is! Maybe earn a pro license while earning a degree?

It's been done it. You just don't know the guys, because they're back in 35th with the rest of the home schooled, former LL finishers. Although, maybe you will remember the name Bruce Stratton? That guy had a degree, a full-time job, and still held a national number for years. So, if there is some ability, and there is a real desire to make it work, it could happen. But still, the important thing is just getting that degree.

Best of all, when all is said and done with school, you can get a real job. Then afford to put money back into the industry by riding and racing for fun, probably well into the 30s and beyond. Way better than burning out at age 19 and leaving the sport completely (except when at work, sweeping the floor at a local dealership, of course). Then screw it... Once there is money in the bank, vacation time on the schedule, and a love of motocross still burning, why not drop down to +30 B/C and head to Loretta's...
I see it as sort of a chicken-or-egg situation.

Is the local scene dead/dying because everyone is chasing after the "Professional Amateur" scene, or is it the other way around?

EIther way, it's kinda sad. There is safety and strength in numbers, and it seems like motocross is trending the wrong way in that regard.
ga_pike
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Valdosta, GA, USA
1/12/2013 1:42pm
It's interesting to debate something like this. In my state we have the Hope Scholarship. If you graduate with a certain GPA from high school, you get a free ride to college as long as you maintain a certain GPA in college. Problem is, too many kids get the idea they should be going to college because that's what gets fed to them from day 1. The school systems pump kids out at the minimum GPA to get Hope because they don't want their school to look poor. Then, these kids are either not ready for college or they aren't college material and they waste a full year of the state's money by failing out. We, as a society (in the US) do not push kids towards tech schools or other fields because it's thought that every kid should go to college.

I raced until the day I graduated high school. I played ice hockey in the winter when we lived in WV and when we moved to GA, I played football in the fall. I was lucky enough to get a scholarship to play college football and I quit racing because I knew racing wasn't going to be my way of life. To me, it's important that kids, even top level am racers, be exposed to other sports and activities because most of them are not going to be the next JS7 or RC. If ore high schools would add clubs to support racing of different types, you may see this happen. I'd live to see a "Motorsports Club" at the high school level where kids could learn to ride, drive, work on cars/bikes, and also learn the business side of things. It might even direct more kids to tech schools for welding and fab or engine mechanics or college Engineering programs who otherwise might have chosen a different path.

The Shop

jndmx
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South Kingston, RI, USA
1/12/2013 2:31pm Edited Date/Time 1/12/2013 2:33pm
I think you also have to recognize that some families that pursue the national am series races have no expectations of it being a career.
I know a few families from racing here that have been to Lorettas multiple times and expend a lot of time and money doing the entire process but it's a family event to them.
Yes of course the rider wants to do well but they aren't placing the focus of their lives on the results.

And as others have said you have to realize the goal of college isn't that important to some folks for what they want to do in life.

I know for me it was only racing on the local scene with my son but being as I am single it got real expensive.
Worked 2 jobs and didn't always do my credit rating a favor but I got to spend thousands of hours with my son as he grew up.
I would do it all over again to have the relationship we do.....priceless.....and at no point did we think it was going to make him a pro someday.
motox505
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Swarthmore, PA, USA
1/12/2013 4:27pm
What's stopping you from going to college at say age 25-30? There are loads of people like that at my uni.
Nobody is stopping anyone, but it is surely easier to pull it off when you're younger and possibly have some parental backing. When I went back I was 22, paid my own bills, and graduated around 26, it was hard to work and goto school. Paying your own bills while taking full time classes is incredibly difficult. But you are right, plenty of people do it.

I've had a couple laughs with friends about this, but at my last pro race (one of my last races ever before hanging it up) I battled all day with Justin Brayton. I would say Justin is one of the biggest anomalies in the sport in regards to improvement later in your career and getting actual factory rides. That day at Steel City in 2003, he got one of his first points and I hung it up for good. I wouldn't trade that decision for the inverse situation though. Pro moto is a tough way to make a buck, even if you make it to the top.

Overall 23
Justin Brayton
Fort Dodge, IA
Moto 1: 20
Moto 2: 21

Overall 24
Chris D Hunter
Stockton, NJ
Moto 1: 21
Moto 2: 22
Motodrew295
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1/12/2013 4:40pm Edited Date/Time 1/12/2013 4:46pm
Excelent post. I agree 100% with your observations and reflection. I have thought this for a long time, people are so delusional with their expectations of where the sport is going to take them. People need to remember that this is a hobby and will have no value or real benefit in life other than fun times and good memories. Seems like there is a 'gold rush' going on with moto dreams and most people fail and leave themselves with little options when they grow out of their moto stage.
Hando
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1/12/2013 4:46pm Edited Date/Time 1/12/2013 4:54pm
College is a really, really big scam these days.

Getting a STEM degree is worth it (Science, Technology, Engineering, Math) and even that can be debated but pushing college for everyone isn't the answer. See Occupy Wall Street..they are over-educated marixst losers with no jobs, no skills and crushing debt.

You don't need a degree to be sucessful in life, you need to be smart and learn skills. I know plenty of computer programmers who have never spent a day in a classroom and are beyond talented. I also know really, really smart people who have engineering degrees and are doing just fine too. What the communists and liberal elites of America want you to believe is that college is some kind of fairy land where people go and automatically get smart and their social situation rises, but its really the opposite. Want to know something funny? Smart people aren't made..they're born. If you took the smart kids with engineering and science degrees and told them they couldn't go to college, they would still be successful because smart. motivated people get ahead, no matter what.

Don't study communism at college and you'll do alright..otherwise its a fucking joke and these kids would learn more from racing than spending 4 years reading socialist nonsense.

just in case you haven't noticed, the price of college increases every year and jobs are paying less and less every year. it doesnt help that we just had a tax increase too..

id argue for a person of average intelligence, going the trade school route is a better career decision considering you get paid to learn, instead of drowning in debt.
FlaNard
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1/12/2013 5:09pm
I know a whole lot of people who are a bit older who did just fine without going to college. Not really seeing much (or any) of that these days. You need a masters degree to get most jobs in the economy we have here right now. Being a super duper driven individual who learned their lessons from the school of hard knocks won't even get you an interview. Even at a department store or gas station there will always be a ceiling for you now. You can work your ass off and some kid with a degree will come in and be your boss or take your promotion. That's another thing to consider. Businesses don't promote from within like they used to. The days of people staying with one company for their whole career are long gone. I don't even know where I would be if I didn't have my level of education in this economy. Stay in school kids. You aren't Dungey. Even if you make it pro you likely won't be set for life, and in an industry that is shrinking I wouldn't bank on you becoming the next Regis either.
RCC104
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Upstate, NY, USA
1/12/2013 5:21pm Edited Date/Time 1/12/2013 5:28pm
This has definitely turned more into a college vs. no college debate than I intended.

The bottom line that I was basically trying to get across is some of these families dump all this money into racing - money that they don't have - to chase a dream that 99% of the time won't pan out. And many times it seems there is no focus on actually setting these young guys up for a career and future after racing.

Its just pure fact that college just happens to be something that has a much, MUCH, higher success rate than MX, no matter how some of you try to spin it...so I used it as my example
Hando
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1/12/2013 5:43pm
FlaNard wrote:
I know a whole lot of people who are a bit older who did just fine without going to college. Not really seeing much (or any)...
I know a whole lot of people who are a bit older who did just fine without going to college. Not really seeing much (or any) of that these days. You need a masters degree to get most jobs in the economy we have here right now. Being a super duper driven individual who learned their lessons from the school of hard knocks won't even get you an interview. Even at a department store or gas station there will always be a ceiling for you now. You can work your ass off and some kid with a degree will come in and be your boss or take your promotion. That's another thing to consider. Businesses don't promote from within like they used to. The days of people staying with one company for their whole career are long gone. I don't even know where I would be if I didn't have my level of education in this economy. Stay in school kids. You aren't Dungey. Even if you make it pro you likely won't be set for life, and in an industry that is shrinking I wouldn't bank on you becoming the next Regis either.
More and more Masters & PhD students are applying for food stamps than ever before.

http://www.businessinsider.com/infographic-from-phd-to-food-stamps-2013…

it's a really, big misconception that a college degree is worth it for everyone, when it only benefits the highly intelligent who are capable of completing quantitative degrees like engineering and whatnot. Companies today don't have time to train people, let alone dummies with degrees in certified communism.
MotoX85
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Centralia, IL, USA
1/12/2013 5:43pm
So in summary after I agree and disagree with some topics.

It is everyones decision to do what they want. If you choose one direction, it may not be the best for others. Your post has good and bad ideas and thoughts FOR YOU,

What I have taken from this post is WE are gonna do what WE think is good for us and I support You doing what is right for YOU.

I have friends that would mortgage their house 10 times for thier kid to "qualify" for Lorettas, thats their choice, not mine, but who am I to even question their hopes and dreams. My hope and dream is to provide my kid with "everything" he needs to succeed, within reason, options I never had, what he does with it is his choice.
Hando
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1/12/2013 5:48pm
RCC104 wrote:
This has definitely turned more into a college vs. no college debate than I intended. The bottom line that I was basically trying to get across...
This has definitely turned more into a college vs. no college debate than I intended.

The bottom line that I was basically trying to get across is some of these families dump all this money into racing - money that they don't have - to chase a dream that 99% of the time won't pan out. And many times it seems there is no focus on actually setting these young guys up for a career and future after racing.

Its just pure fact that college just happens to be something that has a much, MUCH, higher success rate than MX, no matter how some of you try to spin it...so I used it as my example
well you mentioned college as if it the only option for success. why not go to trade school or you know....get a job..learn something useful..we live in the information age, it's pretty easy to learn granted you take the initiative to buckle down and teach yourself.

I do agree with what you're saying overall though..alot of families think there is going to be some big payoff when in reality its not going to pan out for 90% of them and even the ones who do 'make it' ..in my opinion are pretty underpaid. I fucking LOVE LOVE LOEVE motocross and road racing but the salaries most of these guys are making today is pretty pathetic. Its a shame IMO because i think mx & road racers are world class athletes...
FlaNard
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1/12/2013 5:58pm Edited Date/Time 1/12/2013 6:00pm
FlaNard wrote:
I know a whole lot of people who are a bit older who did just fine without going to college. Not really seeing much (or any)...
I know a whole lot of people who are a bit older who did just fine without going to college. Not really seeing much (or any) of that these days. You need a masters degree to get most jobs in the economy we have here right now. Being a super duper driven individual who learned their lessons from the school of hard knocks won't even get you an interview. Even at a department store or gas station there will always be a ceiling for you now. You can work your ass off and some kid with a degree will come in and be your boss or take your promotion. That's another thing to consider. Businesses don't promote from within like they used to. The days of people staying with one company for their whole career are long gone. I don't even know where I would be if I didn't have my level of education in this economy. Stay in school kids. You aren't Dungey. Even if you make it pro you likely won't be set for life, and in an industry that is shrinking I wouldn't bank on you becoming the next Regis either.
Hando wrote:
More and more Masters & PhD students are applying for food stamps than ever before. http://www.businessinsider.com/infographic-from-phd-to-food-stamps-2013-1 it's a really, big misconception that a college degree is...
More and more Masters & PhD students are applying for food stamps than ever before.

http://www.businessinsider.com/infographic-from-phd-to-food-stamps-2013…

it's a really, big misconception that a college degree is worth it for everyone, when it only benefits the highly intelligent who are capable of completing quantitative degrees like engineering and whatnot. Companies today don't have time to train people, let alone dummies with degrees in certified communism.
There are probably more of everyone applying for food stamps then ever before. But I'm just stating what I see in everyday life. But we're hijacking the topic. So I'll leave it at that.
TomZ
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1/13/2013 7:35am Edited Date/Time 1/13/2013 7:47am
RCC104 wrote:
[b]DISCLAIMER:[/b] This may piss-off some, maybe even hit home, but it's the truth in my opinion. Also, this is in no way meant to attack any...
DISCLAIMER: This may piss-off some, maybe even hit home, but it's the truth in my opinion. Also, this is in no way meant to attack any particular individual.
----------------------------------

Families and riders need to start forgetting about all the Big AM races, advancement crap (or lack there of), sponsorships, and everything for a second. More need to ask themselves a couple questions. Questions like, what is the end game for this amateur motocross stuff? Are you, or is your young MXer, already showing the traits of what it takes to be a top pro in MX? I'm not talking just barely making points at a pro national, either. As you probably know, there is no money or long term career in that. I'm talking a money in the bank, top tier, type guy.

By 16-years-old or so, a rider should be showing IT, if they have it. If not, why bother to worry about staying B/C, remortgaging your home so you can make the upcoming big AM races, getting trainers, buying 5 bikes, and so on?

Hell, if a kid gets bumped to A locally, he should be PUMPED OUT OF HIS MIND! He shouldn't be worrying about how to sandbag his way to a top 20 at Loretta's in the B class.

Here's Why:
At age 16-17, a kid SHOULD be looking toward college soon. In these times, a degree is necessary for decent life. In the grand scheme of things, a Loretta's qualification, top 10, podium, or even championship, is not *cough*Ben Riddle*. So, if a kid is bumped to A, they needs to embrace it. The A Class can fit a college kid lifestyle perfectly if they do it right.

By the time they are starting college classes, a rider should already have a pretty good handle of A class racing. Especially if they got bumped into it at around 16-years-old. By then, the rider might even be able to start making money back from local races. Which is perfect for the poor college kid who loves motocross. On a good weekend, maybe he'd even have some extra money for spending on random stuff like books, brew for his buds, gas, or maybe his bike. If he sets up his class schedule right, he could still be riding a lot and getting better, too, which would naturally happen racing with faster A Class guys as it is! Maybe earn a pro license while earning a degree?

It's been done it. You just don't know the guys, because they're back in 35th with the rest of the home schooled, former LL finishers. Although, maybe you will remember the name Bruce Stratton? That guy had a degree, a full-time job, and still held a national number for years. So, if there is some ability, and there is a real desire to make it work, it could happen. But still, the important thing is just getting that degree.

Best of all, when all is said and done with school, you can get a real job. Then afford to put money back into the industry by riding and racing for fun, probably well into the 30s and beyond. Way better than burning out at age 19 and leaving the sport completely (except when at work, sweeping the floor at a local dealership, of course). Then screw it... Once there is money in the bank, vacation time on the schedule, and a love of motocross still burning, why not drop down to +30 B/C and head to Loretta's...
Regis wrote:
Degree? I may be a minority here, but I don't believe that is the key to success. Pushing a degree is like pushing religion on me...
Degree? I may be a minority here, but I don't believe that is the key to success. Pushing a degree is like pushing religion on me. You don't have to have it in life to be successful.



Life is about following YOUR dreams and not letting anything stop you.
Not getting a college degree.

I raced my whole young life. Missed a lot of school and barely finished high school. Not because I was dumb but because of the school I missed. I never set foot into college as a student.

I never won an amateur title, I can't remember even getting a top three. I consider my racing "career" a complete success!

I have traveled the world on a shoestring budget, been to almost every state in this country in a truck and trailer with buddies, raced in front of thousands of people, got a few top tens in SX and really didn't do that well in outdoors. Somehow, someway I got a factory ride in 3 short years. I learned about life, its failures, success, marketing, budgeting, social skills and adapting to the real world. Racing was my college. I never got rich from racing, I had 9 surgeries, lots of bills, but when I stopped I was better of financially then I was if I was in debt from college loans. I have memories and stories that would put any college kegger story to shame.

Today I am making 6 figures a year doing something else I love doing because it's what I wanted to do when everybody told me I couldn't. I am doing what I do because of racing and the life lessons I learned from being a mid pack pro rider. Racing taught me, if you want something, you go and get it by any means necessary.

The top select few may make enough to never work again, but you can be very successful as a mid pack or back of the pack guy, it just depends on what you consider successful. Are you a failure if when you atop you don't have enough money to retire? I stopped racing at 25 andI bought my first house at 30 and trust me, there wasn't any money from racing that helped me.

Racing was my college, had I listened to everyone else and went and got a degree I honestly think I would be miserable, making 1/2 as much and still paying off college loans.


Oh, I forgot to mention. I was raised by a single mom who cut hair. So don't think for a minute I had mommy and daddy money either....
Regis, you were an exception then and you are the exception now. You and I can name twenty guys we knew(or still know) that chased the dream and have all those great memories but didn't "make it" . I would never discourage anyone from chasing their dreams in racing or this industry. I did and in some respects paid a price.........no regrets.......but more often then not it is a very tough road when the dream ends.

I hate the situation that results in the young person hating MX or the industry and they end up never touching a bike again. In my opinion much better to keep the fire burning , follow what might be considered a more traditional path and "re-chase the dream" time after time throughout life.

I love this sport and the industry that surrounds it but it can be cruel. If you (or your kids) are not performing at the very top level nationally by age 13/14 it becomes very unlikely that they have the gift. That does not mean you should stop racing.......but get real about your prospects for making a good living as a racer and plan for an alternative course in life.

It is great to be 50 years old and have 40+ years around bikes to look back on. Sometimes you almost feel wise...........never made it as a racer.........did some cool stuff in the industry and have scars and memories to show for it. The piece of this that means the most is the enthusiasm I still feel for moto.

Harsh, cruel, unforgiving........yep........cancer?.......please find a better comparison. You have choices in life (and racing) cancer seems to steal many of those choices.
BAMX
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Fallbrook, CA, USA
1/13/2013 8:17am
Regis wrote:
Degree? I may be a minority here, but I don't believe that is the key to success. Pushing a degree is like pushing religion on me...
Degree? I may be a minority here, but I don't believe that is the key to success. Pushing a degree is like pushing religion on me. You don't have to have it in life to be successful.



Life is about following YOUR dreams and not letting anything stop you.
Not getting a college degree.

I raced my whole young life. Missed a lot of school and barely finished high school. Not because I was dumb but because of the school I missed. I never set foot into college as a student.

I never won an amateur title, I can't remember even getting a top three. I consider my racing "career" a complete success!

I have traveled the world on a shoestring budget, been to almost every state in this country in a truck and trailer with buddies, raced in front of thousands of people, got a few top tens in SX and really didn't do that well in outdoors. Somehow, someway I got a factory ride in 3 short years. I learned about life, its failures, success, marketing, budgeting, social skills and adapting to the real world. Racing was my college. I never got rich from racing, I had 9 surgeries, lots of bills, but when I stopped I was better of financially then I was if I was in debt from college loans. I have memories and stories that would put any college kegger story to shame.

Today I am making 6 figures a year doing something else I love doing because it's what I wanted to do when everybody told me I couldn't. I am doing what I do because of racing and the life lessons I learned from being a mid pack pro rider. Racing taught me, if you want something, you go and get it by any means necessary.

The top select few may make enough to never work again, but you can be very successful as a mid pack or back of the pack guy, it just depends on what you consider successful. Are you a failure if when you atop you don't have enough money to retire? I stopped racing at 25 andI bought my first house at 30 and trust me, there wasn't any money from racing that helped me.

Racing was my college, had I listened to everyone else and went and got a degree I honestly think I would be miserable, making 1/2 as much and still paying off college loans.


Oh, I forgot to mention. I was raised by a single mom who cut hair. So don't think for a minute I had mommy and daddy money either....
So true....Being forced to live on a budget and deal with all that goes along with the struggles of the road would treat most a lot better than going to college because your parents wanted you to. The only problem I see with what you said is that these days it doesn't seem like the amatuers are chasing the dream in a clapped box van and piecing a bike together week in week out. They seem to be going with their parents who mortgaged everything and are running a pusher motorhome and 5 bikes.
WORCSRacer
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Clovis, CA, USA
1/13/2013 8:26am Edited Date/Time 1/13/2013 8:30am
Regis wrote:
Degree? I may be a minority here, but I don't believe that is the key to success. Pushing a degree is like pushing religion on me...
Degree? I may be a minority here, but I don't believe that is the key to success. Pushing a degree is like pushing religion on me. You don't have to have it in life to be successful.



Life is about following YOUR dreams and not letting anything stop you.
Not getting a college degree.

I raced my whole young life. Missed a lot of school and barely finished high school. Not because I was dumb but because of the school I missed. I never set foot into college as a student.

I never won an amateur title, I can't remember even getting a top three. I consider my racing "career" a complete success!

I have traveled the world on a shoestring budget, been to almost every state in this country in a truck and trailer with buddies, raced in front of thousands of people, got a few top tens in SX and really didn't do that well in outdoors. Somehow, someway I got a factory ride in 3 short years. I learned about life, its failures, success, marketing, budgeting, social skills and adapting to the real world. Racing was my college. I never got rich from racing, I had 9 surgeries, lots of bills, but when I stopped I was better of financially then I was if I was in debt from college loans. I have memories and stories that would put any college kegger story to shame.

Today I am making 6 figures a year doing something else I love doing because it's what I wanted to do when everybody told me I couldn't. I am doing what I do because of racing and the life lessons I learned from being a mid pack pro rider. Racing taught me, if you want something, you go and get it by any means necessary.

The top select few may make enough to never work again, but you can be very successful as a mid pack or back of the pack guy, it just depends on what you consider successful. Are you a failure if when you atop you don't have enough money to retire? I stopped racing at 25 andI bought my first house at 30 and trust me, there wasn't any money from racing that helped me.

Racing was my college, had I listened to everyone else and went and got a degree I honestly think I would be miserable, making 1/2 as much and still paying off college loans.


Oh, I forgot to mention. I was raised by a single mom who cut hair. So don't think for a minute I had mommy and daddy money either....
RCC104 wrote:
Regis I'm not saying it's totally impossible. Obviously there are going to be exceptions. You're proof of that. But even you had to admit you're the...
Regis I'm not saying it's totally impossible. Obviously there are going to be exceptions. You're proof of that. But even you had to admit you're the minority.

I'm just talking on a grander scale of things. For every one of you, there are probably 100 guys out there that went at it, couldn't make it, put themselves and their family in debt, and then didn't have that same drive you had to make it work in another way. Now those guys sit around wondering how to make life work for them.

I'm not saying a degree is a guarantee that you will be successful either. But I can say with confidence, you're going to have one hell of an easier time finding a career that will pay well, that you can also enjoy, all because you have that piece of paper.

I wasn't trying to crush dreams with this post. I just think more families just need to look at the whole picture.
Regis wrote:
I think families in racing need to understand that success in racing should't be measured by where little johnny finishes or how much money he makes...
I think families in racing need to understand that success in racing should't be measured by where little johnny finishes or how much money he makes.

Parents need to teach kids the deeper meaning in life and its lessons while racing, not try to cash in. Racing offers a lot of tools to be successful later in life. If the parents understand that, and realize they can instill these values while getting to spend time with their kid, that is the key.

As a parent now, I have such a deep respect for my mom because of what she helped achieve, where she helped me go and how we got there. I want to be that parent to my kids.

Just as you said, I am a minority in racing, however, I know a lot of people that got through college and they aren't anybody, living in debt and making no more than they would had they not gone to college.

If you want to be successful, you will find a way to be successful. That is what I am teaching my kids and I am trying to show them.
It certainly appears that you found the benefit of hard work, determination and commitment in MX. Good for you and you're justifiably very proud of your accomplishments. You've also successfully outlined the value of "sport" in general. I believe that individuals like yourself and Chris Hunter SHOULD BE the role models people look toward. Confident, focused and determined to succeed. I bet you're both happy to boot!

The larger point in the first post was focusing on AM racing with sole goal of succeeding in MX as a career is extremely speculative. It's a poor bet, a very poor bet. 99.9999% of people would be better served by enjoying the sport for the intangible benefits and character development at a level they can manage than enslaving themselves physically and financially to a sport/industry that has lost sight of this very paradigm.
RCC104
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1/13/2013 8:54am Edited Date/Time 1/13/2013 9:16am
WORCSRacer wrote:
It certainly appears that you found the benefit of hard work, determination and commitment in MX. Good for you and you're justifiably very proud of your...
It certainly appears that you found the benefit of hard work, determination and commitment in MX. Good for you and you're justifiably very proud of your accomplishments. You've also successfully outlined the value of "sport" in general. I believe that individuals like yourself and Chris Hunter SHOULD BE the role models people look toward. Confident, focused and determined to succeed. I bet you're both happy to boot!

The larger point in the first post was focusing on AM racing with sole goal of succeeding in MX as a career is extremely speculative. It's a poor bet, a very poor bet. 99.9999% of people would be better served by enjoying the sport for the intangible benefits and character development at a level they can manage than enslaving themselves physically and financially to a sport/industry that has lost sight of this very paradigm.
Yes, exactly.

I was never saying AM racing itself is a bad thing. It's the "dream," or should I say, "fantasy," that so many families have of making millions in pro racing. They blow 100s of thousands of dollars, with very low odds of getting a return on the investment.

There are awesome lessons to be learned from racing moto, ON ANY LEVEL. Not just a National AM level. I know for a fact Moto shaped me into who I am, and I was never a top guy, or a kid that even had much support from my parents, really. At a young age I had to learn how to make/save money, make a schedule, and network just so I could ride, much less make it to races. All those lessons and more in turn helped me while I was furthering my education, for sure.



------------

BTW... I'm glad this has been a fairly civilized debate. I knew it was likely going to be a touchy subject when I posted it and I know how things like that can go on here sometimes.
1/13/2013 9:16am
But where did and where does this "fantasy" begin for so many?

Its pretty simple really.........
Regis
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Fantasy
1/13/2013 9:21am Edited Date/Time 1/13/2013 9:22am
SuperMario wrote:
But where did and where does this "fantasy" begin for so many?

Its pretty simple really.........
from the moment they walk into a stadium with bright lights and 50,000 people cheering on guys jumping dirt bikes?


J/k

Parents introducing them to dirt bikes.
friday10
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1/13/2013 9:42am
Great posts and points of view! There are still some intelligent people here.
1/13/2013 9:47am
SuperMario wrote:
But where did and where does this "fantasy" begin for so many?

Its pretty simple really.........
Regis wrote:
from the moment they walk into a stadium with bright lights and 50,000 people cheering on guys jumping dirt bikes? J/k Parents introducing them to dirt...
from the moment they walk into a stadium with bright lights and 50,000 people cheering on guys jumping dirt bikes?


J/k

Parents introducing them to dirt bikes.
I had to beg for two plus years to race and my father only decided it was better then me ending up hanging out with the potheads at school

In my second year of racing I was winning races like crazy on minis and everyone tried to convince my father to drag my ass all the way acrossed the country for the National. He said to one crazed parent, "What if we drove all that way and the chain came off?" Sure enough that fathers kid had that very thing happen to him

I recall my father also saying "Racing is futile"

I'd have to say after pisseing away tons of money on it over the years, he was right. I just wish he was still alive so I could tell him that I should have listened to him, and I would have probably ended up owning a ton of farmland today that is worth way more then anyone ever dreamed possible just 30 years ago.

Kids and parents get the notion in their heads from magazines
thatdad
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1/13/2013 9:50am Edited Date/Time 1/13/2013 9:53am
It seems to many that this sport becomes wrong when someone else spends more than the complainer thinks is reasonable.

If a parent signs his kid up for little league but can't put food on the table, that would generally be considered a wrong decision . If Bill Gates used his money to buy his kid a couple of F1 race cars, hauler, trainer, etc, it is his business. Those who complain should engage in a sport they can afford.

The educational aspect is a completely seperate issue. If the parent doesn't care if the kid gets an education while involved in a sport, why would they care if the kid wasn't involved in a sport?
WORCSRacer
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1/13/2013 10:04am
thatdad wrote:
It seems to many that this sport becomes wrong when someone else spends more than the complainer thinks is reasonable. If a parent signs his kid...
It seems to many that this sport becomes wrong when someone else spends more than the complainer thinks is reasonable.

If a parent signs his kid up for little league but can't put food on the table, that would generally be considered a wrong decision . If Bill Gates used his money to buy his kid a couple of F1 race cars, hauler, trainer, etc, it is his business. Those who complain should engage in a sport they can afford.

The educational aspect is a completely seperate issue. If the parent doesn't care if the kid gets an education while involved in a sport, why would they care if the kid wasn't involved in a sport?
Here let me help you understand why unlimited spending in MX is bad.

The sport is sport. Sport should not be defined by an individuals ability to out spend another individual that's not sport, that's business.

I applaud financial success in fact I celebrate it. However I think it disgusting when used as a weapon to preclude competition and gain advantage in sport. I prefer sports that measure and test individuals or teams not credit limits.
thatdad
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1/13/2013 10:29am
WORCSRacer wrote:
Here let me help you understand why unlimited spending in MX is bad. The sport is sport. Sport should not be defined by an individuals ability...
Here let me help you understand why unlimited spending in MX is bad.

The sport is sport. Sport should not be defined by an individuals ability to out spend another individual that's not sport, that's business.

I applaud financial success in fact I celebrate it. However I think it disgusting when used as a weapon to preclude competition and gain advantage in sport. I prefer sports that measure and test individuals or teams not credit limits.
First, how many current pro's got there through Daddy's money? Ultimate success in this sport is a strange mix of heart and talent.

At the same time, it is impossible to deny the expense at any level of racing. I wouldn't let my kid ride in the back yard without safety equipment and a safe bike. You are already into the thousands and haven't figured out how to get to the races. That is beyond the budget of most. A typical local race weekend costs a couple of hundred bucks for mom, dad, and the kid to get in and race, travel, keep the bike in order, etc.

I was born a cheap son of a bitch and don't like pissing money away either, but this sport costs cash. As long as its your money, its yours to spend. Enjoy your time with your kid and keep it in perspective.
Adam43
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1/13/2013 10:59am
Statistically, college is a worthwhile choice. The difference in career earning potential for a graduate vs someone without a degree is significant. I wouldn't try to argue that someone couldn't learn just as much out of college, but degrees ARE a prerequisite for some of the most desirable careers.

It's laughable that some people consider college a waste of money, but throwing tens of thousands of dollars chasing moto glory is an acceptable investment.
thatdad
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1/13/2013 11:15am Edited Date/Time 1/13/2013 11:42am
Adam43 wrote:
Statistically, college is a worthwhile choice. The difference in career earning potential for a graduate vs someone without a degree is significant. I wouldn't try to...
Statistically, college is a worthwhile choice. The difference in career earning potential for a graduate vs someone without a degree is significant. I wouldn't try to argue that someone couldn't learn just as much out of college, but degrees ARE a prerequisite for some of the most desirable careers.

It's laughable that some people consider college a waste of money, but throwing tens of thousands of dollars chasing moto glory is an acceptable investment.
Not everything is an investment. There is an intangible "joy of living" or "you only go around once" component.

If I were to do all the right things with my kids, they would be concert pianists, study at private prep schools, not be mouthy, and have good table manners. Oh well. When they were younger, i remember all the parents at school telling me their kid is gifted. Now that they are teenagers we have different opinions and expectations.

My kids race and do their schoolwork, mostly because I ride their asses and they don't race if they don't do their school. Racing and schoolwork are not mutually exclusive.

Pick one kid you consider an uneducated motocrosser, and now imagine that same kid if he didn't race. Probably still uneducated just no bike.
Huckster
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1/13/2013 12:39pm
SuperMario wrote:
But where did and where does this "fantasy" begin for so many?

Its pretty simple really.........
Regis wrote:
from the moment they walk into a stadium with bright lights and 50,000 people cheering on guys jumping dirt bikes? J/k Parents introducing them to dirt...
from the moment they walk into a stadium with bright lights and 50,000 people cheering on guys jumping dirt bikes?


J/k

Parents introducing them to dirt bikes.
Regis just curious what do you do for a living now? Are you still involved in the industry?
Regis
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1/13/2013 12:52pm Edited Date/Time 1/13/2013 12:56pm
SuperMario wrote:
But where did and where does this "fantasy" begin for so many?

Its pretty simple really.........
Regis wrote:
from the moment they walk into a stadium with bright lights and 50,000 people cheering on guys jumping dirt bikes? J/k Parents introducing them to dirt...
from the moment they walk into a stadium with bright lights and 50,000 people cheering on guys jumping dirt bikes?


J/k

Parents introducing them to dirt bikes.
Huckster wrote:
Regis just curious what do you do for a living now? Are you still involved in the industry?
I am not directly involved with the industry anymore. When I stopped riding professionally I immediately got a job and worked in it for a few years. It payed the bills and gave me a steady platform to re-asses and figure out plan b. However up until recently I was a head judge on the red bull X-fighters and for now, still head judge for X games freestyle and best trick.

The best job I had after racing was with Carter Collision, outside of the industry, but I got the job because of my friendships I made in it.


Now, I do stunts in feature films, TV and commercials. It wasn't an easy industry to get into and took some time before I bit the bullet and went all in.

Thankfully, my motorcycle background got my foot in the door. As a motorcycle specialist, I was able to get hired on some big shows and then be around to learn some of the other stuff like fights, falls, fire burns, etc etc...

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1571691/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1
1/13/2013 1:19pm
i agree 110%. growing up racing there are always those parents that think their kid is gonna be the next carmichael, and half of them arent even racing anymore.

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