How the f&%$ can this happen?

8686
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8686
Edited Date/Time 2/16/2012 2:58pm
How on earth can this happen??? Oh yeah.....there's no way any of the top names in SX or outdoors MX would be able to even compete against the 450 foopers on a 250cc 2 stroke. No way. Don't even think about it. Stop thinking about it. It's dumb. No way it could happen.

http://otmx100.websitetoolbox.com/post/GH-Transworld-Race-5698917
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Sherwood
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Sherwood 2/16/2012 10:04am
2/16/2012 10:04am Edited Date/Time 2/16/2012 10:05am
It's already been PROVEN at the highest level the 4 stroke has the advantage with the current rules. Now the 30 plus class at chicken dicks raceway might be different.

What's tote other screen name?
burn1986
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burn1986 2/16/2012 10:07am
2/16/2012 10:07am Edited Date/Time 2/16/2012 10:08am
Awesome, I love it! Ride on Suzuki! What if he'd been on a RM300? Then it would be a race.
moto282
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moto282 2/16/2012 10:08am
2/16/2012 10:08am
You're screwing up the 2 stroke agenda... The 250 2 stroke is supposed to race against and be even with 250Fs not 450Fs.

Just joking around.... That's an awesome pic and holeshot.

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level
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level 2/16/2012 10:11am
2/16/2012 10:11am
I had a 2000 CR250 that was bored out to a 265 and I used to holeshot the 450's all the time. They would just pass me everywhere else.
reded
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reded 2/16/2012 10:11am
2/16/2012 10:11am
Like a Boss!

Camp332
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Camp332 2/16/2012 10:16am
2/16/2012 10:16am
Dubach, Preston, MC, psh Whatevs! Brraaaaaaap!!

That's awesome!
bullpen58
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bullpen58 2/16/2012 10:22am
2/16/2012 10:22am
AWESOME pic of an awesome start....I don't care who you are. LOL
burn1986
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burn1986 2/16/2012 10:31am
2/16/2012 10:31am
It looks like Dubach may be looking over slightly at him too.

I still think a pro on one of these could do some damage in SX. He wouldn't qualify for a nat.
RaceFace
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RaceFace 2/16/2012 10:32am
2/16/2012 10:32am
How can it happen?.......Dubach and Preston are on the Yamaha that no one can ride!!! (sarcasm). That is a cool pic. It does screw up that idea that 250's should be in the 250f class though. Maybe if James is far enough out of it outdoors this year he'll ride the 250 near the end. He'd be a hero regardless how he finished.
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4mxonly 2/16/2012 10:47am
2/16/2012 10:47am
RaceFace wrote:
How can it happen?.......Dubach and Preston are on the Yamaha that no one can ride!!! (sarcasm). That is a cool pic. It does screw up that...
How can it happen?.......Dubach and Preston are on the Yamaha that no one can ride!!! (sarcasm). That is a cool pic. It does screw up that idea that 250's should be in the 250f class though. Maybe if James is far enough out of it outdoors this year he'll ride the 250 near the end. He'd be a hero regardless how he finished.
As cool as that sounds, Yamaha would never allow that to happen.
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darius228 2/16/2012 11:00am
2/16/2012 11:00am
burn1986 wrote:
It looks like Dubach may be looking over slightly at him too. I still think a pro on one of these could do some damage in...
It looks like Dubach may be looking over slightly at him too.

I still think a pro on one of these could do some damage in SX. He wouldn't qualify for a nat.
A local pro up here in Washington qualified at Washougal last year.....
OSJ
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OSJ 2/16/2012 11:13am
2/16/2012 11:13am
tomac has been setting some of the fastest lap times on a 250f, what makes you think that a 250 2stroke can beat a 250f and not a 450f with those lap times.
at the pro level you will never see it happen.
iRidePhotos 2/16/2012 11:23am
2/16/2012 11:23am
8686 wrote:
How on earth can this happen??? Oh yeah.....there's no way any of the top names in SX or outdoors MX would be able to even compete...
How on earth can this happen??? Oh yeah.....there's no way any of the top names in SX or outdoors MX would be able to even compete against the 450 foopers on a 250cc 2 stroke. No way. Don't even think about it. Stop thinking about it. It's dumb. No way it could happen.

http://otmx100.websitetoolbox.com/post/GH-Transworld-Race-5698917
And RV2 also holeshot the MX3 class at MXDN a few years back on a 250f. Dont get me wrong, thats a epic picture, but just because one dude holeshots some 450's on a smoker doesnt mean its a Competitive machine at the pro level these days. To many disadvantages. This is coming from a guy who lives smokers too.
newmann
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newmann 2/16/2012 11:45am
2/16/2012 11:45am
Sad fact is that the powers that be won't just throw out some more competetive cc/cc ratios and let whatever happens happens. Would be cool to have a peaceful coexistence of 2's and 4's out on the track and see how the diffenrent line choices form up.
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jtomasik 2/16/2012 11:47am
2/16/2012 11:47am Edited Date/Time 2/16/2012 11:48am
iRidePhotos wrote:
And RV2 also holeshot the MX3 class at MXDN a few years back on a 250f. Dont get me wrong, thats a epic picture, but just...
And RV2 also holeshot the MX3 class at MXDN a few years back on a 250f. Dont get me wrong, thats a epic picture, but just because one dude holeshots some 450's on a smoker doesnt mean its a Competitive machine at the pro level these days. To many disadvantages. This is coming from a guy who lives smokers too.
You do remember that the 4-strokes didn't win unless the best were riding them, right? In fact, other than the one Henry title, two strokes dominated until RC made the jump. Now, that isn't to say that a 250 smoker is better...especially one whose technology has been left behind for several years now. But, I'd bet if you put RV, Reed, and Stewie on smokers, they'd still win against the 450's. They wouldn't be happy about the disadvantage, but they could still do it. And, I wouldn't be surprised to see them take a title with one.

What's sad is that the displacement rules took away the option. If the factories were allowed to race any displacement to the class limit, regardless of technology, I'd bet a well developed 300+cc smoker could be tuned for a very competitive power delivery to any 450F.
Surfinglbi23
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Surfinglbi23 2/16/2012 11:53am
2/16/2012 11:53am
Anyone have a copy of the video that guys references in the thread you linked to?
8686
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8686 2/16/2012 12:05pm
2/16/2012 12:05pm
burn1986 wrote:
It looks like Dubach may be looking over slightly at him too. I still think a pro on one of these could do some damage in...
It looks like Dubach may be looking over slightly at him too.

I still think a pro on one of these could do some damage in SX. He wouldn't qualify for a nat.
Showing 5 guys entered the 450 class at High Point last year on 250 2-strokes. Two of them qualified for the 40 rider gate. Jeff Gibson qualified 27th out of 87 riders. He was on a borrowed thrown-together bike. I read that it was actually a KTM XC bike that they threw together for him to race the premier pro class at the mx nationals. Not a bike he had a ton of time on. He qualified 27th on it. Out of 87 entries. He qualified ahead of some 56 pro riders on their 450 4-strokes. Don't want to argue or anything like that, just don't tell me that it can't be done or that you can't be competitive in the 450 class with a 250 2-stroke. Because you know that most of the guys that were top 20 at that national on a 450 would still be top 20 on a 250 2-stroke.

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iRidePhotos 2/16/2012 12:38pm
2/16/2012 12:38pm
jtomasik wrote:
You do remember that the 4-strokes didn't win unless the best were riding them, right? In fact, other than the one Henry title, two strokes dominated...
You do remember that the 4-strokes didn't win unless the best were riding them, right? In fact, other than the one Henry title, two strokes dominated until RC made the jump. Now, that isn't to say that a 250 smoker is better...especially one whose technology has been left behind for several years now. But, I'd bet if you put RV, Reed, and Stewie on smokers, they'd still win against the 450's. They wouldn't be happy about the disadvantage, but they could still do it. And, I wouldn't be surprised to see them take a title with one.

What's sad is that the displacement rules took away the option. If the factories were allowed to race any displacement to the class limit, regardless of technology, I'd bet a well developed 300+cc smoker could be tuned for a very competitive power delivery to any 450F.
Yes I do, very well. However, you'd be close minded to assume that 4 strokes haven't evolved greatly since 04 when they really started to take over. Ive watched a lot of videos lately of the old 2 smoke days, and while i think if you put one of the top guys on one, he would be in the top ten, he wouldnt be fighting for a title. Yes a 2 stroke is lighter, yes they have a good power to weight ratio, yes the ktm makes 51 hp, but they lack the torque, the tractor-ability, the traction, and the development at this point. However yes, take a well developed 300 and you'd be on to something there i cant argue that.
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Graphite 2/16/2012 12:40pm
2/16/2012 12:40pm
8686 wrote:
How on earth can this happen??? Oh yeah.....there's no way any of the top names in SX or outdoors MX would be able to even compete...
How on earth can this happen??? Oh yeah.....there's no way any of the top names in SX or outdoors MX would be able to even compete against the 450 foopers on a 250cc 2 stroke. No way. Don't even think about it. Stop thinking about it. It's dumb. No way it could happen.

http://otmx100.websitetoolbox.com/post/GH-Transworld-Race-5698917
Where can I find the video they take about in the threaD?
burn1986
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burn1986 2/16/2012 12:49pm
2/16/2012 12:49pm
8686 wrote:
Showing 5 guys entered the 450 class at High Point last year on 250 2-strokes. Two of them qualified for the 40 rider gate. Jeff Gibson...
Showing 5 guys entered the 450 class at High Point last year on 250 2-strokes. Two of them qualified for the 40 rider gate. Jeff Gibson qualified 27th out of 87 riders. He was on a borrowed thrown-together bike. I read that it was actually a KTM XC bike that they threw together for him to race the premier pro class at the mx nationals. Not a bike he had a ton of time on. He qualified 27th on it. Out of 87 entries. He qualified ahead of some 56 pro riders on their 450 4-strokes. Don't want to argue or anything like that, just don't tell me that it can't be done or that you can't be competitive in the 450 class with a 250 2-stroke. Because you know that most of the guys that were top 20 at that national on a 450 would still be top 20 on a 250 2-stroke.
Yeah, I remember. Okay, he would qualify, but he would be seriously outgunned outdoors. There is absolutely no advantage on a 250 2t vs a 450F outdoors. The diplacement is too great of a handicap.
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jtomasik 2/16/2012 12:54pm
2/16/2012 12:54pm
burn1986 wrote:
Yeah, I remember. Okay, he would qualify, but he would be seriously outgunned outdoors. There is absolutely no advantage on a 250 2t vs a 450F...
Yeah, I remember. Okay, he would qualify, but he would be seriously outgunned outdoors. There is absolutely no advantage on a 250 2t vs a 450F outdoors. The diplacement is too great of a handicap.
Actually, there's a weight advantage, which helps on some tracks. And, you put the top 5 on smokers, the 4-strokes won't see a title.
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DrSweden 2/16/2012 12:58pm
2/16/2012 12:58pm Edited Date/Time 2/16/2012 12:58pm
Surfinglbi23 wrote:
Anyone have a copy of the video that guys references in the thread you linked to?
Anyone have a copy of the video that guys references in the thread you linked to?
^This!^ I didn't find it either?

Epic picture, made me feel happy. Dunno why, and Freud is dead, so go figure...
burn1986
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burn1986 2/16/2012 1:11pm
2/16/2012 1:11pm Edited Date/Time 2/16/2012 1:14pm
jtomasik wrote:
Actually, there's a weight advantage, which helps on some tracks. And, you put the top 5 on smokers, the 4-strokes won't see a title.
There is a slight weight advantage. Even though it will never happen, the top 5 riders would make it close, but they would not dominate. In fact, they would lose out to the next 5 guys on the 450s.

Now indoors is a different story.
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jtomasik 2/16/2012 1:33pm
2/16/2012 1:33pm
burn1986 wrote:
There is a slight weight advantage. Even though it will never happen, the top 5 riders would make it close, but they would not dominate. In...
There is a slight weight advantage. Even though it will never happen, the top 5 riders would make it close, but they would not dominate. In fact, they would lose out to the next 5 guys on the 450s.

Now indoors is a different story.
Bullshit. There's a separation between the top 5 and the rest of the field that's similar to the RC days when he rode the smoker and others rode 4-strokes.
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drmarkr 2/16/2012 1:50pm
2/16/2012 1:50pm
8686 wrote:
How on earth can this happen??? Oh yeah.....there's no way any of the top names in SX or outdoors MX would be able to even compete...
How on earth can this happen??? Oh yeah.....there's no way any of the top names in SX or outdoors MX would be able to even compete against the 450 foopers on a 250cc 2 stroke. No way. Don't even think about it. Stop thinking about it. It's dumb. No way it could happen.

http://otmx100.websitetoolbox.com/post/GH-Transworld-Race-5698917
iRidePhotos wrote:
And RV2 also holeshot the MX3 class at MXDN a few years back on a 250f. Dont get me wrong, thats a epic picture, but just...
And RV2 also holeshot the MX3 class at MXDN a few years back on a 250f. Dont get me wrong, thats a epic picture, but just because one dude holeshots some 450's on a smoker doesnt mean its a Competitive machine at the pro level these days. To many disadvantages. This is coming from a guy who lives smokers too.
He's only halfway up the start at GH in that pic....someone who was there tell us if he was there at the first turn??

I've done the same thing on a big bore 304 against 450's on that start straight....just to about that point. And from there to the turn they ate my fuggin lunch.
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KAWboy14 2/16/2012 1:53pm
2/16/2012 1:53pm
there are some kids on 80cc 2 strokes that could win that class!
8686
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8686 2/16/2012 1:54pm
2/16/2012 1:54pm
8686 wrote:
How on earth can this happen??? Oh yeah.....there's no way any of the top names in SX or outdoors MX would be able to even compete...
How on earth can this happen??? Oh yeah.....there's no way any of the top names in SX or outdoors MX would be able to even compete against the 450 foopers on a 250cc 2 stroke. No way. Don't even think about it. Stop thinking about it. It's dumb. No way it could happen.

http://otmx100.websitetoolbox.com/post/GH-Transworld-Race-5698917
iRidePhotos wrote:
And RV2 also holeshot the MX3 class at MXDN a few years back on a 250f. Dont get me wrong, thats a epic picture, but just...
And RV2 also holeshot the MX3 class at MXDN a few years back on a 250f. Dont get me wrong, thats a epic picture, but just because one dude holeshots some 450's on a smoker doesnt mean its a Competitive machine at the pro level these days. To many disadvantages. This is coming from a guy who lives smokers too.
drmarkr wrote:
He's only halfway up the start at GH in that pic....someone who was there tell us if he was there at the first turn?? I've done...
He's only halfway up the start at GH in that pic....someone who was there tell us if he was there at the first turn??

I've done the same thing on a big bore 304 against 450's on that start straight....just to about that point. And from there to the turn they ate my fuggin lunch.
Lol. Good point and I'm not sure. Just thought it was a cool pic and I'm a 2 stroke fan. Smile
burn1986
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burn1986 2/16/2012 2:00pm
2/16/2012 2:00pm Edited Date/Time 2/16/2012 2:00pm
burn1986 wrote:
There is a slight weight advantage. Even though it will never happen, the top 5 riders would make it close, but they would not dominate. In...
There is a slight weight advantage. Even though it will never happen, the top 5 riders would make it close, but they would not dominate. In fact, they would lose out to the next 5 guys on the 450s.

Now indoors is a different story.
jtomasik wrote:
Bullshit. There's a separation between the top 5 and the rest of the field that's similar to the RC days when he rode the smoker and...
Bullshit. There's a separation between the top 5 and the rest of the field that's similar to the RC days when he rode the smoker and others rode 4-strokes.
Well, I disagree that there wouldn't be any change in the running order. RV is gonna haul a-- no matter what, but he would get beat straight up by Dungey, Reed, and Stewart if he was on the 2-stroke. Look at the change for Henry. Yeah, he was still fast on the 2-stroke, but the 400 was just too advantageous against the smaller bikes. Windham gave RC fits at Unadilla when RC was on the 2-stroke.
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GrapeApe 2/16/2012 2:01pm
2/16/2012 2:01pm
From the horse's mouth:

"watch the video to see how i get caught at the end of the straight".

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