You have to be effing kidding me....

jmar wrote:

And that matters because? Don't grab someones face piece and try to pull their head down while bringing a knee up. No matter what happen before...

And that matters because?

Don't grab someones face piece and try to pull their head down while bringing a knee up.

No matter what happen before that point, it was a big mistake to grab VF face piece.

DonM wrote:

in the pictures it clearly shows VF throwing more that one punch..... contradictory to interview in MXA....hmmmmm.....

jmar wrote:

And that matters because? Don't grab someones face piece and try to pull their head down while bringing a knee up. No matter what happen before...

And that matters because?

Don't grab someones face piece and try to pull their head down while bringing a knee up.

No matter what happen before that point, it was a big mistake to grab VF face piece.

downandup wrote:

Just so you people get a clue: (I am not for suing tracks, but) [b]TRACKS DO NOT SPEND ONE DIME IN DEFENDING THEMSELVES, THEIR INSURANCE COMPANIES...

Just so you people get a clue: (I am not for suing tracks, but)


TRACKS DO NOT SPEND ONE DIME IN DEFENDING THEMSELVES, THEIR INSURANCE COMPANIES FOOT THE BILL!

Get this through your thick heads!!!

DonM wrote:

in the pictures it clearly shows VF throwing more that one punch..... contradictory to interview in MXA....hmmmmm.....

jmar wrote:

And that matters because? Don't grab someones face piece and try to pull their head down while bringing a knee up. No matter what happen before...

And that matters because?

Don't grab someones face piece and try to pull their head down while bringing a knee up.

No matter what happen before that point, it was a big mistake to grab VF face piece.

DonM wrote:

I don't disagree but there a lot of assumptions being made after a few posted pic's. Each side is going to see it there own way...

I don't disagree but there a lot of assumptions being made after a few posted pic's. Each side is going to see it there own way and the truth is usually somewhere in the middle....with that said VF is the one with reputation as a trouble maker not the Leib's and where there is smoke there is fire.
what's funny is in other VF threads everyone jumped on the "if he did that to me I would kick his ass" bandwagon, those same people now are saying something different because there is a lawsuit involved.
At some point you have ask why is Vince always in the middle of controversy with other riders?

downandup wrote:

Just so you people get a clue: (I am not for suing tracks, but) [b]TRACKS DO NOT SPEND ONE DIME IN DEFENDING THEMSELVES, THEIR INSURANCE COMPANIES...

Just so you people get a clue: (I am not for suing tracks, but)


TRACKS DO NOT SPEND ONE DIME IN DEFENDING THEMSELVES, THEIR INSURANCE COMPANIES FOOT THE BILL!

Get this through your thick heads!!!

mag23 wrote:

You are dead f-in wrong Mr. Thin Head

jmar wrote:

And that matters because? Don't grab someones face piece and try to pull their head down while bringing a knee up. No matter what happen before...

And that matters because?

Don't grab someones face piece and try to pull their head down while bringing a knee up.

No matter what happen before that point, it was a big mistake to grab VF face piece.

DonM wrote:

I don't disagree but there a lot of assumptions being made after a few posted pic's. Each side is going to see it there own way...

I don't disagree but there a lot of assumptions being made after a few posted pic's. Each side is going to see it there own way and the truth is usually somewhere in the middle....with that said VF is the one with reputation as a trouble maker not the Leib's and where there is smoke there is fire.
what's funny is in other VF threads everyone jumped on the "if he did that to me I would kick his ass" bandwagon, those same people now are saying something different because there is a lawsuit involved.
At some point you have ask why is Vince always in the middle of controversy with other riders?

jmar wrote:

Reputations are one thing. Video is another. Mistakes made by both parties, and the one who was seen grabbing the face piece of Vince is the...

Reputations are one thing. Video is another.

Mistakes made by both parties, and the one who was seen grabbing the face piece of Vince is the one who "legally" crossed the line.

I truly believe that it should have been defused before it got to this point. And when I say that, I don't mean that it should have been defused by the track security.

I have no dog in this fight, but I dam sure know that it's not alright grab anyone by the face piece and try to either kick or knee them, and not expect someone to react to that.

downandup wrote:

Just so you people get a clue: (I am not for suing tracks, but) [b]TRACKS DO NOT SPEND ONE DIME IN DEFENDING THEMSELVES, THEIR INSURANCE COMPANIES...

Just so you people get a clue: (I am not for suing tracks, but)


TRACKS DO NOT SPEND ONE DIME IN DEFENDING THEMSELVES, THEIR INSURANCE COMPANIES FOOT THE BILL!

Get this through your thick heads!!!

jmar wrote:

Reputations are one thing. Video is another. Mistakes made by both parties, and the one who was seen grabbing the face piece of Vince is the...

Reputations are one thing. Video is another.

Mistakes made by both parties, and the one who was seen grabbing the face piece of Vince is the one who "legally" crossed the line.

I truly believe that it should have been defused before it got to this point. And when I say that, I don't mean that it should have been defused by the track security.

I have no dog in this fight, but I dam sure know that it's not alright grab anyone by the face piece and try to either kick or knee them, and not expect someone to react to that.

DonM wrote:

I don't disagree but there a lot of assumptions being made after a few posted pic's. Each side is going to see it there own way...

I don't disagree but there a lot of assumptions being made after a few posted pic's. Each side is going to see it there own way and the truth is usually somewhere in the middle....with that said VF is the one with reputation as a trouble maker not the Leib's and where there is smoke there is fire.
what's funny is in other VF threads everyone jumped on the "if he did that to me I would kick his ass" bandwagon, those same people now are saying something different because there is a lawsuit involved.
At some point you have ask why is Vince always in the middle of controversy with other riders?

jmar wrote:

Reputations are one thing. Video is another. Mistakes made by both parties, and the one who was seen grabbing the face piece of Vince is the...

Reputations are one thing. Video is another.

Mistakes made by both parties, and the one who was seen grabbing the face piece of Vince is the one who "legally" crossed the line.

I truly believe that it should have been defused before it got to this point. And when I say that, I don't mean that it should have been defused by the track security.

I have no dog in this fight, but I dam sure know that it's not alright grab anyone by the face piece and try to either kick or knee them, and not expect someone to react to that.

DonM wrote:

If there was a headbutt then the grabing of the facemask was retaliation then the punches were retaliation....sounds to me that emotions got high. Legally Vince's...

If there was a headbutt then the grabing of the facemask was retaliation then the punches were retaliation....sounds to me that emotions got high. Legally Vince's retaliation is just as wrong and illegal as grabbing the helmet, they are both assaults. At some point someone should have walked away. Vince tries to come off in the interview as an innocent victim but when you cause bodily harm to another individual through an assault there is no innocence.
Are they both wrong? yes but when there are injuries caused by an assault there is one who is more wrong.
Like I said before it isn't a coincidence that this shit follows Vince around, maybe through legal channels he will learn his lesson.

jmar wrote:

Reputations are one thing. Video is another. Mistakes made by both parties, and the one who was seen grabbing the face piece of Vince is the...

Reputations are one thing. Video is another.

Mistakes made by both parties, and the one who was seen grabbing the face piece of Vince is the one who "legally" crossed the line.

I truly believe that it should have been defused before it got to this point. And when I say that, I don't mean that it should have been defused by the track security.

I have no dog in this fight, but I dam sure know that it's not alright grab anyone by the face piece and try to either kick or knee them, and not expect someone to react to that.

DonM wrote:

If there was a headbutt then the grabing of the facemask was retaliation then the punches were retaliation....sounds to me that emotions got high. Legally Vince's...

If there was a headbutt then the grabing of the facemask was retaliation then the punches were retaliation....sounds to me that emotions got high. Legally Vince's retaliation is just as wrong and illegal as grabbing the helmet, they are both assaults. At some point someone should have walked away. Vince tries to come off in the interview as an innocent victim but when you cause bodily harm to another individual through an assault there is no innocence.
Are they both wrong? yes but when there are injuries caused by an assault there is one who is more wrong.
Like I said before it isn't a coincidence that this shit follows Vince around, maybe through legal channels he will learn his lesson.

jmar wrote:

So far, I haven't seen the head butt. And I agree with 99% of your post, other than it's VFs fault because he has a bad...

So far, I haven't seen the head butt.

And I agree with 99% of your post, other than it's VFs fault because he has a bad reputation.

disbanded wrote:

This thread isn't about who punched who first. It is about the fact that the guy who got his ass kicked is suing Glen Helen.

CamP wrote:

It was a very aggressive move but it wasn't a take out move. VF is a bike length ahead and telegraphing his move from a mile...

It was a very aggressive move but it wasn't a take out move. VF is a bike length ahead and telegraphing his move from a mile away. That gives ample time for Lieb to chop the throttle and continue on with his race.

An example of a dangerous take-out move would be Langston's take-out of Bobby Bonds in '01. Langston intentionally and suddenly cut over into Bond's line in the high speed landing zone of a downhill jump, giving Bonds no place to go except into the back of GL's bike. Nobody hardly made a peep about about that one, but it effectively ended what could have been a good pro career for Bonds.

Apples and oranges.

DonM wrote:

If there was a headbutt then the grabing of the facemask was retaliation then the punches were retaliation....sounds to me that emotions got high. Legally Vince's...

If there was a headbutt then the grabing of the facemask was retaliation then the punches were retaliation....sounds to me that emotions got high. Legally Vince's retaliation is just as wrong and illegal as grabbing the helmet, they are both assaults. At some point someone should have walked away. Vince tries to come off in the interview as an innocent victim but when you cause bodily harm to another individual through an assault there is no innocence.
Are they both wrong? yes but when there are injuries caused by an assault there is one who is more wrong.
Like I said before it isn't a coincidence that this shit follows Vince around, maybe through legal channels he will learn his lesson.

jmar wrote:

So far, I haven't seen the head butt. And I agree with 99% of your post, other than it's VFs fault because he has a bad...

So far, I haven't seen the head butt.

And I agree with 99% of your post, other than it's VFs fault because he has a bad reputation.

jmar wrote:

[i]Like I said before it isn't a coincidence that this shit follows Vince around, maybe through legal channels he will learn his lesson.[/i] And if I...

Like I said before it isn't a coincidence that this shit follows Vince around, maybe through legal channels he will learn his lesson.

And if I may add, I would have thought that you would have been the last person to have this opinion.

FGR01 wrote:

Sorry, but in this first pic VF is no where near a bike length ahead. He is coming across ML's front wheel and forcing ML to...

Sorry, but in this first pic VF is no where near a bike length ahead. He is coming across ML's front wheel and forcing ML to grab a huge handful of brakes or suffer a gnarly crash.

Anytime you are looking backwards over your shoulder on the start (with your supposed bad neck) you are clearly not going for the holeshot and are instead intent on fucking with someone.

You, I, and any other reasonable motocross racer would be very upset to have that bullshit move pulled on us.

DonM wrote:

Let me clarify, I was speaking more of charges for assault and not about anyone suing anyone.

DonM wrote:

Let me clarify, I was speaking more of charges for assault and not about anyone suing anyone.

CamP wrote:

Did the San Benardino County Sheriffs' arrest Friese? Is there any, or have there ever been, assault charges pressed against him? Does he have any record...

Did the San Benardino County Sheriffs' arrest Friese? Is there any, or have there ever been, assault charges pressed against him? Does he have any record of being convicted of any type of criminal charges whatsoever? If not, this whole thing is BS because Lieb's crew went looking for a fight, and they found one.

mag23 wrote:

this is a civil complaint... not criminal. Ask OJ about the difference... GH will probably get dismissed using a contributory negligence defense... But if freise headbutted...

this is a civil complaint... not criminal. Ask OJ about the difference... GH will probably get dismissed using a contributory negligence defense... But if freise headbutted homeboy before the facemask grab... I sure would hate to be in his shoes. I doubt anybody wanted to include GH in the mess, but that's just how this works, all parties involved are gonna take a bite out of the shit sandwich. Freise may end up paying dearly... either in a settlement, or getting himself out of the mess. I wonder if he's gonna start swingin next time?

mag23 wrote:

this is a civil complaint... not criminal. Ask OJ about the difference... GH will probably get dismissed using a contributory negligence defense... But if freise headbutted...

this is a civil complaint... not criminal. Ask OJ about the difference... GH will probably get dismissed using a contributory negligence defense... But if freise headbutted homeboy before the facemask grab... I sure would hate to be in his shoes. I doubt anybody wanted to include GH in the mess, but that's just how this works, all parties involved are gonna take a bite out of the shit sandwich. Freise may end up paying dearly... either in a settlement, or getting himself out of the mess. I wonder if he's gonna start swingin next time?

CamP wrote:

The police interviewed the witnesses and there were multiple cameramen and people shooting video evidence of the altercation, but VF wasn't arrested or charged. All the...

The police interviewed the witnesses and there were multiple cameramen and people shooting video evidence of the altercation, but VF wasn't arrested or charged. All the while, Genn Crucean was lying in the ER with his faced caved in. What does that say? To me, it says the police believe that Crucean was the instigator of the fight.

Now the instigator wants to sue the track? That's completely messed up.

CamP wrote:

Why is it wrong to follow your competition to flank their starting position? It's called racing strategy. It's the same strategy that Pro Circuit used at...

Why is it wrong to follow your competition to flank their starting position? It's called racing strategy. It's the same strategy that Pro Circuit used at Glen Helen in '06 when they had team riders flank Allesi on both sides of his starting gate in an attempt to stifle his start and allow RV clear sailing for the Championship. When VF does it, he's an asshole. When PC does it, they are geniuses.