What has changed in 31 years?

jasonv43
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10/2/2012 12:13pm
And in other news:

kongols
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Riga LV
10/2/2012 12:14pm Edited Date/Time 10/2/2012 12:16pm
rallendude wrote:
Concerned about technique development? Come on. Really? I'll bet you if you took the numbers off and painted all the bikes and riders the same color...
Concerned about technique development? Come on. Really?

I'll bet you if you took the numbers off and painted all the bikes and riders the same color you couldn't tell who was American and who wasn't from this year. Of course, there are some guys who are way bigger and some way smaller but technique wise, you have different body positions but for the most part they are all very similar. Time progresses technique. How many photos have we seen of euros titled "xxxxx scrub pic?" Everyone in pro mx is well versed in scrubbing now. That is just one 'for instance."

In the US, pros race SX and MX. In Europe, it's just MX. That is what the American dominance was attributed to for so many years but how do you explain Everts winning motos all those years? It's all motocross. We had bad luck, crashes, dq's, and horrible starts. The Germans and Belgians rode great.

By the way, you can't be labeled as a sore winner if you didn't win.
Even Decoster specifically said that biggest problem was guy`s running way over the front because of supercross and you can not erase that from your instincts just like that. Look at all the american riders as they approched corners they were trying to put the weight on a front and sitting down. I think Dungey had the most problems with that.
yota
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10/2/2012 12:23pm
if he's bugging you guys then don't respond. It would be funny to see a kongols post without any responses. It would be even more funny to see one without any views.
yota
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10/2/2012 12:24pm Edited Date/Time 10/2/2012 12:33pm
does anyone think Kongols, Mattie and the fuck from KAZ are the same douche, I mean dude?

The Shop

g0rd057
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10/2/2012 12:24pm
22 wins in 31 years....
FastEddy
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10/2/2012 1:12pm Edited Date/Time 10/2/2012 1:22pm
yota wrote:
does anyone think Kongols, Mattie and the fuck from KAZ are the same douche, I mean dude?
No their not the same guy's....

I think Kongols was looking for a more analyzed type answer,rather then trolling people to piss them off - or whatever.
The GP guys could use more diverse training on Supercross type tracks,I would assume...
I think we seen Team USA's weakness in a sense this weekend.
However, by looking at them still pulling off a third place,they were able to adapt & learn a lot in just 10 to 12 days over there.

Sand riding & Supercross are quite different and do indeed take a different style -but there are a couple similarities.
Sanding riding you keep the front of the bike light and squeeze the rear and sorta float (kinda like going through the whoops - but on the entire track) . On a supercross track you are all over the bike and use more technical diverse type techniques though. To me Supercross was always the hardest. Maybe because of the size of the jumps and rhythm you need to carry momentum - it can be quite intimidating and does take big balls. As to where sand ,you want to keep your momentum up and squeeze the rear of the bike and ride light and float - but at the same time go balls out.When your rear end get's out of shape you can drag the back break a little while staying the pipe. It's weird if you spend a lot of time riding deep sand ,it's one of those things. You always feel like you can go faster each time,into the corners a bit faster and get back on it sooner - til it bites you.Then you are back to backing it down lol. That was my experience with it anyway - or the only way I can explain it.
I haven't ridden any of the modern SX tracks - but in the 80's & early 90's I got to ride some of them,I was always very intimidated and couldn't get down a rhythm to save my life - if that makes any sense. I rode plenty of deep sand from when they dredged the Columbia river up in the Northwest years back.We had lots of practice tracks all set up along the river and would ride them the majority of the year - due to other places being far to muddy.Also along the coast up that way.
dkg
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10/2/2012 1:29pm
ocscottie wrote:
you really are starting to sound like the fuckin doosh everyone on here calls you out to be Andris.
Don't you have some sort of user security level where it can be set to read only? Kind of like a time out. Would sure like to see a time out for this guy.
MBBadgers
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10/2/2012 1:36pm
jasonv43 wrote:
And in other news: [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2012/10/02/stingray2_uni_885309.jpg[/img]
And in other news:

This is the best post and suits this thread. Kudos.
robkinuk
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10/2/2012 1:37pm
newmann wrote:
Funny thing though, people on here continously speak about how our riders today are so fucking superior to racers from the 70's and 80's. No comparison...
Funny thing though, people on here continously speak about how our riders today are so fucking superior to racers from the 70's and 80's. No comparison to Hannah, Smith, Howerton, blah blah blah. How they are groomed from a young age, how they train, their nutrition..... and then this. It is funny to hear people carry on sometimes.
Agreed there is so much bullsheit on here about how US riders today are bla d bla etc etc Sort of draws a line under Team USA 1981 and how well those guys rode as a team to win, even as FTE points out Andre Vromans dominated both 40 min moto's but the rest of team Belgium had problems, bike failures etc.
Maybe Team USA 2012 was an abreviation for "Useless Sandriding Americans!"Wink Tongue Laughing Laughing
DavidR
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10/2/2012 1:44pm
olds cool wrote:
Other than your replies within this thread, I have counted 18 responses or posts and I have not seen anybody say anything about SX. That in...
Other than your replies within this thread, I have counted 18 responses or posts and I have not seen anybody say anything about SX. That in itself tells me that everybody here knows the REAL intention of your thread, regardless of how you try to spin it, but well...Whatever.Wink
kongols wrote:
As I said people are not open for discussion yet. Paranoia runs wild around here.
"Paranoia runs wild around here." Now this is some irony coming from the guy who gets butt hurt everytime someone says anything about James Stewart. If one person posted as many topics about James Stewart as you have about the MXON over the last couple days you'd have such a case of red ass it'd be incurable.
BR_HERO
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10/2/2012 1:45pm Edited Date/Time 10/2/2012 1:53pm
robkinuk wrote:
Agreed there is so much bullsheit on here about how US riders today are bla d bla etc etc Sort of draws a line under Team...
Agreed there is so much bullsheit on here about how US riders today are bla d bla etc etc Sort of draws a line under Team USA 1981 and how well those guys rode as a team to win, even as FTE points out Andre Vromans dominated both 40 min moto's but the rest of team Belgium had problems, bike failures etc.
Maybe Team USA 2012 was an abreviation for "Useless Sandriding Americans!"Wink Tongue Laughing Laughing
So much bravery from the British on here lately.

You are so brave rob, so brave.
FastEddy
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10/2/2012 1:47pm
robkinuk wrote:
Agreed there is so much bullsheit on here about how US riders today are bla d bla etc etc Sort of draws a line under Team...
Agreed there is so much bullsheit on here about how US riders today are bla d bla etc etc Sort of draws a line under Team USA 1981 and how well those guys rode as a team to win, even as FTE points out Andre Vromans dominated both 40 min moto's but the rest of team Belgium had problems, bike failures etc.
Maybe Team USA 2012 was an abreviation for "Useless Sandriding Americans!"Wink Tongue Laughing Laughing
BR_HERO wrote:
So much bravery from the British on here lately.

You are so brave rob, so brave.
Rob's leading the the series for the over the hill comedy class. Grinning
robkinuk
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10/2/2012 1:47pm
robkinuk wrote:
Agreed there is so much bullsheit on here about how US riders today are bla d bla etc etc Sort of draws a line under Team...
Agreed there is so much bullsheit on here about how US riders today are bla d bla etc etc Sort of draws a line under Team USA 1981 and how well those guys rode as a team to win, even as FTE points out Andre Vromans dominated both 40 min moto's but the rest of team Belgium had problems, bike failures etc.
Maybe Team USA 2012 was an abreviation for "Useless Sandriding Americans!"Wink Tongue Laughing Laughing
BR_HERO wrote:
So much bravery from the British on here lately.

You are so brave rob, so brave.
Dont get sand in your vag or take things so seriously, it was a winking tongue in cheek comment!
chapmanmx
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Maryville, TN US
10/2/2012 1:48pm
newmann wrote:
Funny thing though, people on here continously speak about how our riders today are so fucking superior to racers from the 70's and 80's. No comparison...
Funny thing though, people on here continously speak about how our riders today are so fucking superior to racers from the 70's and 80's. No comparison to Hannah, Smith, Howerton, blah blah blah. How they are groomed from a young age, how they train, their nutrition..... and then this. It is funny to hear people carry on sometimes.
Our top riders are faster now than they were in the 70s and 80s...It's not because Hannah and all those guys didn't have the talent, it's because the entire sport has evolved, from the bikes to the technique to the training. It's a natural progression that will always be there. If Bob Hannah were born in 1990, he would be faster now than he was in his prime in the 70s and 80s. Anyone who doesn't agree with that is probably stuck in the "golden years." Until the sport stops progressing, this will always be the case...
DoctorJD
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10/2/2012 1:50pm
What has changed in 31 years?

It's a big deal when the Euros win. So much of a big deal that they gloat for a week after a victory. Act like you've been there before people, damn.
rosebud441
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10/2/2012 1:56pm Edited Date/Time 10/2/2012 1:57pm
yota wrote:
does anyone think Kongols, Mattie and the fuck from KAZ are the same douche, I mean dude?
FastEddy wrote:
No their not the same guy's.... I think Kongols was looking for a more analyzed type answer,rather then trolling people to piss them off - or...
No their not the same guy's....

I think Kongols was looking for a more analyzed type answer,rather then trolling people to piss them off - or whatever.
The GP guys could use more diverse training on Supercross type tracks,I would assume...
I think we seen Team USA's weakness in a sense this weekend.
However, by looking at them still pulling off a third place,they were able to adapt & learn a lot in just 10 to 12 days over there.

Sand riding & Supercross are quite different and do indeed take a different style -but there are a couple similarities.
Sanding riding you keep the front of the bike light and squeeze the rear and sorta float (kinda like going through the whoops - but on the entire track) . On a supercross track you are all over the bike and use more technical diverse type techniques though. To me Supercross was always the hardest. Maybe because of the size of the jumps and rhythm you need to carry momentum - it can be quite intimidating and does take big balls. As to where sand ,you want to keep your momentum up and squeeze the rear of the bike and ride light and float - but at the same time go balls out.When your rear end get's out of shape you can drag the back break a little while staying the pipe. It's weird if you spend a lot of time riding deep sand ,it's one of those things. You always feel like you can go faster each time,into the corners a bit faster and get back on it sooner - til it bites you.Then you are back to backing it down lol. That was my experience with it anyway - or the only way I can explain it.
I haven't ridden any of the modern SX tracks - but in the 80's & early 90's I got to ride some of them,I was always very intimidated and couldn't get down a rhythm to save my life - if that makes any sense. I rode plenty of deep sand from when they dredged the Columbia river up in the Northwest years back.We had lots of practice tracks all set up along the river and would ride them the majority of the year - due to other places being far to muddy.Also along the coast up that way.
Fast EddY gets it, as did I..

So, i absolutely believe Supercross has hindred our riders ability to adapt to a track so completly opposite of what they train and ride on 6 months of the year...

Lommel was a real MX track... And we had trouble..
BR_HERO
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10/2/2012 2:07pm
rosebud441 wrote:
Fast EddY gets it, as did I.. So, i absolutely believe Supercross has hindred our riders ability to adapt to a track so completly opposite of...
Fast EddY gets it, as did I..

So, i absolutely believe Supercross has hindred our riders ability to adapt to a track so completly opposite of what they train and ride on 6 months of the year...

Lommel was a real MX track... And we had trouble..
It didn't hinder us last year, or the year before that or the year before that etc etc.

Or are you saying that the last few years it wasn't on a 'real' mx track?
rosebud441
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10/2/2012 2:17pm
rosebud441 wrote:
Fast EddY gets it, as did I.. So, i absolutely believe Supercross has hindred our riders ability to adapt to a track so completly opposite of...
Fast EddY gets it, as did I..

So, i absolutely believe Supercross has hindred our riders ability to adapt to a track so completly opposite of what they train and ride on 6 months of the year...

Lommel was a real MX track... And we had trouble..
BR_HERO wrote:
It didn't hinder us last year, or the year before that or the year before that etc etc. Or are you saying that the last few...
It didn't hinder us last year, or the year before that or the year before that etc etc.

Or are you saying that the last few years it wasn't on a 'real' mx track?
What i am saying is, We dont have a "Lommel", sure we have Southwick but apparently that isnt close to the bottemless sand of Lommel... So we were a little out of out element, and it showed..

The reason we have had such success in the MXON is the tracks we've won on were either US tracks, or tracks similiar to what we ride here..

But lets face it.. Whats the flip side to spending the majority of the season on a SX track?? I actually could hardly tell the diffrence between some of our "outdoor" tracks this summer, they have all gotten real jumpy and generic lately.. And yes it hurt us last weekend..
FastEddy
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10/2/2012 2:29pm Edited Date/Time 10/2/2012 2:32pm
BR_HERO wrote:
It didn't hinder us last year, or the year before that or the year before that etc etc. Or are you saying that the last few...
It didn't hinder us last year, or the year before that or the year before that etc etc.

Or are you saying that the last few years it wasn't on a 'real' mx track?
Riding sand you can learn a lot about bike control in a sense.
It's really weird ,as I said before you always feel like you can go faster til it bites you. Smile
It's sorta hard to explain. Maybe DV or someone can chime in with their theories.
And sure I would agree that Lommel is an extreme version of real MX to a certain degree,of a natural type track & soil and the roughness of it. Rather then groomed and mostly man made stuff.
SO I get what he was saying. The bikes make the lines and they are forever changing in a sense.
Sand gets whooped out all on it's own and just gets bigger & deeper as more bikes tear into it.
I could go on ,but I'm sure you get the concept.
BR_HERO
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10/2/2012 2:31pm
rosebud441 wrote:
What i am saying is, We dont have a "Lommel", sure we have Southwick but apparently that isnt close to the bottemless sand of Lommel... So...
What i am saying is, We dont have a "Lommel", sure we have Southwick but apparently that isnt close to the bottemless sand of Lommel... So we were a little out of out element, and it showed..

The reason we have had such success in the MXON is the tracks we've won on were either US tracks, or tracks similiar to what we ride here..

But lets face it.. Whats the flip side to spending the majority of the season on a SX track?? I actually could hardly tell the diffrence between some of our "outdoor" tracks this summer, they have all gotten real jumpy and generic lately.. And yes it hurt us last weekend..
Well i guess luckily for our riders there is only one "Lommel" and our U.S. "jump and generic" tracks will do just fine for the next few scheduled MXDN won't they?
FastEddy
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10/2/2012 2:36pm Edited Date/Time 10/2/2012 2:36pm
BR_HERO wrote:
Well i guess luckily for our riders there is only one "Lommel" and our U.S. "jump and generic" tracks will do just fine for the next...
Well i guess luckily for our riders there is only one "Lommel" and our U.S. "jump and generic" tracks will do just fine for the next few scheduled MXDN won't they?
It's not like Lommel would be un-learnable for our top guys.
It's just spending time riding it and learning it.
One of the reasons we went over there so early - I think The Man knew what was up.
I think they did good with the time that they had to prepare.
fader418
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10/2/2012 2:37pm
If they would have sent RV, JB, JS...we would have won no problem...
FastEddy
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10/2/2012 2:38pm
fader418 wrote:
If they would have sent RV, JB, JS...we would have won no problem...
Bet it all sleep in the gutter riding style may have worked. Smile
But we will never know.
rosebud441
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10/2/2012 2:40pm
rosebud441 wrote:
What i am saying is, We dont have a "Lommel", sure we have Southwick but apparently that isnt close to the bottemless sand of Lommel... So...
What i am saying is, We dont have a "Lommel", sure we have Southwick but apparently that isnt close to the bottemless sand of Lommel... So we were a little out of out element, and it showed..

The reason we have had such success in the MXON is the tracks we've won on were either US tracks, or tracks similiar to what we ride here..

But lets face it.. Whats the flip side to spending the majority of the season on a SX track?? I actually could hardly tell the diffrence between some of our "outdoor" tracks this summer, they have all gotten real jumpy and generic lately.. And yes it hurt us last weekend..
BR_HERO wrote:
Well i guess luckily for our riders there is only one "Lommel" and our U.S. "jump and generic" tracks will do just fine for the next...
Well i guess luckily for our riders there is only one "Lommel" and our U.S. "jump and generic" tracks will do just fine for the next few scheduled MXDN won't they?
Yes, most likely... We probably wont loose again untill the next MXON at Lommel, haha

FYI, i do think the best riders are in the States, but we gotta be carefull with our generic jump, turn, jump SX style tracks...
Perhaps certain Euro riders are better MX riders at the moment, where we obviously dominate the SX world..

Its a trade off..
scooter5002
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Nanton Alberta CA
10/2/2012 2:44pm
FastEddy wrote:
No their not the same guy's.... I think Kongols was looking for a more analyzed type answer,rather then trolling people to piss them off - or...
No their not the same guy's....

I think Kongols was looking for a more analyzed type answer,rather then trolling people to piss them off - or whatever.
The GP guys could use more diverse training on Supercross type tracks,I would assume...
I think we seen Team USA's weakness in a sense this weekend.
However, by looking at them still pulling off a third place,they were able to adapt & learn a lot in just 10 to 12 days over there.

Sand riding & Supercross are quite different and do indeed take a different style -but there are a couple similarities.
Sanding riding you keep the front of the bike light and squeeze the rear and sorta float (kinda like going through the whoops - but on the entire track) . On a supercross track you are all over the bike and use more technical diverse type techniques though. To me Supercross was always the hardest. Maybe because of the size of the jumps and rhythm you need to carry momentum - it can be quite intimidating and does take big balls. As to where sand ,you want to keep your momentum up and squeeze the rear of the bike and ride light and float - but at the same time go balls out.When your rear end get's out of shape you can drag the back break a little while staying the pipe. It's weird if you spend a lot of time riding deep sand ,it's one of those things. You always feel like you can go faster each time,into the corners a bit faster and get back on it sooner - til it bites you.Then you are back to backing it down lol. That was my experience with it anyway - or the only way I can explain it.
I haven't ridden any of the modern SX tracks - but in the 80's & early 90's I got to ride some of them,I was always very intimidated and couldn't get down a rhythm to save my life - if that makes any sense. I rode plenty of deep sand from when they dredged the Columbia river up in the Northwest years back.We had lots of practice tracks all set up along the river and would ride them the majority of the year - due to other places being far to muddy.Also along the coast up that way.
What I can add to that is that when it all comes together on a sand ride day, it's an great feeling that brings a smile to your face. On the bad days when you struggle and forget how to ride properly or you're fighting the bike, it absolutely sucks. One thing about sand is if the bike wants to drift a little, don't fight it. You have to learn to work with it, within reason. As I've gotten older, it's gotten harder to ride sand, partly because I don't ride it as much anymore, and I'm not as comfortable on it as I used to be. The tough days are far more frequent now, but I turned 50 this year. Life goes on. Except for Bill Van Vugt, apparently. (Yes, Jolenes dad.) DAMN, he still hauls ass! At well into his 60s.
BR_HERO
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10/2/2012 2:50pm
FastEddy wrote:
Riding sand you can learn a lot about bike control in a sense. It's really weird ,as I said before you always feel like you can...
Riding sand you can learn a lot about bike control in a sense.
It's really weird ,as I said before you always feel like you can go faster til it bites you. Smile
It's sorta hard to explain. Maybe DV or someone can chime in with their theories.
And sure I would agree that Lommel is an extreme version of real MX to a certain degree,of a natural type track & soil and the roughness of it. Rather then groomed and mostly man made stuff.
SO I get what he was saying. The bikes make the lines and they are forever changing in a sense.
Sand gets whooped out all on it's own and just gets bigger & deeper as more bikes tear into it.
I could go on ,but I'm sure you get the concept.
I grew up riding here.... I know it's not "Lommel" but it's still sand and the best sand around in my opinion. Smile

10/2/2012 2:53pm
The racers of the past and present are equally talented and rode/ride their bikes to limits most of us will only be able to dream of. The tracks and bikes have changed but that's about it.

Stay on the balls of your feet


The 500 support class was wheeling up the Unadilla Screw U 31 years ago.


less banners....more grass


And an amazing amount of outdoor talent from oversees.
peelout
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10/2/2012 3:18pm Edited Date/Time 10/2/2012 3:35pm
dipshits on the interwebz weren't flapping their disrespectful "cock-suckers" at every given chance

the amount of disrespect shown towards the US riders, and especially Barcia, is fucking ridiculous (euro fans and 'merican fans alike)
rosebud441
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10/2/2012 3:23pm Edited Date/Time 10/2/2012 3:24pm
Cool Pics Thanks... Those bikes still look rad even by todays standards..

How about 175 on that Yami?, Comfortably standing, head over the bars, maybe not much has changed afterall..
FastEddy
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10/2/2012 3:30pm Edited Date/Time 10/2/2012 3:37pm
BR_HERO wrote:
I grew up riding here.... I know it's not "Lommel" but it's still sand and the best sand around in my opinion. :) [img]http://www.todayzidaho.com/4dunes.jpg[/img]
I grew up riding here.... I know it's not "Lommel" but it's still sand and the best sand around in my opinion. Smile

Dunes are fun. Wink
Used to ride the dunes quite a bit along the Oregon coast (more beach sand - then Northern Desert).
There isn't a whole lot of difference though.
So you understand what I'm saying.

On a side note - I always wanted to fly in & ride the Kobuk Valley dunes way up in remote Alaska.
(But Fed law doesn't allow it anymore).
But it looks like a lot of fun & untouched land. A lot people don't know Alaska has dunes.
Maybe we need a National up there and a Fed ORV park to support it lol.

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