Tracks separating boys from men

danymx1
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danymx1
Edited Date/Time 2/13/2012 1:45pm
I kind of understand that some riders get frustrated when easier tracks are leveling the field after all the hard work the teams put into a championship effort.
But at the same time when I see someone crashing out of some difficult obstacle I wonder if it's worth risking to lose some more riders from the series.
At San Diego for example it seemed odd that riders like Stewart, Dungey, Windham Tomac, and many others all struggled in the whoops when they are the sport top riders on the best equipment.
Why build obstacles that even the elite class has to gamble every lap between staying on two wheels or risk injuries?
Supercross is already a dangerous sport and already we are missing so many riders this season.
I tend to believe that toning down the track difficulty would promote closer racing and allow for small mistakes.

Just a tought
What do you guys think?
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TDeath21
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TDeath21 2/12/2012 5:44pm
2/12/2012 5:44pm
They don't have to take those risks if they don't want to. They have the option of doing the obstacle differently at any time they want to. Every rider has to deal with the same thing. I don't see a problem.
bns99121
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bns99121 2/12/2012 5:45pm
2/12/2012 5:45pm
That is what makes it exciting they can slow down if they want to.
lastlapracer302 2/12/2012 5:49pm
2/12/2012 5:49pm
Screw it, lets just change the sport to model dirt tracking... one big circle BUT with a single in the middle of one of the straights to do a whippertail on... Would that suit you better?
danymx1
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danymx1 2/12/2012 6:06pm
2/12/2012 6:06pm
lastlapracer302 wrote:
Screw it, lets just change the sport to model dirt tracking... one big circle BUT with a single in the middle of one of the straights...
Screw it, lets just change the sport to model dirt tracking... one big circle BUT with a single in the middle of one of the straights to do a whippertail on... Would that suit you better?
Who is talking about dirt track?
don't you think it's possible to have a SX track that is challenging, yet safer.

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AUS_Twisted
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AUS_Twisted 2/12/2012 7:17pm
2/12/2012 7:17pm
lastlapracer302 wrote:
Screw it, lets just change the sport to model dirt tracking... one big circle BUT with a single in the middle of one of the straights...
Screw it, lets just change the sport to model dirt tracking... one big circle BUT with a single in the middle of one of the straights to do a whippertail on... Would that suit you better?
danymx1 wrote:
Who is talking about dirt track?
don't you think it's possible to have a SX track that is challenging, yet safer.
No then everyone will be doing the same shit and it becomes boring then. I've been to a few SX's with whoop sections like that and it makes the racing exciting to watch every lap with sections like that especially when you had guys like RV and Reed being consistently fast through them.
peelout
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peelout 2/12/2012 7:22pm
2/12/2012 7:22pm
they should just do away with whoops, triples, corners, and anything else anyone has crashed on thus far
crashnburn11 2/12/2012 7:28pm
2/12/2012 7:28pm Edited Date/Time 2/12/2012 7:28pm
peelout wrote:
they should just do away with whoops, triples, corners, and anything else anyone has crashed on thus far
yeah, the start straight too, shorty crashed pretty hard on that obstacle. Really, we should just run each guy on their own around a dirt oval, and fastest time wins; But you get penalized if you go too fast, because that could start to get unsafe
exsarg
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exsarg 2/12/2012 7:37pm
2/12/2012 7:37pm
great racing and no one got hurt bad. at least i hope everyone is ok. tomac?? but all it would have taken is kw to break a bone and i woul agree.
ME686
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ME686 2/12/2012 11:06pm
2/12/2012 11:06pm
Last nights track was the shit. Whoops have always been part of sx; why the hell would you want to take out a section that challenges the best riders in the world to perform at their best every lap? I bought my tickets to watch these guys do shit I cant do, so lets not "spread the wealth" and pussify the tracks. Cool with you?
neverwasfastenuf 2/12/2012 11:31pm
2/12/2012 11:31pm
danymx1 wrote:
I kind of understand that some riders get frustrated when easier tracks are leveling the field after all the hard work the teams put into a...
I kind of understand that some riders get frustrated when easier tracks are leveling the field after all the hard work the teams put into a championship effort.
But at the same time when I see someone crashing out of some difficult obstacle I wonder if it's worth risking to lose some more riders from the series.
At San Diego for example it seemed odd that riders like Stewart, Dungey, Windham Tomac, and many others all struggled in the whoops when they are the sport top riders on the best equipment.
Why build obstacles that even the elite class has to gamble every lap between staying on two wheels or risk injuries?
Supercross is already a dangerous sport and already we are missing so many riders this season.
I tend to believe that toning down the track difficulty would promote closer racing and allow for small mistakes.

Just a tought
What do you guys think?
And (toning down the whoops) that's exactly what they did the week before when not all of the elite were able to negotiate that section with the same success. For some reason it wasn't a "safety issue" this week but the whoops bit some pretty good guys pretty hard that don't hit the deck that often. They just need to be uniform in either adjusting the track or leaving the track the way it's designed. I guess the squeaky wheel gets the grease.
Old Mate
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Old Mate 2/12/2012 11:34pm
2/12/2012 11:34pm
Train the whoops as much as Chad.
Crush
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Crush 2/13/2012 3:32am
2/13/2012 3:32am
I think the technical tracks are safer... The riders self protection kicks in more if they think it's too much... It might not be as close sometimes but the top guys are gonna do it anyways and there is always gonna be battles on the track with guys who are evenly matched...
SwapperMX
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SwapperMX 2/13/2012 3:54am
2/13/2012 3:54am
Yeah, the track issue has been one massive debate that has run for the last couple of years. And it is because the tracks are too easy. The tracks should be more technical and challenging, not easier. Slow them down by building the upramps and downramps steeper, the whoops bigger, the rhythm sections more technical etc. I have been real glad to watch the races the last couple of weeks cos it seemed that the dirt wurx crew had finally been listeneing, and the tracks have finally started to get real gnarly. Really good to see. Build the tracks up, not scale them back.
TerryK
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TerryK 2/13/2012 5:28am
2/13/2012 5:28am
The op sort of has a point. Most of the track was fine, but imo those whoops were dangerous. Many riders got into big trouble in the including KW and Tomac. All the top riders said the the whoops were what decided the race. The only guys that were blitzing them were the to 5. How does that make for better racing?
SwapperMX
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SwapperMX 2/13/2012 5:53am
2/13/2012 5:53am
It makes for better racing because the obstacles are challenging, therefore some riders are bound to make mistakes, giving other riders the chance to pass the rider who has bobbled, run off the track etc. I dont want to see guys hurt, but a 20 lap precession with very little passing after the first lap is bogus, and not what supercross is about. Notice after A2 the posts that were put up on twitter from industry guys. Claims that the racing was some of the most boring racing they had ever witnessed. That should never happen, it's the world's premiere supercross series, but that track was tamed down after practice when riders struggled, especially in the whoops, and the racing was ho hum. Seriously, for the guys that doubt the fact, go and watch some races from early 2000's. Some awesome racing on great tracks. Lets bring that back !!
honda341
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honda341 2/13/2012 5:54am
2/13/2012 5:54am
THIS IS MOTOCROSS/SUPERCROSS!!!!! Like someone else said. I go to these events to watch people do things I can't. That track looked incredibly easy this past weekend except for the whoops. Every track is going to have something that sets people apart. Whether it be rough gnarly turns with rollers all the way through them, technical triples, or cupped out whoops. The people that are better should be rewarded. Not the people that don't put in the time to train and set up their equipment or the people that don't realize their limits. I am a huge KW14, Tomac and Dungey fan. All had a rough time in the whoops. But that is what makes this sport great. The guy with the skills and tenacity and possibly luck wins. So no do not make the tracks easier or more toned down to suit the masses. This is the top of our sport. They get paid to race the hardest tracks. Let them race the hard tracks and lets see brilliance shine through.
IWreckALot
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IWreckALot 2/13/2012 7:45am
2/13/2012 7:45am
TerryK wrote:
The op sort of has a point. Most of the track was fine, but imo those whoops were dangerous. Many riders got into big trouble in...
The op sort of has a point. Most of the track was fine, but imo those whoops were dangerous. Many riders got into big trouble in the including KW and Tomac. All the top riders said the the whoops were what decided the race. The only guys that were blitzing them were the to 5. How does that make for better racing?
The top two were pseudo blitzing them. All of the other riders were doing their best to get through them. I think it's good to have a pleathora of obstacles throughout the season. If they had this particular set of whoops at each track, I might disagree with the whoops but IMO it just adds to the variety that we see throughout the season. No need to go changing their business model over one race. . .

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danymx1
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danymx1 2/13/2012 7:47am
2/13/2012 7:47am Edited Date/Time 2/13/2012 10:25am
The main reason to behind my post is obstacles like these whoops seemed dangerous more than technical.
In a way that you could go very fast blitzing them leaving very little room for error.
And the thing is; it bit riders that were good through them more than slower riders
In my opinion, the size of the whoops were not the problem at San Diego but rather the shape and the speed through them.
I agree with most saying that technical tracks are often safer than fast, easy tracks.
I certainly don't have any problem with technical tracks but also I think it is possible to get safe obstacles while keeping the challenge.
RaceFace
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RaceFace 2/13/2012 8:01am
2/13/2012 8:01am
TerryK wrote:
The op sort of has a point. Most of the track was fine, but imo those whoops were dangerous. Many riders got into big trouble in...
The op sort of has a point. Most of the track was fine, but imo those whoops were dangerous. Many riders got into big trouble in the including KW and Tomac. All the top riders said the the whoops were what decided the race. The only guys that were blitzing them were the to 5. How does that make for better racing?
I agree completely. And I'll go one step further as no one was really blitzing them, as much as getting through with some speed. Third - fifth did not look good at all in them and were far from blitzing them. Reed even said he was on the ragged edge and had to be fully committed to them which means one little error becomes monumental and possibly an injury. We have all become too dependant on the obstacles when most races are won in the corners in SX or outside. Stewart is one guy that I see who pays too much attention to trying to win on the obstacles instead of with corner speed. With RV I see a guy who does the obstacles as good as anyone but is often losing time there before getting into the corners and really making up the time. Whether a track is easy or impossible, it still takes skill to win on it. Smaller whoops that are that long are still difficult and can still be used to make up time and pass on, using skill and balls. As far as dirt track, the most skilled guy is still the guy that wins even though they only have 4 corners to negotiate. We all hate to lose guys to injury yet some have no issues with making obstacles so dangerous that it almost guarantees injuries are coming. If one of the top 4 SX riders on the planet(Dungey) does go the route of avoiding the risk of injury on an obstacle by slowing down, there is a problem. Is that what we want to see? Everyone slowing down for an obstacle because it is so difficult? SX can't be a survival run because death is a very real possibility. I would rather see whoops that can be blitzed by the top 10 at varying speeds than whoops that the leader is having trouble with. Why not throw in some mud pits and offcamber logs as well? As if any guy on a Pro SX track can be described in this "men from the boys manner". They're all badasses on a bike.
RaceFace
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RaceFace 2/13/2012 8:10am
2/13/2012 8:10am
honda341 wrote:
THIS IS MOTOCROSS/SUPERCROSS!!!!! Like someone else said. I go to these events to watch people do things I can't. That track looked incredibly easy this past...
THIS IS MOTOCROSS/SUPERCROSS!!!!! Like someone else said. I go to these events to watch people do things I can't. That track looked incredibly easy this past weekend except for the whoops. Every track is going to have something that sets people apart. Whether it be rough gnarly turns with rollers all the way through them, technical triples, or cupped out whoops. The people that are better should be rewarded. Not the people that don't put in the time to train and set up their equipment or the people that don't realize their limits. I am a huge KW14, Tomac and Dungey fan. All had a rough time in the whoops. But that is what makes this sport great. The guy with the skills and tenacity and possibly luck wins. So no do not make the tracks easier or more toned down to suit the masses. This is the top of our sport. They get paid to race the hardest tracks. Let them race the hard tracks and lets see brilliance shine through.
Mentality like this confuses me. Look at football. Is the field in the Pros designed to be more challenging than at the PeeWee level? The competition and talent that takes that field is what makes Pro football different than PeeWee football. Southwick is a great all-world MX track, yet it has no ridiculous, impossible obstacles. You could easily go out and negotiate it, as I have many times. You can go slow, or you can go fast. You never come around though fearing for your safety by attempting any of it, yet it will certainly separate the men from the boys quickly. SX is the same. Yeah no one wants to see a simple peewee track, but there is zero reason why any obstacle has to be near impossible or in any way make or break to be competitive. They could easily make obstacles that they all would have to roll, so there is a happy medium here. The best racing is going to be when more people are able to negotiate obstacles properly, not less. Most of us watch for the racing, not seeing guys negotiate obstacles we can't do. Trials is really cool for that purpose.
lucero10x
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lucero10x 2/13/2012 8:17am
2/13/2012 8:17am
You guys want boring racing? Have some of the top guys get hurt. Think 2010, JS, CR, RV. I know only one was because of a stupid ass part of the track, but it sure got boring after he destroyed his tib/fib.
Awhit167
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Awhit167 2/13/2012 9:17am
2/13/2012 9:17am
i agree that the whoops make the race more entertaining to watch but, did anyone get a close look at the whoops in sd? i got to walk the track and the face of the whoop was huge, then the top of the whoops were flat. i dont care who you are or how good you are any one would have trouble in the ghetto whoops like the ones they built for SD
GuyB
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GuyB 2/13/2012 9:41am
2/13/2012 9:41am
Awhit167 wrote:
i agree that the whoops make the race more entertaining to watch but, did anyone get a close look at the whoops in sd? i got...
i agree that the whoops make the race more entertaining to watch but, did anyone get a close look at the whoops in sd? i got to walk the track and the face of the whoop was huge, then the top of the whoops were flat. i dont care who you are or how good you are any one would have trouble in the ghetto whoops like the ones they built for SD
FIREfish148
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FIREfish148 2/13/2012 10:17am
2/13/2012 10:17am
damn b! looks like the far right or far left would be the line of choice... those things are nasty! was that clay or what? looks like theres some gravel in that dirt...
151
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151 2/13/2012 12:53pm
2/13/2012 12:53pm
Keep in mind this isn't an obstical course, it's a race track.

Riders actually are limited in line choices, unless they want to get landed on.

If we go one direction with track design, we get flat track, the other we get trials. The problem is that motocross at its best is not a perfect fit for a spectator sport.

I am confident dirt werx or any of the big track builders could design a fast and safe track. However, doing that in a stadium and in a way that monster truck fans will enjoy watching is going to be much more difficult.

As for me I like to watch a good race, whoops suck. Yes they are difficult, but do they add to the racing?
ninety3
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ninety3 2/13/2012 12:55pm
2/13/2012 12:55pm
GuyB wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/users/64/photos/55937/s1600_021312whoops.jpg[/img]
More up close pics of the track like this, every week PLEASE !
GHR
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GHR 2/13/2012 1:05pm
2/13/2012 1:05pm
The series needs to have an occasional race here and there to throw a curve ball like this. Last man standing will be the best and no matter what there will be an element of luck to the winner.
peelout
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peelout 2/13/2012 1:45pm
2/13/2012 1:45pm
151 wrote:
Keep in mind this isn't an obstical course, it's a race track. Riders actually are limited in line choices, unless they want to get landed on...
Keep in mind this isn't an obstical course, it's a race track.

Riders actually are limited in line choices, unless they want to get landed on.

If we go one direction with track design, we get flat track, the other we get trials. The problem is that motocross at its best is not a perfect fit for a spectator sport.

I am confident dirt werx or any of the big track builders could design a fast and safe track. However, doing that in a stadium and in a way that monster truck fans will enjoy watching is going to be much more difficult.

As for me I like to watch a good race, whoops suck. Yes they are difficult, but do they add to the racing?
As for me I like to watch a good race, whoops suck. Yes they are difficult, but do they add to the racing?


they provide a passing point.

one thing every track is guilty of is not providing good passing areas.

tough whoops do this.

it's not supposed to be easy. all 20 guys aren't supposed to be perfect in them.

look back to the 2000 and 2001 series, those whoops back then were unfuckinreal. you guys think the San Diego whoops were tough....

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