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Which has more measurable success in keeping riding areas open, quiet bikes or getting people involved in protecting our rights to ride?
For me, what I "Get" is that although the two are not exclusive of each other, if I had to pick, I'd pick organizing and pro-actively going after our rights every time over chasing the dream that somehow we can have bikes that are quiet enough to keep riding areas open.
Anyways, I admire your passion Rock and we agree that quiet bikes help. It's just that I have moved a little beyond that single issue.
Good luck!
BTW - Look up the following if you want to know where I spend my time, energy and money:
http://www.sharetrails.org/
http://www.corva.org/
http://www.nora-usa.com/
http://www.otbmbc.com/
I don't recall saying or reading anyone ever said any one thing is enough but I do recall saying
Quiet bikes are not the panacea to all of our problems
Quiet bikes are not the panacea to all of our problems
Quiet bikes are not the panacea to all of our problems
"For sure it is only a coincidence we lost more tracks after the four strokes arrived.....pure coincidence I tell ya"
"I had a leading sound guy tell me his take is when people hear dirt bikes when they are enjoying the great outdoors the noise subconsciously reminds them of being startled by a motorcycles splitting lanes with the end result being negative feelings towards off roaders."
"Not sure about that but I do know I've had the bejeezus scared out of me by street bikers blasting by me either lane splitting at stop lights on on the freeway in traffic. it will be a beautiful day when straight pipe on street bikes are a memory."
"By the time we will be riding electric bikes your political change program will still be searching for traction. If some influential people in this sport don't think there is a noise problem how in the world do you think a political solution is going to change things?"
"I bet whoever thought up less sound equals more ground had no idea what a difficult concept this would be to grasp in the 21ast century."
And my favorite:
"Best of luck luck with your political change "we have rights!" program. That's a sure fire fix to our track issues if I've ever heard one."
For a guy who can only point to a single post, "Quiet bikes are not the panacea to all of our problems" and claiming you "Get it" you sure do spend a lot of time banging that drum about how we need quiet bikes. Not only that, but you seem to have a propensity to tear down the ideas of people who offer an alternative point of view (You may want to re-read your last quote from above)
Give it up Rock. Ya dug a hole and all ya got is "Quiet bikes are not the panacea to all of our problems" I am glad we agree on two things now.
So answer the question: - Which one has more measurable success in keeping riding areas open, quiet bikes or getting people involved in protecting our rights to ride?
The four stroke noise isn't nearly as bad as it was five or six years ago and bikes are getting quieter every year. The perception by the general public of dirt bike riders being hooligans is IMO the bigger issue. In most areas the people who make the rules identify with things like skiing, golf, cycling, baseball etc but certainly not moto. I think the reason SoCal has so many excellent tracks (Starwest above) is because of the sheer number of riders here. We actually have political clout. Even the chief of police (LAPD), Charley Beck, races moto...
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Rock, put down the pipe. This sport is suffering and I'm sure the noise is part of the problem, but it is the cost that has gotten completely out of hand.....and most tracks seem to close because of insurance problems. Greedy lawyers.
So answer the question: - Which one has more measurable success in keeping riding areas open, quiet bikes or getting people involved in protecting our rights to ride?
So what exactly is "measurable success? anyway?" AMA member increases, tracks remaining open, BRC member increases? What exactly is being measured and how are you collecting this data? Personal impressions aren't the same as facts.
I'm also not aware of any one person or any groups lobbying for lower sound levels or anyone calling for sound testing for that matter. Are you?
I've had plenty of experience dealing with straw man arguments like yours and is why I am asking you for clarification. For the record I was actually looking forward to you defining the metrics your question was based on.
You can forget the last question if you like as nobody else hasn't been able to answer that either RE: Are you aware of any one person or any groups lobbying for lower sound levels or anyone calling for sound testing for that matter?
Fact is no one wants lower sound limits and no one is calling for more sound testing.
Let Us Ride
Our Mission
Published on September 19, 2012 in About the Cause
Most of us who have had private motocross tracks on our property at some time or another have had to deal with issues with county or state agencies, usually arising from neighbors that are unhappy with the sound that our motocross bikes emit. Most times due to the extreme cost of a legal defense, many people decide to stop riding on their own property.
Let Us Ride, Inc. is a nonprofit organization and our mission is to work directly with individual land-owners on a case-by-case basis that have a legitimate right to have private motocross tracks on their property. We support them in their fight against local county and state agencies that are trying to take this right away.
If you are in support of our cause, please sign our petition so that we may use it to help defend the right to ride. Thank you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHSwFMr5DIE&list=UUeFwB_1XdLwl2DVUOg_4gq…
I had a chance to drive through perris CA a few years ago. What a craphole.
1. why move within a mile of a motocross facility then complain about the sound?
2. If you dont want noise, move to a area of that kind of people?
Now here is a problem that happend back in 03... (To this day, im still pissed abut it)
Fairplex mx, which was on pomona fairgrounds had opened up in like september. was superclose to ride, like a godsend at the time.
anyway we all had to pass a sound test in order to ride the track, which we did. (Some of you guys may have ridden there)
i believe the bikes had to be under 102 db on the reader, otherwise you had to go home.
Now, everything was cool for about 2 months, i believe and then the neighbors started complaining about sound to the local politicians... But i was told they were on our side etc, as they had given the green light on the track.
anyhoo, flash forward to january of 04 there was a pretty bad rain, for a couple of days and the track was shutdown.. (NO RIDING AT ALL)..On this week of no riding due to rain, the neighbors were all complaining of sound from the track!!! It was total bullshit and to top it off they got caught in the lie, by the city.. But they got there way, and shut the whole thing down.
maybe somebody else has some info on that situation.. But I think people just dont like motorcycles/ motocross specifically and try any way possible to stop us.
city officials.. were the asshats who were listening to the neighbors...
Both organizations instituted noise testing and mandated such things as stock mufflers only and in both cases that wasn't enough for the supermoto/super singles classes that required the use of items like the dbdawg to further lower sound. Big four stroke singles are louder than a 600cc inline four on the pipe and the noise carries further due to the additional bass.
Once we as an organization put these new rules into effect, the complaints went away. One track had a problem neighbor who definitely had a bug up her ass about motorcycles in general. She feared our road racing club would lead to prostitution in her rural area, so it was obvious it wasn't just noise for her, but it reduced the complaints by a ton. Also by showing we were working with the community, we managed to get the city councils on to our side. The threats of shutdown ceased, the track owners were happy, the city council was happy and the neighbors were happy as well.
The problem bitch wound up taking the one track to court over something to do with water runoff and it took a judge and a counter suit to put her in her place. When the judge saw how we worked with the community to reduced the complaints and with her rant about all motorcyclists are bikers and gang members he was easily on our side. He saw that we were willing to compromise and that she simply would not. At that point, she became the problem within the community and not us.
If you don't think you need to help find and be part of a solution to protecting our existing tracks and riding areas, you're doing as much damage as the Sierra Club is in helping to reduce our options. Being an obstinate prick in the face of complaints doesn't win friends and isn't fighting for your rights. It's ignoring a problem and creating animosity with neighbors who will only elevate their level of complaints when they are ignored or insulted for bringing them forward.
City councils and the court system do see tracks as something that disturbs the peace of the surrounding area. They also see them as something that brings revenue into the area as well. If you're reasonable and you show that you're a responsible member of the community that is willing to work with them to reduce complaints it's easy to get them on your side.
My wife bought my 14 year old stepdaughter an XBox for Christmas. The girl already has a gaming computer, Ipad, and a smart phone and spends way too much time indoors.
I suggested a Bicycle so she could have a bit of freedom around the hood, see friends, ride at one of the many parks, and just get out more. But ultimately the XBox won out. Although my wife 100% agreed with me, watching the news every night and checking sexual predator websites has her terrified (to be fair, that did happen to her as a child) and has put her in a position where she doesn't want her running around outside at all, in a nice neighborhood btw.
Someone who gets it! Noise is often used as the excuse, but quieter bikes in and of themselves will never be enough. Working within the system, showing you are making a reasonable effort to appease noise concerns, using facts to show how the community benefits (Tax revenues, recreational outlet for families, putting real numbers on the revenue that will be generated from money spent by people traveling to track etc) combined with proactively using laws to PROTECT our rights (Yes, we have rights too!!!) and demonstrating some political clout is how we will save tracks and riding areas.
If you think 10 less db is going to save your track or favorite riding area and all you have to do is instal a silencer that makes your bike quieter - good luck and say good by to your track....
Pit Row
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