It's not the guns...

bartziokas123 12/15/2012 7:58am
12/15/2012 7:58am
XXVoid MainXX wrote:
We don't "need" a lot of things. Should those things be banned just because we don't "need" them? I don't "need" a dirt bike and kids...
We don't "need" a lot of things. Should those things be banned just because we don't "need" them? I don't "need" a dirt bike and kids have gotten killed on dirt bikes. Should they be banned? Just because you don't get enjoyment out of a hobby that someone else does isn't a reason to go banning it. God I hate it when people try to control how other people live their lives. I don't have a single gun but if Mr X gets enjoyment out of owning and shooting an AR-15, more power to him. "Murder" is already illegal, regardless of the instrument used to commit the murder.
Everything has its place, just cause you want a tank as a hobby doesn't make it right. There is no reasoning with you. No body say's ban guns. Restrict them. If buddy wants a riffle to go hunt, or a hand gun to make him feel safe in his home fine, but its bullshit to say he has a right to own a AR-15
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BR_HERO 12/15/2012 8:03am
12/15/2012 8:03am Edited Date/Time 12/15/2012 8:06am
Here's how i look at it. I bet you that if any of those young kids parents were gun owners, that their whole view on the world/guns and the culture, completely changed when they got that phone call yesterday morning. (And not for the better obviously)

For those of you who have kids and own weapons. How would you feel about guns if that was your 5 y//o girl in that school? Or your wife out christmas shopping (like the people in Oregon)? Or your teenage kids out to see a movie (Aurora,CO)? Would you still feel the same about guns if it was your daughter/wife/son/brother/mother/father/sister?

I personally think that guns are a part of the problem. We need gun control, an assault weapons ban, and more regulation.
bartziokas123 12/15/2012 8:06am
12/15/2012 8:06am
BR_HERO wrote:
Here's how i look at it. I bet you that if any of those young kids parents were gun owners, that their whole view on the...
Here's how i look at it. I bet you that if any of those young kids parents were gun owners, that their whole view on the world/guns and the culture, completely changed when they got that phone call yesterday morning. (And not for the better obviously)

For those of you who have kids and own weapons. How would you feel about guns if that was your 5 y//o girl in that school? Or your wife out christmas shopping (like the people in Oregon)? Or your teenage kids out to see a movie (Aurora,CO)? Would you still feel the same about guns if it was your daughter/wife/son/brother/mother/father/sister?

I personally think that guns are a part of the problem. We need gun control, an assault weapons ban, and more regulation.
Thank you. It's nice to know there are still sane people out there. I wish more people in your country could see it as clearly as you do.
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MR. X 12/15/2012 8:23am
12/15/2012 8:23am Edited Date/Time 12/15/2012 8:28am
Who the fuck are you to tell me what i have the right to own or not own .Another thing you fucking smart ass , i hunt coyotes with my AR . Anything else you think you are the fucking authority on .Just the fact that you singled out the AR as such a bad rifle ,tells me that you know nothing about firearms and you are brainwashed by the media . There is alot more powerful rifles on the market than the .223 . Turn off the news once in awhile and find out shit for yourself before you go telling people what their right should include.

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JW381
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JW381 12/15/2012 8:48am
12/15/2012 8:48am
MR. X wrote:
Never said it was tragic ,but it was the same time i waited for my AR-15. I blame the people doing the background searches. Can we...
Never said it was tragic ,but it was the same time i waited for my AR-15. I blame the people doing the background searches. Can we pick this argument up later? I just don't want to continue this so soon , i would rather keep quiet for now and let the story unfold and think of the people who have had their lives ruined by this tragedy . I have already gotten into it too much as it .
bartziokas123 wrote:
I don't think we can pick this up later because the fact that you even own a AR-15 is the problem. No one should own a...
I don't think we can pick this up later because the fact that you even own a AR-15 is the problem. No one should own a gun like that. There's no real reason that anyone outside of the army should have access to a gun like that. What are you Scareface. protecting your drug stash. Seriously what do you need a gun like that for, your not hunting with it.
XXVoid MainXX wrote:
We don't "need" a lot of things. Should those things be banned just because we don't "need" them? I don't "need" a dirt bike and kids...
We don't "need" a lot of things. Should those things be banned just because we don't "need" them? I don't "need" a dirt bike and kids have gotten killed on dirt bikes. Should they be banned? Just because you don't get enjoyment out of a hobby that someone else does isn't a reason to go banning it. God I hate it when people try to control how other people live their lives. I don't have a single gun but if Mr X gets enjoyment out of owning and shooting an AR-15, more power to him. "Murder" is already illegal, regardless of the instrument used to commit the murder.
The difference between your dirtbike and his AR is that if some mentally unstable dude steals your dirtbike, some poor innocent people are more than likely going to be alive the next day. Not necessarily a certainty if his AR falls into the wrong hands. Or what if MR. X himself loses his mind? Do they do background checks after you own an AR? I could be perfectly sane when I buy it, but after some hard times, losses in my family, some dangerous anti-depressants, all of the sudden I'm not so stable. The only way to keep weapons out of the hands of deadly people is to limit the access to weapons. If we can someday rebuild our society and don't have to fear so many crazies, then we can revisit free access to guns.
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BR_HERO 12/15/2012 8:50am
12/15/2012 8:50am
MR. X wrote:
Who the fuck are you to tell me what i have the right to own or not own .Another thing you fucking smart ass , i...
Who the fuck are you to tell me what i have the right to own or not own .Another thing you fucking smart ass , i hunt coyotes with my AR . Anything else you think you are the fucking authority on .Just the fact that you singled out the AR as such a bad rifle ,tells me that you know nothing about firearms and you are brainwashed by the media . There is alot more powerful rifles on the market than the .223 . Turn off the news once in awhile and find out shit for yourself before you go telling people what their right should include.
I'am not brainwashed by the media, i just have common sense.

You don;'t need an AR to hunt. Any single/bolt action rifle will do. Unless you're that bad of a shot that you need a semi-automatic weapon with a 30 round p-mag to squeeze off on a coyote.
JW381
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JW381 12/15/2012 8:53am
12/15/2012 8:53am
BR_HERO wrote:
Here's how i look at it. I bet you that if any of those young kids parents were gun owners, that their whole view on the...
Here's how i look at it. I bet you that if any of those young kids parents were gun owners, that their whole view on the world/guns and the culture, completely changed when they got that phone call yesterday morning. (And not for the better obviously)

For those of you who have kids and own weapons. How would you feel about guns if that was your 5 y//o girl in that school? Or your wife out christmas shopping (like the people in Oregon)? Or your teenage kids out to see a movie (Aurora,CO)? Would you still feel the same about guns if it was your daughter/wife/son/brother/mother/father/sister?

I personally think that guns are a part of the problem. We need gun control, an assault weapons ban, and more regulation.
Very well put. On top of gun control, assault weapons ban, and more regulation, we need to look at the other damages to our society that are causing these people to commit these acts. Drugs, lack of family, music and tv messages, whatever it may be, we need to look into what it is and try to help the American mentality.
JW381
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JW381 12/15/2012 8:54am
12/15/2012 8:54am
BR_HERO wrote:
I'am not brainwashed by the media, i just have common sense. You don;'t need an AR to hunt. Any single/bolt action rifle will do. Unless you're...
I'am not brainwashed by the media, i just have common sense.

You don;'t need an AR to hunt. Any single/bolt action rifle will do. Unless you're that bad of a shot that you need a semi-automatic weapon with a 30 round p-mag to squeeze off on a coyote.
Ha!
MR. X
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MR. X 12/15/2012 9:06am
12/15/2012 9:06am
MR. X wrote:
Who the fuck are you to tell me what i have the right to own or not own .Another thing you fucking smart ass , i...
Who the fuck are you to tell me what i have the right to own or not own .Another thing you fucking smart ass , i hunt coyotes with my AR . Anything else you think you are the fucking authority on .Just the fact that you singled out the AR as such a bad rifle ,tells me that you know nothing about firearms and you are brainwashed by the media . There is alot more powerful rifles on the market than the .223 . Turn off the news once in awhile and find out shit for yourself before you go telling people what their right should include.
BR_HERO wrote:
I'am not brainwashed by the media, i just have common sense. You don;'t need an AR to hunt. Any single/bolt action rifle will do. Unless you're...
I'am not brainwashed by the media, i just have common sense.

You don;'t need an AR to hunt. Any single/bolt action rifle will do. Unless you're that bad of a shot that you need a semi-automatic weapon with a 30 round p-mag to squeeze off on a coyote.


Just for you , i took a picture . If you could do me a favor and circle this 30 round magazine that i supposedly need because im such a horrible shot. I have 2 magazines both are 5 rounders which is legal in NYS ,nothing more. So yes you are brainwashed by the media and i just proved it .
JW381
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JW381 12/15/2012 9:11am
12/15/2012 9:11am
I never said they weren't cool. Just dangerous. And will law abiding citizens get "the shaft" if they put an assault weapon ban in place? Yes, you would probably describe it that way. But would you not pay that price to prevent these mass shootings from possibly happening? I know you don't think it will help, but if you thought there was even a 51% chance it would have an impact, would you pay that price?
Crashinskinoff 12/15/2012 9:14am
12/15/2012 9:14am
JW381 wrote:
I never said they weren't cool. Just dangerous. And will law abiding citizens get "the shaft" if they put an assault weapon ban in place? Yes...
I never said they weren't cool. Just dangerous. And will law abiding citizens get "the shaft" if they put an assault weapon ban in place? Yes, you would probably describe it that way. But would you not pay that price to prevent these mass shootings from possibly happening? I know you don't think it will help, but if you thought there was even a 51% chance it would have an impact, would you pay that price?
Please explain how banning an AR would have stopped the shooting from happening.
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BR_HERO 12/15/2012 9:47am
12/15/2012 9:47am
JW381 wrote:
I never said they weren't cool. Just dangerous. And will law abiding citizens get "the shaft" if they put an assault weapon ban in place? Yes...
I never said they weren't cool. Just dangerous. And will law abiding citizens get "the shaft" if they put an assault weapon ban in place? Yes, you would probably describe it that way. But would you not pay that price to prevent these mass shootings from possibly happening? I know you don't think it will help, but if you thought there was even a 51% chance it would have an impact, would you pay that price?
Crashinskinoff wrote:
Please explain how banning an AR would have stopped the shooting from happening.
Banning AR's is just one step of the process. Not just one step or one rule can fix this, that's why some of us are saying a bunch of things need to change in order for something to be prevented or stopped or at the least hindered. It's better then just sitting back and letting this shit keep happening.
JW381
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JW381 12/15/2012 9:55am
12/15/2012 9:55am
JW381 wrote:
I never said they weren't cool. Just dangerous. And will law abiding citizens get "the shaft" if they put an assault weapon ban in place? Yes...
I never said they weren't cool. Just dangerous. And will law abiding citizens get "the shaft" if they put an assault weapon ban in place? Yes, you would probably describe it that way. But would you not pay that price to prevent these mass shootings from possibly happening? I know you don't think it will help, but if you thought there was even a 51% chance it would have an impact, would you pay that price?
Crashinskinoff wrote:
Please explain how banning an AR would have stopped the shooting from happening.
BR_HERO wrote:
Banning AR's is just one step of the process. Not just one step or one rule can fix this, that's why some of us are saying...
Banning AR's is just one step of the process. Not just one step or one rule can fix this, that's why some of us are saying a bunch of things need to change in order for something to be prevented or stopped or at the least hindered. It's better then just sitting back and letting this shit keep happening.
Exactly. You're thinking way too linear in your approach to this situation. It's not one quick over night fix or ban that's going to stop all mass killings in America. An assault ban is one step of many in an over arching process, much of which will probably involve a little trial and error. If banning AR's and other assault weapons contribute to that overall process, then it's well worth it. Those weapons are meant for military purposes only - to drop as many targets as possible with max efficiency.
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jtomasik 12/15/2012 10:04am
12/15/2012 10:04am
BR_HERO wrote:
Here's how i look at it. I bet you that if any of those young kids parents were gun owners, that their whole view on the...
Here's how i look at it. I bet you that if any of those young kids parents were gun owners, that their whole view on the world/guns and the culture, completely changed when they got that phone call yesterday morning. (And not for the better obviously)

For those of you who have kids and own weapons. How would you feel about guns if that was your 5 y//o girl in that school? Or your wife out christmas shopping (like the people in Oregon)? Or your teenage kids out to see a movie (Aurora,CO)? Would you still feel the same about guns if it was your daughter/wife/son/brother/mother/father/sister?

I personally think that guns are a part of the problem. We need gun control, an assault weapons ban, and more regulation.
I went through the Columbine fiasco, having lived in that area during that time. Never once did I blame guns. I did blame the parents for being inattentive. That's where the issue is.
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three9zero 12/15/2012 10:07am
12/15/2012 10:07am
JW381 wrote:
I never said they weren't cool. Just dangerous. And will law abiding citizens get "the shaft" if they put an assault weapon ban in place? Yes...
I never said they weren't cool. Just dangerous. And will law abiding citizens get "the shaft" if they put an assault weapon ban in place? Yes, you would probably describe it that way. But would you not pay that price to prevent these mass shootings from possibly happening? I know you don't think it will help, but if you thought there was even a 51% chance it would have an impact, would you pay that price?
Crashinskinoff wrote:
Please explain how banning an AR would have stopped the shooting from happening.
. A single shot rifle or shot gun is all you need to blow away a home intruder...Weapons that you can conceal are for what purpose ? On duty police are the only people who should be able to carry a handgun...while on the clock...
jamma10
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jamma10 12/15/2012 10:10am
12/15/2012 10:10am
I'd say JW381, BR_Hero & bartziokas123 are pretty much spot on here.
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Mr. G 12/15/2012 10:15am
12/15/2012 10:15am
Can anyone show an example of a gun ever in the history of man ever actually killing another human being? It has never happened. The anti-gun people are knowingly or unknowingly pro murder as that is the product of their wishes. It comes from a low ability to confront evil.
JW381
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JW381 12/15/2012 10:18am
12/15/2012 10:18am
Mr. G wrote:
Can anyone show an example of a gun ever in the history of man ever actually killing another human being? It has never happened. The anti-gun...
Can anyone show an example of a gun ever in the history of man ever actually killing another human being? It has never happened. The anti-gun people are knowingly or unknowingly pro murder as that is the product of their wishes. It comes from a low ability to confront evil.
That's such a cop out tho. It's the tool used by a murder to make the process of killing another person easier. You don't have to do much besides point and pull a trigger. No mess, no effort, little chance of retaliation, and you can pop off multiple shots from one single spot. It's without a doubt the easiest way to kill a single person, or group of people.

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MR. X
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MR. X 12/15/2012 10:26am
12/15/2012 10:26am
Mr. G wrote:
Can anyone show an example of a gun ever in the history of man ever actually killing another human being? It has never happened. The anti-gun...
Can anyone show an example of a gun ever in the history of man ever actually killing another human being? It has never happened. The anti-gun people are knowingly or unknowingly pro murder as that is the product of their wishes. It comes from a low ability to confront evil.
JW381 wrote:
That's such a cop out tho. It's the tool used by a murder to make the process of killing another person easier. You don't have to...
That's such a cop out tho. It's the tool used by a murder to make the process of killing another person easier. You don't have to do much besides point and pull a trigger. No mess, no effort, little chance of retaliation, and you can pop off multiple shots from one single spot. It's without a doubt the easiest way to kill a single person, or group of people.
Please enlighten us to the first time you had somebody in your sites and slowly squeezed the trigger knowing damn well you were about to end their life . Im sure it was so easy.
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BR_HERO 12/15/2012 10:30am
12/15/2012 10:30am
Mr. G wrote:
Can anyone show an example of a gun ever in the history of man ever actually killing another human being? It has never happened. The anti-gun...
Can anyone show an example of a gun ever in the history of man ever actually killing another human being? It has never happened. The anti-gun people are knowingly or unknowingly pro murder as that is the product of their wishes. It comes from a low ability to confront evil.
You pro-gun people just keep getting crazier and crazier, i swear.
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Hut 12/15/2012 10:44am
12/15/2012 10:44am
BR_HERO wrote:
You pro-gun people just keep getting crazier and crazier, i swear.
The knee jerk reactions are equally crazy, both sides of the issue have extremes that don't help. imo
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captmoto 12/15/2012 11:00am
12/15/2012 11:00am
J.F.S wrote:
[img]https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/382094_10151373392781532_1709953811_n.jpg[/img]
Jumped up and pulled their own trigger? Do we blame cars (with automatic transmissions) for drunk drivers killing people?
Crashinskinoff 12/15/2012 11:02am
12/15/2012 11:02am Edited Date/Time 12/15/2012 11:05am
JW381:

Actually the easiest way would be with a car, the media blast this stuff 24/7 which puts ideas into these nut jobs heads and I don't think all these shooting games help, then there's the parent thing. All the publicity Of Columbine didn't help. The media made those punks celebrities.

When they had the shooting in the 60's from the tower, I don't think there were copycats because the media wasn't able to blast their crap 24/7. Look at the timeline, this shit started with the Internet and modern media, the semi auto M1 Garand has be around since the late 30's....why weren't schools getting shot up then? Maybe it's because back in the day we had values and standards, the Left is all for this anything goes culture, as far as I'm concerned you own this too.
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BR_HERO 12/15/2012 11:14am
12/15/2012 11:14am
Hut wrote:
The knee jerk reactions are equally crazy, both sides of the issue have extremes that don't help. imo
20 kids are dead, i would say knee jerk reactions are appropriate in this situation, we need to start doing something. I believe that control and regulation is very moderate for both sides when it comes to guns.

It's confusing to me as an individual, that when tragedies like this happen, especially when 5 y/o kids get slaughtered, that the NRA type folk still don't budge or question their idealogy. It just doesn't make any sense to me.
Crashinskinoff 12/15/2012 11:22am
12/15/2012 11:22am
J.F.S wrote:
[img]https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/382094_10151373392781532_1709953811_n.jpg[/img]
JW381 wrote:
BUT IT'S THE SECOND AMENDMENT! OUR FOUNDING FATHERS GAVE US THE RIGHT TO HAVE GUNS WHEN THEY GAVE US 'MERICA WHEN JESUS GAVE IT TO THEM...
BUT IT'S THE SECOND AMENDMENT! OUR FOUNDING FATHERS GAVE US THE RIGHT TO HAVE GUNS WHEN THEY GAVE US 'MERICA WHEN JESUS GAVE IT TO THEM! WHY DO YOU HATE JESUS SO MUCH THAT YOU'D POST A PICTURE LIKE THIS?!
J.F.S wrote:
I hope your reply is some kind of irony[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2012/12/15/image_101488.jpg[/img]
I hope your reply is some kind of irony
The biggest pussy in America Bill Maher talking about having balls is some funny shit! Thanks for the laugh.
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JLong 12/15/2012 11:28am
12/15/2012 11:28am
jtomasik wrote:
I went through the Columbine fiasco, having lived in that area during that time. Never once did I blame guns. I did blame the parents for...
I went through the Columbine fiasco, having lived in that area during that time. Never once did I blame guns. I did blame the parents for being inattentive. That's where the issue is.
All the blind folks ripped right past your response. All about banning, not parenting and families.
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the_wood109 12/15/2012 11:49am
12/15/2012 11:49am
Crashinskinoff wrote:
JW381: Actually the easiest way would be with a car, the media blast this stuff 24/7 which puts ideas into these nut jobs heads and I...
JW381:

Actually the easiest way would be with a car, the media blast this stuff 24/7 which puts ideas into these nut jobs heads and I don't think all these shooting games help, then there's the parent thing. All the publicity Of Columbine didn't help. The media made those punks celebrities.

When they had the shooting in the 60's from the tower, I don't think there were copycats because the media wasn't able to blast their crap 24/7. Look at the timeline, this shit started with the Internet and modern media, the semi auto M1 Garand has be around since the late 30's....why weren't schools getting shot up then? Maybe it's because back in the day we had values and standards, the Left is all for this anything goes culture, as far as I'm concerned you own this too.
"I don't think that all these shooting games help."

Check the research and statistics.



There is lots of research in this area, some extremely credible, and some little more than using a phd to wage a propaganda war.

The facts are that violent video games don't have any overall effect on kids committing violent crimes, or even mass murders like this one. It's just another example of the media looking for a scapegoat, rather than looking for the real factors. The kids at columbine and the other guy from 2007 weren't even into games, yet the media went berserk about it. Yet the most violent mass shooting of minors happened in 1927, a long long time before the concept of shooter video games even came about.

I could go on and on about this, but as I said, there is plenty of valid research out there. Check it out for yourself before making assumptions.
BR_HERO
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BR_HERO 12/15/2012 11:53am
12/15/2012 11:53am
Crashinskinoff wrote:
The biggest pussy in America Bill Maher talking about having balls is some funny shit! Thanks for the laugh.
Your definition of a pussy is different from mine. See, mine are the guys who stand behind and fight for gun rights while it's innocent little kids taking the bullets.
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FastEddy 12/15/2012 11:57am
12/15/2012 11:57am
As reading some of the stupid posts in this thread...I can see why society is so fucked up in this country.
Uneducated retards trying to have their 2 cents on a subject they know nothing about.
chuck317
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chuck317 12/15/2012 12:05pm
12/15/2012 12:05pm
BR_HERO wrote:
Your definition of a pussy is different from mine. See, mine are the guys who stand behind and fight for gun rights while it's innocent little...
Your definition of a pussy is different from mine. See, mine are the guys who stand behind and fight for gun rights while it's innocent little kids taking the bullets.
since you dont live in the usa, give it a rest and worry about canada. leave us alone. yes its sad what happened, but some people are evil and no matter what, there is nothing you can do about it. i know people who would be dead if they did not have a fire arm for protection.

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