All these used 2 stroke buyers speaking with their wallets...

EastFlorida
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2334
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Merritt Island, FL, USA
3/16/2012 10:38am Edited Date/Time 3/16/2012 10:39am
reded wrote:
I can tell you one thing, gone are the days of a 16 yr old mowing lawns to support his moto habit, at least in my...
I can tell you one thing, gone are the days of a 16 yr old mowing lawns to support his moto habit, at least in my part of the country.
Red, that is Exactly what I would do! My parents would always step up to help with any small defecit on my part!

I bought a new bike every year from 1980-1984! For 5 years I worked side jobs, went to school and saved to buy next year's bike.

This can't happen today unless your child is an eTrade baby...
2T42
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Location
Zweitakt, IN, USA
3/16/2012 11:52am
The several tracks we race or practice at have seen a rise from 5% in 06 to 25-40% two strokes this year depending on which track. Those are real numbers counted at each event or from track owners. OH, KY, IN, MI, IL. I saw over half at a one few months ago.

I race with 6 guys. In 06 we were all on 4 strokes. Several bikes later and lots of “speaking with our wallets", we are ALL on 2 strokes now and have been since 07. Yes, several NEW bikes and not B or C riders. lol

I didnt want to bring it up before because I didnt have my birth certificate with a current paystub and utility bill with matching addresses and hi res dated photographic proof stapled to said documents all in triplicate, notarized and on file with the AMA and Vital to "confirm" these facts.

I know that all facts are equal, but I accept that my “facts” are less equal than the other facts since I haven’t been hanging out with the cool kids in the industry for a few years.
yosmithy
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Austin, TX, USA
3/16/2012 11:58am
It's true, all of our local dealers are starting to carry Blenzoil again

I'm excited
Spartacus
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USA
3/16/2012 12:07pm
Hando wrote:
why anyone would spend 10K on a dirtbike is beyond me...i can get a new left over gsxr/cbr 1000 for 10K a friend is reviving a...
why anyone would spend 10K on a dirtbike is beyond me...i can get a new left over gsxr/cbr 1000 for 10K

a friend is reviving a 04 cr250..she'll be cookin when shes done!!
Honestly?

Read this.


We are not so smart

The Shop

Overdrive
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Location
Fort Myers, FL, USA
3/16/2012 1:03pm
Affordable bikes is the only thing that is going to save this sport on a local level. 10k bikes will slowly kill things off, why the moto media and the aftermarket companies aren't screaming about this is beyond me. Local track turnout is declining and the local guys are the ones who buy the mags, and purchase the aftermarket parts so their business is going to go down the tubes if things down turn around.


People have to many other choices to spend their money, I cant imagine telling a guy in a cycle shop showroom that if he wants to ride new bikes with his son that its going to be 18k plus, equipment, trailer and weekend fee's.

Used 2 strokes is the only anwser at the moment, but if more manufacturers start marketing updated 2 strokes prices will come down because of competition. Ktm is the only game in town right now and they know it.
reded
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USA
3/16/2012 1:10pm
Overdrive wrote:
Affordable bikes is the only thing that is going to save this sport on a local level. 10k bikes will slowly kill things off, why the...
Affordable bikes is the only thing that is going to save this sport on a local level. 10k bikes will slowly kill things off, why the moto media and the aftermarket companies aren't screaming about this is beyond me. Local track turnout is declining and the local guys are the ones who buy the mags, and purchase the aftermarket parts so their business is going to go down the tubes if things down turn around.


People have to many other choices to spend their money, I cant imagine telling a guy in a cycle shop showroom that if he wants to ride new bikes with his son that its going to be 18k plus, equipment, trailer and weekend fee's.

Used 2 strokes is the only anwser at the moment, but if more manufacturers start marketing updated 2 strokes prices will come down because of competition. Ktm is the only game in town right now and they know it.
This is why I think Suzuki is foolish for not importing the RM line into the states.
GrapeApe
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Mc Kinney, TX, USA
3/16/2012 1:12pm
Hando wrote:
why anyone would spend 10K on a dirtbike is beyond me...i can get a new left over gsxr/cbr 1000 for 10K a friend is reviving a...
why anyone would spend 10K on a dirtbike is beyond me...i can get a new left over gsxr/cbr 1000 for 10K

a friend is reviving a 04 cr250..she'll be cookin when shes done!!
Spartacus wrote:
Honestly?

Read this.


We are not so smart
With the exception of Service Honda 2 strokes, nobody spends $10k on a dirtbike. But don't let facts get in the way of hyperbole.
yosmithy
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Austin, TX, USA
3/16/2012 1:13pm
This kind of thing is happening everywhere. I just heard that girls are starting to let their hoochy hair grow out again.

What's next, bias ply tires?
GrapeApe
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Mc Kinney, TX, USA
3/16/2012 1:17pm
yosmithy wrote:
This kind of thing is happening everywhere. I just heard that girls are starting to let their hoochy hair grow out again. What's next, bias ply...
This kind of thing is happening everywhere. I just heard that girls are starting to let their hoochy hair grow out again.

What's next, bias ply tires?
I've started wearing my old basketball shorts from 1985 to the gym. I'm getting a lot of funny looks, I may have to start wearing underwear with them.
TeamGreen
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Thru-out, CA, USA
3/16/2012 1:19pm
Hando wrote:
why anyone would spend 10K on a dirtbike is beyond me...i can get a new left over gsxr/cbr 1000 for 10K a friend is reviving a...
why anyone would spend 10K on a dirtbike is beyond me...i can get a new left over gsxr/cbr 1000 for 10K

a friend is reviving a 04 cr250..she'll be cookin when shes done!!
Spartacus wrote:
Honestly?

Read this.


We are not so smart
GrapeApe wrote:
With the exception of Service Honda 2 strokes, nobody spends $10k on a dirtbike. But don't let facts get in the way of hyperbole.
Lot's of $10K dirt-bikes, as of late. Hell $5K KTM 50s!
PaleBlue
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Essex, GB
3/16/2012 1:27pm
Hando wrote:
why anyone would spend 10K on a dirtbike is beyond me...i can get a new left over gsxr/cbr 1000 for 10K a friend is reviving a...
why anyone would spend 10K on a dirtbike is beyond me...i can get a new left over gsxr/cbr 1000 for 10K

a friend is reviving a 04 cr250..she'll be cookin when shes done!!
Spartacus wrote:
Honestly?

Read this.


We are not so smart
GrapeApe wrote:
With the exception of Service Honda 2 strokes, nobody spends $10k on a dirtbike. But don't let facts get in the way of hyperbole.
"Nobody spends $10k on a dirt bike" ? would be nice if we could get them as cheap as you guys. At current exchange rates each of our TM 4t's cost approx $12k and the KTMs and Japs not far behind.

Anyway to back up what 2T42 said approx 20% - 30% at all of our local club races are now (new) twostrokes, from a base a couple of years ago of virtually zero (except us!). I don't think it's the 2t's cheaper purchase price, but rather, it's the potential season ending (for some) expense of a serious engine 'blow up' with the four stroke..
Lightning78
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Huntington Beach, CA, USA
3/16/2012 1:32pm
I was at Elsinore last weekend and it too was 40% 2 strokes and 60% 4 strokes....I personally dont like riding thumpers either and was shocked at the amount of 2 strokes these. Even saw a guy throwing down on a 1990 CR500....
Overdrive
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Fort Myers, FL, USA
3/16/2012 1:33pm Edited Date/Time 3/16/2012 1:36pm
Hando wrote:
why anyone would spend 10K on a dirtbike is beyond me...i can get a new left over gsxr/cbr 1000 for 10K a friend is reviving a...
why anyone would spend 10K on a dirtbike is beyond me...i can get a new left over gsxr/cbr 1000 for 10K

a friend is reviving a 04 cr250..she'll be cookin when shes done!!
Spartacus wrote:
Honestly?

Read this.


We are not so smart
GrapeApe wrote:
With the exception of Service Honda 2 strokes, nobody spends $10k on a dirtbike. But don't let facts get in the way of hyperbole.
Yes and local track attendence is going up and bike sales are through the roof. Your narrow view is going to be the end of the sport, keep joking about it but the numbers don't lie.
yosmithy
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Austin, TX, USA
3/16/2012 2:07pm
I'm gonna get my 4 stroke blessed,


just in case...ya know
burn1986
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Location
bossier city, LA, USA
3/16/2012 2:19pm
Here's a little figure for the future:
crf450 cost diff yr to yr
2005 6699
2006 6899 200
2007 6999 100
2008 7199 200
2009 7599 400
2010 8099 500
2011 8199 100
2012 8440 241
Totals 60133 1741
Avg 7516.625 217.625

crf450 cost diff yr to yr
2012 8440
2013 8640 200
2014 8740 100
2015 8940 200
2016 9340 400
2017 9840 500
2018 9940 100
2019 10180 240
Totals 74060 1740
Avg 9257.5 217.5
Shawn142
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Location
Burleson, TX, USA
3/16/2012 2:30pm
My question is who actually pays full retail? In 2010 I bought my CRF for $7,000 OTD. That deal wasn't the best I'd seen either. That's perfectly in line with the inflation I'd expect from 10 years ago when I was paying nearly 6,000 for a new 2-stroke.
burn1986
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12246
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Location
bossier city, LA, USA
3/16/2012 2:40pm
The point is that bikes in general are going up and up. Also going up is the price for parts, gas, bills, etc. If bikes are increasing at this rate, imagine what gas will look like 5-7 years from now. Compare that to what you bring home. The point is that more people will gravitate toward a cheaper alternative, in regards to dirt bikes, and IMO more and more will turn to cheaper 2-strokes.
Overdrive
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Location
Fort Myers, FL, USA
3/16/2012 3:38pm
burn1986 wrote:
Here's a little figure for the future: crf450 cost diff yr to yr 2005 6699 2006 6899 200 2007 6999 100 2008 7199 200 2009 7599...
Here's a little figure for the future:
crf450 cost diff yr to yr
2005 6699
2006 6899 200
2007 6999 100
2008 7199 200
2009 7599 400
2010 8099 500
2011 8199 100
2012 8440 241
Totals 60133 1741
Avg 7516.625 217.625

crf450 cost diff yr to yr
2012 8440
2013 8640 200
2014 8740 100
2015 8940 200
2016 9340 400
2017 9840 500
2018 9940 100
2019 10180 240
Totals 74060 1740
Avg 9257.5 217.5
Add in Tax and other fees. Uncle sam wants his part!
Flatliner
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Location
CA
3/16/2012 5:53pm
Hando wrote:
why anyone would spend 10K on a dirtbike is beyond me...i can get a new left over gsxr/cbr 1000 for 10K a friend is reviving a...
why anyone would spend 10K on a dirtbike is beyond me...i can get a new left over gsxr/cbr 1000 for 10K

a friend is reviving a 04 cr250..she'll be cookin when shes done!!
Spartacus wrote:
Honestly?

Read this.


We are not so smart
GrapeApe wrote:
With the exception of Service Honda 2 strokes, nobody spends $10k on a dirtbike. But don't let facts get in the way of hyperbole.
New CRF 450 from my local dealer is going for 9500, before 13% sales tax.

New non currents go for a grand less, and that's usually it.
DrSweden
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Stockholm, SE
3/16/2012 6:30pm
Some douche in Sweden just bough a used smoker!Woohoo
Overdrive
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Fort Myers, FL, USA
3/17/2012 6:43am Edited Date/Time 3/17/2012 6:46am
Spartacus wrote:
Honestly?

Read this.


We are not so smart
GrapeApe wrote:
With the exception of Service Honda 2 strokes, nobody spends $10k on a dirtbike. But don't let facts get in the way of hyperbole.
Flatliner wrote:
New CRF 450 from my local dealer is going for 9500, before 13% sales tax. New non currents go for a grand less, and that's usually...
New CRF 450 from my local dealer is going for 9500, before 13% sales tax.

New non currents go for a grand less, and that's usually it.
Hey, hey now....Lets not let the facts get in the way of hyperbole. 9500 is not 10k, well altleast before taxes. Sarcasm off.


Oh and grape you were right about one thing, more and more people aren't spending 10k on a new bike. They are walking out of the show room and spending it on other things or not spending it at all.
yam261
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CA
3/17/2012 7:54am
Flatliner wrote:
New CRF 450 from my local dealer is going for 9500, before 13% sales tax. New non currents go for a grand less, and that's usually...
New CRF 450 from my local dealer is going for 9500, before 13% sales tax.

New non currents go for a grand less, and that's usually it.
Same here, They wont budge on the price either.
jtomasik
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Location
Golden, CO, USA
3/17/2012 8:05am
newmann wrote:
If I would actually put things up for sale instead of just offering them up here they might actually sell. Not everyone is willing to go...
If I would actually put things up for sale instead of just offering them up here they might actually sell. Not everyone is willing to go through the hassle or costs of having a bike shipped or buying one sight unseen (in person).
I'd buy from ^this guy sight unseen. Newmann let me borrow a set of Flexx bars, then gave me a great price after I told him I like them. Quality guy...class act.
Overdrive
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Fort Myers, FL, USA
3/17/2012 12:41pm
Flatliner wrote:
New CRF 450 from my local dealer is going for 9500, before 13% sales tax. New non currents go for a grand less, and that's usually...
New CRF 450 from my local dealer is going for 9500, before 13% sales tax.

New non currents go for a grand less, and that's usually it.
yam261 wrote:
Same here, They wont budge on the price either.
Here's some hyperbole for you, if you want a bike for 10k grapeape you have to buy an older model. If you want a 2012 its 11k. Im sure people are breaking down the doors to get a new 450 so they can run out to their local track and crash their 11 thousand dollar investment that will be no where close to that value when a year goes by.

I say investment because at that price it is, and its an extremely bad investment. You will loose large amount of value and that is if it doesnt blow up or need service. Then try to get someone to take it off your hands. Most poeple just say no thanks and find another hobby or sport to take up their time on the weekends.
corsair
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Fountain Hills, AZ, USA
3/17/2012 1:02pm
Forty four years old. Raced YZ and KX125s from 1983-1986. Did not ride at all from 1993-2000. Got back into it in 01 with professional practicing on an 01 RM 250, then had several bikes including two 250fs and one 450f. The last 4 years I have only had an 06 YZ125, and I just recently bought a brand new 11 YZ250 for 7k OTD. Another 2k in goodies, much of it to refresh the 125. My matching pair of two strokes is all I need. To me, four strokes are just dead weight. The only redeeming feature in my mind is a nice power spread, that's it. Two strokes rule. End of story, mine anyway.
TeamGreen
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Thru-out, CA, USA
3/17/2012 2:21pm
Let's resolve some of the bitterness and angst...

Yes, $8-9K for a new scoot is a lot of money; however, the price if you want one. PERIOD.

Yes, you CAN spend A LOT less. Example...used '06-'08 CRF450Rs are CHEAP and REALLY easy to "renew" due to the abundance of after-market goodies (I'd go with an '08 KX450, tho).

You could even build a YZ250 '06-08 for REALLY cheap, too! (My current Project of Choice...jus' to see what I can accomplish and for "How Much"?)

But, what I don't get is...WTF is ALL the Bitching about?

Shit costs money. Go figure.
corsair
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Fountain Hills, AZ, USA
3/17/2012 2:33pm Edited Date/Time 3/17/2012 2:34pm
Yes indeed, you gotta pay to play, no matter how many strokes you prefer. Personally, two strokes bring me the most pleasure, so that's where I choose to spend my money.
Overdrive
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Fort Myers, FL, USA
3/17/2012 2:58pm
Yes shit cost money, but 4 stroke technology is driving the price up to quickly and beyond what the average joe will pay to play.

When cheap 2 strokes are gone due to lack of manufacturing over the past few years the average joe will not take the risk of buying a 3-4k 4 stroke knowing they will have to put 2-3k into a rebuild.

Manufacturers need to put out an entry level bike that is affordable on both up front cost and maintenance or else the sport will continue to decline. Used 2 strokes is only the answer for these guys for so long then they will move on.

Its not really a 2 stroke vs 4 stroke debate everyone is having, its a debate about the future of the sport. Will it be an average joes sport or the sport of the luxury class who have money to burn Don't get me wrong there is nothing wrong with having tons of money but from what I have seen in my 35 years of riding is that those people dont like to get dirty and hurt riding a dirt bike.
Hando
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USA
3/17/2012 3:58pm
Hando wrote:
why anyone would spend 10K on a dirtbike is beyond me...i can get a new left over gsxr/cbr 1000 for 10K a friend is reviving a...
why anyone would spend 10K on a dirtbike is beyond me...i can get a new left over gsxr/cbr 1000 for 10K

a friend is reviving a 04 cr250..she'll be cookin when shes done!!
Spartacus wrote:
Honestly?

Read this.


We are not so smart
Yeah, im totally making it up...no one has spend 10K on on a new dirtbike in the past 2 years..im just a 2-stroke terrorist

lol

dude, 8K-9K-10K..its still too much!!
Slow450
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405
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USA
3/17/2012 4:04pm Edited Date/Time 3/17/2012 4:08pm
GrapeApe wrote:
A half-dozen guys rebuilding 10 year old 2 strokes is not going to be indicative of what is really being sold. The number of fans on...
A half-dozen guys rebuilding 10 year old 2 strokes is not going to be indicative of what is really being sold. The number of fans on web forums is a tremendously small sampling of the actual moto/off-road market. It would be interesting to see the last 10 years sales numbers for FMF/PC's 2 stroke products to see if there is really a 2 stroke resurgence or just a very vocal minority.
newmann wrote:
Key word you used there is "sampling". That can be a pretty fair indicator whether on a forum or not. Trust me, it works for the...
Key word you used there is "sampling". That can be a pretty fair indicator whether on a forum or not. Trust me, it works for the tax auditors! LOL

And about FMF and PC's numbers. Do you think Emler would really be throwing those one and two page two stroke pipe ads in every magazine on the planet if they weren't selling any? Uncle Donnie's onto something. He was almost giving away four stroke pipes for the last few years with all of his ads reflecting deep discounts on those.
Most people don't have pockets deep enough to say buying a pipe for 800 bucks versus 1000 was given away...I think the price reduction was just staying competitive. About a year ago the prices changed to where you could get any top brand's tier one product for 100-200 less.

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