800 Cheating, come on !

MCR Boss
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Spokane, WA, USA
Edited Date/Time 4/5/2012 12:50pm
Sitting here in my front room relaxing after a long day at the office and I check the Vital forum to see if anything in the moto world took place today and I come across this blog of Kenny Watson even mentioning the word cheating when it comes to Mike pulling holeshots.

While I actually think Kenny is a pretty good guy, it is of my opinion that he says things that are at times unprofessional, disrespectful, demeaning and undermining to and about people in the racing world that is damaging to our sport and the people that are part of it.

Kenny is very experienced and knows very well that Mike is the best starter in the business because of his ability to time and jump the gate, his amazing shifting timing and his constant pracicing of starts coupled with the fact that he weighs a hundred and fifty pounds, due to strict diet and a tremendous work ethic.
So to imply in any way that Mike needs to run a cheater is a head scratched to me. Mike is a great guy first and foremost and a top pro motorcycle racer and for the life of me I cannot figure out what motivates people to try and find what's wrong with him, instead of what a huge asset he is to our sport.

On a different note, I as the owner really take exception to public assumptions like these as it really does take a shot at my team and my credibility and integrity. We have taken off the shelf components and built fast and reliable bikes in both classes, pulling multiple holeshots in both classes.

MotoConcepts and Mike Alessi are not cheaters for two reasons, 1) we are ethical, clean and smart 2) we don't have to cheat to succeed, especially when it comes to starts.

Thank you to all of you who believed in us at the start of the season, and thank you to those of you who are starting to believe in us now and giving our team some respect.

Genova
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Xeno
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San Clemente, CA, USA
4/2/2012 10:38pm
What's ironic is that Watson admits that he installed an illegal cylinder on his rider's bike "back in the day".

He said something to the effect of "..when the AMA ref came arround for an inspection, I would say the cylinder was hot- I would then throw it in the solvent tank and hand the ref a legal cylinder that was on standby in the same solvent tank..."
4/2/2012 10:52pm
MCR Boss wrote:
Sitting here in my front room relaxing after a long day at the office and I check the Vital forum to see if anything in the...
Sitting here in my front room relaxing after a long day at the office and I check the Vital forum to see if anything in the moto world took place today and I come across this blog of Kenny Watson even mentioning the word cheating when it comes to Mike pulling holeshots.

While I actually think Kenny is a pretty good guy, it is of my opinion that he says things that are at times unprofessional, disrespectful, demeaning and undermining to and about people in the racing world that is damaging to our sport and the people that are part of it.

Kenny is very experienced and knows very well that Mike is the best starter in the business because of his ability to time and jump the gate, his amazing shifting timing and his constant pracicing of starts coupled with the fact that he weighs a hundred and fifty pounds, due to strict diet and a tremendous work ethic.
So to imply in any way that Mike needs to run a cheater is a head scratched to me. Mike is a great guy first and foremost and a top pro motorcycle racer and for the life of me I cannot figure out what motivates people to try and find what's wrong with him, instead of what a huge asset he is to our sport.

On a different note, I as the owner really take exception to public assumptions like these as it really does take a shot at my team and my credibility and integrity. We have taken off the shelf components and built fast and reliable bikes in both classes, pulling multiple holeshots in both classes.

MotoConcepts and Mike Alessi are not cheaters for two reasons, 1) we are ethical, clean and smart 2) we don't have to cheat to succeed, especially when it comes to starts.

Thank you to all of you who believed in us at the start of the season, and thank you to those of you who are starting to believe in us now and giving our team some respect.

Genova
I have always been a fan of Mike, and thanks for giving him the chance to go out there and represent himself and his work ethic and for continuing to support the motocross community as a whole. Looking forward to seeing Alessi at the Nationals and believe me, there are many fans outside of message boards!
redrider52
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Oklahoma City, OK, USA
4/2/2012 11:10pm
This is funny because tonight on the PulpMx show Kenny told this story about how Genova thanked Kenny for all the nice things Kenny has said about the MCR team. I have a feeling that Kenny may have fabricated his story a bit.
Sherwood
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USA
4/2/2012 11:20pm
Then you'd have no problem showing us what he's running in his engine?

The Shop

BR_HERO
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Cerritos, CA, USA
4/3/2012 2:14am
Credit to rustytrombone in the "Watson just accused 800 of cheating" thread.

Edited Date/Time: 1 hour ago
Watson: Hey, speaking of Alessi, this is a funny one. We watched, me & Roadblock; Kyle Bentley, a guy I work with, were up in the press box. And he goes, “I want you to watch Alessi out of the gate. Watch his bike to see how fast that thing is.” He goes, “Do you think those factory Hondas are fast?” I go, “Oh yeah.” He goes, “You probably think they’re one of the best running bikes out there.” I go “For sure.” That dude freaking pulled him so hard, and Tony was out there, and I ran over to Tony before the main, like at the 30 second board. And I’m all, “Hey! Hey! I got a bet with someone, is your guy gonna pull it?” And he goes, “Ahh, not from the outside.” Like, and like he just gave me this weird look. But, dude it makes me think, like “Hmmm, 147? 167?” Maybe a little (whistles) inside that thing?

Matthes: Are you talking about Mike Alessi?

Watson: Yeah.

Matthes: Well he’s riding a 450, so…

Watson: Yeah, I know. I know what he rides. But, uh, do you think maybe uh,

Holley: He’s talking about over boring.

Matthes: Yeah I guess. Yeah, I don’t know.

Watson: I don’t know dude, but dude, you’ve gotta think about it. He’s on a privateer bike, bro. And I know he’s a good starter and all that stuff, but I don’t know. I don’t know. Don’t think I’m accusing him of anything, but it’s kind of weird, man. Kind of weird.

Essentially, he's saying that Mike is running a big bore, but he tries to cover his ass at the end.
***Live for Everything - Die for Nothing***
4/3/2012 2:25am
And for anybody wanting to hear that for themselves, it starts at the 57 minute mark during the podcast.
Lowlander
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Perth, AU
4/3/2012 2:50am
I find this kind of thing funny. Making assumptions that a bike must be a cheater bike to keep up with the factorys. I can nip down to a tuning shop, get an extra 15 hp by boring it out and modding the bike to the hilt. Doesn't mean that I will out pull a 125 down a flat slick starts straight.

RV pulled the hole shot against factory/works gp 450's at the des nations when the start straight was turned deep and watered which should have been a HP is king start. well it wasn't.
That day RV had the perfect gate jump, gear shift, hp and traction to pull that off. Power is nothing without control.

Mike I think just has the confidence through an amazing amateur career and pro career at getting to the first turn in the top 3. Look at Blake B. He has one of the best bikes on the line and can't buy a start.
thatdad
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USA
4/3/2012 5:02am
Any of us that have worked a kid through his am. career is used to this unsubstantiated allegation bullshit. When your kid does well, he must be cheating. When he doesn't, well it is because their rider is just superior.

There is an established protest procedure. Either use it or shut up.

Mr. Genova, just enjoy your race team and ignore the bullshit and the assholes it came from. It makes for a more enjoyable day.
Ick888
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Drummonds, TN, USA
4/3/2012 5:08am
Johnny Moore pulled the holeshot on both RV and RD in a heat race 2 years ago on a bone stock 450 at the Jax SX. Mike got great starts on a 350. Uhm???
Spartacus
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USA
4/3/2012 5:25am
Lowlander wrote:
I find this kind of thing funny. Making assumptions that a bike must be a cheater bike to keep up with the factorys. I can nip...
I find this kind of thing funny. Making assumptions that a bike must be a cheater bike to keep up with the factorys. I can nip down to a tuning shop, get an extra 15 hp by boring it out and modding the bike to the hilt. Doesn't mean that I will out pull a 125 down a flat slick starts straight.

RV pulled the hole shot against factory/works gp 450's at the des nations when the start straight was turned deep and watered which should have been a HP is king start. well it wasn't.
That day RV had the perfect gate jump, gear shift, hp and traction to pull that off. Power is nothing without control.

Mike I think just has the confidence through an amazing amateur career and pro career at getting to the first turn in the top 3. Look at Blake B. He has one of the best bikes on the line and can't buy a start.
Do you know for a fact that RV bike was legal at MoN?

Just pointing out that unless their is a tech inspection tear-down we'll never know definitively.

And even if you do some people will just_never_believe. [i.e. Obama birth cert freaks]
jatharp12
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198
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Norman, OK, USA
4/3/2012 5:28am
I have no idea why people don't like Mike. It's not like he has ever tried to hit someone's killswitch, flipped off multiple riders, acted like a spoiled child, or wore believe the hype shirts to his first pro national.
typ2vw159
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1002
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Location
Mototown, CA, USA
4/3/2012 5:35am
MCR Boss wrote:
Sitting here in my front room relaxing after a long day at the office and I check the Vital forum to see if anything in the...
Sitting here in my front room relaxing after a long day at the office and I check the Vital forum to see if anything in the moto world took place today and I come across this blog of Kenny Watson even mentioning the word cheating when it comes to Mike pulling holeshots.

While I actually think Kenny is a pretty good guy, it is of my opinion that he says things that are at times unprofessional, disrespectful, demeaning and undermining to and about people in the racing world that is damaging to our sport and the people that are part of it.

Kenny is very experienced and knows very well that Mike is the best starter in the business because of his ability to time and jump the gate, his amazing shifting timing and his constant pracicing of starts coupled with the fact that he weighs a hundred and fifty pounds, due to strict diet and a tremendous work ethic.
So to imply in any way that Mike needs to run a cheater is a head scratched to me. Mike is a great guy first and foremost and a top pro motorcycle racer and for the life of me I cannot figure out what motivates people to try and find what's wrong with him, instead of what a huge asset he is to our sport.

On a different note, I as the owner really take exception to public assumptions like these as it really does take a shot at my team and my credibility and integrity. We have taken off the shelf components and built fast and reliable bikes in both classes, pulling multiple holeshots in both classes.

MotoConcepts and Mike Alessi are not cheaters for two reasons, 1) we are ethical, clean and smart 2) we don't have to cheat to succeed, especially when it comes to starts.

Thank you to all of you who believed in us at the start of the season, and thank you to those of you who are starting to believe in us now and giving our team some respect.

Genova
What are you doing? Don,t come here you look weak as on owner.Tony got a little pay back for crossing the shitline. As tony has said the same about his bikes,but to the AMA. How many owners come in here and do this?1
mark_swart
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Chapin, SC, USA
4/3/2012 5:47am
With the exception of the 350, hasn't Mike always gotten good starts on every brand and size he is ridden? So unless he has somehow perpetrated an extensive overbore scam involving multiple factories....and there is probably a second gunman on the grassy knoll too. He's a great starter and his confidence is up right now. End of story.
Spartacus
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USA
4/3/2012 6:06am
mark_swart wrote:
With the exception of the 350, hasn't Mike always gotten good starts on every brand and size he is ridden? So unless he has somehow perpetrated...
With the exception of the 350, hasn't Mike always gotten good starts on every brand and size he is ridden? So unless he has somehow perpetrated an extensive overbore scam involving multiple factories....and there is probably a second gunman on the grassy knoll too. He's a great starter and his confidence is up right now. End of story.
I too would believe that to be the case.

But


99.9% of people that "cheat" go down with the ship claiming that didn't. Examples of that are overwhelming.

After his next holeshot, a post race [public] tear down of the motor would be better PR then all the posts in the world.


Just a thought......
thatdad
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Location
USA
4/3/2012 6:12am Edited Date/Time 4/3/2012 6:13am
mark_swart wrote:
With the exception of the 350, hasn't Mike always gotten good starts on every brand and size he is ridden? So unless he has somehow perpetrated...
With the exception of the 350, hasn't Mike always gotten good starts on every brand and size he is ridden? So unless he has somehow perpetrated an extensive overbore scam involving multiple factories....and there is probably a second gunman on the grassy knoll too. He's a great starter and his confidence is up right now. End of story.
Spartacus wrote:
I too would believe that to be the case. But 99.9% of people that "cheat" go down with the ship claiming that didn't. Examples of that...
I too would believe that to be the case.

But


99.9% of people that "cheat" go down with the ship claiming that didn't. Examples of that are overwhelming.

After his next holeshot, a post race [public] tear down of the motor would be better PR then all the posts in the world.


Just a thought......
Last time I checked in this country you are innocent until proven guilty. He shouldn't waste his time worrying about shit talkers who wont put their money where their mouth is.

I admire anyone who actually follows through and makes it happen. So far, Mr. Genova spent his cash and built a race team. Any loser can start a rumor.
Spartacus
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4/3/2012 7:37am Edited Date/Time 4/3/2012 7:49am
mark_swart wrote:
With the exception of the 350, hasn't Mike always gotten good starts on every brand and size he is ridden? So unless he has somehow perpetrated...
With the exception of the 350, hasn't Mike always gotten good starts on every brand and size he is ridden? So unless he has somehow perpetrated an extensive overbore scam involving multiple factories....and there is probably a second gunman on the grassy knoll too. He's a great starter and his confidence is up right now. End of story.
Spartacus wrote:
I too would believe that to be the case. But 99.9% of people that "cheat" go down with the ship claiming that didn't. Examples of that...
I too would believe that to be the case.

But


99.9% of people that "cheat" go down with the ship claiming that didn't. Examples of that are overwhelming.

After his next holeshot, a post race [public] tear down of the motor would be better PR then all the posts in the world.


Just a thought......
thatdad wrote:
Last time I checked in this country you are innocent until proven guilty. He shouldn't waste his time worrying about shit talkers who wont put their...
Last time I checked in this country you are innocent until proven guilty. He shouldn't waste his time worrying about shit talkers who wont put their money where their mouth is.

I admire anyone who actually follows through and makes it happen. So far, Mr. Genova spent his cash and built a race team. Any loser can start a rumor.
In the legal system, yes. In the public opinion/perception not so much these days. Professional [and amateur]l sports have given us a lot of good reason for many to be jaded/skeptical/cynical.

Sorry if you don't care to hear the obvious [imo].
Lowlander
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Perth, AU
4/3/2012 8:00am Edited Date/Time 4/3/2012 8:01am
Lowlander wrote:
I find this kind of thing funny. Making assumptions that a bike must be a cheater bike to keep up with the factorys. I can nip...
I find this kind of thing funny. Making assumptions that a bike must be a cheater bike to keep up with the factorys. I can nip down to a tuning shop, get an extra 15 hp by boring it out and modding the bike to the hilt. Doesn't mean that I will out pull a 125 down a flat slick starts straight.

RV pulled the hole shot against factory/works gp 450's at the des nations when the start straight was turned deep and watered which should have been a HP is king start. well it wasn't.
That day RV had the perfect gate jump, gear shift, hp and traction to pull that off. Power is nothing without control.

Mike I think just has the confidence through an amazing amateur career and pro career at getting to the first turn in the top 3. Look at Blake B. He has one of the best bikes on the line and can't buy a start.
Spartacus wrote:
Do you know for a fact that RV bike was legal at MoN? Just pointing out that unless their is a tech inspection tear-down we'll never...
Do you know for a fact that RV bike was legal at MoN?

Just pointing out that unless their is a tech inspection tear-down we'll never know definitively.

And even if you do some people will just_never_believe. [i.e. Obama birth cert freaks]
Half my post just disappeared. Can't be bothered typing it all again.
BobbyM
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USA
4/3/2012 8:23am
MCR Boss wrote:
Sitting here in my front room relaxing after a long day at the office and I check the Vital forum to see if anything in the...
Sitting here in my front room relaxing after a long day at the office and I check the Vital forum to see if anything in the moto world took place today and I come across this blog of Kenny Watson even mentioning the word cheating when it comes to Mike pulling holeshots.

While I actually think Kenny is a pretty good guy, it is of my opinion that he says things that are at times unprofessional, disrespectful, demeaning and undermining to and about people in the racing world that is damaging to our sport and the people that are part of it.

Kenny is very experienced and knows very well that Mike is the best starter in the business because of his ability to time and jump the gate, his amazing shifting timing and his constant pracicing of starts coupled with the fact that he weighs a hundred and fifty pounds, due to strict diet and a tremendous work ethic.
So to imply in any way that Mike needs to run a cheater is a head scratched to me. Mike is a great guy first and foremost and a top pro motorcycle racer and for the life of me I cannot figure out what motivates people to try and find what's wrong with him, instead of what a huge asset he is to our sport.

On a different note, I as the owner really take exception to public assumptions like these as it really does take a shot at my team and my credibility and integrity. We have taken off the shelf components and built fast and reliable bikes in both classes, pulling multiple holeshots in both classes.

MotoConcepts and Mike Alessi are not cheaters for two reasons, 1) we are ethical, clean and smart 2) we don't have to cheat to succeed, especially when it comes to starts.

Thank you to all of you who believed in us at the start of the season, and thank you to those of you who are starting to believe in us now and giving our team some respect.

Genova
typ2vw159 wrote:
What are you doing? Don,t come here you look weak as on owner.Tony got a little pay back for crossing the shitline. As tony has said...
What are you doing? Don,t come here you look weak as on owner.Tony got a little pay back for crossing the shitline. As tony has said the same about his bikes,but to the AMA. How many owners come in here and do this?1
lt takes balls and smarts to post here as an owner with a real name...other owners have done it too. and i am pretty sure mike doesn't give a fuck what he looks like to you. a real name and balls....you got either one?
fader418
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Lake Forest, CA, USA
4/3/2012 8:33am
Mike is the best starter there is period. He could holeshot on any 450....Wait till outdoors when 800 and 801 start 1-2.
disbanded
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Evergreen, CO, USA
4/3/2012 8:39am
typ2vw159 wrote:
What are you doing? Don,t come here you look weak as on owner.Tony got a little pay back for crossing the shitline. As tony has said...
What are you doing? Don,t come here you look weak as on owner.Tony got a little pay back for crossing the shitline. As tony has said the same about his bikes,but to the AMA. How many owners come in here and do this?1
I would rather have Mike posting here than your dumb ass. And I'm pretty sure everybody else feels the same.
GuyB
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Aliso Viejo, CA, USA
4/3/2012 8:49am
jatharp12 wrote:
I have no idea why people don't like Mike. It's not like he has ever tried to hit someone's killswitch, flipped off multiple riders, acted like...
I have no idea why people don't like Mike. It's not like he has ever tried to hit someone's killswitch, flipped off multiple riders, acted like a spoiled child, or wore believe the hype shirts to his first pro national.
And they say elephants never forget. Apparently that applies to some humans, too. How many years ago was all that?
mrtuf
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Saint Charles, IL, USA
4/3/2012 9:36am
We build those engines for Mike and Jeff. While we won't show you what's inside we will sell you the exact engine if you want. It may surprise you how little they actually cost. TUF Racing has been building engines since 1985 with our first SX riders Alan King and Keith Bowen. With the coming of the 4-strokes we no longer wanted to offer these heads to the public because they took to much time to do by hand. Over the last two years we have developed a program to CNC the heads and we are now offering these heads to the public. You would be surprised how many other engine builders buy heads and cams from us and market them under there own name. I guess being accused of running a big bore is the ultimate compliment.

https://vimeo.com/14949233
GuyB
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Aliso Viejo, CA, USA
4/3/2012 9:40am
Hmm...now there are two team owners in one thread. They're muliplying. Wink
Bob454
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Sweet Valley, PA, USA
4/3/2012 9:45am
fader418 wrote:
Mike is the best starter there is period. He could holeshot on any 450....Wait till outdoors when 800 and 801 start 1-2.
The only time those two will ever see 1-2 again is when they race practice, or they can POSSIBLY pull a holeshot and proceed to throw out the anchor 10 minutes into the moto.
txmxer
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9770
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Weatherford, TX, USA
4/3/2012 9:53am
mrtuf wrote:
We build those engines for Mike and Jeff. While we won't show you what's inside we will sell you the exact engine if you want. It...
We build those engines for Mike and Jeff. While we won't show you what's inside we will sell you the exact engine if you want. It may surprise you how little they actually cost. TUF Racing has been building engines since 1985 with our first SX riders Alan King and Keith Bowen. With the coming of the 4-strokes we no longer wanted to offer these heads to the public because they took to much time to do by hand. Over the last two years we have developed a program to CNC the heads and we are now offering these heads to the public. You would be surprised how many other engine builders buy heads and cams from us and market them under there own name. I guess being accused of running a big bore is the ultimate compliment.

https://vimeo.com/14949233
I guess being accused of running a big bore is the ultimate compliment.


LOL...good call.
ocmxrider01
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Location
San Clemente, CA, USA
4/3/2012 9:53am
I would probably have to side with Alessi and MCR on this one. I doubt he cheats, he's a great starter, always has been.
Spartacus
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USA
4/3/2012 9:54am
I don't have a dog in this fight but I'll play devils advocate for a bit....

Witouth an AMA tech tear down, how can we be assured that engines are legal?

Why bother having displacement rules in effect if their are no 'meaningful' check and balances?

Perhaps engines are protested because no one want someone coming back and looking in their motor.

Top three finishers [and a few random riders] should have a tear down in the devils opinion.
R-acer
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Toronto, CA
4/3/2012 10:00am
I think it's a compliment to Mike Alessi to think he is cheating.. GOOD JOB Mike!!!
Keep showing those factory boys!!
88sdad
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Poeville, NV, USA
4/3/2012 10:04am
mrtuf wrote:
We build those engines for Mike and Jeff. While we won't show you what's inside we will sell you the exact engine if you want. It...
We build those engines for Mike and Jeff. While we won't show you what's inside we will sell you the exact engine if you want. It may surprise you how little they actually cost. TUF Racing has been building engines since 1985 with our first SX riders Alan King and Keith Bowen. With the coming of the 4-strokes we no longer wanted to offer these heads to the public because they took to much time to do by hand. Over the last two years we have developed a program to CNC the heads and we are now offering these heads to the public. You would be surprised how many other engine builders buy heads and cams from us and market them under there own name. I guess being accused of running a big bore is the ultimate compliment.

https://vimeo.com/14949233
So what does Terry Varner do for Mike now?
Sherwood
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USA
4/3/2012 10:05am
A team manager awhile ago said, "We don't cheat but if we wanted to it would be pretty easy.". It would be interesting to know shag everyone's running but that would never happen. P

Post a reply to: 800 Cheating, come on !

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