Until this happens anything we mention is BS

Grieby54
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Grieby54 9/12/2012 4:55am
9/12/2012 4:55am
"Credit where credit is due, the AMA guys spanked the GP guys in America, no doubt about that."

And every year at MXdN regardless of AMA or GP track...

I'm glad that you made it to Europe, Geoff. I know I sure as hell wouldn't want to claim you. Now, if you could just take a handful of these other idiots with you...
mxgeoff
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mxgeoff 9/12/2012 4:58am
9/12/2012 4:58am
Grieby54 wrote:
[i]"Credit where credit is due, the AMA guys spanked the GP guys in America, no doubt about that."[/i] And every year at MXdN regardless of AMA...
"Credit where credit is due, the AMA guys spanked the GP guys in America, no doubt about that."

And every year at MXdN regardless of AMA or GP track...

I'm glad that you made it to Europe, Geoff. I know I sure as hell wouldn't want to claim you. Now, if you could just take a handful of these other idiots with you...
Team USA are always the best prepared, and always have the best three riders. Most countries struggle to have three top riders and even when they do Team USA comes up trumps. I can''t argue with that. Americans are the proudest nation in the World and even when they shouldn''t win the MXdN, they do, good on them for that.

Geoff
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mxgeoff 9/12/2012 4:59am
9/12/2012 4:59am
Ramrod wrote:
I wish Cairoli could do a season of the US nationals for the challenge of it. It seems like he kills them every year in the...
I wish Cairoli could do a season of the US nationals for the challenge of it. It seems like he kills them every year in the gp's.
What would be cool is with KTM involved Cairoli doing a season in US and Dungey a season in Europe.
Grieby54
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Grieby54 9/12/2012 5:01am
9/12/2012 5:01am
Ramrod wrote:
I wish Cairoli could do a season of the US nationals for the challenge of it. It seems like he kills them every year in the...
I wish Cairoli could do a season of the US nationals for the challenge of it. It seems like he kills them every year in the gp's.
Big fish in a little pond - why would he come over to the big pond and lose when he can keep killing 'em over there?

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Huckster
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Huckster 9/12/2012 5:02am
9/12/2012 5:02am
jamma10 wrote:
[i]RD has clearly showed he is better than AC, your 6x champ......He is 3-0 vs Him in MXoN match ups, including beating him in Italy and...
RD has clearly showed he is better than AC, your 6x champ......He is 3-0 vs Him in MXoN match ups, including beating him in Italy and France last year, which to my knowledge is GP home turf.....

Mad a little easier by the fact Cairoli has only been on track for about 3.5 moto's out of those 6.

Italy was home turf for Cairoli (even though no one had ever ridden the track before). He won the qualifying race, won the first moto and was then taken out on the start of the last race.

The MXdN results don't show it, but I think they're very evenly matched.
Huckster wrote:
And RD won the overall which is the ONLY thing that matters in a race unless of course you're handing out "participant trophies" like AYSO(our youth...
And RD won the overall which is the ONLY thing that matters in a race unless of course you're handing out "participant trophies" like AYSO(our youth soccer governing body that gives EVERY kid a trophy regardless of how they play or where they finish)

So with that said, if an American falls, bike breaks, gives up his start position, etc...(covering every possible excuse) this year, you guys will be saying it wasn't "straight" up? Do the excuses go both ways?
jamma10 wrote:
No one else speaks for me, I have my own views and opinion and try to be as objective as I can. Some of the nonsense...
No one else speaks for me, I have my own views and opinion and try to be as objective as I can. Some of the nonsense I read on here from European members irritates me just as much as anything else.

Stewart crashed out of the last race at Donington in 08 but was by far the fastest guy all weekend. Dungey was superior in 2010. Over the whole weekend Villopoto was probably the fastest rider at Saint Jean d'Angely last year. I don't have any problem saying these things, just as I don't have a problem saying I think Cairoli was the fastest guy in Italy in 09. Last year in France he made a VERY uncharacteristic mistake which robbed us all of a great spectacle.

I just think Cairoli gets a bit of a rough deal by some people on here.
You are by far the most objective, factual, results based non American on here when it comes to this debate.

My whole point in this is if you are going to use ONE criteria to compare a GP rider favorably, then you have to use the same criteria when comparing an American rider. Roczen gets all this credit and hype for dominating MX2 the past 2 years, rightfully so, and some say that makes him the "fastest lites rider on the planet" but yet those same people come up with excuses when that same criteria is used to compare RD to AC....Those same cheerleaders tell us how Herlings beat RV but yet stop from telling us how RV turned around and destroyed him in the 2nd moto by 27+ sec's and won the MX3 overall.....It's is entertaining to read, but clearly delusional....
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mxgeoff 9/12/2012 5:02am
9/12/2012 5:02am
Grieby54 wrote:
[i]"Credit where credit is due, the AMA guys spanked the GP guys in America, no doubt about that."[/i] And every year at MXdN regardless of AMA...
"Credit where credit is due, the AMA guys spanked the GP guys in America, no doubt about that."

And every year at MXdN regardless of AMA or GP track...

I'm glad that you made it to Europe, Geoff. I know I sure as hell wouldn't want to claim you. Now, if you could just take a handful of these other idiots with you...
I don't think any European seriously thinks America haven't earnt their victories in MXoN. Sometimes they have been lucky, but they have deserved all their success. If you can find me one European who doesn't agree with that I will be surprised.

I think what gets lost in the translation is that American's assume the GP riders are not the equal of the American riders and that is totally not true.

Geoff
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Grieby54 9/12/2012 5:02am
9/12/2012 5:02am
mxgeoff wrote:
Team USA are always the best prepared, and always have the best three riders. Most countries struggle to have three top riders and even when they...
Team USA are always the best prepared, and always have the best three riders. Most countries struggle to have three top riders and even when they do Team USA comes up trumps. I can''t argue with that. Americans are the proudest nation in the World and even when they shouldn''t win the MXdN, they do, good on them for that.

Geoff
Have you kept score? AMA vs GP at the MXdN - regardless of country we STILL win it just about every time.
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mxgeoff 9/12/2012 5:05am
9/12/2012 5:05am
Ramrod wrote:
I wish Cairoli could do a season of the US nationals for the challenge of it. It seems like he kills them every year in the...
I wish Cairoli could do a season of the US nationals for the challenge of it. It seems like he kills them every year in the gp's.
Grieby54 wrote:
Big fish in a little pond - why would he come over to the big pond and lose when he can keep killing 'em over there?
Pretty much the average attitude of many Americans, well done. Another reason why you guys win at everything. There isn''t an inch of feeling other countries are as good, at anything.........Believing in yourself is the first challenge, and American's have no lack of believing.
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mxgeoff 9/12/2012 5:07am
9/12/2012 5:07am
mxgeoff wrote:
Team USA are always the best prepared, and always have the best three riders. Most countries struggle to have three top riders and even when they...
Team USA are always the best prepared, and always have the best three riders. Most countries struggle to have three top riders and even when they do Team USA comes up trumps. I can''t argue with that. Americans are the proudest nation in the World and even when they shouldn''t win the MXdN, they do, good on them for that.

Geoff
Grieby54 wrote:
Have you kept score? AMA vs GP at the MXdN - regardless of country we STILL win it just about every time.
Are you trying to argue with me even when I agree with you?
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RACERX69 9/12/2012 5:07am
9/12/2012 5:07am Edited Date/Time 9/12/2012 5:09am
mccread wrote:
Agree Geoff, if those American's rode the World Championship, they wouldn't be as dominant, American's forget how much racing in their own country helps them. Baggett...
Agree Geoff, if those American's rode the World Championship, they wouldn't be as dominant, American's forget how much racing in their own country helps them. Baggett is not better than Roczen just because he beats him in his own national championship, it is not a fair comparison.

Racing a world championship is so different to the US nationals or any national series, and that is the true barometer as there is no constant home country advantage, and you have to be able to adapt to racing in different countrues and different types of track. Doing that is what makes people the best in the world.

Until they all race the World Championship (which in turn would lead to some GP races in America assuming the Americans started following the series) then you can't say who would win. But obviously they are all very close.
mccread wrote: "Racing a world championship is so different to the US nationals or any national series, and that is the true barometer as there is no constant home country advantage, and you have to be able to adapt to racing in different countrues and different types of track. Doing that is what makes people the best in the world."

That is complete and utter non-sense! Racers in Europe traveling from country to country provides about as much culture shock as our guy's traveling from California to New York! It has little to no effect on European racers. Europeans are much more well traveled than Americans, as it's part of their culture. To hop between countries in Europe is a complete non-event.

The term "World Championship" is a relative term and nothing but a play on words.
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Grieby54 9/12/2012 5:07am
9/12/2012 5:07am Edited Date/Time 9/12/2012 5:09am
mxgeoff wrote:
Pretty much the average attitude of many Americans, well done. Another reason why you guys win at everything. There isn''t an inch of feeling other countries...
Pretty much the average attitude of many Americans, well done. Another reason why you guys win at everything. There isn''t an inch of feeling other countries are as good, at anything.........Believing in yourself is the first challenge, and American's have no lack of believing.
Just fishing - looks like a snagged you Wink . I have no doubt that Cairoli could go blow to blow with the best of them. Do I think he could take it to RD or RV in a whole season? Nope. Do I think he'd be in the same ballpark as those guys throughout the season? Absolutely. Right now, we have a top tier of riders in RD, RV, CR, and TC(41). I think Tony would fit right into that group over here, or anywhere. I don't think he would end up the champ, but I have no doubt he'd snag a good chunk of the points.
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motogrady 9/12/2012 5:13am
9/12/2012 5:13am
mxgeoff wrote:
Pretty much the average attitude of many Americans, well done. Another reason why you guys win at everything. There isn''t an inch of feeling other countries...
Pretty much the average attitude of many Americans, well done. Another reason why you guys win at everything. There isn''t an inch of feeling other countries are as good, at anything.........Believing in yourself is the first challenge, and American's have no lack of believing.
Now were supposed to have, ah, feelings.

It's bad to believe in oneself, ha ha ha.

Is that what you want? Someone to feel sorry and let yer guy go by?

Feelings. With that attitude you guys will never win.
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mxgeoff 9/12/2012 5:15am
9/12/2012 5:15am
mxgeoff wrote:
Pretty much the average attitude of many Americans, well done. Another reason why you guys win at everything. There isn''t an inch of feeling other countries...
Pretty much the average attitude of many Americans, well done. Another reason why you guys win at everything. There isn''t an inch of feeling other countries are as good, at anything.........Believing in yourself is the first challenge, and American's have no lack of believing.
Grieby54 wrote:
Just fishing - looks like a snagged you ;). I have no doubt that Cairoli could go blow to blow with the best of them. Do...
Just fishing - looks like a snagged you Wink . I have no doubt that Cairoli could go blow to blow with the best of them. Do I think he could take it to RD or RV in a whole season? Nope. Do I think he'd be in the same ballpark as those guys throughout the season? Absolutely. Right now, we have a top tier of riders in RD, RV, CR, and TC(41). I think Tony would fit right into that group over here, or anywhere. I don't think he would end up the champ, but I have no doubt he'd snag a good chunk of the points.
In my eyes Villopoto is the fastest rider in the World, just from his performances against the other Americans and also his MXoN performances. Probably behind him is Dungey and I would put Reed and Cairoli in the same boat. The question is, who gets injured the most and who doesn''t and Cairoli like Dungey doesn''t end up missing too many GP races due to injury. Now Villopoto and Stewart are probably the two fastest rider on the planet, but fast doesn''t always give you Championships.

We need a World Series!!!!

Geoff
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Grieby54 9/12/2012 5:16am
9/12/2012 5:16am
mxgeoff wrote:
Pretty much the average attitude of many Americans, well done. Another reason why you guys win at everything. There isn''t an inch of feeling other countries...
Pretty much the average attitude of many Americans, well done. Another reason why you guys win at everything. There isn''t an inch of feeling other countries are as good, at anything.........Believing in yourself is the first challenge, and American's have no lack of believing.
Another thing that always gives me a good chuckle when you post is when you say "you guys" in reference to us ignorant 'mericans. If we are "you guys" then what exactly do you think you are? Are you European all of the sudden?
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DonM 9/12/2012 5:16am
9/12/2012 5:16am
mccread wrote:
Agree Geoff, if those American's rode the World Championship, they wouldn't be as dominant, American's forget how much racing in their own country helps them. Baggett...
Agree Geoff, if those American's rode the World Championship, they wouldn't be as dominant, American's forget how much racing in their own country helps them. Baggett is not better than Roczen just because he beats him in his own national championship, it is not a fair comparison.

Racing a world championship is so different to the US nationals or any national series, and that is the true barometer as there is no constant home country advantage, and you have to be able to adapt to racing in different countrues and different types of track. Doing that is what makes people the best in the world.

Until they all race the World Championship (which in turn would lead to some GP races in America assuming the Americans started following the series) then you can't say who would win. But obviously they are all very close.
"Agree Geoff, if those American's rode the World Championship, they wouldn't be as dominant, American's forget how much racing in their own country helps them. Baggett is not better than Roczen just because he beats him in his own national championship, it is not a fair comparison".

What????? so consistently beating somebody over a 12 race series "is not a fair comparison" really? I'm pretty sure if a top US rider raced the GP's and had the results that Roczen had in his first year both you and Geoff would claim world domination!

Both Marvin and Ken are great riders that reached the pinnacle of the sport in the GP's and both chose a greater challenge to be the best of the best, it's not about the money or the lifestyle or anything else it's about winning and becoming the best, it's what drives these guys. It's unfortunate that their GP fans in an effort to discredit the series they chose to race in turn actually discredit them as racers.
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mxgeoff 9/12/2012 5:18am
9/12/2012 5:18am
mxgeoff wrote:
Pretty much the average attitude of many Americans, well done. Another reason why you guys win at everything. There isn''t an inch of feeling other countries...
Pretty much the average attitude of many Americans, well done. Another reason why you guys win at everything. There isn''t an inch of feeling other countries are as good, at anything.........Believing in yourself is the first challenge, and American's have no lack of believing.
motogrady wrote:
Now were supposed to have, ah, feelings. It's bad to believe in oneself, ha ha ha. Is that what you want? Someone to feel sorry and...
Now were supposed to have, ah, feelings.

It's bad to believe in oneself, ha ha ha.

Is that what you want? Someone to feel sorry and let yer guy go by?

Feelings. With that attitude you guys will never win.
I didn''t say it as a negative, it is a positive that the Americans have that. And yes, I think it's maybe their biggest advantage in the MXoN.
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mccread 9/12/2012 5:21am
9/12/2012 5:21am Edited Date/Time 9/12/2012 5:22am
mccread wrote:
Agree Geoff, if those American's rode the World Championship, they wouldn't be as dominant, American's forget how much racing in their own country helps them. Baggett...
Agree Geoff, if those American's rode the World Championship, they wouldn't be as dominant, American's forget how much racing in their own country helps them. Baggett is not better than Roczen just because he beats him in his own national championship, it is not a fair comparison.

Racing a world championship is so different to the US nationals or any national series, and that is the true barometer as there is no constant home country advantage, and you have to be able to adapt to racing in different countrues and different types of track. Doing that is what makes people the best in the world.

Until they all race the World Championship (which in turn would lead to some GP races in America assuming the Americans started following the series) then you can't say who would win. But obviously they are all very close.
RACERX69 wrote:
mccread wrote: "[i]Racing a world championship is so different to the US nationals or any national series, and that is the true barometer as there is...
mccread wrote: "Racing a world championship is so different to the US nationals or any national series, and that is the true barometer as there is no constant home country advantage, and you have to be able to adapt to racing in different countrues and different types of track. Doing that is what makes people the best in the world."

That is complete and utter non-sense! Racers in Europe traveling from country to country provides about as much culture shock as our guy's traveling from California to New York! It has little to no effect on European racers. Europeans are much more well traveled than Americans, as it's part of their culture. To hop between countries in Europe is a complete non-event.

The term "World Championship" is a relative term and nothing but a play on words.
What complete nonsense, and shows how stupid you are, and how disrespectful you are to other countries because they aren't the same size as the US. Northern Ireland is totally different to Italy. Just like the US is totally different to Italy.

What you mean is Americans struggle outside their own country a lot more than people from other countries, because they are more insulated, hence why they don't want to ride the World championsip.
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Grieby54 9/12/2012 5:23am
9/12/2012 5:23am
mxgeoff wrote:
In my eyes Villopoto is the fastest rider in the World, just from his performances against the other Americans and also his MXoN performances. Probably behind...
In my eyes Villopoto is the fastest rider in the World, just from his performances against the other Americans and also his MXoN performances. Probably behind him is Dungey and I would put Reed and Cairoli in the same boat. The question is, who gets injured the most and who doesn''t and Cairoli like Dungey doesn''t end up missing too many GP races due to injury. Now Villopoto and Stewart are probably the two fastest rider on the planet, but fast doesn''t always give you Championships.

We need a World Series!!!!

Geoff
(Not in argument about GP vs AMA - just in bench racing)

Last year Dungey was every bit as fast as RV, which actually came as a hell of a surprise to me. It never looks like RD is pushing it, especially with how consistent he is - but to see him go toe to toe with RV last year was something.

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TMV 9/12/2012 5:23am
9/12/2012 5:23am
motogrady wrote:
Now were supposed to have, ah, feelings. It's bad to believe in oneself, ha ha ha. Is that what you want? Someone to feel sorry and...
Now were supposed to have, ah, feelings.

It's bad to believe in oneself, ha ha ha.

Is that what you want? Someone to feel sorry and let yer guy go by?

Feelings. With that attitude you guys will never win.
Was probably what the guys at Goldman and Sachs thought when they risked the lives of thousands and thousands of families. Without feelings, this world goes to its end...
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mxgeoff 9/12/2012 5:25am
9/12/2012 5:25am
mccread wrote:
Agree Geoff, if those American's rode the World Championship, they wouldn't be as dominant, American's forget how much racing in their own country helps them. Baggett...
Agree Geoff, if those American's rode the World Championship, they wouldn't be as dominant, American's forget how much racing in their own country helps them. Baggett is not better than Roczen just because he beats him in his own national championship, it is not a fair comparison.

Racing a world championship is so different to the US nationals or any national series, and that is the true barometer as there is no constant home country advantage, and you have to be able to adapt to racing in different countrues and different types of track. Doing that is what makes people the best in the world.

Until they all race the World Championship (which in turn would lead to some GP races in America assuming the Americans started following the series) then you can't say who would win. But obviously they are all very close.
DonM wrote:
"Agree Geoff, if those American's rode the World Championship, they wouldn't be as dominant, American's forget how much racing in their own country helps them. Baggett...
"Agree Geoff, if those American's rode the World Championship, they wouldn't be as dominant, American's forget how much racing in their own country helps them. Baggett is not better than Roczen just because he beats him in his own national championship, it is not a fair comparison".

What????? so consistently beating somebody over a 12 race series "is not a fair comparison" really? I'm pretty sure if a top US rider raced the GP's and had the results that Roczen had in his first year both you and Geoff would claim world domination!

Both Marvin and Ken are great riders that reached the pinnacle of the sport in the GP's and both chose a greater challenge to be the best of the best, it's not about the money or the lifestyle or anything else it's about winning and becoming the best, it's what drives these guys. It's unfortunate that their GP fans in an effort to discredit the series they chose to race in turn actually discredit them as racers.
If any non American wins in America, against American rider, hell yes I would rate them the best. Guys like Reed, Langston, Albertyn, even Vuillemin don't get the credit for what they are doing. Home ground advantage, every single week you have the crowd screaming against you, you have the culture reminding you that you are not at home. All your family and real friends are thousands of miles away. I don't understand that you guys don''t understand that.

That type of envoriment broke guys like Tommy Searle and Christophe Pourcel. As much as the speed of the riders, the whole experience was new and they didn''t relate to it. Roczen has been the same, he hasn't dealt with the whole American way of life.

Man, I know if I am travelling how much I love getting back to the warmth of my own house, see my family (kids) and eat from my own kitchen and even shop where I am comfortable. Think about it.

Must take years to get used to that.

Geoff
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mccread 9/12/2012 5:25am
9/12/2012 5:25am
Grieby54 wrote:
[i]"Credit where credit is due, the AMA guys spanked the GP guys in America, no doubt about that."[/i] And every year at MXdN regardless of AMA...
"Credit where credit is due, the AMA guys spanked the GP guys in America, no doubt about that."

And every year at MXdN regardless of AMA or GP track...

I'm glad that you made it to Europe, Geoff. I know I sure as hell wouldn't want to claim you. Now, if you could just take a handful of these other idiots with you...
Racing the MXDN has nothing to do with racing the full World Championship. Individually the GP guys are just as fast.

Your problem is you see American winning the Nations, and then presume that they have beaten Europe and thus proved they are better than the World Championship riders, so there is no need for them to race the World series... what nonsense!
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Derpin' DJ 9/12/2012 5:25am
9/12/2012 5:25am
Fuck this thread
Grieby54
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Grieby54 9/12/2012 5:26am
9/12/2012 5:26am
mccread wrote:
What complete nonsense, and shows how stupid you are, and how disrespectful you are to other countries because they aren't the same size as the US...
What complete nonsense, and shows how stupid you are, and how disrespectful you are to other countries because they aren't the same size as the US. Northern Ireland is totally different to Italy. Just like the US is totally different to Italy.

What you mean is Americans struggle outside their own country a lot more than people from other countries, because they are more insulated, hence why they don't want to ride the World championsip.
mccread, how many times do we have to say "SCOREBOARD!" You're so dense it's unbelievable!

Let me spell this out for you, and read it out loud to yourself a good five or six times before pressing that little reply button.

We beat you EVERY year - regardless of the country the race is held in!
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mxgeoff 9/12/2012 5:28am
9/12/2012 5:28am
mxgeoff wrote:
In my eyes Villopoto is the fastest rider in the World, just from his performances against the other Americans and also his MXoN performances. Probably behind...
In my eyes Villopoto is the fastest rider in the World, just from his performances against the other Americans and also his MXoN performances. Probably behind him is Dungey and I would put Reed and Cairoli in the same boat. The question is, who gets injured the most and who doesn''t and Cairoli like Dungey doesn''t end up missing too many GP races due to injury. Now Villopoto and Stewart are probably the two fastest rider on the planet, but fast doesn''t always give you Championships.

We need a World Series!!!!

Geoff
Grieby54 wrote:
(Not in argument about GP vs AMA - just in bench racing) Last year Dungey was every bit as fast as RV, which actually came as...
(Not in argument about GP vs AMA - just in bench racing)

Last year Dungey was every bit as fast as RV, which actually came as a hell of a surprise to me. It never looks like RD is pushing it, especially with how consistent he is - but to see him go toe to toe with RV last year was something.
Dungey is probably riding as fast as ever this year and might just be the best AMA rider now. Not trying to push the GP thing, but if he can run with Cairoli at Lommel, I will be really impressed. Running with Herlings, I just can''t see that happening. I'm not sure I have ever seen anyone ride sand like Herlings.
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Switch 9/12/2012 5:29am
9/12/2012 5:29am Edited Date/Time 9/12/2012 5:41am
mccread wrote:
Agree Geoff, if those American's rode the World Championship, they wouldn't be as dominant, American's forget how much racing in their own country helps them. Baggett...
Agree Geoff, if those American's rode the World Championship, they wouldn't be as dominant, American's forget how much racing in their own country helps them. Baggett is not better than Roczen just because he beats him in his own national championship, it is not a fair comparison.

Racing a world championship is so different to the US nationals or any national series, and that is the true barometer as there is no constant home country advantage, and you have to be able to adapt to racing in different countrues and different types of track. Doing that is what makes people the best in the world.

Until they all race the World Championship (which in turn would lead to some GP races in America assuming the Americans started following the series) then you can't say who would win. But obviously they are all very close.
RACERX69 wrote:
mccread wrote: "[i]Racing a world championship is so different to the US nationals or any national series, and that is the true barometer as there is...
mccread wrote: "Racing a world championship is so different to the US nationals or any national series, and that is the true barometer as there is no constant home country advantage, and you have to be able to adapt to racing in different countrues and different types of track. Doing that is what makes people the best in the world."

That is complete and utter non-sense! Racers in Europe traveling from country to country provides about as much culture shock as our guy's traveling from California to New York! It has little to no effect on European racers. Europeans are much more well traveled than Americans, as it's part of their culture. To hop between countries in Europe is a complete non-event.

The term "World Championship" is a relative term and nothing but a play on words.
mccread wrote:
What complete nonsense, and shows how stupid you are, and how disrespectful you are to other countries because they aren't the same size as the US...
What complete nonsense, and shows how stupid you are, and how disrespectful you are to other countries because they aren't the same size as the US. Northern Ireland is totally different to Italy. Just like the US is totally different to Italy.

What you mean is Americans struggle outside their own country a lot more than people from other countries, because they are more insulated, hence why they don't want to ride the World championsip.
"Northern Ireland is totally different to Italy. Just like the US is totally different to Italy"

So if the World guys won over there at such diverse places, they should expect to adapt to America and win the same way right?

Everyones entire arguement circles around the fact that its hard to adapt in the US. Then you turn around and say they have to adapt to race the world races anyway and have no trouble doing that.

What?

Edit: And calling someone stupid definitely does not make you look smarter.
mccread
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mccread 9/12/2012 5:32am
9/12/2012 5:32am Edited Date/Time 9/12/2012 5:39am
mccread wrote:
Agree Geoff, if those American's rode the World Championship, they wouldn't be as dominant, American's forget how much racing in their own country helps them. Baggett...
Agree Geoff, if those American's rode the World Championship, they wouldn't be as dominant, American's forget how much racing in their own country helps them. Baggett is not better than Roczen just because he beats him in his own national championship, it is not a fair comparison.

Racing a world championship is so different to the US nationals or any national series, and that is the true barometer as there is no constant home country advantage, and you have to be able to adapt to racing in different countrues and different types of track. Doing that is what makes people the best in the world.

Until they all race the World Championship (which in turn would lead to some GP races in America assuming the Americans started following the series) then you can't say who would win. But obviously they are all very close.
DonM wrote:
"Agree Geoff, if those American's rode the World Championship, they wouldn't be as dominant, American's forget how much racing in their own country helps them. Baggett...
"Agree Geoff, if those American's rode the World Championship, they wouldn't be as dominant, American's forget how much racing in their own country helps them. Baggett is not better than Roczen just because he beats him in his own national championship, it is not a fair comparison".

What????? so consistently beating somebody over a 12 race series "is not a fair comparison" really? I'm pretty sure if a top US rider raced the GP's and had the results that Roczen had in his first year both you and Geoff would claim world domination!

Both Marvin and Ken are great riders that reached the pinnacle of the sport in the GP's and both chose a greater challenge to be the best of the best, it's not about the money or the lifestyle or anything else it's about winning and becoming the best, it's what drives these guys. It's unfortunate that their GP fans in an effort to discredit the series they chose to race in turn actually discredit them as racers.
' the best of the best' . what complete arrogance again. You are the one who refuses to accept that the GP series and non american riders are just as good as the AMA nationals and American riders. That is disrespectful.

You don't know if Dungey would beat Cairoli to a GP title. They are all great riders but US riders are not a level about World Champions they can all beat each other.

Yea Roczen racing American's in America is not a fair comparison because they are racing him in their own country. They have a huge advantage.

Baggett wouldn't beat Herlings in the Dutch Nationals either, but it wouldn't be the fairest comparison either since it is in Herlings' home country. It just means that Herlings is better than baggett in holland.

You make Baggett live in Germany learn German and take Roczen on in the German nationals and it would be harder for him too.

Again, you are not comparing like with like... the The GP series is not a national championship so it is far more comparable, since they race in different countries.

That is the beauty of it.

Dave Thorpe is 100% right in what he says too about the American attitude in mx illustrated....' they talk themselves up, and they talk us down.'

They reality is Americans are great riders but so are the top World Championship riders.
mccread
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mccread 9/12/2012 5:36am
9/12/2012 5:36am Edited Date/Time 9/12/2012 5:39am
RACERX69 wrote:
mccread wrote: "[i]Racing a world championship is so different to the US nationals or any national series, and that is the true barometer as there is...
mccread wrote: "Racing a world championship is so different to the US nationals or any national series, and that is the true barometer as there is no constant home country advantage, and you have to be able to adapt to racing in different countrues and different types of track. Doing that is what makes people the best in the world."

That is complete and utter non-sense! Racers in Europe traveling from country to country provides about as much culture shock as our guy's traveling from California to New York! It has little to no effect on European racers. Europeans are much more well traveled than Americans, as it's part of their culture. To hop between countries in Europe is a complete non-event.

The term "World Championship" is a relative term and nothing but a play on words.
mccread wrote:
What complete nonsense, and shows how stupid you are, and how disrespectful you are to other countries because they aren't the same size as the US...
What complete nonsense, and shows how stupid you are, and how disrespectful you are to other countries because they aren't the same size as the US. Northern Ireland is totally different to Italy. Just like the US is totally different to Italy.

What you mean is Americans struggle outside their own country a lot more than people from other countries, because they are more insulated, hence why they don't want to ride the World championsip.
Switch wrote:
"Northern Ireland is totally different to Italy. Just like the US is totally different to Italy" So if the World guys won over there at such...
"Northern Ireland is totally different to Italy. Just like the US is totally different to Italy"

So if the World guys won over there at such diverse places, they should expect to adapt to America and win the same way right?

Everyones entire arguement circles around the fact that its hard to adapt in the US. Then you turn around and say they have to adapt to race the world races anyway and have no trouble doing that.

What?

Edit: And calling someone stupid definitely does not make you look smarter.
It is amazing that you can't accept American's have an advantage in their own national championship, and don't get my point.

The world championship is a more equal playing field than a national championship to decide who the best rider in the world is.
Grieby54
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Grieby54 9/12/2012 5:39am
9/12/2012 5:39am
Switch wrote:
"Northern Ireland is totally different to Italy. Just like the US is totally different to Italy" So if the World guys won over there at such...
"Northern Ireland is totally different to Italy. Just like the US is totally different to Italy"

So if the World guys won over there at such diverse places, they should expect to adapt to America and win the same way right?

Everyones entire arguement circles around the fact that its hard to adapt in the US. Then you turn around and say they have to adapt to race the world races anyway and have no trouble doing that.

What?

Edit: And calling someone stupid definitely does not make you look smarter.
Spelling definitely incorrectly isn't helping your case much either Laughing , though I completely agree with what you're saying.
Grieby54
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Grieby54 9/12/2012 5:40am
9/12/2012 5:40am
mxgeoff wrote:
Dungey is probably riding as fast as ever this year and might just be the best AMA rider now. Not trying to push the GP thing...
Dungey is probably riding as fast as ever this year and might just be the best AMA rider now. Not trying to push the GP thing, but if he can run with Cairoli at Lommel, I will be really impressed. Running with Herlings, I just can''t see that happening. I'm not sure I have ever seen anyone ride sand like Herlings.
Again, another question - have you seen RC ride the sand? I've never seen Herlings ride the sand, so I genuinely can't compare the two. But, do you think he's really faster than RC was in the sand?
Switch
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Switch 9/12/2012 5:43am
9/12/2012 5:43am
Switch wrote:
"Northern Ireland is totally different to Italy. Just like the US is totally different to Italy" So if the World guys won over there at such...
"Northern Ireland is totally different to Italy. Just like the US is totally different to Italy"

So if the World guys won over there at such diverse places, they should expect to adapt to America and win the same way right?

Everyones entire arguement circles around the fact that its hard to adapt in the US. Then you turn around and say they have to adapt to race the world races anyway and have no trouble doing that.

What?

Edit: And calling someone stupid definitely does not make you look smarter.
Grieby54 wrote:
Spelling definitely incorrectly isn't helping your case much either Laughing , though I completely agree with what you're saying.
Laughing Laughing Fingers get to moving faster than my eyes before coffee.

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