Rules on Track Cutting at LL's?

JJO741
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JJO741
Edited Date/Time 8/8/2012 9:18pm


First of all, thank you Matt Wozney for all the coverage you put toghether at Loretta's. I absolutely love your videos and appreciate the efforts to give us coverage of the amateur scene.

But to the issue at hand. Schoolboy 2 final moto. What a race! Great back and forth action. These guys were battling hard and were pushing themselves to the max. My only gripe is that Covington cut the track twice in this video to take the lead. 3:02 he can't keep his line being forced off the track but continues to pin it around the RedBull sign and takes the lead briefly. At 7:03, Baker takes his line away forcing him off the track. Again, Covington does the same thing and pins it on the side of the track and re-enters in the lead. I don't think it is a big deal but I'm just curious if there are rules set in place for these types of situations. If I'm Baker, I would not be pleased after taking all that roost to try and pass him for so long, then when he does, he gets ripped off by Covington cutting the track. Besides that, that was the best racing at Loretta's in my opinion.
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GuyB
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GuyB 8/8/2012 12:37pm
8/8/2012 12:37pm
Not sure what the rules are, but I'd assume that if either rider were worried about it, it would have been handled at the track?
OW38B
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OW38B 8/8/2012 12:41pm
8/8/2012 12:41pm
Seems to me the cutting of the track was not a big deal given that he was pushed out both times, but the passing of a rider when cutting the track would/should be an issue.

But to be honest I have no clue how the AMA handles things.
JJO741
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JJO741 8/8/2012 12:44pm
8/8/2012 12:44pm
GuyB wrote:
Not sure what the rules are, but I'd assume that if either rider were worried about it, it would have been handled at the track?
I would assume so. Not trying to start anything, just curious what the rules are. I used the video as an example as I'm sure there are incidents of this in other classes as well.
TDeath21
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TDeath21 8/8/2012 1:00pm
8/8/2012 1:00pm
I think Covington should be docked a position for sure. He just went off the track, pinned it, and gained a huge advantage, especially on that last one.

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SPYGUY
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SPYGUY 8/8/2012 1:05pm
8/8/2012 1:05pm Edited Date/Time 8/8/2012 1:06pm
TDeath21 wrote:
I think Covington should be docked a position for sure. He just went off the track, pinned it, and gained a huge advantage, especially on that...
I think Covington should be docked a position for sure. He just went off the track, pinned it, and gained a huge advantage, especially on that last one.
I agree.

He wasn't pushed off in that second instance. He simply chose to dart off the track instead of slow down.
dak446
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dak446 8/8/2012 1:30pm
8/8/2012 1:30pm
Yeah, I would have been pissed if I were Baker. I'm sure it was handled at the track though.
BR_HERO
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BR_HERO 8/8/2012 1:36pm
8/8/2012 1:36pm
My definition and your definition of "cutting the track" must mean 2 different things.

He was forced off the track while in the lead and returned on the track in second at 3:02,

At 7:02 he was forced off the track while in the lead and returns on the track while in the lead.

He didn't gain any positions by what you call, "cutting the track", so i'm failing to see what the issue is OP.
Prairieboy43
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Prairieboy43 8/8/2012 1:48pm
8/8/2012 1:48pm
It was a great race. However what happened to the rule, regarding entering the track where you were forced off or exited the track. The rules must have been rewritten.
mtl
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mtl 8/8/2012 1:57pm
8/8/2012 1:57pm
BR_HERO wrote:
My definition and your definition of "cutting the track" must mean 2 different things. He was forced off the track while in the lead and returned...
My definition and your definition of "cutting the track" must mean 2 different things.

He was forced off the track while in the lead and returned on the track in second at 3:02,

At 7:02 he was forced off the track while in the lead and returns on the track while in the lead.

He didn't gain any positions by what you call, "cutting the track", so i'm failing to see what the issue is OP.
Incident at 7:02 one is blatant cheating.

Suzuki block passes and is in the lead, he has more than a wheel on him. Kawi exitied the track in second place and reenters in the lead, gaining a position.

Anyone can make a pass on a rider who is riding through the rough stuff by pinning it on flat ground.
APLMAN99
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APLMAN99 8/8/2012 2:14pm
8/8/2012 2:14pm
I'm not sure that either of those two incidents would constitute being "forced off the track". There appeared to be the option to back off the throttle or even hit the brakes, but it didn't look like either of those occured.

I think it'd be difficult to be able to monitor every inch of a track, though, so these types of things are going to happen sometimes.
TDeath21
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TDeath21 8/8/2012 2:42pm
8/8/2012 2:42pm
BR_HERO wrote:
My definition and your definition of "cutting the track" must mean 2 different things. He was forced off the track while in the lead and returned...
My definition and your definition of "cutting the track" must mean 2 different things.

He was forced off the track while in the lead and returned on the track in second at 3:02,

At 7:02 he was forced off the track while in the lead and returns on the track while in the lead.

He didn't gain any positions by what you call, "cutting the track", so i'm failing to see what the issue is OP.
So by this logic, every time a rider knows he's about to get passed, he can go off the track on flat ground and pin it while his opponent is riding through whoops or doing a triple jump, and come back onto the track in the next section in the same racing position he was before he went off, maintaining his lead, and that would be okay.
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dboivin 8/8/2012 2:52pm
8/8/2012 2:52pm
APLMAN99 wrote:
I'm not sure that either of those two incidents would constitute being "forced off the track". There appeared to be the option to back off the...
I'm not sure that either of those two incidents would constitute being "forced off the track". There appeared to be the option to back off the throttle or even hit the brakes, but it didn't look like either of those occured.

I think it'd be difficult to be able to monitor every inch of a track, though, so these types of things are going to happen sometimes.
yeah i guess theres no such thing as a block pass at LL's. haha.geeze that kid just drives off track wide open and pins it. feel for that suzuki, that pass was nice....he took advantage of the kawi taking wide lines...he got robbed IMO.
BR_HERO
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BR_HERO 8/8/2012 2:57pm
8/8/2012 2:57pm Edited Date/Time 8/8/2012 3:00pm
TDeath21 wrote:
So by this logic, every time a rider knows he's about to get passed, he can go off the track on flat ground and pin it...
So by this logic, every time a rider knows he's about to get passed, he can go off the track on flat ground and pin it while his opponent is riding through whoops or doing a triple jump, and come back onto the track in the next section in the same racing position he was before he went off, maintaining his lead, and that would be okay.
Well he didn't go off the track because he knew he was about to get passed, he went off the track because he was forced to. He didn't return on the track in a different section, he returned on the same section where it was safe. Should he have ridden straight into the banner that was in front of him? He did nothing wrong in my opinion, neither of them did, it obviously wasn't an issue to them, so it shouldn't be for anyone else either.
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dboivin 8/8/2012 3:05pm
8/8/2012 3:05pm
TDeath21 wrote:
So by this logic, every time a rider knows he's about to get passed, he can go off the track on flat ground and pin it...
So by this logic, every time a rider knows he's about to get passed, he can go off the track on flat ground and pin it while his opponent is riding through whoops or doing a triple jump, and come back onto the track in the next section in the same racing position he was before he went off, maintaining his lead, and that would be okay.
BR_HERO wrote:
Well he didn't go off the track because he knew he was about to get passed, he went off the track because he was forced to...
Well he didn't go off the track because he knew he was about to get passed, he went off the track because he was forced to. He didn't return on the track in a different section, he returned on the same section where it was safe. Should he have ridden straight into the banner that was in front of him? He did nothing wrong in my opinion, neither of them did, it obviously wasn't an issue to them, so it shouldn't be for anyone else either.
lol seriously? so i guess braking is out of the question. gimme a break.
mtl
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mtl 8/8/2012 3:06pm
8/8/2012 3:06pm
BR_HERO wrote:
Well he didn't go off the track because he knew he was about to get passed, he went off the track because he was forced to...
Well he didn't go off the track because he knew he was about to get passed, he went off the track because he was forced to. He didn't return on the track in a different section, he returned on the same section where it was safe. Should he have ridden straight into the banner that was in front of him? He did nothing wrong in my opinion, neither of them did, it obviously wasn't an issue to them, so it shouldn't be for anyone else either.
Should have checked up, ridden the right hand line of the turn and had drive to regain the position in the next straight.

The right hand side had no hump, while the left did. Also, turn after the straight is a right hander so the advantage was the to inside line the suzuki if you got next to him.
TDeath21
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TDeath21 8/8/2012 3:14pm
8/8/2012 3:14pm
TDeath21 wrote:
So by this logic, every time a rider knows he's about to get passed, he can go off the track on flat ground and pin it...
So by this logic, every time a rider knows he's about to get passed, he can go off the track on flat ground and pin it while his opponent is riding through whoops or doing a triple jump, and come back onto the track in the next section in the same racing position he was before he went off, maintaining his lead, and that would be okay.
BR_HERO wrote:
Well he didn't go off the track because he knew he was about to get passed, he went off the track because he was forced to...
Well he didn't go off the track because he knew he was about to get passed, he went off the track because he was forced to. He didn't return on the track in a different section, he returned on the same section where it was safe. Should he have ridden straight into the banner that was in front of him? He did nothing wrong in my opinion, neither of them did, it obviously wasn't an issue to them, so it shouldn't be for anyone else either.
So if a guy block passes you, you have the right to go off the track and pin it to pass him back?
LoudLove
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LoudLove 8/8/2012 3:27pm
8/8/2012 3:27pm
The Kawasaki goes off the track in second, re-enters in first. This is even up for debate? If the Kawi backed off a bit and re-entered behind the Suzuki, then he more or less followed the rules. But gaining a position is a definite no-no.
Switch
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Switch 8/8/2012 3:42pm
8/8/2012 3:42pm
Word at the ranch was a certain schoolboy KTM rider getting docked a position for basically the same reason. In his case, on two seperate occasions, he was said to have jumped off the track by "losing control" and gaining position on the track before re-entering the track after the 10 commandments. I didn't see it so it's second hand information, but it came from a good source.

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RF219
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RF219 8/8/2012 3:46pm
8/8/2012 3:46pm
LoudLove wrote:
The Kawasaki goes off the track in second, re-enters in first. This is even up for debate? If the Kawi backed off a bit and re-entered...
The Kawasaki goes off the track in second, re-enters in first. This is even up for debate? If the Kawi backed off a bit and re-entered behind the Suzuki, then he more or less followed the rules. But gaining a position is a definite no-no.
Baker got robbed!!! He cleanly took his line from him. The kawi should have been docked a position
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OW38B 8/8/2012 7:36pm
8/8/2012 7:36pm
LoudLove wrote:
The Kawasaki goes off the track in second, re-enters in first. This is even up for debate? If the Kawi backed off a bit and re-entered...
The Kawasaki goes off the track in second, re-enters in first. This is even up for debate? If the Kawi backed off a bit and re-entered behind the Suzuki, then he more or less followed the rules. But gaining a position is a definite no-no.
I concur 100%, though "br hero" somehow seems to see it differently. Shocked
WTF?
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WTF? 8/8/2012 7:50pm
8/8/2012 7:50pm
No question- should have been docked a spot!!!
BornA'Lil2Slow 8/8/2012 9:09pm
8/8/2012 9:09pm
BR, you need to just stop talking, and move along. you know it, we all know it. you were mistaken, it happens, muling up now is just a clownshoes move. the kid cut the track and any ref on any track sees that, unless its some hometown cooking, he gets docked. doesn't make two shits why he left the racing surface, he did, and he advanced his position in doing so. thats cutting the track.
dboivin
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dboivin 8/8/2012 9:18pm
8/8/2012 9:18pm Edited Date/Time 8/8/2012 9:18pm
BornA'Lil2Slow wrote:
BR, you need to just stop talking, and move along. you know it, we all know it. you were mistaken, it happens, muling up now is...
BR, you need to just stop talking, and move along. you know it, we all know it. you were mistaken, it happens, muling up now is just a clownshoes move. the kid cut the track and any ref on any track sees that, unless its some hometown cooking, he gets docked. doesn't make two shits why he left the racing surface, he did, and he advanced his position in doing so. thats cutting the track.
he did it twice in my mind. the first one was dangerous...he shot back onto the track so hard that he overshot it. where the hell do they breed these kids anymore...my dad woulda whooped my ass if i pulled that shit.

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