MXA: Jody’s Manifesto Of An Unrepentant Two-Stroke Aficionado

bigborefan
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12/30/2012 7:41pm
As far as 4T vs 2T, I have owned both, and I think both have a place in the sport.

I think for me and my riding style, a years racing on either would be close cost wise. I am not a revver and I am easy on my bikes. Barring a blown motor, I think the cost is close for me anyway.

I ride off road, so for me, i prefer a 2T on a tight technical course and a 4T on a faster more open trail.

Now, a 400CC 2T would be something to look at IMO.
newmann
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12/30/2012 8:59pm Edited Date/Time 12/30/2012 9:00pm
bigborefan wrote:
I agree with everything Newmann has posed so far...

except his fight with Lone Wolf, I have no insight into that issue, so no opinion.
Insight.

http://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/MXA-HUSQVARNA-FOCUSES-ON-…

He even went back and edited most of his posts to try and cover his tracks a little without looking too obvious.Laughing It's funny really, some of the four stroke lovers are just as bad, and some even worse than us two stroke afficianados. Even when an insider like Matthes pokes his head in here and tells them off road bike sales are down a full 70% from ten years ago (when 4 strokes were just coming on strong) some of them still refuse to admit the oem's screwed the goose that lays the golden eggs. Killing off the 125 and claiming the 250F as the official replacement did more damage to this sport than anything else as far as I am concerned. My opinion though. Love me some high revving tiddler action.



chump6784
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12/30/2012 8:59pm
It seems people here are comparing 250 2 strokes to 450 4 strokes in terms of maintenance. I thought it was only the pro series that runs those rules, we should be comparing cc vs cc for 99% of this board
gotwings
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12/30/2012 9:07pm
Looked up "aficionado" in the international dictionary, and turns out it's a Portuguese word meaning "One with head so far up one's own rear end they have no idea what's really happening".

The Shop

newmann
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12/30/2012 9:08pm
gotwings wrote:
Looked up "aficionado" in the international dictionary, and turns out it's a Portuguese word meaning "One with head so far up one's own rear end they...
Looked up "aficionado" in the international dictionary, and turns out it's a Portuguese word meaning "One with head so far up one's own rear end they have no idea what's really happening".
Smile
mxb2
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12/30/2012 9:09pm
bigborefan wrote:
I agree with everything Newmann has posed so far...

except his fight with Lone Wolf, I have no insight into that issue, so no opinion.
newmann wrote:
Insight. http://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/MXA-HUSQVARNA-FOCUSES-ON-THE-TWO-STROKE,1247813?page=1 He even went back and edited most of his posts to try and cover his tracks a little without looking too obvious.:laugh: It's funny...
Insight.

http://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/MXA-HUSQVARNA-FOCUSES-ON-…

He even went back and edited most of his posts to try and cover his tracks a little without looking too obvious.Laughing It's funny really, some of the four stroke lovers are just as bad, and some even worse than us two stroke afficianados. Even when an insider like Matthes pokes his head in here and tells them off road bike sales are down a full 70% from ten years ago (when 4 strokes were just coming on strong) some of them still refuse to admit the oem's screwed the goose that lays the golden eggs. Killing off the 125 and claiming the 250F as the official replacement did more damage to this sport than anything else as far as I am concerned. My opinion though. Love me some high revving tiddler action.



Nice silver wheel Wink Wink Wink Wink Wink
newmann
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12/30/2012 9:13pm
bigborefan wrote:
I agree with everything Newmann has posed so far...

except his fight with Lone Wolf, I have no insight into that issue, so no opinion.
newmann wrote:
Insight. http://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/MXA-HUSQVARNA-FOCUSES-ON-THE-TWO-STROKE,1247813?page=1 He even went back and edited most of his posts to try and cover his tracks a little without looking too obvious.:laugh: It's funny...
Insight.

http://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/MXA-HUSQVARNA-FOCUSES-ON-…

He even went back and edited most of his posts to try and cover his tracks a little without looking too obvious.Laughing It's funny really, some of the four stroke lovers are just as bad, and some even worse than us two stroke afficianados. Even when an insider like Matthes pokes his head in here and tells them off road bike sales are down a full 70% from ten years ago (when 4 strokes were just coming on strong) some of them still refuse to admit the oem's screwed the goose that lays the golden eggs. Killing off the 125 and claiming the 250F as the official replacement did more damage to this sport than anything else as far as I am concerned. My opinion though. Love me some high revving tiddler action.



mxb2 wrote:
Nice silver wheel Wink Wink Wink Wink Wink
Soon to be two of them! Did I mention I suck at installing tires? Laughing
mxb2
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12/30/2012 9:17pm
yesir you did,hence my remark lol.
SwapperMX
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12/30/2012 9:19pm
Bike looks awesome Newmann. All this two stroke talk puts a new kato 250 two banger at the top of my shopping list.
three9zero
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12/30/2012 9:44pm Edited Date/Time 12/30/2012 9:46pm
As a KTM, Yammy, Suzy and Kawi dealer I can tell you the best selling performance dirt bikes so far this season. My shop is in an area that the economy is rocking and we have a world class motocross track right inside city limits(across the street from our shop) that sells seasons passes for $ 500 a year and its open to anybody 6 days a week weather permitting...
#1. KTM 300 xc
#2. KTM 300xcw
#3. KTM 250 sx
#4. KTM 350 sxf
#5. YZ 250
#7.KTM 250 xc
#8 KX 250f
#9 KX450f
***RMZ 250's have been poplular this season too...we just got them 2 weeks ago and have sold 3.....
Until we drop the price of the Japan bikes, the KTMs sell more than all 3 Jap brands combined, Kawi now leads the way in Jap stuff,and it's what I currently ride......
My next bike will be a 150 sx BTW
newmann
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12/30/2012 10:03pm
three9zero wrote:
As a KTM, Yammy, Suzy and Kawi dealer I can tell you the best selling performance dirt bikes so far this season. My shop is in...
As a KTM, Yammy, Suzy and Kawi dealer I can tell you the best selling performance dirt bikes so far this season. My shop is in an area that the economy is rocking and we have a world class motocross track right inside city limits(across the street from our shop) that sells seasons passes for $ 500 a year and its open to anybody 6 days a week weather permitting...
#1. KTM 300 xc
#2. KTM 300xcw
#3. KTM 250 sx
#4. KTM 350 sxf
#5. YZ 250
#7.KTM 250 xc
#8 KX 250f
#9 KX450f
***RMZ 250's have been poplular this season too...we just got them 2 weeks ago and have sold 3.....
Until we drop the price of the Japan bikes, the KTMs sell more than all 3 Jap brands combined, Kawi now leads the way in Jap stuff,and it's what I currently ride......
My next bike will be a 150 sx BTW
Don't be introducing facts around here now buddy.....Smile
Aaryn234
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12/30/2012 10:18pm Edited Date/Time 12/30/2012 10:20pm
125 wrote: "I am not trying to be a jerk, I am just illustrating the fact that someone who gets 100 hours out of a piston really has ZERO point of reference in a debate between these two engines. "

Really, you think that the average rider out there, the C grade rider and rec riders have ZERO point of reference in the debate about two and four stroke bikes ? Your serious about that.

The actual demographic that purchases the majority of bikes?

For the average bloke a four stroke is easier to ride than a two stroke. For the average bloke changing oil once or twice a month and filling up with fuel straight from the bowser is easier than pre mixing two stroke on the go, every time you ride.

As you agree with for the average person, C grader and Rec rider 100 hours would be achievable from either.

These are the target for the manufactures, Pro Racers and Top Amateur racers will ride what ever they have to, to be competitive and the bikes they race as still in a lot of regards, worlds away from what we purchase and are ridden at the limit. They have no care for how long an engine lasts, it is not their concern.

The guys who the cc V cc two V four debate really affects is the fast amateur with no support and probably a lot of B grade Amature racers. That is the demographic where the 250F really hurts people, not so much a 450, I would be surprised if there were many B rider who could ride a 450 at the rev limit for long!

But then again can you not ride a 250 two stroke against 250Fs in Amateur racing in the U.S ? So really the whole debate is a waste of time.

Two strokes and four strokes can both be purchased both new and used, they can be ridden and raced against each other in every class of racing apart from AMA Pro.

Sure some manufactures do not build them any more, but hey, pick another color and move on.

Ride what you want.

I have an orange 350 Four Stroke and a Yellow 250F, thinking myself of selling up the 250F and getting a 125 or 250 two stroke, type of bike I ride does not bother me as long as I am having fun.
exsarg
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12/30/2012 10:37pm Edited Date/Time 12/30/2012 11:35pm
i think my post may hav been deleted. i was a little harsh on matthes but ive seen much worse. must be cuz hes a celebrity . or i swore to much. sorry for offending the good peiople here at vital. sarcasm intended. any ways i gotta say it again matthes kisses all insiders bums, have any of you listened to his podcasts. he sound like a 15 year old girl talking to bon jovi in 88. its sickenng and to hav him call down jody and the best mag mxa. is baloney. and his insights on the 2 strk issue are wrong. hes wearing blinders. he only sees the situation in pro racing. he doesnt give a poop about any thing else. fatthes are u against simple rule changes like allowin a ktm 150 in the ama nats? or a 300 2strk in the 450 classin the nats?. or a 125 clas s for the fastest young dudes in the country a support class at the nats? less prep. dont till so deep. make it more 2strk friendly these are ll siimple requests. it wont happen because of the manufactures, it similar to special interst groups lobbying the feds, i dont care what anyone says.matthes is dc's testicle handler and dc will never suggest or truly put an effort in to changes until honda puts out a 2strkagain, stamp it. this is not a knock on dc. hes a smart buisness guy. however i dont like the guy because hes lying and bullshitting the public. pull it you nazzi. u truly come across as a condescending pompous ass. in fact kick me right off. anyone else agree on guy b, speak up. dont be scared. its great to vent on useless frivolous shit!!
APLMAN99
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12/30/2012 10:38pm
twosmoke30 wrote:
http://motocrossactionmag.com/Main/News/JODYS-MANIFESTO-OF-AN-UNREPENTANT-TWOSTROKE-AFICIO-7970.aspx to DC [b](7) What’s fair? How about a 250cc class that is open to 250cc machinery regardless of its engine type. The four-stroke only got...
http://motocrossactionmag.com/Main/News/JODYS-MANIFESTO-OF-AN-UNREPENTA…

to DC

(7) What’s fair? How about a 250cc class that is open to 250cc machinery regardless of its engine type. The four-stroke only got where it is today because someone wrote a rule in 1997 that allowed to be bigger. That same someone could could write a new rule in 2013 that would make the advantage go away.
Matthes wrote:
Revisionist history for sure, he wasn't always for the two-stroke like he says. Anyone have a copy of MXA's back when he was telling everyone to...
Revisionist history for sure, he wasn't always for the two-stroke like he says. Anyone have a copy of MXA's back when he was telling everyone to buy one, they're the greatest thing ever, they won shoot-outs. MXA has a part to blame for the increased sales because they were telling everyone to buy one.

If you change the rule and some guys get on two-strokes and win races, what are you going to tell Suzuki, Kawasaki and Honda who spend millions of dollars racing your series and don't have a bike to compete with?

Sorry guys? Thanks for the support but now we've made it so you're going to be at a competitive disadvantage. They'll just go home.

Blame the AMA back in the day for making the ridiculous displacement rules and then being slow to change them. Blame all the dudes who paid full pop for thumpers and then when they all flew out the door, blame the OEM's for giving consumers what they want. Just don't blame the people in power now because this horse has left the barn.
I'm not sure I'd call it revisionist. I thought they were very clear from the introduction of the production YZ400F that the displacement difference gave it many advantages over a "standard" 250. They also complained about the extra weight and maintenance issues very early on, too.....
Derpin' DJ
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12/30/2012 10:48pm
Absolutely nothing new is discussed in this thread. Just the same old bullshit
exsarg
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12/30/2012 11:23pm
Derpin' DJ wrote:
Absolutely nothing new is discussed in this thread. Just the same old bullshit
its quite simple. buy. race. modify our 2 sstrk and race it. who gives a shit if urcheating. shut your mouth you wont get caught. were not racing the nats or lorrettas so no one will give a fuck. if ur pissed becuse your local club is handicapping you on the 125. be real. who cares if u get pulled on the start. your lap times if u have any skills at all will be the same no matter what ur on. pass the fs in the corners or the ruts or the bumps. this is a non issue for anyone unless you wont ride any thing but a honda or a brand new bike. ya it sucks that other then a few exceptions that technology is not being used on smokers, come on man it doesnt make a difference to anyone but a national level pro. if u like one buy it. this shit is getting old. sounds like a bunch of winy old broads when their soap opera gets cancelled.
VET176
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12/30/2012 11:26pm
VET176 wrote:
So much censorship going here. Such a shame. We must be getting closer to the truth huh? Whistling
GuyB wrote:
I think the only stuff clipped out of here was one person who thought juvenile name-calling was the best way to get his point across. What...
I think the only stuff clipped out of here was one person who thought juvenile name-calling was the best way to get his point across.

What version of the truth are you talking about? The real one? Or the one that would make you happy?
You left the original dig in the thread but cut the well deserved response. Are you protecting your industry buddy?
GuyB
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12/30/2012 11:31pm
VET176 wrote:
You left the original dig in the thread but cut the well deserved response. Are you protecting your industry buddy?
Hey, have you got a second?
DrSweden
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12/31/2012 5:17am Edited Date/Time 12/31/2012 5:19am
Strange thread. Equal displacement would make racing more interesting for both fans and riders, I claim this is the truth, and therefor to some extent it would benefit racing, maybe increase spectators? cash flow? But it wont happen because of fear within the industry?

Did that sum this BS up?

Meanwhile average Joe goes to track with whatever, but maybe with a lesser feeling he's connected to racing, which kind of makes weekend riding/racing a bit less as an experience?

Something is fucked up, and nothing points in a sane direction (for me at least)...
scooter5002
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12/31/2012 6:50am
three9zero wrote:
As a KTM, Yammy, Suzy and Kawi dealer I can tell you the best selling performance dirt bikes so far this season. My shop is in...
As a KTM, Yammy, Suzy and Kawi dealer I can tell you the best selling performance dirt bikes so far this season. My shop is in an area that the economy is rocking and we have a world class motocross track right inside city limits(across the street from our shop) that sells seasons passes for $ 500 a year and its open to anybody 6 days a week weather permitting...
#1. KTM 300 xc
#2. KTM 300xcw
#3. KTM 250 sx
#4. KTM 350 sxf
#5. YZ 250
#7.KTM 250 xc
#8 KX 250f
#9 KX450f
***RMZ 250's have been poplular this season too...we just got them 2 weeks ago and have sold 3.....
Until we drop the price of the Japan bikes, the KTMs sell more than all 3 Jap brands combined, Kawi now leads the way in Jap stuff,and it's what I currently ride......
My next bike will be a 150 sx BTW
So you work at Blackfoot. IS Ron still working in Sales? Wiry guy under 6', fairly fast on a bike. Knew him years ago when I lived in Calgary. Proud member of Team Head right here. Lol




Kerry Hook. Man could that guy fly a bike with style. Fearless. The more cold beer and pizza he ate during the day, the harder it was to catch him. Lol.








The goon in pursuit on my shiny new 94.
12/31/2012 8:49am Edited Date/Time 12/31/2012 8:52am
How in the hell can an entire industry let a small little low resource island in the Pacific control our entire sporting future?

How stupid does that shit sound NOW?

Screw the production rule and replace if with a production% rule. Your homologation number should be based on a percentage of your sales not a flat rate at 500 (or is it 400?). That away manufacturers like TM, Aprilia, Husqvarna, Gas Gas, Husaberg, Beta and others can meet a realistic homologation number and still race. That would allow production of two strokes in smaller numbers also meaning the Japanese won't have to make HUGE productions runs on them. Of course, they will if they sell like hot cakes.
125
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12/31/2012 8:52am
The problem is Japan, they've got us all fighting amongst ourselves.
scooter5002
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12/31/2012 9:13am
Revenge for Midway 42 and everything after. Oh, those crafty Japanese.




Anyone ever notice they never made a smaller casing with a bigger bang, or is it just me?
125
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12/31/2012 9:29am
Revenge for Midway 42 and everything after. Oh, those crafty Japanese. [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2012/12/31/hiroshima_437725.jpg[/img] Anyone ever notice they never made a smaller casing with a bigger bang, or...
Revenge for Midway 42 and everything after. Oh, those crafty Japanese.




Anyone ever notice they never made a smaller casing with a bigger bang, or is it just me?
Nah, they are just not capitalists. But whatever. If the current trend continues, we will all be riding Korean Hyosungs in 15 years. Korea is the new Japan.

They are already putting a little dent in the road bike market, and support racing.



sounds crazy, but it sounded crazy when a "piano manufacturer" in Japan made an MX bike to compete with the European brands. Hell, the first Suzuki MX bike was a CZ clone. It just takes your average motocross redneck a little longer to adapt to change.
scooter5002
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12/31/2012 9:39am
The Japanese have stated the Koreans are the ones they fear will take their place in the auto market. Their quality has gone through the roof on their car lines. Bikes won't be far behind.
I rented and an Elantra 3 years ago, and I was impressed. Good solid car and drove nicely. Went like like a bat out hell too. Not that I EVER had it over the speed limit. Wink Laughing Hey, what did I care. It was a rental.
125
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12/31/2012 9:44am
The Japanese have stated the Koreans are the ones they fear will take their place in the auto market. Their quality has gone through the roof...
The Japanese have stated the Koreans are the ones they fear will take their place in the auto market. Their quality has gone through the roof on their car lines. Bikes won't be far behind.
I rented and an Elantra 3 years ago, and I was impressed. Good solid car and drove nicely. Went like like a bat out hell too. Not that I EVER had it over the speed limit. Wink Laughing Hey, what did I care. It was a rental.
the screen on your computer is from korea, your phone is probably from korea, too. It's coming. It's the 70s all over again, as far as Asia is concerned, but this time its Korea trying to gain a foothold in the U.S., using their exchange rate as their tool.


seen the hyundai genesis? rear wheel drive, 6 speed, leather, brembo brakes, turbo, 250+hp for under 25K.




Someone post the "meanwhile in Japan" photo...
malachi177
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12/31/2012 10:20am
The homologation rule is the stupidest thing ever. Get rid of it. I know it was put in place to stop one off factory bikes...but I'm talking amatuer racing.
Lone Wolf
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12/31/2012 2:52pm
newmann wrote:
Yeah, the one where you couldn't dig up anything to support the shit you were spewing.
That is not how I viewed it. I pulled the pin because I couldn't be bothered and didn't really care more than anything else. To be fair, you are more of a "two stroke promoter" than a "four stroke hater," although that can be a fine line. I will acknowledge that I wrote a few things in that thread that were exaggerated and perhaps a little off base, but I stand by the general points I was trying to convey.

From what I remember, I edited two posts after you had responded. I changed "so many" to "several" in one, and I removed the word "all" from another. I was not trying to cover my tracks, but simply trying to make my point clearer, because you had misinterpreted what I meant.

I am not a "four stroke lover" by any means. I have gone back and forth between two and four strokes a few times and accept that both bikes have their own strengths and weaknesses. I also think they each have a place in the sport, at least at the amateur level. I have stated before that I support most of your two stroke philosophies. I just feel that a lot of the negativity people express towards four strokes on this board is unwarranted and a lot of the time untrue.

Arguing over the Internet is stupid, so I think we should put this little pissing contest to bed. As I said in that other thread, we have both made our points. We are never going to change each other’s mind, so should agree to disagree and move on.
Lone Wolf
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12/31/2012 2:59pm
Perhaps others know something I don't, but the suggestion that the "industry" (including Matthes, GuyB and the Japanese manufacturers) is wrapped up in some grand conspiracy against two strokes just seems utterly crazy to me.

I think some need to remember that Kawasaki, Suzuki and Honda are running businesses, not services to the sport of motocross. I understand why some think these manufacturers are shooting themselves (and the sport) in the foot long term (and I agree with this myself to a certain extent), but they all continued to produce two strokes after releasing their four stroke models. After a few years they stopped, which I can only assume was because they were not selling and it didn't make financial sense to continue. Maybe it is time they re-evaluated this decision, but, personally, I do not really know.

I often feel that the “general tone” of the board makes out the entire motocross community hates four strokes and ride them only because they are all that is available and because it is necessary to be competitive under the current rule structure. I realise some feel this way, but when I am at the track, at least, it seems most are happy with the bike they have elected to ride and have few complaints. Maybe I am wrong, but I would guess that is the case throughout the motocross community at large.
WORCSRacer
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12/31/2012 3:39pm Edited Date/Time 12/31/2012 7:33pm
I don't think it's a conspiracy as much as they are afraid to bite the hand that feeds them. I just think it's unfortunate that because of their close association with Pro moto for access and content you won't see a critical response or opinion out of them. Jody couldn't care less.

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