Public employee unions

vet323 wrote:

Also, those variables among students are statistically constant in an individual school. Each teacher in a school has the same or similar mix of competent/incompetent students.

Skip376 wrote:

So AP teachers have the same amount of incompetent students as those teaching disabled students? That's an extreme to prove my point, but judging a teacher...

So AP teachers have the same amount of incompetent students as those teaching disabled students? That's an extreme to prove my point, but judging a teacher based off a standardized test makes teachers only teach for one test and does not adequately prepare students for higher level education. This is proven without a doubt when you look at the number of students entering remedial classes. 6 out of 10 students entering community college will be placed in remedial classes to be taught what teachers should've already taught them and 4 out of 10 students entering a normal college will fall into remedial classes.

Drives me nuts when people think schools are doing a good job by teaching kids how to pass a crummy standardized test that has no relevance after high school. It's sad to me that the government has tied these teachers hands like they have.

I

vet323 wrote:

I'm awaiting you suggestions for evaluating teachers, rewarding the good and eliminating/retraining the bad. Tell me how it should be done-APLMAN doesn't think it can be...

I'm awaiting you suggestions for evaluating teachers, rewarding the good and eliminating/retraining the bad. Tell me how it should be done-APLMAN doesn't think it can be done, how about you?

The teachers themselves use standardized tests to evaluate their own students, isn't that a bit unfair and or racist?

APLMAN99 wrote:

I've always wondered, why have a union without the ability to strike? What leverage would the union or it's members have to negotiate?

Skip376 wrote:

Glad I'm not the only one that felt this way. Seems if you can't strike your simply paying for a union fat cat to get rich...

Glad I'm not the only one that felt this way.

Seems if you can't strike your simply paying for a union fat cat to get rich.

blankplate wrote:

I thought the same thing before I started working for this particular city, which is also in a right to work state. I've never been a...

I thought the same thing before I started working for this particular city, which is also in a right to work state. I've never been a big proponent of unions before and still feel that way ( I had to hold my nose when I signed). But I was pleasantly surprised by this one. I sat in on a contract meeting between the city manager and the union and got to watch the negotiation first hand. It was pretty civil and by the end everyone was satisfied. I didn't feel the union was there to make ridiculous demands and the city manager explained what could and could not be accomplished with the present budget.

The leverage isn't the STRIKE in this particular case; it's the ability of the city manager to prepare a satisfactory budget for the city and renewing a satisfactory contract with the different departments. His job depends on it.

And as far as paying a union "Fat Cat", my union president is also my Captain. I work with him every shift. Trust me...he aint getting rich being the prez. and he is a conservative like myself.

Now, the IAFF (International Association of Fire Fighters)...that's a different story. I don't send them my money because I dont want that money to go to Obama.

Again, public employees should NOT be allowed to STRIKE.

vet323 wrote:

Also, those variables among students are statistically constant in an individual school. Each teacher in a school has the same or similar mix of competent/incompetent students.

Skip376 wrote:

So AP teachers have the same amount of incompetent students as those teaching disabled students? That's an extreme to prove my point, but judging a teacher...

So AP teachers have the same amount of incompetent students as those teaching disabled students? That's an extreme to prove my point, but judging a teacher based off a standardized test makes teachers only teach for one test and does not adequately prepare students for higher level education. This is proven without a doubt when you look at the number of students entering remedial classes. 6 out of 10 students entering community college will be placed in remedial classes to be taught what teachers should've already taught them and 4 out of 10 students entering a normal college will fall into remedial classes.

Drives me nuts when people think schools are doing a good job by teaching kids how to pass a crummy standardized test that has no relevance after high school. It's sad to me that the government has tied these teachers hands like they have.

I

vet323 wrote:

I'm awaiting you suggestions for evaluating teachers, rewarding the good and eliminating/retraining the bad. Tell me how it should be done-APLMAN doesn't think it can be...

I'm awaiting you suggestions for evaluating teachers, rewarding the good and eliminating/retraining the bad. Tell me how it should be done-APLMAN doesn't think it can be done, how about you?

The teachers themselves use standardized tests to evaluate their own students, isn't that a bit unfair and or racist?

Skip376 wrote:

So AP teachers have the same amount of incompetent students as those teaching disabled students? That's an extreme to prove my point, but judging a teacher...

So AP teachers have the same amount of incompetent students as those teaching disabled students? That's an extreme to prove my point, but judging a teacher based off a standardized test makes teachers only teach for one test and does not adequately prepare students for higher level education. This is proven without a doubt when you look at the number of students entering remedial classes. 6 out of 10 students entering community college will be placed in remedial classes to be taught what teachers should've already taught them and 4 out of 10 students entering a normal college will fall into remedial classes.

Drives me nuts when people think schools are doing a good job by teaching kids how to pass a crummy standardized test that has no relevance after high school. It's sad to me that the government has tied these teachers hands like they have.

I

vet323 wrote:

I'm awaiting you suggestions for evaluating teachers, rewarding the good and eliminating/retraining the bad. Tell me how it should be done-APLMAN doesn't think it can be...

I'm awaiting you suggestions for evaluating teachers, rewarding the good and eliminating/retraining the bad. Tell me how it should be done-APLMAN doesn't think it can be done, how about you?

The teachers themselves use standardized tests to evaluate their own students, isn't that a bit unfair and or racist?

Skip376 wrote:

Base the evaluations off of a number of things, not just a standardized test. They don't put people in AP classes off of one test, they...

Base the evaluations off of a number of things, not just a standardized test. They don't put people in AP classes off of one test, they do evaluations of the student beforehand that are pretty extensive.

I'd like to see teachers evaluations be based off a sit-in from the head of whatever department the teacher is under Ex; English, science, Math etc, where the head of the department evaluates the skills of the teacher.

An evaluation that is given to students with the teacher out of the room like they do in many if not all colleges.

A standardized test.

The average of all 3 would give a best better estimate of how the teacher is doing and also give better input on where improvement is needed for the teacher, and gives you a system that is more fair for rewarding the teachers that are doing their jobs.

I'd also like them to ditch any program that resembles no child left behind because it slows down the smarter kids.

For the record I almost always vote republican.

vet323 wrote:

I think all of those thing sound reasonable, do you think teachers would go for it? My sister is a teacher and she thinks the union...

I think all of those thing sound reasonable, do you think teachers would go for it?

My sister is a teacher and she thinks the union would block any evaluation process or neuter it beyond effectiveness.