Occupy this overentitled brats

wired4speed 11/18/2011 10:19am
11/18/2011 10:19am
jconc1941 wrote:
i beleive there is threats of molotov cocktails being used/made doesnt sound to peacefull [img]https:// fitness/upload/36/c/wink.gif[/img]
i beleive there is threats of molotov cocktails being used/made doesnt sound to peacefull
I watched a news report this morning of a police officer kicking a man in the head about a dozen times. It doesn't mean that all police departments are corrupt. Yesterdays protect for the most part was peaceful. Even the police officers were respectful. Once again, this movement has far more support from a diverse group of people. Many individuals joined the march after they were finished at work. This movement has the support of young, old , educated, unemployed, employed, well paid and those living paycheck to paycheck. If this movement gets momentum in the right direction there will be many politicians and self seerving CEO's flushed out of Washington DC.
Weave
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Weave 11/18/2011 10:34am
11/18/2011 10:34am
What do the income graphs above represent? Yes, there is a disproportionate shift in income, but what does that tell us? Are the wealthy getting wealthier at the expense of the poor, or does it reflect the ever-increasing ability to achieve wealth over the past 30 years?

The positive side of the charts indicate that more people are reaching higher levels of income. It also reflects a growing US population which is heavily sided towards lower-income families. If population growth were linear across income groups the gap would likely be much less dramatic. Even if there were some way to account for "corrupt" income growth, it would have little impact on the overall rate of change. And taxing the wealthly, even at double the current rate, would barely move the needle.
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indy_maico 11/18/2011 10:57am
11/18/2011 10:57am
Weave wrote:
What do the income graphs above represent? Yes, there is a disproportionate shift in income, but what does that tell us? Are the wealthy getting wealthier...
What do the income graphs above represent? Yes, there is a disproportionate shift in income, but what does that tell us? Are the wealthy getting wealthier at the expense of the poor, or does it reflect the ever-increasing ability to achieve wealth over the past 30 years?

The positive side of the charts indicate that more people are reaching higher levels of income. It also reflects a growing US population which is heavily sided towards lower-income families. If population growth were linear across income groups the gap would likely be much less dramatic. Even if there were some way to account for "corrupt" income growth, it would have little impact on the overall rate of change. And taxing the wealthly, even at double the current rate, would barely move the needle.
Indeed, since Republicans began their tax-cut binge in 1997, they have succeeded in making the rich much richer. While the average income for the bottom 90 percent of taxpayers has remained basically flat over the past 15 years, those in the top 0.01 percent have seen their incomes more than double, to $36 million a year. Translated into wages, that means most Americans have received a raise of $1.50 an hour since the GOP began cutting taxes during the Gingrich era. The most elite sliver of American society, meanwhile, saw their pay soar by $10,000 an hour.

America became a great nation with a prosperous middle class on the strength of a progressive tax code – one that demands the most of those who benefit most from our society. But the Party of the Rich has succeeded in breaking the back of that ideal. Today, says Johnston, "the tax system ceases to be progressive when you get to the very top of the wealthiest one percent." Above that marker, the richer you get, the lower your relative tax burden. "We have moved toward a plutocracy," Warren Buffett warned in a recent interview. "As people have gotten richer and richer, they have been favored by taxation – and have gotten richer to a greater degree."

Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/how-the-gop-became-the-party-…
Weave
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Weave 11/18/2011 11:55am
11/18/2011 11:55am
Unfortunately, taxing the wealthiest 1% solves very little. In fact, if the top earners contributed 100% of their income to taxes, we would still have an unmanagable burden on the US government. In a nutshell, the Fed will continue to spend itself into oblivion. Attacking the tax structure is like trying to control a rattlesnake by grabbing its tail: you're going after the wrong end of the problem.

As in any situation, people will gravitate towards that thing which generates the greatest benefit. The GOP policies favor income earners/wealth creators, while the Democrats cater the lower & middle classes. Because we live in a capitalistic society, no single political party can represent both ends of the spectrum.

However, the wealthy are being made out as the "bad guys", accused by those who lack wealth. Are the top income earners really to blame for the current crisis? Yes, Wall Street had its factions that temporarily destroyed a tremendous amount of value, but the argument to "tax everyone who makes over $X annually" asks us to indiscrimantely penalize anyone who falls into an arbitrarily defined value.

The tax code needs reforming, but it's not the answer to the problem. It's a band-aid on the Titanic.

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Hut
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Hut 11/18/2011 12:39pm
11/18/2011 12:39pm
Looking at those two graphs tell me; maybe Ross Perot was onto something when he said,
“NAFTA will cause a giant sucking sound as jobs go south. ”
although that was just the beginning...
I was not a Perot supporter at the time but if you look back now at what he said then, it seems he was spot on.
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Mr. G 11/18/2011 5:57pm
11/18/2011 5:57pm
Mr. G wrote:
These people are not even smart enough to know who to complain to. I hope they keep it up, it helps the Republicans as more and...
These people are not even smart enough to know who to complain to. I hope they keep it up, it helps the Republicans as more and more people turn against the OWS people. The original beef which was legitimate but ill aimed and it just shows where they are coming from.
wired4speed wrote:
The OWS movement isn't Republican or Democratic. In fact, yesterday's protest was for the most part peaceful. Sometimes you have to take everything into consideration when...
The OWS movement isn't Republican or Democratic. In fact, yesterday's protest was for the most part peaceful. Sometimes you have to take everything into consideration when you're getting information from the news media. It's their job to capture the right angles of a scene and decide whether to use a close up angle or draw back the camera. You can manipulate public opinion in many ways. Especially, if it sells. For the most part, the OWS march was peaceful and that doesn't make good interesting news to report.
Are they not demanding more big government to bail them out of their lives? What party do you think that is? It is sad to see another human being put their own lot in life in the hands of another who by their own description is less than desirable but who is then demanded retribution.
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jmar 11/18/2011 9:58pm
11/18/2011 9:58pm
Hut wrote:
Lobbying Firm Memo To Advise Wall Street Clients On Occupy Movement
How long 'til they turn a private "security service" loose undercover to start a riot?
None of this surprises me at all. I am sure that there are a lot of emails that could tell the truth about the concern of OWS.

My guess is that some how (I have no idea how) they are responsible for turning OWS into the mess it is today. Lot's of power in money, and these ass clowns have lot's of our money to play with.
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FastEddy 11/19/2011 6:02am
11/19/2011 6:02am Edited Date/Time 11/19/2011 6:03am
Hut wrote:
Lobbying Firm Memo To Advise Wall Street Clients On Occupy Movement
How long 'til they turn a private "security service" loose undercover to start a riot?
Thursday's holiday with the yearly Macy's parade & parades in other cities would be an ideal time.
Lot's of eye balls glued to TV's normally on this holiday.
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jmar 11/19/2011 6:40am
11/19/2011 6:40am
Weave wrote:
Unfortunately, taxing the wealthiest 1% solves very little. In fact, if the top earners contributed 100% of their income to taxes, we would still have an...
Unfortunately, taxing the wealthiest 1% solves very little. In fact, if the top earners contributed 100% of their income to taxes, we would still have an unmanagable burden on the US government. In a nutshell, the Fed will continue to spend itself into oblivion. Attacking the tax structure is like trying to control a rattlesnake by grabbing its tail: you're going after the wrong end of the problem.

As in any situation, people will gravitate towards that thing which generates the greatest benefit. The GOP policies favor income earners/wealth creators, while the Democrats cater the lower & middle classes. Because we live in a capitalistic society, no single political party can represent both ends of the spectrum.

However, the wealthy are being made out as the "bad guys", accused by those who lack wealth. Are the top income earners really to blame for the current crisis? Yes, Wall Street had its factions that temporarily destroyed a tremendous amount of value, but the argument to "tax everyone who makes over $X annually" asks us to indiscrimantely penalize anyone who falls into an arbitrarily defined value.

The tax code needs reforming, but it's not the answer to the problem. It's a band-aid on the Titanic.
The tax code needs reforming, but it's not the answer to the problem. It's a band-aid on the Titanic.

I agree

The only thing that can fix this problem is to gut our existing broken political system and start with new players, and new rules. As of today, our existing system is being controlled by large corporate interest, and wall street. New regulation is nothing more than watered down lip service, and it's time to slowly unwind the mess we have created, and get back to manufacturing and service. It's going to take a lot of work to accomplish this, but it can be done.

We need to get back to main street.
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RocketLab 11/19/2011 9:28am
11/19/2011 9:28am
Mr. G wrote:
These people are not even smart enough to know who to complain to. I hope they keep it up, it helps the Republicans as more and...
These people are not even smart enough to know who to complain to. I hope they keep it up, it helps the Republicans as more and more people turn against the OWS people. The original beef which was legitimate but ill aimed and it just shows where they are coming from.
wired4speed wrote:
The OWS movement isn't Republican or Democratic. In fact, yesterday's protest was for the most part peaceful. Sometimes you have to take everything into consideration when...
The OWS movement isn't Republican or Democratic. In fact, yesterday's protest was for the most part peaceful. Sometimes you have to take everything into consideration when you're getting information from the news media. It's their job to capture the right angles of a scene and decide whether to use a close up angle or draw back the camera. You can manipulate public opinion in many ways. Especially, if it sells. For the most part, the OWS march was peaceful and that doesn't make good interesting news to report.
Mr. G wrote:
Are they not demanding more big government to bail them out of their lives? What party do you think that is? It is sad to see...
Are they not demanding more big government to bail them out of their lives? What party do you think that is? It is sad to see another human being put their own lot in life in the hands of another who by their own description is less than desirable but who is then demanded retribution.
If you actually understood what this was all about you might be inclined to not be so against it.
wired4speed 11/19/2011 9:31am
11/19/2011 9:31am
Mr. G wrote:
These people are not even smart enough to know who to complain to. I hope they keep it up, it helps the Republicans as more and...
These people are not even smart enough to know who to complain to. I hope they keep it up, it helps the Republicans as more and more people turn against the OWS people. The original beef which was legitimate but ill aimed and it just shows where they are coming from.
wired4speed wrote:
The OWS movement isn't Republican or Democratic. In fact, yesterday's protest was for the most part peaceful. Sometimes you have to take everything into consideration when...
The OWS movement isn't Republican or Democratic. In fact, yesterday's protest was for the most part peaceful. Sometimes you have to take everything into consideration when you're getting information from the news media. It's their job to capture the right angles of a scene and decide whether to use a close up angle or draw back the camera. You can manipulate public opinion in many ways. Especially, if it sells. For the most part, the OWS march was peaceful and that doesn't make good interesting news to report.
Mr. G wrote:
Are they not demanding more big government to bail them out of their lives? What party do you think that is? It is sad to see...
Are they not demanding more big government to bail them out of their lives? What party do you think that is? It is sad to see another human being put their own lot in life in the hands of another who by their own description is less than desirable but who is then demanded retribution.
How about demanding a fair government. Our politicians are feeding this movement. Stories about Newt Gingrich and Nancy Pelossi are only fueling it more. These two politicians packaged themselves as representatives of the conservatives and the liberals. I have no problem with the current and former Speaker of the House profiting from their elected positions. After all , that's how it's done in Washington DC.
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RocketLab 11/19/2011 9:34am
11/19/2011 9:34am
And for those saying they don't like what OWS has turned into, the same kind of people using the same tactics brought a stop to the Vietnam war.
leakypipe23 11/19/2011 9:38am
11/19/2011 9:38am
Overthrow the government? These people complain when police tell ten to move somewhere else.
FastEddy
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FastEddy 11/19/2011 10:02am
11/19/2011 10:02am
wired4speed wrote:
The OWS movement isn't Republican or Democratic. In fact, yesterday's protest was for the most part peaceful. Sometimes you have to take everything into consideration when...
The OWS movement isn't Republican or Democratic. In fact, yesterday's protest was for the most part peaceful. Sometimes you have to take everything into consideration when you're getting information from the news media. It's their job to capture the right angles of a scene and decide whether to use a close up angle or draw back the camera. You can manipulate public opinion in many ways. Especially, if it sells. For the most part, the OWS march was peaceful and that doesn't make good interesting news to report.
Mr. G wrote:
Are they not demanding more big government to bail them out of their lives? What party do you think that is? It is sad to see...
Are they not demanding more big government to bail them out of their lives? What party do you think that is? It is sad to see another human being put their own lot in life in the hands of another who by their own description is less than desirable but who is then demanded retribution.
RocketLab wrote:
If you actually understood what this was all about you might be inclined to not be so against it.
I was watching one of their meetings last night....I liked how a guy referred to this as a Global Awakening for many issues & causes.

Was also cool the other night to see Medical Doctors & Heart Surgeons etc...take to the streets with their beefs/concerns.
FastEddy
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FastEddy 11/19/2011 10:28am
11/19/2011 10:28am Edited Date/Time 11/19/2011 10:57am
That piece of paper means nothing if people are not willing to stand up and fight ,defend & die for it and not expect to be paid for doing so.In today's day & age people have become money hungry & sissified and they really dont care until something effects their immediate life.I know it is hard for some to believe but there was actually a time in this country and on this earth in general when people were actually noble and picked up arms and went to war and fought & died for only their beliefs and not because it was their job/career choice they had chosen.But those days are long gone.
So this is what we have. lol Smile
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eddie 11/19/2011 6:16pm
11/19/2011 6:16pm
leakypipe23 wrote:
Overthrow the government? These people complain when police tell ten to move somewhere else.
are you sure about that ? you better have a look at these videos .....



"Police used batons to try to push the students apart. Those they could separate, they arrested, kneeling on their bodies and pushing their heads into the ground. Those they could not separate, they pepper-sprayed directly in the face, holding these students as they did so. When students covered their eyes with their clothing, police forced open their mouths and pepper-sprayed down their throats. Several of these students were hospitalized. Others are seriously injured. One of them, forty-five minutes after being pepper-sprayed down his throat, was still coughing up blood"


http://dissenter.firedoglake.com/2011/11/19/uc-davis-chancellor-called-…

to me it looks like 'those people' held their ground . they are out there taking on the government .... while your fat ass continues to do nothing but occupy your couch where you DO NOTHING BUT COMPLAIN ON THE INTERNET .


it is interesting that rightwingers , like you leakypipe , are constantly doing a lot of tough talking about the evils of big government on this site . but when someone actually stands up to corrupt authorities .... you side with the government . i think that makes most of the republican nutsuckers ..... gutless hypocrits . you are all talk .... if a cop told you to bend over ... you would be dropping your drawers in an instant .
lumpy790
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lumpy790 11/19/2011 6:41pm
11/19/2011 6:41pm
Was listening to a talk show kook asking why hadnt the FBI infiltrated the Occupiers before all of this happened.... he went as far as calling them terrorists.

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FastEddy
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FastEddy 11/19/2011 7:09pm
11/19/2011 7:09pm Edited Date/Time 11/19/2011 7:21pm
lumpy790 wrote:
Was listening to a talk show kook asking why hadnt the FBI infiltrated the Occupiers before all of this happened.... he went as far as calling...
Was listening to a talk show kook asking why hadnt the FBI infiltrated the Occupiers before all of this happened.... he went as far as calling them terrorists.
Officers from NYPD counter terrorism task force were present last Thursday
out in front of the stock exchange checking ID's & credentials of those who wanted to pass on the sidewalk.

DHS(Department of Homeland Security) vehicles & agents have also been present in NYC & other cities.
It's funny that DHS denies any role in this but during the eviction of that park in NY Sunday night
they were on the NYPD SO frequency talking about coordinating with DHS about shutting down air space to the media
through the FAA at the park and jamming cel phone signals of the media & civilians in the area before the raid...
DHS is probably who coordinated the simultaneous national raids that we have seen in cities over the past week or so.

Here are photos of a DHS vehicle in Portland last week & a protester being arrested,that a journalist was able to snap.



But when the media contacted DHS....they claimed to play no role in any of this. lol
jmar
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jmar 11/19/2011 7:55pm
11/19/2011 7:55pm
lumpy790 wrote:
Was listening to a talk show kook asking why hadnt the FBI infiltrated the Occupiers before all of this happened.... he went as far as calling...
Was listening to a talk show kook asking why hadnt the FBI infiltrated the Occupiers before all of this happened.... he went as far as calling them terrorists.
FastEddy wrote:
Officers from NYPD counter terrorism task force were present last Thursday out in front of the stock exchange checking ID's & credentials of those who wanted...
Officers from NYPD counter terrorism task force were present last Thursday
out in front of the stock exchange checking ID's & credentials of those who wanted to pass on the sidewalk.

DHS(Department of Homeland Security) vehicles & agents have also been present in NYC & other cities.
It's funny that DHS denies any role in this but during the eviction of that park in NY Sunday night
they were on the NYPD SO frequency talking about coordinating with DHS about shutting down air space to the media
through the FAA at the park and jamming cel phone signals of the media & civilians in the area before the raid...
DHS is probably who coordinated the simultaneous national raids that we have seen in cities over the past week or so.

Here are photos of a DHS vehicle in Portland last week & a protester being arrested,that a journalist was able to snap.



But when the media contacted DHS....they claimed to play no role in any of this. lol
That's total bull shit. Homeland Security needs to stay the fuck out of this.
jmar
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jmar 11/19/2011 7:58pm
11/19/2011 7:58pm
lumpy790 wrote:
Was listening to a talk show kook asking why hadnt the FBI infiltrated the Occupiers before all of this happened.... he went as far as calling...
Was listening to a talk show kook asking why hadnt the FBI infiltrated the Occupiers before all of this happened.... he went as far as calling them terrorists.
The terrorist are on capital hill and wall street.
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Spahnzuki 11/19/2011 8:13pm
11/19/2011 8:13pm Edited Date/Time 11/19/2011 8:14pm
lumpy790 wrote:
Was listening to a talk show kook asking why hadnt the FBI infiltrated the Occupiers before all of this happened.... he went as far as calling...
Was listening to a talk show kook asking why hadnt the FBI infiltrated the Occupiers before all of this happened.... he went as far as calling them terrorists.
jmar wrote:
The terrorist are on capital hill and wall street.
I completely agree with this. They are also in the unions. And the mosques...
Mr. G
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Mr. G 11/19/2011 9:22pm
11/19/2011 9:22pm
wired4speed wrote:
How about demanding a fair government. Our politicians are feeding this movement. Stories about Newt Gingrich and Nancy Pelossi are only fueling it more. These two...
How about demanding a fair government. Our politicians are feeding this movement. Stories about Newt Gingrich and Nancy Pelossi are only fueling it more. These two politicians packaged themselves as representatives of the conservatives and the liberals. I have no problem with the current and former Speaker of the House profiting from their elected positions. After all , that's how it's done in Washington DC.
Nothing wrong with demanding a fair government in fact that is an honorable goal. One problem, one must complain to those that not only are willing but able to change it. This is why this movement is without merit, they don't even know where to go. Now they are either unintelligent or they don't want to make "the changer" look bad as this "changer" is in the process of bringing in big government that will "take care" of them but will eventually be their demise.
jmar
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jmar 11/19/2011 9:30pm
11/19/2011 9:30pm
wired4speed wrote:
How about demanding a fair government. Our politicians are feeding this movement. Stories about Newt Gingrich and Nancy Pelossi are only fueling it more. These two...
How about demanding a fair government. Our politicians are feeding this movement. Stories about Newt Gingrich and Nancy Pelossi are only fueling it more. These two politicians packaged themselves as representatives of the conservatives and the liberals. I have no problem with the current and former Speaker of the House profiting from their elected positions. After all , that's how it's done in Washington DC.
Mr. G wrote:
Nothing wrong with demanding a fair government in fact that is an honorable goal. One problem, one must complain to those that not only are willing...
Nothing wrong with demanding a fair government in fact that is an honorable goal. One problem, one must complain to those that not only are willing but able to change it. This is why this movement is without merit, they don't even know where to go. Now they are either unintelligent or they don't want to make "the changer" look bad as this "changer" is in the process of bringing in big government that will "take care" of them but will eventually be their demise.
Your existing government is going to be our demised. And yes, that goes for both the democrats and the republicans. Both have sold out to those who are filling their coffers.
Moto East Mag 11/20/2011 10:31am
11/20/2011 10:31am
This pic pretty much shows where we are with this whole situation. The police chief referred to the actions of the people being sprayed like cockroaches as "violence." Seriously.

FastEddy
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FastEddy 11/20/2011 10:38am
11/20/2011 10:38am Edited Date/Time 11/20/2011 10:54am
Moto East Mag wrote:
This pic pretty much shows where we are with this whole situation. The police chief referred to the actions of the people being sprayed like cockroaches...
This pic pretty much shows where we are with this whole situation. The police chief referred to the actions of the people being sprayed like cockroaches as "violence." Seriously.

Here is the video of it.
They were kids just sitting there.....not necessarily hurting anything or anyone and it didn't seem that they posed any threat.
I believe they were on their own school campus also.
Look at how they approach the kids after they sprayed them....with clubs raised and nonlethal weapons like they were in
some sort of a tactical situation.I didn't seen anyone (the kids/protesters) make or attempt any physical signs of aggression toward anyone either.
Maybe just resisting....

https://youtu.be/6AdDLhPwpp4


I just wonder why these protests in particular are causing so many agencies to become upset and act out with great overkill & force.When peaceful Anti-war ,Anti Nuke,Anti Abortion,Anti Death Penalty etc...protests in public & school campuses etc...never have really had this many agencies upset over the last 15-20 years or so.
My only guess would be they are being forced to get rid of these people from someone at the top of the pyramid.
Or they do not want it to grow into something huge that might jeopardize their spot on the pyramid.
Moto East Mag 11/20/2011 10:53am
11/20/2011 10:53am Edited Date/Time 11/20/2011 10:55am
It's really sickening to hear the police chief defending these actions. She claims the officers were "trapped." I guess she didn't notice that the guy had to leave the circle in order to spray them.

I believe that police have been systematically militarized in recent years, especially through federal stimulus. It wasn't really apparent until there were some demonstrations etc. There was some outcry here in Virginia when a local police force procured a freaking tank for domestic situations etc. A lot of people were questioning why local cops would need a tank.
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FastEddy 11/20/2011 11:02am
11/20/2011 11:02am Edited Date/Time 11/20/2011 11:05am
Moto East Mag wrote:
It's really sickening to hear the police chief defending these actions. She claims the officers were "trapped." I guess she didn't notice that the guy had...
It's really sickening to hear the police chief defending these actions. She claims the officers were "trapped." I guess she didn't notice that the guy had to leave the circle in order to spray them.

I believe that police have been systematically militarized in recent years, especially through federal stimulus. It wasn't really apparent until there were some demonstrations etc. There was some outcry here in Virginia when a local police force procured a freaking tank for domestic situations etc. A lot of people were questioning why local cops would need a tank.
There is supposed to be some type of investigation going on regarding the spraying of those kids.
Hopefully something gets done about it.

And yeah...armored type tank vehicles have become very popular with local police agencies.
Federal Police agencies used them in Waco & also Ruby Ridge back in the 90's when they killed all those people.

These are what they roll out with down here in Tampa.
Pretty crazy. Rescue lol...looks more like armed assault.
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FastEddy 11/20/2011 11:22am
11/20/2011 11:22am Edited Date/Time 11/20/2011 11:23am
I think their Special Weapons & Tactics Team uses them for Tactical situations & hostage rescues ect...
It's pretty intimidating/crazy looking though for a personnel carrier/rescue vehicle. Smile
Wouldn't want to see it roll up on my lawn. Grinning
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FastEddy 11/20/2011 12:25pm
11/20/2011 12:25pm Edited Date/Time 11/20/2011 12:31pm
Get this....
Some protesters were going to go near Bloombergs house to protest.
The police got word and blocked off the streets & public sidewalks in the area around Bloombergs house.
A woman from the mayors office just basically said on the Live Stream that
the public areas around the Mayors house/dwelling are not a free speech zone.
That the areas were closed for the public's/protesters safety.

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