Catastrophic oil failure

Pdub
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Wheaton, MD, USA
Edited Date/Time 8/17/2012 6:18pm
Just wondering if anyone has ever had an engine failure due to using low quality lubricant. I mean, I know we all have our own favorite brands for various reasons, but at the end of the day, oil is oil, right? And the idea of obtaining any performance advantage by switching brands of oil is kind of remote I would think.

Just trying to figure out why mechanics would choose one brand over another. I remember when I bought my first two-stroke ('74 125 Elsinore), the previous owner insisted on using Blendzall pre-mix. I used it for a while, but later switched to Bel-Ray solely because I was a huge Roger Decoster fan, and The Man used Bel-Ray. Could't tell any difference in performance or reliability.

I know the oil ads make all sorts of claims, but that's just marketing right?
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newmann
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1/19/2012 11:26am
As kids, we would put anything in our bikes. Never had an oil related failure back then. Fouled a lot of plugs along the way though.
kongols
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Riga, LV
1/19/2012 11:30am Edited Date/Time 1/19/2012 11:31am
We had problems when we switched from Suzuki to KTM. Suzuki ran on anything, KTM needed a top notch oil. We were advised to use Denicol oils for 2T(haven`t had a problem ever since we started using it). Two engines were ruined because of improper oil.
40Plus_922mx
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1/19/2012 11:34am
927 40:1 Love that smell!
Moto East Mag
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1/19/2012 11:41am
I would imagine you are looking more at incremental damage due to increased friction than an all-at-once failure due to low quality oil. I think the quality of oil would make a difference in the life expectancy of your engine.

The Shop

1/19/2012 11:43am Edited Date/Time 1/19/2012 11:49am
927 40:1 Love that smell!
when i worked at a shop we sold a lot of Blendzall to ditch bankers. they would buy it for the smell. LOL. and then complain about oil "leaking" from their exhaust "tip". when you tell them its because they aint on the gas enough, they insist they are. "i beat a crf 450 on this RM 125 in a drag race" i heard that a lot actually LOL. and they want to rejet super lean. its simple: if you never rev the bike, castor oil burns dirty, and you get spooge out of the muffler. slower guys should use a synthetic oil: burns clean for them. if you are a track rider, I do think 927 is the best premix by far.
motogeezer
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Yorba Linda, CA, USA
1/19/2012 11:43am
I started using Motul 800 two bikes ago, and after seeing the condition of all the internals when changing my piston for the first time after running the stuff, I'll never use anything else.

I've used everything from bean oil, to Bel-Ray, to Yamalube over the years and have never seen anything that runs that clean.

Nothing smells as good as bean oil, though. Cool
CR500Rider
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1/19/2012 12:06pm
I've poured 30 weight motor oil in the injection system on my 66' Yamaha YM-1. Still runs good.
mrquick
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Union City, TN, USA
1/19/2012 12:07pm
927 ftw
1/19/2012 12:09pm
motorex makes a smokeless 100:1 two stroke oil, and that is what I use in my RGV250, however, this is an autolube system that just trickles a little oil where it needs to be trickled. nothing but gas in the tank.

If i was premixing it, probably that motul 800 at about 50:1
Pdub
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1/19/2012 1:02pm
I would imagine you are looking more at incremental damage due to increased friction than an all-at-once failure due to low quality oil. I think the...
I would imagine you are looking more at incremental damage due to increased friction than an all-at-once failure due to low quality oil. I think the quality of oil would make a difference in the life expectancy of your engine.
That's what I would think too, particularly in the four-strokes. But then we're talking about life expectancy over the course of perhaps hundreds of hours of use?

What I'm trying to figure out is why a professional race team mechanic would choose one name brand over another... aren't they all good enough for the short expected lives of racebike engines?
drmarkr
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1/19/2012 1:05pm
I would imagine you are looking more at incremental damage due to increased friction than an all-at-once failure due to low quality oil. I think the...
I would imagine you are looking more at incremental damage due to increased friction than an all-at-once failure due to low quality oil. I think the quality of oil would make a difference in the life expectancy of your engine.
Pdub wrote:
That's what I would think too, particularly in the four-strokes. But then we're talking about life expectancy over the course of perhaps hundreds of hours of...
That's what I would think too, particularly in the four-strokes. But then we're talking about life expectancy over the course of perhaps hundreds of hours of use?

What I'm trying to figure out is why a professional race team mechanic would choose one name brand over another... aren't they all good enough for the short expected lives of racebike engines?
" ....why a professional race team mechanic would choose one name brand over another..."

Seriously????
Sandberm
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1/19/2012 1:07pm
I prefer useing EVO over Canola, though I doubt a catastrophe will result from useing one over the other.
Falcon
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1/19/2012 1:08pm
Race mechanics are human, so they have preferences like the rest of us.

Different oils do have measurable differences, but we're talking about brand X exceeding the minimum requirements by 200% when brand Y only exceeds them by 190%. Not much to worry about with modern oils. By the way, race teams often run thinner viscosity oils for less fluid drag. This results in increased horsepower at the expense of more wear.

In a nutshell: change your oil often and don't skimp on the filter changes either. You shouldn't have any troubles.
Highsider
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1/19/2012 1:09pm Edited Date/Time 1/19/2012 1:09pm
Pdub- you gotta stop buying that Pep Boys-brand!Laughing
Denny979
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1/19/2012 1:25pm
Many years ago I was riding in a gravel pit not far from my place when a friend showed up on his 78 YZ 250. Said he used the last of my premix oil and would replace it. When I got home I found an empty bottle of Golden Specro Gear Saver.
He never knew the differance.
Pdub
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1/19/2012 1:36pm
Sandberm wrote:
I prefer useing EVO over Canola, though I doubt a catastrophe will result from useing one over the other.
That's hilarious! But then, you could be serious too...?
Pdub
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1/19/2012 1:42pm
drmarkr wrote:
" ....why a professional race team mechanic would choose one name brand over another..."

Seriously????
Well, yeah... Blush

I mean, I get that there's personal preference and then there's the issue of sponsorships, and a guy might end up using a brand he doesn't personally prefer, but since they pay the bills... I guess my point is, outside of sponsorship realities, one name brand oil is just as good as the other for engines that get rebuilt after every event anyway. Am I right?
exsarg
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CA
1/19/2012 2:30pm
great quwestion--never !!! ive always used expensive oils but in all honesty i dont think it makes as much difference as people think. mabey for the clutch
RbR
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1/19/2012 2:49pm
Maxima 927 back in the 80s. Loved the smell ... hated cleaning the gummed up power valves, but loved the smell.
Moto East Mag
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1/19/2012 2:59pm
Howzabout Amsoil? That stuff is supposed to be developed for aviation use. It's reps talk about it like its the secret nectar of the Gods.
reded
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1/19/2012 3:39pm
Amsoil makes damn good 2st oil, seems to burn really clean. I'm also a believer in the 927 but when push comes to shove I'd spray a can of WD-40 in 5gal of gas if it meant the difference between riding or not.
2smokers
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1/19/2012 3:51pm
Ive always ran motul 800 in my 2t. Talked to some engine builders and they said this keeps the internals in the best condition like stated above.
BobbyM
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1/20/2012 6:31am
golden bear exclusively.
CamP
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1/20/2012 7:27am
I run $11/gal Walmart Supertech in my thumpers and $7/quart Lucas in my smokers.

Engine failures are almost never a result of the oil brand you use.
CamP
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Colleyville, TX, USA
1/20/2012 7:29am Edited Date/Time 1/20/2012 7:37am
kongols wrote:
We had problems when we switched from Suzuki to KTM. Suzuki ran on anything, KTM needed a top notch oil. We were advised to use Denicol...
We had problems when we switched from Suzuki to KTM. Suzuki ran on anything, KTM needed a top notch oil. We were advised to use Denicol oils for 2T(haven`t had a problem ever since we started using it). Two engines were ruined because of improper oil.
"Two engines were ruined because of improper oil."

That sounds highly unlikely. Something else was probably the culprit.

The only thing you really have to avoid is "energy conserving" oils in the tranny. They'll make your clutch slip. Anything else will work fine as long as you run the proper viscosity and change it on sane intervals. If you need to run "special" oil to keep an engine alive, something is wrong with the engine.
wardy
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USA
1/20/2012 7:35am
it's all changed now that the conspiracy of 4 strokes have taken hold. We all know that you have to use a specific oil and hence the reason for thumpers.

oil companier lobbied for it "secretly" of course.

Tongue
ga_pike
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Valdosta, GA, USA
1/20/2012 7:37am
Back in the late 80's, Kawasaki oil was the best! At High Point, we observed one of the factory Kawi mechanics pouring Kawai oil into Bel Ray bottles (Kawi was sponsored by Bel Ray at the time). Rumor was the Kawi oil was made by Maxima but I don't know if that's true. We started using Maxima after I received a sponsorship.
dcg141
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USA
1/20/2012 8:18am Edited Date/Time 1/20/2012 8:19am
I have seen alot of catastrophic oil failures. Every one of them was from neglect or abuse. Not enough oil..improper oil for the application..not chainging oil at required intervals. I have never seen a lubrication failure when the right kind of oil was used in the correct amount and changed as required.
Hoov
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Manhattan, KS, USA
1/20/2012 8:37am
drmarkr wrote:
" ....why a professional race team mechanic would choose one name brand over another..."

Seriously????
Pdub wrote:
Well, yeah... :blush: I mean, I get that there's personal preference and then there's the issue of sponsorships, and a guy might end up using a...
Well, yeah... Blush

I mean, I get that there's personal preference and then there's the issue of sponsorships, and a guy might end up using a brand he doesn't personally prefer, but since they pay the bills... I guess my point is, outside of sponsorship realities, one name brand oil is just as good as the other for engines that get rebuilt after every event anyway. Am I right?
I've always had a sneakin' suspicion there was something other than Redbull or Monster in those cans the riders display so prominently on the podium too....just sayin' Wink
ridge
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Apple Valley, CA, USA
1/20/2012 8:55am
First thing I thought of after reading the title was KTM.

I was totally wrong though and it wasn't until the 3rd post down where I saw it.

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