Resurgence of the 2 stroke

ocscottie
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ocscottie 1/19/2012 3:40pm
1/19/2012 3:40pm Edited Date/Time 1/19/2012 3:46pm
Charles, does this pic ring a bell?

reded
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reded 1/19/2012 3:41pm
1/19/2012 3:41pm Edited Date/Time 1/19/2012 3:42pm
Charles Bronson wrote:
The problem is not the fun factor, it is the availability. I know for a fact there would be a lot less people bitching if you...
The problem is not the fun factor, it is the availability. I know for a fact there would be a lot less people bitching if you could walk into a yamaha kawasaki suzuki or honda dealer and there was a 2 stroke for every four stroke, and they had the same chassis and suspension development, and the engines werent neglected.

does not matter how fun a two stroke is, at this point we are all riding 7 year old bikes, unless its a ktm. 7 years. had you said people would be racing 7 year old bikes back in 1999, you'd have gotten laughed at.

I want to see this thing with no lights and a 19in rear wheel so badly.
If the bikes you speak of were available, this thread would not exist, then what would we argue about?
mxking6
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mxking6 1/19/2012 3:47pm
1/19/2012 3:47pm
burn1986 wrote:
Not to beat this into the ground, but I think mxking may be thinking of a car engine, which a spark is send via a distributor...
Not to beat this into the ground, but I think mxking may be thinking of a car engine, which a spark is send via a distributor, instead of a motorcycle.
mxking6 wrote:
Oh I am well aware of the fact that some 4-strokes spark at the plug on every revolution, but they do not fire on every revolution...
Oh I am well aware of the fact that some 4-strokes spark at the plug on every revolution, but they do not fire on every revolution.

To fire an engine needs three things:

1. fuel mixture
2. compression
3. spark

On stroke 4 a 4-stroke is at least missing number 2. and hopefully most of number 1. also.

They do not fire twice per complete cycle.
reded wrote:
I believe somewhere in these 7 pages I told you that we were talking about the fucking sparkplug firing every revolution and you lol'ed. Did we...
I believe somewhere in these 7 pages I told you that we were talking about the fucking sparkplug firing every revolution and you lol'ed. Did we do a bit of research between then and now? I'm not aware of any current 4stroke MXer that incorporates a cam trigger. They are all triggered at the crank, therefore the sparkplug fires (sparks) on every revolution. If there is one that is cam triggered I'll stand corrected.
Do you really think I would have to research this???

The word being used was fire........spark does not equal fire. Sorry if I miss-read your post.

It doesn't really matter. Like the whole 2-vs-4 argument from 1998......I'm over it.

At least I don't get protested for my Husaberg being too fast for the Senior A classes any more.
88sdad
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88sdad 1/19/2012 3:52pm
1/19/2012 3:52pm
ocscottie wrote:
Charles, does this pic ring a bell? [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/users/29628/avatar/s1600_damon.jpg[/img]
Charles, does this pic ring a bell?

HAR!

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zippy895
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zippy895 1/19/2012 3:58pm
1/19/2012 3:58pm
reded wrote:
If the bikes you speak of were available, this thread would not exist, then what would we argue about?
ralph Shaheen
DirtyFilter75
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DirtyFilter75 1/19/2012 4:14pm
1/19/2012 4:14pm
Charles Bronson wrote:
The problem is not the fun factor, it is the availability. I know for a fact there would be a lot less people bitching if you...
The problem is not the fun factor, it is the availability. I know for a fact there would be a lot less people bitching if you could walk into a yamaha kawasaki suzuki or honda dealer and there was a 2 stroke for every four stroke, and they had the same chassis and suspension development, and the engines werent neglected.

does not matter how fun a two stroke is, at this point we are all riding 7 year old bikes, unless its a ktm. 7 years. had you said people would be racing 7 year old bikes back in 1999, you'd have gotten laughed at.

I want to see this thing with no lights and a 19in rear wheel so badly.
566 posts is a hell of a run. Congrats! Now GTO!
Hando
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Hando 1/19/2012 4:24pm
1/19/2012 4:24pm
Many of you are forgetting the AMA killed the 2-stroke by outlawing leaded fuel..

if smokers were allowed to have leaded oxygenated fuel things would be significantly less slanted.
DirtyFilter75
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DirtyFilter75 1/19/2012 4:31pm
1/19/2012 4:31pm
ocscottie wrote:
Charles, does this pic ring a bell? [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/users/29628/avatar/s1600_damon.jpg[/img]
Charles, does this pic ring a bell?

OldYZRider1
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OldYZRider1 1/19/2012 4:44pm
1/19/2012 4:44pm
TallCan 16 wrote:
Why do people care about the pro class rules? How many of you guys are going to race an AMA pro class? I'm guessing most arguing...
Why do people care about the pro class rules? How many of you guys are going to race an AMA pro class?

I'm guessing most arguing here, if they actually race, would race the vet class - you can run whatever you want! 2 stroke or 4 just ride it and/or race it and have fun! 125/250/500 2strokes and 250/450 4-strokes, I love riding them all. What is most competitive in an open cc class? I think it comes down to the rider more than the machine.

And here's something to argue into the ground: I'm pretty sure Honda tried to develop a next-gen 2-stroke and realized it was getting more complicated than a 4-stroke...
goonslurkin316 wrote:
One right here. I hate to join in on this crap, I feel like I'm on a youtube page of timmy's first race and everyone's arguing...
One right here. I hate to join in on this crap, I feel like I'm on a youtube page of timmy's first race and everyone's arguing about which is faster, a 2-stroke or 4-stroke. If a rider is fast, they are going to succeed no matter what. 5,000 dollar motors, 2-stroke, 4-stroke whatever, isn't going to propel a rider to the top. I've raced for 14 years now and am 19 years old. I was starting to get serious when the 4-stroke era really began, and I've never ever owned a 4-stroke motorcycle. 2-strokes from 60's to an 09 250 2 stroke now in the A class and I am not ANTI-4 STROKE. I realize some people are obsessed with 2-strokes and that's fine, but who cares what people choose to ride. We all are in this sport for the same reason. Sorry to ramble, anyways, the only reason I have a dog in this fight is because I'm hoping to try for some outdoor nationals in 2013 and maybe, just maybe, some supercross although I've ridden a professional sx track once in my entire life. I'm in a predicament as far as how I'm going to do that with the rules currently how they are. As I understand, I'm not allowed to try in the 450 class my first year of pro racing, so that cancels out my request of my comfortability on my 2-stroke (although I'd feel like a huge goon taking that to a national) and a 450 that I would think I'd enjoy. So the only option I see is to get a 250f, not really sure how I can afford to purchase or maintain it, and try that. I know the AMA and mxsports have ties with the manufacturers, and the big companies have a big part in what bikes are allowed. So the only reason I, a 2-stroke veteran, care about this topic is because of how amateur rules can let (although rarely) a rider progress and develop on a 2-stroke their entire amateur career; and then the biggest stage of a rider's life, at the pro level, stop them and not allow a 2-stroke to have an equal opportunity against 4-stroke machines it's similar to. That's the only reason I care about the resurgence of the 2-stroke.
Great post. Illustrates a situation that will surely be affecting more and more guys since the equal displacement rules were put in effect for amateur racing and more guys like you elect to ride two strokes.
loftyair
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loftyair 1/19/2012 6:31pm
1/19/2012 6:31pm
Charles Bronson wrote:
The problem is not the fun factor, it is the availability. I know for a fact there would be a lot less people bitching if you...
The problem is not the fun factor, it is the availability. I know for a fact there would be a lot less people bitching if you could walk into a yamaha kawasaki suzuki or honda dealer and there was a 2 stroke for every four stroke, and they had the same chassis and suspension development, and the engines werent neglected.

does not matter how fun a two stroke is, at this point we are all riding 7 year old bikes, unless its a ktm. 7 years. had you said people would be racing 7 year old bikes back in 1999, you'd have gotten laughed at.

I want to see this thing with no lights and a 19in rear wheel so badly.
DirtyFilter75 wrote:
566 posts is a hell of a run. Congrats! Now GTO!
LIKE
MX558
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MX558 1/19/2012 7:09pm
1/19/2012 7:09pm
I always raced (for 25 yrs.)2t's until 03 when I got hurt. I went back to RR for a while but still rode mx a little. In 09 I came back to mx. I tried going back to 2t's but found compared to the newer 4t's the 2 strokers just plain suck. Why anyone would ride one of those vibrating pos is beyond me.
MX Sports Medicine 1/20/2012 12:13pm
1/20/2012 12:13pm
MX558 wrote:
I always raced (for 25 yrs.)2t's until 03 when I got hurt. I went back to RR for a while but still rode mx a little...
I always raced (for 25 yrs.)2t's until 03 when I got hurt. I went back to RR for a while but still rode mx a little. In 09 I came back to mx. I tried going back to 2t's but found compared to the newer 4t's the 2 strokers just plain suck. Why anyone would ride one of those vibrating pos is beyond me.
From a road rider...
Rick_Melon_123 1/20/2012 12:19pm
1/20/2012 12:19pm
THE TWO STROKE IS DEAD! LONG LIVE THE TWO STROKE! I will always own a 2 stroke bike, come hell or high water! Cool
burn1986
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burn1986 1/20/2012 12:53pm
1/20/2012 12:53pm
Rick_Melon_123 wrote:
THE TWO STROKE IS DEAD! LONG LIVE THE TWO STROKE! I will always own a 2 stroke bike, come hell or high water! Cool
So let's crusade for the death of the 2-stroke? Why? Why is it so bad to want the AMA to allow the rule change of 150cc and 300cc 2-stroke in the pro ranks?
ATKpilot99
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ATKpilot99 1/20/2012 2:11pm
1/20/2012 2:11pm
Rick_Melon_123 wrote:
THE TWO STROKE IS DEAD! LONG LIVE THE TWO STROKE! I will always own a 2 stroke bike, come hell or high water! Cool
burn1986 wrote:
So let's crusade for the death of the 2-stroke? Why? Why is it so bad to want the AMA to allow the rule change of 150cc...
So let's crusade for the death of the 2-stroke? Why? Why is it so bad to want the AMA to allow the rule change of 150cc and 300cc 2-stroke in the pro ranks?
It's not bad, but if the riders who actually race professionally don't push for it whats the point. I used to feel more strongly about it, but when I thought more about it the biggest reason was nostalgia, and the sound. Now I really don't care what type of bike the pros race. I'm going to watch no matter what. And it has no effect at all on what I choose to ride.
Charles Bronson 1/20/2012 2:33pm
1/20/2012 2:33pm
Rick_Melon_123 wrote:
THE TWO STROKE IS DEAD! LONG LIVE THE TWO STROKE! I will always own a 2 stroke bike, come hell or high water! Cool
burn1986 wrote:
So let's crusade for the death of the 2-stroke? Why? Why is it so bad to want the AMA to allow the rule change of 150cc...
So let's crusade for the death of the 2-stroke? Why? Why is it so bad to want the AMA to allow the rule change of 150cc and 300cc 2-stroke in the pro ranks?
He was quoting about a half dozen medieval europe flicks. Robin Hood, Kingdom of Heaven, Excalibur...
Charles Bronson 1/20/2012 2:34pm
1/20/2012 2:34pm
MX558 wrote:
I always raced (for 25 yrs.)2t's until 03 when I got hurt. I went back to RR for a while but still rode mx a little...
I always raced (for 25 yrs.)2t's until 03 when I got hurt. I went back to RR for a while but still rode mx a little. In 09 I came back to mx. I tried going back to 2t's but found compared to the newer 4t's the 2 strokers just plain suck. Why anyone would ride one of those vibrating pos is beyond me.
I ride two strokes on the street, too.

why anyone woud be enough of a pussy to not be able to hold on to the bars through a litle vibration is.... well....beyond me.


there are 2 sides to every coin, holmes.
mxking6
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mxking6 1/20/2012 2:37pm
1/20/2012 2:37pm
mxking6 wrote:
There are so many things posted as fact that are pure BS it's funny........ The AMA changed the displacemet rule for the YZ400F .......WRONG 4 strokes...
There are so many things posted as fact that are pure BS it's funny........

The AMA changed the displacemet rule for the YZ400F .......WRONG
4 strokes were forced in for emissions.........not a chance
4-strokes have cleaner emissions......in some ways, not in others
360cc 4-stroke maximum....HAR.....PURE BS try 650cc

Stop it.....you guys are killing me with this BS.......I'm sure glad I stopped back for the entertainment....
Charles Bronson wrote:
the 4 stroke rule in the AMA was 360cc until 4strokes became "exempt" (that was the buzzword) at which point Smail showed up on that 610cc...
the 4 stroke rule in the AMA was 360cc until 4strokes became "exempt" (that was the buzzword) at which point Smail showed up on that 610cc thumper. Remember?.
I got to thinking about it more today.

I was totally thinking about the 500cc class.......that's why I was fighting the 360cc deal.

I WAS WRONG.

As for the firing twice per each complete cycle.........

Pit Row

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bd
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bd 1/20/2012 2:43pm
1/20/2012 2:43pm
I never left the two stroke. I am opening up to the four stroke.

Its hard to compete against a rival who gets subsidized, rent control, cc control etc. AMA Racicing should allow cc racing. I think a 450F vs 450T would be an honest race. Both have pros and cons. Four stroke does not have a 2x disability.
Bret
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Bret 1/20/2012 2:43pm
1/20/2012 2:43pm
The spark plug on a single cylinder four-stroke with a crank sensor sparks each revolution of the crank, once during the compression stroke, and once during the exhaust stroke.

The spark plug on a single cylinder four-stroke with a cam sensor sparks every other revolution of the crank, during the compression stroke.
Rick_Melon_123 1/20/2012 2:53pm
1/20/2012 2:53pm
what im saying is, to hell with everyone, i ride a two smoker and always will, not that im not open to ride my four strokes either, he he its nuts to argue less filling tastes great Wink they both have their own individual applications imo
Barrett57
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Barrett57 1/20/2012 2:53pm
1/20/2012 2:53pm
Charles Bronson wrote:
The problem is not the fun factor, it is the availability. I know for a fact there would be a lot less people bitching if you...
The problem is not the fun factor, it is the availability. I know for a fact there would be a lot less people bitching if you could walk into a yamaha kawasaki suzuki or honda dealer and there was a 2 stroke for every four stroke, and they had the same chassis and suspension development, and the engines werent neglected.

does not matter how fun a two stroke is, at this point we are all riding 7 year old bikes, unless its a ktm. 7 years. had you said people would be racing 7 year old bikes back in 1999, you'd have gotten laughed at.

I want to see this thing with no lights and a 19in rear wheel so badly.
That would be a very cool bike in motocross trim.

To be honest, I switched from a 2011 KTM150 to a 11 RM125 (just a new 05 i think), and I honestly think the RM125 is superior in every way.

Im just pissed off I spent all that money when I could have got a better bike for half the price.
Rick_Melon_123 1/20/2012 2:55pm
1/20/2012 2:55pm
it would be great to see a 2 stroke, 4 stroke, crossbreed hybrid Wink
mxking6
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mxking6 1/20/2012 2:59pm
1/20/2012 2:59pm
Bret wrote:
The spark plug on a single cylinder four-stroke with a crank sensor sparks each revolution of the crank, once during the compression stroke, and once during...
The spark plug on a single cylinder four-stroke with a crank sensor sparks each revolution of the crank, once during the compression stroke, and once during the exhaust stroke.

The spark plug on a single cylinder four-stroke with a cam sensor sparks every other revolution of the crank, during the compression stroke.
Sparks yes.....fires.....NO.
newmann
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newmann 1/20/2012 3:20pm
1/20/2012 3:20pm
MX558 wrote:
I always raced (for 25 yrs.)2t's until 03 when I got hurt. I went back to RR for a while but still rode mx a little...
I always raced (for 25 yrs.)2t's until 03 when I got hurt. I went back to RR for a while but still rode mx a little. In 09 I came back to mx. I tried going back to 2t's but found compared to the newer 4t's the 2 strokers just plain suck. Why anyone would ride one of those vibrating pos is beyond me.
Vibrating POS? LMAO. The modern four stroke vibrates so much it won't even stay together without five pounds of counterbalancers, gears, bearings and other associated parts to attempt to smooth them out. Oh, sorry.....I meant to say five pounds of "mass centralization"!!Laughing Laughing
newmann
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newmann 1/20/2012 3:24pm
1/20/2012 3:24pm
Bret wrote:
The spark plug on a single cylinder four-stroke with a crank sensor sparks each revolution of the crank, once during the compression stroke, and once during...
The spark plug on a single cylinder four-stroke with a crank sensor sparks each revolution of the crank, once during the compression stroke, and once during the exhaust stroke.

The spark plug on a single cylinder four-stroke with a cam sensor sparks every other revolution of the crank, during the compression stroke.
mxking6 wrote:
Sparks yes.....fires.....NO.
I think everybody here understood that he meant sparks, not combusts. I'm sure you did too.Wink

Or did you dad not tell you to check the plug and see if it's "getting fire" when you were a kid? My ass got lit up a time or two.
Rick_Melon_123 1/20/2012 4:08pm
1/20/2012 4:08pm
Rick_Melon_123 wrote:
THE TWO STROKE IS DEAD! LONG LIVE THE TWO STROKE! I will always own a 2 stroke bike, come hell or high water! Cool
burn1986 wrote:
So let's crusade for the death of the 2-stroke? Why? Why is it so bad to want the AMA to allow the rule change of 150cc...
So let's crusade for the death of the 2-stroke? Why? Why is it so bad to want the AMA to allow the rule change of 150cc and 300cc 2-stroke in the pro ranks?
uumm, not really following ya, Wink
bd
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bd 1/20/2012 4:29pm
1/20/2012 4:29pm
Rick_Melon_123 wrote:
THE TWO STROKE IS DEAD! LONG LIVE THE TWO STROKE! I will always own a 2 stroke bike, come hell or high water! Cool
burn1986 wrote:
So let's crusade for the death of the 2-stroke? Why? Why is it so bad to want the AMA to allow the rule change of 150cc...
So let's crusade for the death of the 2-stroke? Why? Why is it so bad to want the AMA to allow the rule change of 150cc and 300cc 2-stroke in the pro ranks?
Rick_Melon_123 wrote:
uumm, not really following ya, Wink
Burn.... I think a 150cc Two Stroke Will get smoked by a PC KX250F. At a min, it should be a 180T vs 250F and 360T vs 450F. Weight adv for T still applies.... F will have torque adv.
Hando
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Hando 1/20/2012 4:35pm
1/20/2012 4:35pm
THE AMA NEEDS TO LET 2-STROKES RUN LEADED GAS..450s Can STAY 450s...THE GAS RULE IS WHAT KILLED 2-STROKES!!!
MX Sports Medicine 1/20/2012 5:46pm
1/20/2012 5:46pm
Author Unknown:

Unfortunately, one of the largest factors in the popularity of the thumpers is more related to the general trend towards obesity in this country.

Why is the four-stroke so popular despite costing more to purchase and maintain ?

The polite term is it makes more "friendly" power. What that translates to is the average Vet and up rider who is carrying EXTRA weight and is out of shape can now go a few more laps than he could on a 250T. Look around the next time you're at a track. Riders now are older and tend to be heavier. A lot heavier. Just part of an unfortunate trend in this and many other countries.

Back a generation ago, those same guys were relegated to the back of the pack on a smoker. Now they can plunk their ass down on a 450 and keep going longer.

The same exact thing occurred in jet skis when they switched from stand-ups to sit-downs.

Do you Moto a Sit-down?

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